Have my cake and eat it too? Trouble in paradise

SilverSprings

SilverSprings

New member
HI there- I am brand new here but not to the concept. I am 33 year old bi-female..was married for 7 years to a man and we experimented with swinging, 3-somes, open RL's. I am since divorced, lived alone and dated a bit and found a wonderful 31yo guy from Europe and we have been dating over 1 year now. He knew all along that i was bi-sexual and liked to 'play' w/ girls, specifically there were 2 girls i would occasionally hook up with and he seemed to not mind or even think it was part of my fun side and maybe even attracted by it. I admit to being a hardcore free bird in my new-found independent life. I have also been seeing a wonderful therapist for my own personal growth for several months now. With her help- I escaped a job I hated and worked on a eating disorder and really am emerging from my cocoon so to speak ready to flap my wings :)

So, my relationship with my BF has been going along really well, but once I stopped having the two girls to play with (for various reasons, one sort of fell away and the other i no longer really want to) I decided to talk to my BF and put up a online profile for a girl. I did not really know what I wanted from the girl, but i was just curious to see who was out there. I told my BF about it, and with in like 1-2 days i found a great 31yo chick from the West coast who recently moved out East. (guess i like 31yo's lol)

With my BF's ok- i met up with her , while he was away on a vacation (keep in mind my BF and i live about 1 hour apart but we spend weekends and some week nights together, .. he is more of a fan of monogamy for himself at least, and i am struggling for that reason to make this all work). So- her and i had the sparks and great time together right away. We met up a second time a few weeks later (due to busy schedules) and went out for a crazy night at a gay bar as well as a sleepover which was amazing, hot and fulfilled my fantasy of being with a girl in ways i had not experienced in quite some time! The girl btw- is bi but teetering on being gay, and has had some scarring based on being hurt in the past. After our really great time together, this is where I kind of screwed up. I broke the cardinal rule in open RL's... I breached my BF's trust :/

Keep in mind my BF and I dont have any kind of boundaries or agreements about this whole thing, we are sort of testing the waters. But the girl and i meanwhile have grown close, texting all day long and such.

So, a day after the girl and I had our hot adventure, I texted my BF saying i was meeting with "my friend", and that was it really. For some reason (according to my therapist this was a sort of test to get his reaction) I dont know why i wasn't totally upfront, perhaps i was scared or really was testing, IDK. Anyhow, I did first meet with a friend, and then I met up with the new Girl and we slept together again. Afterwards, i went back to my BF's house, where i was honest about seeing her (but not sleeping w/ at that time), but he reacted very strong and was upset because mostly that I lied and was not totally honest i was going to see her. We talked and hugged it out, and then later that night, just after him and i fooled around, i admitted to hooking w/ her. Oh boy - this was bad and caused something really to set off some emotions and i was up al night in tears and it was the first official "argument" in our 1 + year relationship :(

He claims i need to work to regain back his trust, understandably. He had given me that freedom, and i guess in all fairness i pushed the boundaries, but we really do not have actual agreement/ boundaries outlined. ie: I Must text him before each meetig/encounter.

the other thing is, I am sort of well read and undrestand Open relationships, but he is not. I suppose it is my job to introduce him to the books I have and feel him out more. But as of right now, he admits hes going along w/ it to make me happy because he loves me. He is a bit confused, because and its true that things couldn't be better between him and I. I just also really fell for this girl. He had already told me that he didn't want to feel like a 3rd wheel or feel so left out and that he was clear he is happy being the 'primary' in my life- but i think it might be unrealistic to think i can never develop an emotional connection with a girl that i pursue.

Leading me to the last point- my BF said he is OK with me having a "girl on the side" but doesn't want me to have a emotional/love relationship with her. Meanwhile, the girl i am with is from the school of "how can one control that" and she even sees feelings in her heart for me already, and perhaps i do as well, and am scared as hell to tell my BF about that! He questions her motives and even more so now that she and I snuck off that day. And i am trying to fix all of this.

