Help! New and confused.

[Babyblues]

Hello all. I've been in a relationship with my man for about 6 months now. I have never loved like I love this man. A while back I thought he was cheating due to his behavior, after a couple fights he came clean that he has been in a relationship with another woman. This other woman and him have been together as long as we have, and he didn't end either relationship because he was unsure of where the other was going. It's been 2 months since we've now both known about him having someone else. He met both of us online. This other woman however lives 10 hours away and they haven't met in person yet, but he also loves her but says she could never fuFfil a 'full time' girlfriend roll to him. I live close and spend all but 2 days during the week there. There's been many ups and down and I've asked more questions than I thought I ever could but it's made us closer to be able to be so open. He however doesn't want me to see other people. I don't think I want to, but I want the option and believe I should have the same rights if you will. She on the other hand knows very little about me and doesn't care to. I have a very open mind but never put much thought into the poly thing. Now being in a situation I don't care to be poly but am trying to accept my partners decision to be. I've gotten more frustrated lately because the more I learn about her and about their relationship the less 'real' it seems and they are not on the same page. It's not really my place to be frustrated but I can't seem to help it. He has a 13 yr old daughter, who knows there's another woman in his life but that's about it. Since learning he doesn't want more kids she's decided she now after always wanting kids she doesn't want any. When he told her about me she was devastated because he was her world and she planned on spending her life with him. In 2 days she decided she was ok with his terms; he only plans on seeing her every other month for 1 weekend,Friday to Sunday. They talk most days and video chat when I'm not there. She doesn't know his daughter knows nothing about her really. They are finally making plans to meet since I've given him the ok to after almost 2 months coming to terms with what I think I can handle, and one of her most recent statements has been she's willing to wait this out. Him and I discussed the other night that I think she is waiting for him to change his mind about me or me just to leave. Given she thought it was just them for 4 months and was willing to be with him forever going to being with him physically 6 weekends a year... I can't believe she's really ok with this. I dont know many people in poly relationships, let alone poly mono. I'm just looking for advice, opinions, support.

On a side note I've been trying to read up on this and it seems A lot of people want to see other people because their relationship lacks something or there is such a difference in sex drive. We don't lack anything in our relationship and our sex drives match quite well. We as well as him and her have a kinky relationship of sorts he says she just has a different way of being submissive.

 

[GreatView]

I'm new here as well, but not new to relationships, and poly or not, keeping that kind of information hidden for 4 months would require a very extensive conversation about honesty and respect, followed by a path of rebuilding trust if I thought I was able to manage the unavoidable discomfort that will occur as the foundations of a relationship are re-built.

I wish you luck in making decisions that honor and protect your authentic self as you seek your own happiness.

 

[GalaGirl]

Welcome.

I am sorry you struggle.

I have never loved like I love this man.

I am concerned that because you haven't loved like this before, you aren't seeing some of the things that would concern me if I were in your shoes.

Here's what pops out at me as a bullet list. Maybe it helps you to read it that way?

BACKGROUND

• Been together 6 mos.
• 4 months in you thought he was cheating.
  • After fighting you learn he'd been dating someone else at the same time as you.
  • This was either lies of omission and/or cheating depending on what your agreements were. Were agreements broken? Was there an expectation of honesty/forthrightness?

OTHER GF

Are you frustrated with this GF because she seems to mirror some of what you are doing?

• You see her shaping herself around him and his wishes.
• She always wanted kids until she learns he doesn't. So she copies him.
• She made him her world and wanted to spent her life with with him (despite not meeting in person yet) so when he told her about you she was devastated. In 2 days she took him back on his terms.
• She says she's ok waiting it out – which you think means she wants to see who he picks to be with “for real.”

YOU

Meanwhile you also seem to shape yourself around his wishes.

• You find there was some (lies of omission/cheating) stuff. You take him back pretty quickly.
• You don't really want to be in a poly “V” but keep dating him anyway on what seem to be his terms
• He doesn't want you to see other people even though he does.
• You don't want to date this moment, but want the option to if you feel like it later. You want to have the same rights. But you don't seem to stop to actually work that out.
• You don't seem to like how he keeps his daughter in the dark.
• You don't seem to like how he treats his other GF. She sounds kinda desperate... which makes him seem kinda user-y. If that is indeed the case, it's going to be hard for you to feel good being with a user.

