healthy vs unhealthy needs

A

anita

New member
Hello all!

If any of you remember from before, I'm new to poly. I have a complicated issue here that I'm really struggling to figure out. I don't know if what I'm experiencing is me having unhealthy mono tendencies that I need to work through personally or whether this is actually a relationship problem to work on with my partner. Either way, there seems to be mismatch of what needs we have and what we want from the relationship, though we both seem to be pretty equally emotionally involved in the relationship.

The basic sum of it is that I want more from the relationship than she does. We've reached a pretty stable point in the relationship, so am less inclined to believe that it's a passing feeling (it's been around since early in the relationship), which is a little worrying. I want to spend much more time with her than she does with me. She's satisfied with 1 or 2 dates a week, whereas for me that feels more like just the beginning. I've been finding it difficult to build trust and belonging in the relationship and to really explore the depths of our intimacy because the time we have together feels so incomplete. It's like every time we get together it's reconnecting and getting back to where we were before, we barely have time to then move forward and develop things. But she doesn't feel that way. 2 dates a week to her is a significant amount and more than that is too much for her.

Also, she doesn't want to live together at any point in future because she doesn't want our relationship to take priority over any potential future relationships she might start, and because she doesn't want to be seen as a couple. Both of those concerns are completely understandable, but I don't feel that they are necessary results of living together. I also have a bit of a niggle about changing things in our relationship solely out of concern that it might define other future relationships (as less important), but I don't know if that's unhelpful monogamous thinking. She's lived with a partner long-term before and the dynamic was bad, so there's baggage there for her. There was a point early in the relationship where I did kind of feel pressure like we ought to move in with each other because that's the typical lesbians-in-love thing that you just do, but I don't feel that anymore and I only want to live with her because I value the every-day intimacy that comes with it.

If anyone could help me work through what of these are healthy needs and what of them are not, I'd be so grateful.

Just for reference, right now she has 1 other partner who she sees once every week, and I have no other partners.
 
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Honestly you two do not sound compatible. You both want very different things. Why continue a relationship that doesn't meet you needs.
 
Do you have any interest in dating someone else? Is that something you could see yourself doing? Dating two women? You say you value the day to day intimacy that living together provides....will you be happy long-term not living with someone? Because, if you are more mono-inclined and do not wish to date anyone else but you would eventually like a more entwined partnership with someone, then this woman is not the relationship for you. Sometimes the twinges we get are just by-products of the programming we've received over the years. Other times, those twinges are clear signals to us that the relationship we're in is not the right relationship for us.
 
It definitely sounds like, at least for now, your friend IDs as solo poly. She needs her space. Don't try and force things, or attempt to change her. That never works. Respect her clearly stated boundaries. If you feel like twice weekly dates isn't enough, either learn to accept it, or seek a different partner that wishes to be more entangled. Don't waste your time banging your head against a wall.

There might come a time when she is ready for living together (or not). My gf and I lived apart for 3 1/2 years, commuting 20 miles to spend weekends together, before we felt ready to move in together. UHaul lesbians we were not!
 
I'm entirely sure that I'm not mono-inclined! Couldn't do love any way but poly. But I was raised in mono environments and not properly exposed to poly until this year, so I'm worried that I might still have residual mono thinking from that, (not to mention my history of codependency) which is why I'm trying to figure which of these things are unhealthy and which are valid poly stances.

As for whether or not I'd be okay with only do 2 days a week for years, I don't think I'm able to answer that at this time. I'm still trying to figure out my poly identity. Part of me thinks, yes, but it'd be painful. It's also the first time I've had feelings that are this strong for another person, so I'm trying to figure out how to treat those emotions as well.
 
Doesn't sound to me as if any of this is unhealthy vs. healthy, or even that complciated, it's a matter of how much intimacy each of you wants. Also, you can have a poly mindset and want to live with someone. Shared domesticity is something that anyone can want.