My question is:

A) should i take a break from my girl, and focus on rebuilding trust w/ my BF? and wait for him to be OK with this and get a more clear idea after educating him a bit about open relationships, what exactly he is comfortable with? (even if it means maybe losing the connection with the current girl) :(

B) am i ignorant to pursue a realtionship with this girl knowing that she is somewhat already falling in love with me and claims that she never experienced such feelings of happiness and ease of communication with any one before in her life :/ she and i have a good thing - for sure. but i honestly can not control how one thinks, and if there is love feelings, this is what scares me, because i love my BF so much and eventually see us having something more serious (move in together/long term-ish).

C) I dont know where i fall on the "model" of ORs :? Since i life alone, but have a boyfriend/primary. But i want the ability to continue to live alone for a bit since i enjoy and have acclimated to it, and would love to have a girl over from time to time.

Thank you all so much! I have been wracking my brain, and the 3 of all have been losing sleep and stressing, and i feel as the sort of conductor of all of this, it is my job to be responsible and step up with some kind of plan.

Oh speaking of plans: are there any tips ideas or samples of a realtioship agreement?

: )
 
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A) should i take a break from my girl, and focus on rebuilding trust w/ my BF? and wait for him to be OK with this and get a more clear idea after educating him a bit about open relationships, what exactly he is comfortable with? (even if it means maybe losing the connection with the current girl)*

What if he is never ok with it? Would you be happy being monogamous?

B) am i ignorant to pursue a realtionship with this girl knowing that she is somewhat already falling in love with me and claims that she never experienced such feelings of happiness and ease of communication with any one before in her life :/ she and i have a good thing - for sure. but i honestly can not control how one thinks, and if there is love feelings, this is what scares me, because i love my BF so much and eventually see us having something more serious (move in together/long term-ish).

You can have loving long term relationships with two or more partners. I have two husbands. My relationship are separate and equal. I have two separate houses.. Both men are loves of my lives

C) I dont know where i fall on the "model" of ORs :? Since i life alone, but have a boyfriend/primary. But i want the ability to continue to live alone for a bit since i enjoy and have acclimated to it, and would love to have a girl over from time to time.*

Why does your boyfriend have to be primary. I dislike the whole primary secondary model. I feel like it places one on a pedestal and the other a second class
 
Sorry, a couple of quick questions, what makes this boyfriend 'primary' just because he came first? Or are you aiming for marriage and settling down with him? What makes it unlikely that this girlfriend wouldn't be a primary in the future? Are you sure you are not falling into a male ownership/women as play things i.e. disposable, trope? I mean, you seem to enjoy your freedom so why limit yourself?

Also, do you think it fair to go cold on this woman who you admit is falling for you?
I find this confusing

I just also really fell for this girl.
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If you have a tendency to form emotional relationships than this is Polyamory, your boyfriend has got to get used to it if you are going to continue to be together.

Also, I don't understand your RL/OR abbreviations.
 
A) should i take a break from my girl, and focus on rebuilding trust w/ my BF? and wait for him to be OK with this and get a more clear idea after educating him a bit about open relationships, what exactly he is comfortable with? (even if it means maybe losing the connection with the current girl)
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Yes. If you want to keep the BF around, you could rebuild trust with him.

Whether or not you take a break from dating the woman -- that's a separate issue.

If you are going to stick with a primary-secondary model -- act like it. BF comes first. Apologize for not ironing boundaries out before jumping into bed with GF.

If a primary-secondary model no longer fits you, then talk to BF about changing what open model you want to practice together and what boundaries there will be.

Part of the problem seems to be that you never ironed all that out BEFORE you went off to date new people without thinking first.

B) am i ignorant to pursue a relationship with this girl knowing that she is somewhat already falling in love with me and claims that she never experienced such feelings of happiness and ease of communication with any one before in her life :/ she and i have a good thing - for sure. but i honestly can not control how one thinks, and if there is love feelings, this is what scares me, because i love my BF so much and eventually see us having something more serious (move in together/long term-ish).
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If your intention toward her is casual sex only -- could tell her up front what your intentions are and not lead her on since she seems to want more.

If you want love-share also and not just sex-share with GF? You will inform her of your probs with BF in your plunging forward without his full on board. Ask if she's willing to wait for you or not and if she's willing to iron out the problems between you and her. Apologize for the sloppy start.