We don't lack anything in our relationship and our sex drives match quite well.

You seem to lack honesty.

If you don't really want to be practicing poly... you lack being on the same page about what model you want to practice together.

I can't believe she's really ok with this.

I wonder why YOU are ok with this.

There are some personalities who enjoy pitting one partner against the other so they "compete" for the hinge. It's an ego trip. Is that happening here?

I'm not sure that he is practicing poly with you two. Some of the behaviors he does don't seem very loving.

We as well as him and her have a kinky relationship of sorts he says she just has a different way of being submissive.

Don't let great sex "high" or kink dynamics cloud your judgement. NRE tends to last 6 - 24 mos. Maybe in your case, since it's been 6 mos, the pink fluffy clouds from NRE are starting to lift. So now you have to re-evaluate your relationship without NRE influences.

"Tread carefully" would be my suggestion. I could be wrong in my impression. It's only one post and only you know what is going on there.

But from the outside looking in, foundations here seem shaky at best. It sounds to me like you could square up some things if you are going to continue dating him. Or you could stop dating him because this situation is too wonky for you and not even good sex makes up for the wonky.

Galagirl

 

[Spork]

GalaGirl said much of what I was thinking, and far more logical and concise than I would have said it, too. Once again, I applaud her very cool communication skills.

I would like to add, I don't know how experienced you are with kink/BDSM. I get the impression that you're doing a power exchange thing, you mentioned submissive, I take it that he is a Dominant man and you and his other gf are submissive women? I don't know how much research and reading you have done on BDSM and power exchange relationships, or if you are in a community or anything like that. I would urge you to look into it, usually a good way is to join fetlife if you haven't yet and look at the events page (there is a link towards the top of most pages on fet, that says "events") and see if you can get to munches, discussion groups, etc. Not every place has a good community, but many do. I'm lucky enough that my city has a GREAT community, and I've been part of it for a while.

From that perspective I can tell you that when people adopt many of the wise relating behaviors often discussed in kink discussion groups, poly communities, etc, that these kinds of unusual relationships can be awesome and healthy, but the reason that they are is NOT because they are poly vs. mono or kinky vs. vanilla, it's because people are learning and exploring better relating ideas and habits by seeking education, broadening their thoughts and perspectives beyond whatever is just "normal." At the same time, it is absolutely very very possible for people to do unhealthy and even abusive things in these kinds of arrangements, too, just as much as in any kind of relationship.

You don't get to lie and cheat and when confronted just say, "Oh, I'm polyamorous, see, that makes my behavior fine." You don't get to beat on a girl, or tell her what to do (if she has not consented or agreed) and say, "It's cool, I'm The Domly Dom here." Seems this man expects women to accept things that are pretty unacceptable, and hopes maybe that the labels of poly and Dom might protect him. Or that you will feel like if you leave, you're letting the other girl "win."

I know it seems amazing. The first man I found who gave me a taste of Sadism blew my mind. I wanted to offer him everything I was on a silver platter, it felt so good and I was so hungry for it. I would have bent over backwards and put up with all sorts of weird terms for him. Looking back though, I'm really glad it didn't work out...there was nothing healthy about what was going on there. And guess what? I kept looking and it wasn't long before I found something WAY BETTER, via the kink community and fetlife, a Sadist who would give me the great experiences (better ones, actually, because he genuinely cares about my needs)...AND a relationship full of love and caring and mutual respect.

Don't stay just to "win" and "wait out" the other girl. And don't stay just because the sex is amazing, or NRE (new relationship energy) has you thinking he's the love of your life. He's not being respectful. Negotiate in good faith with the option to walk away out on the table where it belongs.

