Fun and Frolic With Long-Term Love

Part 2 Continued

WarMan has said he wants a long term, permanent relationship. When he popped back up on OKC, I told him that I was wanting a FWB and an activities partner, and that I would consider a boyfriend/girlfriend label. I never thought I would be involved with someone that wanted a position as a primary. PunkRock said that he thinks I was a bit dishonest with myself about my abilities to actually HAVE a FWB sort of relationship. I told him I didn't think that was the case - I had what I felt was a very positive arrangement with B, way back when. HOWEVER, that was so very different in that B didn't come at me with the need for a long term relationship - he was a workaholic and what we had was satisfactory to both of us. In this situation now, WarMan quickly decided he wanted to be with me on a much deeper level.

PunkRock said he believes that WarMan doesn't respect boundaries, and that he is weaseling his way in to my life. I was like, wow, weasel is a very negative word, and he said, "Yeah, I know. I meant it to be." In his opinion, someone who doesn't meet your needs in a relationship, yet keeps you feeling trapped in it is at fault, and someone who tries to take more than you are willing to give in a relationship is just as bad. I never looked at this sort of thing before. In my own experience, when someone asks me for more, I try to accommodate. He told me to think of it as if I absolutely needed 6 donuts, but that someone would only continually offer me 4. It wouldn't be enough, and I would probably end the relationship eventually. But what if I had 6 donuts, and someone was always pressuring me to give them 8. I'd be stressed and unhappy, and I should end the relationship.

Epiphany for me. I would instead try to work out ways to make 6 enough. Absolutely, that is what I would do. PunkRock said he would make a different choice, and that's where he and I differ. He said that if he were looking to date someone in the future, he'd probably only be looking for fun and casual, and NOT another primary. And if they tried to escalate, he'd be finished with them. I told him I don't operate that way, obviously.

It was a lot to take in, because I had never framed anything like that in my mind before.

THAT said, I told him I don't believe this is the case with WarMan. When he said he wanted a long term permanent relationship, I was also overwhelmed by my feelings for him, and felt the drive to make this a deeper relationship too. Hell, I was the one to ask him if he wanted to be my boyfriend! I don't feel like he is asking for 8 donuts and I only have 6. I feel like he asked if he could have more of the 6 than I had previously offered, and I said yes. This isn't weaseling, this is a conversation.

PunkRock said he didn't know about how I had phrased my boundaries initially, and that he thought I had drawn a really firm line in the sand. I told him that no, it was wavy and not clear at all, and now I am struggling because of that. He said that he does not feel like he has had his donuts taken away, that I am still sharing just as many with him, and that he would absolutely let me know if anything was lacking. I told him what I think he is noticing lately is that maybe I am not home when he gets off of work, and previously, if it wasn't his sleepover time with me, if I were with DarkKnight, he would still at least see me and kiss me goodnight. If I am at WarMan's house, he misses that interaction. He agreed.

It was a very emotional conversation, but I felt it ended on a positive note. I felt heard, and he received information, and I absolutely got a brand new perspective on how to view relationships.

I was worried for a little bit about if this meant that he views WarMan as someone who is trying to steal all of my donuts. I don't think so, now that we have had this talk. I think instead now he sees that though I put the donuts all up on a tray, I pulled it down and offered more, when WarMan expressed an interest. Maybe I shouldn't have done that. Maybe I should have been firm and kept the donuts in an unreachable position. I don't think so though. I didn't put them on special, or mark them down at a discount. I offered them, and I am still ok with having done that. There is still a chocolate sprinkle one for PunkRock, and a peanut butter filled for DarkKnight. Even if the tray is shifting at the moment, I have a good grip on it.

I feel good about breakfast.
 
Omg. Now you're making me hungry for donuts, lol ;) I think you're doing really well, too. And, I think when the NRE (on both your and WarMan's side) winds down, it won't feel so overwhelming. Things will shake out just the way they're meant to :)
 
Love the donut analogy! To take it even further, I think that WarMan's past relationships were like being on a fast, or an extremely low calorie diet, and now he's got this incredible plate of tasty donuts in front of him - so he wants them all! He has been like a starving man and is just so eager for whatever donuts you offer, that it might seem to PunkRock that he's asking for too many, like "okay, I'll take the tray AND all the donuts in the kitchen, too!"

Like he told you, WarMan hasn't had much luck in his love relationships and is now so grateful and happy to have met you, but perhaps he also has to be careful not to rely too much on this budding new relationship with you to fill a hole inside him that's been empty for a long time. He might have co-dependent tendencies, I wonder. Maybe that's what PunkRock is picking up on? That's not something to be afraid of, if that's the case, just something to be aware of - and something where you probably should look at whether or not you're adjusting your boundaries out of a true desire on your part or from trying to accommodate some unconscious manipulation on WarMan's part.
 