Apologize, ask her forgiveness and patience and then sort out your mini-relationships in order of committments made: BF of 1+ year, then GF of a few weeks. Again, if you subscribed to a pimary-secondary model, act like it.

Or have the talks to change the open relationship model you 3 will practice from this point on.

Or break up with BF.
Or break up with GF.
Or break up with BOTH.

You have decisions to make as you face the consequences of your choices.

Could remember this is not about open relationships per se.

This is about learning to be considerate of others and realizing that you are NOT a footloose single if you have a BF. (And now a GF.)

If you want to behave like a free agent, say so up front to both partners and then they can know what to expect from you and what NOT to expect from you. That would serve you better and is less messy than that this. If you date MORE people down the road... being up front about wanting to be a free agent could serve you better with them too.

C) I dont know where i fall on the "model" of ORs :? Since i life alone, but have a boyfriend/primary. But i want the ability to continue to live alone for a bit since i enjoy and have acclimated to it, and would love to have a girl over from time to time.
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You don't have to live with someone to have them be your primary person.

But since you don't sound like you have it together with your BF and GF, ask if they are willing to forgive you, the botched start, and if they are willing to build a new thing here and better define what it is you share.

Could read open relationship models and see what resonates with this group of players. Could sort out your boundaries for time management, emotional management, and conflict resolution method should new conflict arise.

Oh speaking of plans: are there any tips ideas or samples of a realtioship agreement?
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It's DIY. Everyone is different and has different wants/needs/limits.

The simplest? Ask your own people

  • WHO is up for this polyship? WHO do they date/not date?
  • WHAT open relationship model(s) they are willing to participate in?
  • WHAT are the dealbreakers? Limits? Boundaries?
  • HOW they want to be treated and treat each other while in it? (Esp how to deal in conflict resolution in future and how to be held accountable to the polyship)
  • HOW they want it to end and be as exes should it come time to land the polyship?
  • WHERE the relationship happens (ex: are you "out" at church but not at work?)
  • WHEN the relationship happens (ex: MWF for BF, T and Th for GF, weekends for you)
  • WHY they all want to be here. If it isn't for the joy of being here, and more like "So I don't lose you" or similar... end it. It won't fly if people are here from fearful reasons. Nobody can feel safe in relationship that way.

This is conversation you could have had with BF before hand. Now you have to play catch up and hope for their forgiveness.

I hope for your sake it goes well and you work it out. I'm sorry you are struggling. :(

Galagirl
 
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I am also new to polyamory... but here is my 2 cents...

honesty is key..

if you are just having casual sex with her... she needs to know... and your bf needs to know that is your intention. If she wants love... and you cant reciprocate. .. maybe she should move on.

if you feel deeper emotions for her. .. it is only fair that you share that with your bf and her if you plan to keep seeing her. If you try to hide those from him... eventually it will come to the surface and it will probably hurt him if he has been led to believe otherwise. Telling someone that you love, that you care for someone else is not easy... and it may not be a kumbayah moment... but there is the chance it could lead to something wonderful! There is also the chance that it will lead to a break up.

So practically... if you have feelings for her... and you aren't willing to risk admitting that to your bf... you might need to break it off with her. If you keep on going (knowing you feel for her and your bf probably wont appreciate that) I would consider it cheating.

To me it sounds like your arrangement with him is that you are allowed to do solo swinging with girls... but he is not comfortable with you doing what you want... whenever you want. To be honest... I think that's fair. My husband knows what I do all the time.. and who with. My bf knows what I do all the time and who with. And vice versa pretty much. I don't need to "approve" what anyone does... but it is kind of common courtesy in our relationship. I can see why your bf got upset... he thought you were seeing a friend. .. but you were seeing your gf and didn't tell him. It kind of has a cheating flavor to it....

If I were you I would talk to your bf as openly as you did on this forum... tell him what you want, what you feel, and what you intend to do... then hear what he has to say... and if you can - negotiate. Also ... keep in mind that some things take time and his initial reaction may not be what he feels in a little while. If all that goes well... then talk to your gf... and do the same thing. Try to keep everyone in the loop!