I'd encourage you to veer away from the "who has the wrong thinking" idea, take a broader perspective and see that this is about how much intimacy each of you is comfortable with. I always say that partners are very well matched, especially when they are locked in seemingly conflicting desires. I recently recognized that when I feel that I want "more" than another is able/willing to give, it's really not the case that we are mismatched. It's that instead of being clear with myself about my intimacy issues, I kinda "use" the other person as the regulator of distance. The more I yearn for closeness, the more the other pulls away. When I step back and recognize that I participate in this and that the distance is actually there for my protection, the pressure is decreased and things in the relationship can move, often we become closer. Some people call this owning your own shit.

Often times, there is no lightbulb moment of a solution. An awful lot of good stuff can happen when you step back from the seeming problem, see what you're getting out of it, think about how you might more happily get the same thing, and let the space between you re-settle into a new, better feeling arrangement. I see very few (if any) people intellectualize their way to a good relationship.
 
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I am sorry you struggle. I don't think it is healthy/unhealthy. And it is not esp poly. I think it's about personalities.

Like if there was a number line from 1 - 10. And the people at 1 super love being ultra independent. And the people at 10 super love doing things together, or even in a bunch of people.

A 6 and and and 9 might get long ok. The gap is not to big to bridge. Likewise a 3 and a 6 might get along ok.

But a 3 and an 9 might struggle and find the gap is just too big to come to compromise on. If the 3 did more stuff like the 9, the 9 would be happy but the 3 would feel run down and cranky. If the 9 did more stuff like the 3, the 3 would be happy but then the 9 would feel lonely/bored.

It's a personality thing. And if you are too different, you may be compatible enough to be friends, but not enough to be partners.


The basic sum of it is that I want more from the relationship than she does.
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Well, here's the highlights as I see them:

  • Been a thing since the beginning of the relationship and it bugs you.
  • She doesn't want more than 2 dates a week, and you do.
  • She doesn't want to live together eventually, and you do.
  • She doesn't want to be seen as a couple, and you seem to want to be acknowledged as a significant partner. Not that she can't have other significant partners, but just that you want acknowledgement in her life. (???)

This is all you are going to get here. She's been honest and up front with you.

So this is internal conflict --
  • you have to decide if you are satisfied with what you have as it is and you let go of the want to have more
  • or you let the relationship go because it isn't enough for you
  • Or something else I cannot think of right now.

Galagirl
 
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FallenAngelina said:
Doesn't sound to me as if any of this is unhealthy vs. healthy, or even that complciated, it's a matter of how much intimacy each of you wants. Also, you can have a poly mindset and want to live with someone. Shared domesticity is something that anyone can want.

I'd encourage you to veer away from the "who has the wrong thinking" idea, take a broader perspective and see that this is about how much intimacy each of you is comfortable with.
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Hmmmm. Well, I don't think it's about how much intimacy we're comfortable with, I mean I think that's a separate issue (and also a non-issue). She just needs a lot of time to herself. Thanks for the perspective though, it's helpful to know I can just think of these things as my own needs/wants and not bad junk from the past or from inexperience.

It's difficult that this dynamic is just completely foreign to me. I'm not at all used to only spending 1 or 2 days of the week with someone I'm deeply in love with and who's deeply in love with me, and I'm not quite sure how to deal with it yet.
 
Hi anita,

I don't think your needs are necessarily unhealthy, they're just different from the needs of your partner. Your partner needs to be independent, you need to be more involved with your partner. The two of you just need different things, that doesn't mean either of you is in the wrong. The question is what do you do about it, and I'm not sure. I guess you need to find out if there is a compromise that both of you can live with. If there's not, then you need to transition to just being friends, and seek out new partners.

I think that your partner wants more of a dating relationship, whereas you want more of a, well, partner relationship. Does that make sense?