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PinkPig - I hope so! I am thinking you are correct. I also want donuts. lol

NYCIndie - I think co-dependency may be an issue for WarMan. It doesn't scare me, because I believe I do a good job at not allowing it to happen in my relationships. Lack of it definitely may leave him floundering long-term however, so it will be something I am alerted to and aware of.

Right now I would say I am willing to expand my boundaries out of a true desire for that level of intimacy. NRE might be coloring that, though. I am willing to admit that. At the moment I am not wanting to pull back at all, and since usually my NRE doesn't decrease, I would say this is where I am at. I want him in my life, a lot.
 
Hey folks. Warman here.

I've been reading these silently now for a while, but felt compelled to chime in here.

When Bluebird and I first started dating, I too was open to anything, FWB, buddies, occasional fuck friends, whatever. After seeing her a bit, I was asked what I wanted. I responded honestly, that I thought she was amazing, and that I wanted to date her seriously. As she stated, she asked me if I'd like to be her boyfriend. I never pushed that, and was VERY surprised when she asked, but as she IS wonderful, I did accept it.

I love Bluebird. That email of mine she posted? I meant every word of it. She's seriously amazing. I wish everyone could date someone like her. The world would be a better place for it.

That being said, despite Bluebird stating numerous times that he's OK with me, it seems like PunkRock really isn't OK with me. I don't think it's really about me personally, instead I think it's about "new boyfriend" as a concept. Of course, that doesn't really change things, as far as the difficulties that it creates. I should say that I totally understand his perspective, and if I were him, I might feel the same way and have the same concerns. I don't hold any animosity towards him for feeling like he does. It worries me, that her husband is so concerned about my presence however. It causes and uneasy feeling for everyone. It's been several times now that I've heard that THIS was the talk that got it all worked out and he's OK with me now. It's going to take a while before I believe that. Until then I'll feel uncomfortable and uneasy. It's going to take time.

This whole thing isn't easy, on anyone's side, but I love Bluebird, and from my perspective, she's worth the struggle. It's a serious shit-ton of work just to schedule time for us all. I frankly don't know how she does it, and it worries me how much work it is. I worry that I'm bringing more stress into Bluebird's life than happiness. That being said, I have offered to let her have space for a while if she needs it, and to wait here for her if that helps, and if it's what she wants. If she and PunkRock need time to talk and work it out, I'm willing to step away for a while. She's thus far said that she doesn't want/need that. Hell, I'm willing to step away permanently, if that is what she needs, though it would break my heart. I'm even willing to try to pull it back to just FWB, if that's what she needs, though that might be hardest of all, because I really do love her.

The last thing that I want is to bring unhappiness or discord to Bluebird's lovely family. I'm sorry you've had so much stress lately Bluebird, and I'm sorry for my part in it. If I can do anything to help, please just let me know offline.

P.S. NYCIndie, I really appreciate your comments. You're very insightful.
 
This is probably for both Bluebird and Warman, but sometimes people just worry even if they really know that things will be fine. Punkrock might just need to take time to re-adjust to the new norm and realize that having WarMan in the equation really isn't going to upend his entire world. My b/f shows a little concern now that I've been going out on dates and such again (ended the relationship with my second so now I'm dating again). He doesn't really talk much about being worried, so I only really know when I prod it out of him, but he also knows that in reality, things are fine and it's just an emotional reaction that he needs to get through. He knows he still sees me just as often and that I'm not cancelling plans with him to date others and that I have no interest in replacing him or even making him secondary or finding a co-primary. He just worries. Hell, he's even admitted that he worries more when I date than he does when his wife goes on dates with new people. He can't really explain it.

It's awesome that you guys all communicate so openly and regularly and also take each others' feeling into consideration. But also just keep in mind that sometime feelings just need to be felt so that they can be gotten over and realized that everything really is ok! Hang in there guys!!

As a side note, this is just sort of one perspective. Certainly not meant to trivialize Punkrock's feelings since they're legit. Only pointing out that it might not be something that actually requires "action" to reach a "solution."
 
Hey WarMan, welcome! It's good to hear from you. I liked your post, and appreciate your candor. You're not trying to sweep stuff under the rug, but you're not trying to be a wet blanket either. I'm thinking PR and DK maybe see you as an unknown quantity, and that makes them nervous, but I'm hopeful that will improve over time. They're good guys.