Good luck
-Cherry
 
Thanks so much all :)

Some of your advice was soo helpful, as I apologized both to my BF and the girl i am seeing (was). My BF and i are still working to regain trust, so i have decided to sort of take a 'hiatus' for abit. However, I sort of even feel pushed to break it off with her, because she is somewhat intensely into me. However, i have a feeling that this is going to happen esp if i find a single girl, who doesn't already have someone in her heart in the way that i do. I think i can like someone very much, and love my boyfriend, but not sure if i want to or can deal with loving two people at the same time :/ seems like maybe it would take away what i have with my BF.

We had the week from hell and we were not getting along and i have been resenting him very much. I had therapy this week and she is on my side and trying to help me to be happy. I am still very much confused.

Last conversation with my BF was basically me agreeing that it might be the best thing to break it off w/ the girl, and move on ... eventually find a new one or even just give us a try since we are even somewhat new (just over 1 year together, but even only saying the "L" word this summer to eachother). He moved really really slow, which i respected. Now that he has romantic feelings for me, i also want to make sure i am not just freaking out at that change and looking for some strange way to self sabotage the RL

Oh, btw: RL- relationship as one person who replied was curious about :)

More updates soon, but also would love more feedback, as i feel like giving up on the girl is not what I truly want! but i dont want my BF to think im some idiot and willing to jeopardize my RL with him :(
 
How could you be so cold and callous towards her? I don't think you deserve her love if you can write that you will end it (just because you don't want your bf to think you are an idiot? I mean wtf?) and "eventually find a new one"?

Talk about objectification....and people wonder why lesbians won't date bisexuals :(

Urgh.....
 
Huh? I am not being cold or objectifying to her. I am venting my frustrations here. I very much am keeping her in the loop and we only met 3 times and started talking w/in this month. I dont feel bad if i have to break it off in everyones best interest, and i want what is healthy for her too. I simply cant fall in love easily, as it takes me a loong time to get to know someone which i think is normal for me. As for my intent, it was more towards something casual, which she actually has been pushing for me to sway more in the way of emotional. I am not such an emotive person. I tend to be alittle on the sexual side even in all of my RLs and have a past in swinging as well, so i am trying to see what it is i want. Im not looking to be judged on these forums but i am letting off some steam since my stress is so high and i am looking for some advice. :/

I like her very much, she is very cute- but i also see her repeating things like getting involved w/ already involved girls, getting hurt, girls going back to their former partners etc. She moved across country due to a bad breakup.. So, since I just want something light, and she isn't even sure she can do that- i just dont know where to steer this thing except thinking to end it, and find another girl who is looking for something light, or who might already be involved w/ someone who is looking for a FWB or such, on the side.. but why then does she keep talking and have interest in me? its all really confusing and i am sad, because i do "like" her very much.. as a friend, as a play friend, as a person. I think she is extremely pretty, interesting and a great person. I just see some drama in her past, and really dont need it and can't function that way.

As for saying that about "bi" girls.. i know lots of gay and bi people. its irrelevant! I am who I am with men and with women. I am not a very emotional woman.
 
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Natja said:
How could you be so cold and callous towards her? I don't think you deserve her love if you can write that you will end it (just because you don't want your bf to think you are an idiot? I mean wtf?) and "eventually find a new one"?

Talk about objectification....and people wonder why lesbians won't date bisexuals :(

Urgh.....
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silversprings sounds more like a swinger than one who is polyamorous.

OP if you are only wanting sex with others than you should be up front with her/him that is your intention.

I would hate to have been your now ex-gf and would probably have left this relationship with you with a bad bad taste in my mouth. I would have felt used and taken advantage of...but had I been told this is only a fwb/nsa situation, then the break up would have been expected and I would have guarded my heart from developing feelings for you.

I have never been really upset by a post on here from one's choices/behaviors, but honestly, this one does for me. :mad:
 
eek! i feel like some kind of horrible person or monster here :0 I assure you that she knew well that we were not GFs. She knew well i had a BF. My Bf knew about her and said anything non emotional was Ok. Theres no break up to be had more of a decision or cross roads of sorts as to how to continue after i was dishonest to my bf. not looking to be crucified here... and guess poly forums might not be the place for me. my bad. and FTR- i dont recall referring to her as my GF. I have a BF and was looking for a fun light nice chica to fulfill my desire for women. I have had GFs for short periods of time during my divorce but am not sure that would work for me now. The girl in my life knew i was involved and in love and idk why im having to defend myself here....
 