 

[Babyblues]

@Galagirl

@Galagirl you hit a lot of things on the head. I went into this relationship thinking it was 2 people.. me and him. I appreciate your input because sometimes you don't see it for yourself sometimes. I'm not sure what true poly is, but from what I've read the relationships are more 'loving' and adaptable to all parties. He's stated if one of us wants to leave we can but he will not break off a relationship omitting himself from being the 'bad guy'. I am not sure how I am going to feel once he meets her and he is well aware it could go either way. She's waiting to see if I 'break' and she would have him to herself, but doesn't understand which is his fault that they would still be nothing more than together on a part time basis. Which from talking to him is not what she wants. Yes, I feel he is using her to fulfill whatever need he feels he has and that is hard for me. He is also hesitating on actually setting something up with her. I gave the green light a month ago and nothing has been done to further plans... this is also causing confusion. If he wanted to see her so bad, why isn't he? Although, to some extent I believe they will not last knowing her wants and part of me is hanging on because of that. He's confessed the extents of his love and caring for me and I know it's real, but I also know how this was handled is not. The distance apart is helping this be more ok, it's just all so new since none of us have done anything like this before.

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings Babyblues,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Your man does seem to be treating you unfairly, what with the dishonesty (cheating really -- he cheated both on you and on the other woman) and the not wanting you to have access to any other partners like he does. If you're going to stay with this man, you should at least address these unfair behaviors with him.

I'm concerned that maybe he isn't telling the other woman as much as he says he is; I'm concerned that maybe he's misrepresenting (to you) what she's said. Be really careful here, this man has an untrustworthy record. I sympathize with your feeling that you have never loved as you love this man, that things are great in every other way (e.g. sex), and perhaps being submissive to him even plays into this. I don't say break up with him, but I do say tread with care. I'm not sure what you're getting into here.

I'll try to think of more/other advice, if you'll keep us posted.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

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[GalaGirl]

He's stated if one of us wants to leave we can but he will not break off a relationship omitting himself from being the 'bad guy'.

Huh? He doesn't want to be "the bad guy" and dump anyone?

How's he being a "good guy" when he offers each woman 1:1 dating and delivers 1:2 without telling the participants that's what it REALLY is?

When he got found out, how's he a "good guy" when he chooses to continue the wonky situation rather than clean up his messes?

She's waiting to see if I 'break' and she would have him to herself, but doesn't understand which is his fault that they would still be nothing more than together on a part time basis.

I am glad you can see he gives her scraps and she hangs on. But I suggest you stop worrying so much about her and focus more on YOU.

You also are getting scraps. Just more scraps than her. But still scraps. You were offered 1:1 and he didn't deliver. He wants to see other people, but you don't get to. It's very skewed and unfair sounding.

Yes, I feel he is using her to fulfill whatever need he feels he has and that is hard for me. He is also hesitating on actually setting something up with her. I gave the green light a month ago and nothing has been done to further plans... this is also causing confusion. If he wanted to see her so bad, why isn't he?

Because he's got her on scraps and she's on the string pretty well. He doesn't have to rush.

Maybe he's enjoying watching your struggle, confusion, and pain and that's more fun right now.

As Spork points out, kink can be a lot of fun if done healthy. But you cannot give (mean) the "kink brush" to whitewash that bad behavior away. Mean/user-y behavior is just plain mean/user-y.

Just like you can't gives (lies of omission/cheating things) the "poly brush" to whitewash that bad behavior away. Lies/cheating is just plain lies/cheating.

He's confessed the extents of his love and caring for me and I know it's real, but I also know how this was handled is not.

To me, respectful treatment and healthy relating is part of showing love. I'm not seeing that either of his partners is being treated especially healthy, respectfully, or loving.

Just saying you love me doesn't make it true. One can lie. What makes it true is words being backed up by matching actions.

When words don't match actions? I believe actions. To me talk is cheap. So he might be saying nice words to you but what he DOES is not nice. He makes mess. You seem to be able to see that.

Maybe that's the current internal struggle -- wanting to believe the loving words in your heart, but you observations are starting to tell you otherwise in your head now that the NRE clouds are lifting.

To me? At only 6 mos in, the lies of omission/cheating start thing, and watching him kinda be a user-y to that other girl, and then oversharing info about his other GF to watch me be upset/confused/whatever...

Sounds messy and bottom line is that I'm not getting the original dating offer. I don't have to keep shopping at this store. I'd leave and shop elsewhere. Not worth the headache. I'm sorry.