Anyway, thanks for chiming in, I'm glad to hear things from your point of view.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
kdt26417 said:
I'm thinking PR and DK maybe see you as an unknown quantity, and that makes them nervous, but I'm hopeful that will improve over time. They're good guys.
Kevin T.
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I absolutely agree. They are great guys, and Bluebird is precious to both of them. I don't blame them a bit for feeling like they do, even if it makes me uncomfortable.

I don't want to make a regular habit of posting here, this is Bluebirds space. Just felt like I needed to speak up here. All the same, thank you for the welcome.
 
It's been several times now that I've heard that THIS was the talk that got it all worked out and he's OK with me now.
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It probably won't be the last talk. It's definitely a process. Each discussion brings up new concerns, new issues. Poly is all about communication. A lot of the issues that PunkRock has wanted to talk about are perfectly normal in this situation. However, unfortunately, a lot of them have been exacerbated because of my own failings at sharing complete information. I kind of suck.

WarMan and I have talked in person and online over messenger, and as I have said, it isn't personal. PunkRock has said that multiple times, and I absolutely believe him. He doesn't hesitate to ever tell me when he thinks someone sucks. :) DarkKnight thinks WarMan is awesome, but he has had the opportunity to go through this process multiple times and has a pretty good sense of who is good for me and who isn't. :) Anyway, it absolutely isn't a personal issue.

I'm sorry you've had so much stress lately Bluebird, and I'm sorry for my part in it.
Click to expand...

Stop being silly. <3
 
WarMan said:
I absolutely agree. They are great guys, and Bluebird is precious to both of them. I don't blame them a bit for feeling like they do, even if it makes me uncomfortable.

I don't want to make a regular habit of posting here, this is Bluebirds space. Just felt like I needed to speak up here. All the same, thank you for the welcome.
Click to expand...


Maybe start your own blog, we could always use more male perspectives 😀
 
I've encouraged him to do so - and to post in the other sections of the site. All my guys lurk, but none post! :) Honestly, DarkKnight hasn't read anything within 6 months or so - he says - but PunkRock goes in spurts. Sometimes he reads everyday, other times he'll go months. WarMan, right now, seems to be obsessing, and I've told him it's a place where I dump a lot, and to not stress. Anything I feel is an issue, we'll discuss in person. :)
 
To me, it seems like what PunkRock is dealing with emotionally isn't much different from what a kid goes through when they get a new sibling. Am I still loved? Do I still have the same place in the family? Is he better than me? Am I going to get enough attention? etc. (Not saying that's what PunkRock is thinking, just rolling with the comparison to a kid getting a new sibling...)

That isn't a personal thing against anyone; it's just a fear of not having a place anymore now that there's a new person involved. Even if PunkRock intellectually knows that not much will change between him and BlueBird, that doesn't mean his emotions are keeping up with his intellect.

And BlueBird, it's cool that your guys check out the forum and there's willingness on your side and theirs for them to read whatever. I've yet to find a guy who's willing to even let me give him the site name...and when I suggested at one point that S2 join to get perspectives from mono folk dating poly folk, I had to ask that he stay away from my blog thread. (He refused to join the site at all, or even visit it once a few months later when I wanted him to read a specific thread, because he said he wanted me to see this as a safe space where I didn't have to worry about him seeing something I didn't want him to see.)
 
Bluebird, sounds like me and you are kinda in a similar situation. I have recently started dating Jeremy, and my mono live-in partner Mark is having trouble accepting the new situation. My poly husband CJ has no worries, he has seen this so many times before (and he is busy dating himself).

I have taken the stance that I need to keep giving Mark enough attention and he'll be fine. It will take time. Only time and experience will tell him that he still is as important to me as before, even with a new and shiny relationship in the picture.

WarMan, nice to have you on these Forums and thanks for starting your own blog thread!
 
I am in a similar situation too but Murf has told me from day one that he in no certain terms will not stay in our relationship if I date others. (Not that I want to anyway)

He came into this relationship knowing Butch's importance to me was apart of being in a relationship with me. But his boundary is no new partners it is a solid boundary for him.

What will you do if Punkrock decides that is his boundary?
 
PunkRock has never given me a rule like that. He did, in February, ask me to take a break from new partners, though. I definitely don't feel he would be apt to shut down a relationship already in progress.

In any case, I would be willing to listen and hear what he had to say. I don't believe he would try to tether me capriciously. I absolutely believe he loves me and would not quick-jump to shut down any connection unless it was detrimental to me.