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I'm not trying to crucify just there was no mention of the upfront communication, which is so important in poly relationships. It still sounds to me that you desire fwb's and not emotional relationships outside of the one with bf.
 
SilverSprings said:
eek! i feel like some kind of horrible person or monster here :0 I assure you that she knew well that we were not GFs.
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That is not the same as making it clear that you have no intention of getting emotionally involved. I just re-read the OP and the way you wrote it, it seems to me like you failed to communicate properly to both of them, but you only feel responsibility to your BF because he is the one you see as primary. But that is not how Polyamory or even open relationships work, you have the responsibility to treat people ethically, even if they perhaps got the wrong end of the stick, admit your culpability here and don't take a victimised stance, you are not a victim and it won't wash. You need to be able to give secondaries/FWB a certain level of respect also, or else just remain monogamous. Please, for the sake of all other bisexual women that might be tarred by that brush.
 
Hi Silver,

I've had a read through everything you've said, including your additional comments, and I thought I'd give you my thoughts.

You're in the exploration stage, it seems. You are trying to figure out what it is that you want with your boyfriend, for a start (long term? monogamish? fully poly? polysexual? other?), not to mention the rest. Sometimes we need to explore.

However, it does sound as though you are making the mistake that many, if not all, of us can make when doing this (myself included). We become so caught up in what we want to explore, that we forget what the people we're doing that with want to explore. I've been there. I've dated because I need or want something, and conveniently ignored the fact that they are single, had just come out of relationships, were showing sings of falling for me, etc. It ends in tears.

People's emotions are people's emotions. No, you cannot control it if someone falls in love with you; and nor can I (obviously, women fall in love with me every day... ~grins~). However, we can (and *should*) take responsibility for our end. We have a responsibility to know what we want and be clear about it. If all we know is that we don't know, we have a responsibility to put this across - to say "I don't know what I want right now. Please, listen to what I'm saying. Enter at your own risk."

It's not your fault if you don't fall for people easily, or if you haven't fallen for her. It's not her fault if she does fall for people easily, or is falling for you. But what I'm saying, is take this like this:

As for my intent, it was more towards something casual, which she actually has been pushing for me to sway more in the way of emotional.
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Do you think that texting her all day long and sneaking off to meet her gave her the impression that you wanted to take it slow? Or do you think that your own NRE made you get carried away in dizzy land and its been absorbed more by her heart than yours? Are there things that you can do in future to try to keep it in a sensible and realistic realm? For example:

So, since I just want something light... find another girl who is looking for something light, or who might already be involved w/ someone who is looking for a FWB or such, on the side
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Yes, this is really what you should do. Find a girl who is looking for something light, if you are looking for something light.

.. but why then does she keep talking and have interest in me?
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Because she's falling for you, or thinks she's falling for you.

its all really confusing and i am sad, because i do "like" her very much.. as a friend, as a play friend, as a person. I think she is extremely pretty, interesting and a great person. I just see some drama in her past, and really dont need it and can't function that way.
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I understand that you will be sad to let her go, because you like her. But you can't take from her what you want and need (sex and friendship) and irresponsibly ignore the flags that the poor girl is waving at you. Do you know what I mean?

As for your boyfriend, it ultimately comes down to what kind of relationship model you want. Perhaps post another thread on that if you're confused about relationship models. Ultimately, you pick a model together that works for you.

My advice? Don't make decisions for her - make decisions for yourself. What do you want? With her, with anyone, and with your boyfriend? Convey that to both of them - lay it out, plain and simple, and see how their wants and needs fit into that.
 
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Thank you Sparklepop. Thanks so much. i now realize although very hard, i will have to break it off. Its just off on the wrong foot, and before it gets too intense and since there are flags and my BF and i fighting over this daily (we formerly never even had one bad argument) it needs to stop with her and I and i need to find someone looking for what it is that I am...