I think you could do some soul searching and decide what you want to do.

If it is too wonky, walk away permanently. (Good sex) and (not loving this intensely before) are not reasons to keep going if it is wonky. SOMEONE has to be first. But it isn't like being the first means it is going to be the ONLY. There can be good sex and intense loving experiences elsewhere without wonky.

If you are still willing to date him in a 1:1 situation if he cleans up his messes and becomes a person of his Word?

Could tell him you are taking a break. Could tell him you did not appreciate "bait and switch" where you sign up for one thing and he's really delivering another. He can go see the other girl and sort out which he prefers.

He can look you up later if he decides he wants to try 1:1 on the level with you. At that point in time, you could determine if he's become more honest and trustworthy or not. At that point in time, you could decide if you want to take him up on a NEW 1:1 dating offer or not.

If he wants to continue wonky? You don't have to ride into Wonky Town with these people. You cannot do much about his behaviors or the other GF's behaviors, but you do get to choose yours. You get to choose what bus ride you want to get on and what bus ride you do not want.

I'm sorry you deal in this. I hope things get better for you one way or another.

Galagirl

 

[dingedheart]

Flag one he got busted cheating.

I might be old fashioned but He " loves " a woman who lives 10 hrs away that he's never met in person. No one sees a flag here?

Is it possible he's getting off playing one against the other ?? Another flag IMO.

My Advice : dry shave and castrate him That's the only way some people learn.

 

[Ravenscroft]

Wow -- I just read the root post, then read it again to clarify.

Babyblues, the blunt truth is that either YOU need to turn down the cheap melodrama in your life, OR accept that YOU will be primarily responsible for your situation when something hits the fan.

Six months? BTDT: it's infatuation or maybe limerence, certainly NOT anything close to soulmate life-partner death-do-us-part fodder. The Romantic obsessiveness of limerence can hang on for a few years, until one of the people involved realizes the person doesn't live up to the fantasy.

Here's an example of self-deluding infatuation:

he was her world and she planned on spending her life with him.

They "met" online ~6 months ago. They've never met IRL. Yet he's (blurgh) her WORLD? and she's already planning the "forever" stuff?

So, a few guesses. (1) She's a massive drama queen, probably insecure & obsessive. (2) Your "man" should be creeped-out by this Fatal Attraction parody, yet he seems to find it flattering. (3) What does that say about how he views YOU? Are you a counterbalance, or more of the same?

Pitting two (for lack of a better word) relationships against each other in order to (at worst) stick with the winner is NOT polyamory & rather lame nonmonogamy.

And if you stay with him, how long will it be until you get to fight for your (ugh) man AGAIN?

If that's what spins your dials, then by all means have fun. But if not, it's up to YOU to push change or leave.

 

[Spork]

Agree with Ravenscroft. But again, the fact that power exchange dynamics are involved red flags it a bit more for me, even than what is already throwing huge flags all over the place...

OP, again, I don't know if you or the other woman are new to D/s relationships or involved in communities. Please forgive me if I presume too much. But if either of you, or even this man, ARE kind of new to all this...

Please do a Google search for "definition sub frenzy" and read the articles that come up. I'd link some, but I can't visit those pages from my work computer right now. There should however be some good ones.

This is the term in the community (also top or dom frenzy is a thing, or simply frenzy) where people are so excited to be discovering their kinks and enthusiastic to participate in this type of relationship and activity, that they are prone to making BAD CHOICES that are potentially harmful or dangerous. I have actually known men in the community who watch for new profiles on fetlife, or new people showing up at munches or events, hoping to capitalize on sub frenzy...those men, some of them are just opportunistic, some of them are predators.

Anyone who is in that state potentially, should be very careful what they're doing. I advise them to avoid relationships and instead make friends in a community environment if possible, soak up lots of education, stick to events with lots of others present (no going back to any guy's house) and get some service top/stunt bottom experiences with no sex involved to get a feel for stuff. I would personally recommend new kinksters do that for a matter of months before trying to pursue a serious relationship. Because frenzy does cloud your judgment.

Again...forgive me if I presume. But I'm trying to imagine the circumstances that would lead two women to accept a situation like this, and that feels like the most likely to me.