In any case I hope we can help you figure this out.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
anita said:
Hmmmm. Well, I don't think it's about how much intimacy we're comfortable with, I mean I think that's a separate issue (and also a non-issue).
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What you're describing does sound like intimacy quandaries to me (if "issues" is perhaps too drastic a word.) You two are not just matter-of-factly trying to work out a schedule (which would be an intimacy non-issue) but you're having some real emotional push/pull over this. If it were simply a scheduling and preference thing, you wouldn't be feeling much emotion around it and the relationship likely would not have lasted even 7 months. It sounds to me like there's a lot more to this than simple preferences. That's just the impression I get given what you've shared with us so far.


anita said:
.... I want more from the relationship than she does. ....I've been finding it difficult to build trust and belonging in the relationship and to really explore the depths of our intimacy because the time we have together feels so incomplete. ....She's lived with a partner long-term before and the dynamic was bad, so there's baggage there for her.
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I feel you Anita. Earlier this year I broke it off with someone who, like your girlfriend, seemed fine to see me once or twice a week. It always left me feeling hungry for him, and I hated that feeling. I felt frustrated knowing that the relationship wasn't likely to grow, or deepen significantly, at least not anytime soon. It wasn't satisfying for me.

Listen to your emotions and don't just try to talk yourself out of them. If the parameters of the relationship causes you more frustration than joy, end it or put it on the backburner and put more of your focus towards meeting someone open to deeper intimacy.
 
FallenAngelina said:
What you're describing does sound like intimacy quandaries to me (if "issues" is perhaps too drastic a word.) You two are not just matter-of-factly trying to work out a schedule (which would be an intimacy non-issue) but you're having some real emotional push/pull over this. If it were simply a scheduling and preference thing, you wouldn't be feeling much emotion around it and the relationship likely would not have lasted even 7 months. It sounds to me like there's a lot more to this than simple preferences. That's just the impression I get given what you've shared with us so far.
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Oh I see. I guess what I meant by not having intimacy issues is that we've no trouble at all being intimate with one another. The thing of not being with each other enough isn't really an item of contention in the relationship at this point. I don't pine when I'm not with her and I actually do pretty fine, but I *have* been noticing especially recently that I would like more, and that if there were more I could go so much deeper than we already have. As it is now, I restrain / scale back my feelings to match the amount of time we see each other.


LoveBunny said:
I feel you Anita. Earlier this year I broke it off with someone who, like your girlfriend, seemed fine to see me once or twice a week. It always left me feeling hungry for him, and I hated that feeling. I felt frustrated knowing that the relationship wasn't likely to grow, or deepen significantly, at least not anytime soon. It wasn't satisfying for me.

Listen to your emotions and don't just try to talk yourself out of them. If the parameters of the relationship causes you more frustration than joy, end it or put it on the backburner and put more of your focus towards meeting someone open to deeper intimacy.
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Well the relationship has grown and deepened, and it *is* very satisfying. The frustration that's there is just a feeling that it could be so much more (and it's already a lot). This isn't a dealbreaker for me, I care too much about this person for it to be that, but it does add a complication to the relationship and I have to learn to manage my feelings around that.
 
anita said:
. . . I would like more, and that if there were more I could go so much deeper than we already have. As it is now, I restrain / scale back my feelings to match the amount of time we see each other.

Well the relationship has grown and deepened, and it *is* very satisfying. The frustration that's there is just a feeling that it could be so much more (and it's already a lot).
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You've mentioned several times that you are not pining for her when you're not together, and you're deeply in love, but you want more. What would "more" look like?

You have described your relationship as very satisfying, but say that it's a drag to have to re-connect each time you geet together again, and seem to think that living together would help solve some of the discomfort you feel and also steer the relationship toward being "more."

I wonder if you're simply coming up against your own pre-conceptions about what relationships are "supposed to" look like and how they're "supposed to" go. We often have pictures in our heads of what we think a good relationship should look like, but trying to live up to those pictures instead of being content within ourselves and with "what is" can prevent us from truly enjoying and appreciating what is in front of us right now. And once this moment of now is gone, that's it. It's gone. If it's not broken, what needs to be fixed? Or is it just that the relationship is not following the trajectory you believe or expect it should?
 