Much appreciated advice.
 
You're completely and entirely welcome, Silver. And it sounds like you're thinking along the right lines, too!
 
Hey again... so i have been so troubled by what went down here lately and feel in a way it made me reflect on myself and realize that I can't be soo selfish here. I realize i was playing victim and i have had another talk w/ Frank (my BF) telling him that I understand even though we started this all off on the wrong foot, and that i hurt him / went over the boundaries, I will not try to "fix" it now, and let him go through his motions and not force his trust back.

Secondly, we both talked about me ending things w/ Anna (I cant say GF since we never were, so I am calling her "Anna", and my BF "Frank") After we chatted, he said he just needed more time, to earn my trust. And then- he is open to revisiting this all again, putting boundaries in place properly, and even thinks he would be OK with Anna and I making plans again. Things are progressing, but Frank is still sad/going through something... because he saw the happiness that I had with both of them in my life (he is not used to me getting my happiness from anyone outside of him) for that brief time. But more so, that i went behind his back that stupid time... grr i am so mad at myself for that!

I am a big girl- I can tell Anna we can just be friends, or let things drift off since despite us texting a bit, that has died down some, she is giving space since I fully have explained the Sitch to her. she gets it but her expectation is that we can see eachother again. She fully knows i need/want better boundaries, and that Frank is my primary. She knows this all now, and still wants to keep in touch. I still have to feel out what extent of an "emotional" connection i want with a secondary person (gosh thats a weird term) but i guess I do crave a little emotional connection, as it makes it somewhat "sweeter" for me if that makes sense. However, my BF seems to have a little trouble w/ that part... as he confessed- he doesnt want anything to take away from him/us and he has his fears :/ I have at this time, no desire for things to stop with him and i see a future with him, as he does with me- so i think learning more about models, feelings, poly-stuff in general might help this a bit.

Do I take a chance, and give her another try once time passes? There certainly was an attraction that was soo easy and lovely with Anna and I. And Frank admitted to being OK with that part- and even gets turned on by it. He hasn't asked to be involved and has never had a 3sum. Anna has had 3sums and light relationships and also heavy ones. She seems to "get it". There is naturally some degree of emotions here- that is the gray area.

My thing is this- even if Anna and I stop seeing eachother, and I see another girl eventually, once Frank and I put boundaries in place- how can one say emotional switch wont be flipped on by another girl? In my experience thus far, having some FWB and a little more serious GF in the past, it tends to be at some level, emotional in general. I guess yesterday, denying that I have emotions and such, was my way of defending myself. Today- I confess I have some emotions for Anna. Not "love love" but a nice, sexy, comfy cute feeling. Hard to say what it can stay or not turn into.

I am here to work on myself, and also to learn... I have already been schooled a bit and that is why I think that getting info from you all is so valuable to me. I dont want to hurt anyone, myself, frank or anna. I value my relationships with both of them.

Thank you for further insights :)
 
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I wouldnt fuck someone I didnt at least like. And if I like them a lot, or become fond, the sex becomes more fun.

I do not get the idea of fucking some stranger and never seeing them again.

I really do not get the idea of fucking someone and being dismayed when one or both of us gets that falling in love feeling.

Now, in polyamory, one doesn't try and prevent love. Quite the contrary.

Casual fuckers who don't want to share their deepest caring selves take precautions to limit caring. Only seeing someone once. Only fucking when drunk. Not kissing. Leaving immediately after fucking. Not text chatting all day long. No cuddles and movie watching on the couch.

So, if you like to fuck people you care about at least a little, as people, not bodies, you always run the risk of falling in love. Are you willing to let feelings develop? Or keep things as cold and casual as possible so he doesn't need to deal with his jealousy?
 
Well, i do care about them both. I want a friendship at a minimum to start, and with respect to all involved, am trying to go at the comfort level of my man. Am i being too accommodating to him? Perhaps that is the issue here for me, not being able to stand up for what it is that I want. Because he is jealous type as I am learning. But he seems to think what i am seeing is at the same time cool and hot, but also weird and not the norm. Its hard- feeling so judged but at the same time seeking his support. :/
 
What about what SHE wants?

What about YOUR wants?
 
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