He will not have to give me an ultimatum here. I will not be dating anyone in addition to WarMan. I have no idea how people function with multiple primaries and stay sane. I feel I am doing an adequate job, but it is definitely not effortless!
 
This is totally off topic, Bluebird. And, totally just to sate my curiosity, so obviously, feel free not to answer if you prefer :) But, you've mentioned sleepovers... Is it ever disconcerting sleeping in a different bed each night? Or, do you adjust quickly? I'm freaky about my sleep and it usually takes me a couple consecutive nights to adjust to a new bed and sleep well...took me months to get use to Blue's bed, lol.
 
Usually, the guys sleep with me. I have the master suite in the house and have a King mattress less than a year old. DarkKnight has a twin in his room, so I couldn't sleep there. :) That said, the central air in our house doesn't push upstairs as well, so sometimes in the summer I do migrate down to PunkRock's room in the basement. He has a queen size memory foam mattress and I've learned to tolerate it. Certainly, it isn't my favorite. Plus he comes with a personal alarm clock - his cat Stormy wakes us every morning at 5 am for treats. So, having the guys swap out to my room each night makes the most sense to me. :)

Sleepovers at WarMan's place have suddenly gotten much better - he bought a new Queen size pillowtop this past week, and I actually like it.
 
I came home from WarMan's house yesterday around 12:30 pm and PunkRock was a wreck. I walked into his bedroom and he told me that he had a bad night. Then he gave me a hug and just started crying! He asked me to "please just tell me that we are going to be ok." I dropped my plans for the next hour and just held him close and petted his hair while we snuggled.

He told me that while I was gone the other night his mind was just all jumbled up with things he wanted to say to me, fears he had and anger. Lots of confusion. At one point he said he actually made himself a mixed drink and stood looking at it for a while before pouring it down the sink. He's been in recovery for years and years so I was HORRIFIED when he shared this. I was super glad he didn't drink and he said he was as well. He promised if he ever got that bad again, that he would call me.

He cried for a bit and then told me that he loves me so much, and doesn't want to lose me, that being with me is all he has ever wanted and he will do anything to stay with me - I am worth it. I told him I feel the same, and that we aren't splitting up. ((Hugs))

One thing he said multiple times, was that he doesn't harbor any anger or ill-will toward WarMan, and that he doesn't feel there is any way for me to help him through things. He said everything is ok in his brain, but that his heart is what is having trouble handling the situation. He said I am doing everything right, listening to him and giving him all the reassurances. It is just a process. He said he just let his mind go to bad places and it was awful. :(

Afterward, he fell asleep, exhausted after our talk.

So yeah, that happened. At no point did it sound like he was going to give me an ultimatum - he didn't even hint at it - but I was certainly unnerved by how heartbroken he was. I felt really terrible that I was able to create such powerful emotions in anyone.

Later was our date night and DarkKnight was off at his play rehearsal. We loafed around on the couch and PunkRock seemed much improved. He spent a lot of time researching hotel options for our October beach trip. We had planned one for the summer but it fell through due to costs for my daughter going to Nepal, so we are playing catch up. I think we are going to go to Virginia Beach - he found a rock and gem show in the area and now he is excited. There also seem to be a lot of antiques and museums. I am definitely looking forward to it!

We went to bed and snuggled for a bit there - I needed skin to skin contact - and then we went back to the couch and watched two comedy standup shows back to back. We decided to be naughty and were butt naked the entire time, under a blanket. :)

This morning I couldn't help but look at him while he slumbered beside me and be filled with amazement that he still sees me as worth it. He's so incredibly awesomesauce.

We had sex before I showered and it was great, as always. I will continue to love this man completely - parts of him just resonate with my soul. I am confident we will get over this hump. He's my happy. I can't imagine it any other way.
 
Today I am spending a part of the afternoon at WarMan's house. I brought lunch over and discussed issues with him. Apparently his best friend told him last night she is thinking of divorcing her husband. This makes me unhappy, for several reasons, but mostly I feel sadness that she seems like such a great person and that sort of upheaval is never easy. I also feel partly responsible - that by being with me, WarMan has spotlighted her discontent, which might have not happened otherwise. Clearly there are lots of issues in her marriage but I feel partly responsible.

After some discussion, WarMan went back to work and I started cleaning a section of his kitchen. When I was overnight at his house the other night, he picked up a table off of Craigslist and I am now pulling out some things so it has a home to live. Actually, I stopped now because everything is done except that the table now needs its legs reattached, so I figured I'd write here until WarMan had a break and could get it put together. :) Space by space, we're making his apartment look more like a home and not a storage facility that he sleeps in. Lol
 
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