nycindie said:
I wonder if you're simply coming up against your own pre-conceptions about what relationships are "supposed to" look like and how they're "supposed to" go. We often have pictures in our heads of what we think a good relationship should look like, but trying to live up to those pictures instead of being content within ourselves and with "what is" can prevent us from truly enjoying and appreciating what is in front of us right now. And once this moment of now is gone, that's it. It's gone. If it's not broken, what needs to be fixed? Or is it just that the relationship is not following the trajectory you believe or expect it should?
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Exactly, 100%, that's what I'm wondering. Very early in the relationship we came upon some painful difficulties because both of us had insecurities and other things, and part of resolving that involved me releasing my expectations of us and just letting the relationship be what it would. And to go back even further, it was only by releasing my (negative) expectations of myself that I even allowed myself to begin the relationship in the first place. So I've doing a lot of that, and it's allowed me to appreciate our love in a much more significant and mindful way. What I originally expected of the relationship was actually that it would crash and burn, but thankfully that didn't happen.

nycindie said:
You've mentioned several times that you are not pining for her when you're not together, and you're deeply in love, but you want more. What would "more" look like?

You have described your relationship as very satisfying, but say that it's a drag to have to re-connect each time you geet together again, and seem to think that living together would help solve some of the discomfort you feel and also steer the relationship toward being "more."
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What more would look like is not so much more one-on-one time, because I'm okay with how much of that we have now, but more time passively together, sharing space. The kind of constancy you can't really get any other way than living with each other or staying over at each other's houses for multiple days in a row on a regular basis.

I wouldn't say it's so much a drag to reconnect, it just means that part of our time together has to be dedicated to doing so, which detracts from our time deepening the relationship. That alone isn't a huge issue, but it can be tiring when we have to do it every single time we see each other, and the bigger issue is that I have trouble emotionally engaging as deeply when I know that in a few hours we're going to separate and that emotional connection is going to be cut off.
 
It's odd to me that you see things the way you do, because I am definitely someone who is fine with seeing someone whom I love and care for deeply just a few times a week. More than two or three days together and it starts to feel oppressive or like just too much to me.

And, thinking particularly about someone with whom I was involved for almost two years, whenever we got together I never had that sense of needing to re-connect or catch up (other than asking about what was going on or how such-and-such turned out). We stayed in touch between seeing each other - and sometimes there would be a month or six weeks since our last time together - and whenever he came over, things just easily settled into our usual groove. He could plop himself on my couch and turn on the TV, or say he needed a nap, or go to the fridge to grab a bite, or initiate sex, or whatever, and there was never any period of having to re-connect that I recall, except for near the end of our relationship, when we didn't see each other for about two months after his other gf passed away. He could come over and just hang out to do whatever he wanted, even if I was busy with something else, so, despite only seeing each other once or twice a week, we definitely spent "passive" time together without an event or specific agenda.

And with most of my relationships, I never feel like the emotional connection will go away just because we are not going to be in the same space for a few days. I don't understand how that could happen, actually. Just showing you a different perspective.

What it sounds like to me is that somehow you place a sort of pressure on yourself to make sure that the time you spend with her is like a special event, and/or pressure on how your "dates"/get-togethers should go or what you "should" expect from the time you spend together. What keeps it from being easy and comfy as soon as she walks in the door? Are you easy-going and comfortable with yourself? My guess is that what bothers you or doesn't feel right is something internal, like an expectation or belief you hold that gets in the way of enjoying "just being" together and has you feeling like you need to bridge some imaginary distance so that you've reached a state that, to you, feels like "aaah, now we're connected again." Does that make any sense?
 
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nycindie said:
What it sounds like to me is that somehow you place a sort of pressure on yourself to make sure that the time you spend with her is like a special event, and/or pressure on how your "dates"/get-togethers should go or what you "should" expect from the time you spend together. What keeps it from being easy and comfy as soon as she walks in the door? Are you easy-going and comfortable with yourself? My guess is that what bothers you or doesn't feel right is something internal, like an expectation or belief you hold that gets in the way of enjoying "just being" together and has you feeling like you need to bridge some imaginary distance so that you've reached a state that, to you, feels like "aaah, now we're connected again." Does that make any sense?
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It does, and I don't know whether I place that kind of pressure on myself. It may be the case that I do, without being aware of it. I am generally quite aware of the fact that we only have so much time together and "pull back" emotionally in anticipation of that, but if we're both feeling well then generally it will be easy and comfy as soon as one of us walks in the door. It's more the deeper-down stuff that suffers than the enjoyment of each other's company. It's very easy to enjoy each other's company. It's when we get into the deeper areas of intimacy that I encounter difficulties because if I open myself completely then there'll be pain later when our date is over and I'm having to struggle to readjust to not being with her. So, I rarely feel able to let go of myself in connecting with her, and there's always that small barrier to a level of intimacy that I can see right there within reach.
 
anita said:
...if I open myself completely then there'll be pain later when our date is over and I'm having to struggle to readjust to not being with her. So, I rarely feel able to let go of myself in connecting with her, and there's always that small barrier to a level of intimacy that I can see right there within reach.
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This does seem like a serious mismatch to me. I don't think you are simply bumping against societal expectations.

I wonder if you are belittling your feelings as a defense mechanism (against the same pain you mention), staying perhaps a little in denial. I certainly got the impression from your writing. I may be wrong, sure, but I encourage you to try to, as an exercise, let go of thoughts and barriers and feel anything that comes up.
 
I certainly do have a history of doing defense mechanism-y things with my feelings.
 
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anita said:
It's more the deeper-down stuff that suffers than the enjoyment of each other's company. It's very easy to enjoy each other's company. It's when we get into the deeper areas of intimacy that I encounter difficulties because if I open myself completely then there'll be pain later when our date is over and I'm having to struggle to readjust to not being with her. So, I rarely feel able to let go of myself in connecting with her, and there's always that small barrier to a level of intimacy that I can see right there within reach.
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Not to be a nudge, but this is ALL about intimacy fears. It's not about time clocked in or relationship styles (poly vs. mono.) Struggling to readjust after a deep shared closeness has a huge fear component to it. This is a fairly common fear, but the extent to which you describe it is noteworthy - worth paying attention to and not passing off as just a factor of time.

As has been mentioned, keeping a close, intimate emotionally safe connection is not a factor of physical presence, but of interest in and willingness to open up to it. I'm not trying to get you to settle for crumbs of time, if the time she offers feels that way to you. Rather, it's more helpful for you to see that this is about how you're choosing to emotionally connect and how you maintain distance. Not to blame you, but to point out that it's possible for you to work on this so that you have a more confident and empowered outlook.
 
What is "deeper areas of intimacy?" Could you be willing to clarify?

What I originally expected of the relationship was actually that it would crash and burn, but thankfully that didn't happen.
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Then you have been willing to take a risk in the relationship before. Why not now? :confused:

Is this your behavior/thinking process? :confused:

WANT
  • I want to let go of myself in connecting with her.

BEHAVIOR
  • I rarely let go of myself in connecting with her. My behavior does not support my want.

THOUGHTS
  • If I let go and open myself completely, I will feel pain later when the date is over.
  • I don't like readjusting to not being with her.
  • (This thinking sounds like you talking yourself out of taking the risk and fueling fears)


What happens when you do let go? Do you enjoy it? :confused:

If you choose to keep the want, it might be one of those things where you pay the price of admission a few times so it can get easier over time: You risk feeling pain. But you don't PREDICT pain. You just let it happen or not happen and either way you deal with it. You could do behavior in support of the want, rather than doing behavior that goes against the want. Like...

WANT
  • I want to let go of myself in connecting with her.

BEHAVIOR
  • I let go of myself in connecting with her. My behavior suppports my want.

THOUGHTS
  • If there is no pain when the date is over? I will just enjoy having had a good date.
  • I feel pain later when the date is over? I will practice coping skills to help me through it/reduce it.
  • I don't like readjusting to not being with her at this time, but I think over time it will get better as my coping skill get stronger.
  • (This thinking sounds like you fueling coping)

Or you let go of the want to be open and close, and just keep it how it is or end it. Then you feel better in time because you aren't having internal conflict between your want and your behavior.

Emotional weather is emotional weather. Some feelings are fun feel, some are not fun to feel. Sunny days or rainy skies? They all pass in time. Emotional resilience isn't built by avoiding feeling things. It's built by allowing yourself to feel the full range of human emotion and knowing that whatever one it is in the moment, you've done it before and coped with it ok.

Galagirl
 
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