Hierarchy, Parallels and Kitchen Tables, Oh My!

[LaminarFlow]

At the present, I would see her throughout the day, when my wife takes her breaks. We have a very strict break schedule that revolves around my daughter’s childcare. It’s an artifact of the pandemic years.

Weekends are typically my daughter and I going somewhere for most of the day. My girlfriend has expressed interest in coming on these “adventures,” as my daughter calls them. We would likely hang out after or do so collectively.

Both agree that there needs to be a fair sleeping arrangement schedule, but I am not sure how that’s going to play out.

The dynamics of time and structure is core issue here. I’m thinking a schedule will work, but I was curious to see how others were doing it.

Girl Friend does not work? How can you see her throughout the day? Are you going to keep the overnights as they are now like once month and then gradually build? What is Wife going to do on the weekend? When is Wife getting the date nights?

This all sounds way too premature with Wife having her own issues and then leaving the childcare to her. Or do you have a nanny where Wife can also do her own stuff when you are out on dates with Girlfriend? Collectively? What if Wife and Girlfriend cannot stand eachother?

What's the problem with keeping it long-distance for a year or two or longer, get used to the dynamic. Get Wife and Girlfriend to meet and then maybe after, move her over where you are.

 

[azurebonds]

Girl Friend does not work? How can you see her throughout the day? Are you going to keep the overnights as they are now like once month and then gradually build? What is Wife going to do on the weekend? When is Wife getting the date nights?

This all sounds way too premature with Wife having her own issues and then leaving the childcare to her. Or do you have a nanny where Wife can also do her own stuff when you are out on dates with Girlfriend? Collectively? What if Wife and Girlfriend cannot stand eachother?

What's the problem with keeping it long-distance for a year or two or longer, get used to the dynamic. Get Wife and Girlfriend to meet and then maybe after, move her over where you are.

Currently, I watch my daughter the maximum possible during the weekdays while still allowing myself employment. I also take the bulk of the weekend. The only thing that changes is my girlfriend would be with me during that time. My wife has the bulk of free time and would still retain it. Her breaks aren’t changing at all. So, I am not sure how I am “leaving the childcare to her.” I also pay her as a sahm, since I consider that to be fair, as childcare is work.

If my girlfriend works roughly the same hours as me, she’ll be with me and my daughter when I am, probably not including lunch as that may be unrealistic. After my daughter goes to bed, there is no schedule.

Did none of you raise an infant from the beginning of the pandemic? What childcare was available and safe? The two of us have been watching her by ourselves. Date nights without a child? It doesn’t happen. We still go out as a family and that doesn’t change.

My girlfriend’s apartment would be in the downstairs adu. So, she’s in an apartment within the same house.

 

[azurebonds]

You are a married man with a child. If you do not have a hierarchy where your marriage and child come first, then you are a bad partner and father. This all seems manic and frenzied and like teen dreams to me. Keep your girlfriend as a long distance occasional visit (once or twice per year). Let her live and build her own life. You need to keep your head at home.

I don’t know how to respond to this, as I am not sure what assumptions are being made. Can you elaborate?

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I don’t know how to respond to this, as I am not sure what assumptions are being made. Can you elaborate?

You are a married man. Of course there is hierarchy. Throwing money around won't change that.

 

[azurebonds]

You are a married man. Of course there is hierarchy. Throwing money around won't change that.

I agreed with Bobbi’s comment, that attempting to be egalitarian in regard to a new relationship when there is an already established relationship is in itself not being fair to the latter. So, hierarchy is a given at this point.

No money is being thrown around. I did not get to where I am without being thrifty.

 

[LaminarFlow]

Currently, I watch my daughter the maximum possible during the weekdays while still allowing myself employment. I also take the bulk of the weekend. The only thing that changes is my girlfriend would be with me during that time. My wife has the bulk of free time and would still retain it. Her breaks aren’t changing at all. So, I am not sure how I am “leaving the childcare to her.” I also pay her as a sahm, since I consider that to be fair, as childcare is work.

If my girlfriend works roughly the same hours as me, she’ll be with me and my daughter when I am, probably not including lunch as that may be unrealistic. After my daughter goes to bed, there is no schedule.

Did none of you raise an infant from the beginning of the pandemic? What childcare was available and safe? The two of us have been watching her by ourselves. Date nights without a child? It doesn’t happen. We still go out as a family and that doesn’t change.

My girlfriend’s apartment would be in the downstairs adu. So, she’s in an apartment within the same house.

Ah okay. So those are not actually date nights with Wife, but family day and nights.

How will your week nights look like? Wife going to watch the child when you are having a date nights with Girlfriend and vice versa?

Girlfriend has now you+her time. So she will have to adjust to YOUR family life with dates+child? Or will you have some designated time in a week to see her alone? It will be a huge shift.

Date nights for me mean date nights without a child and a nanny on duty, yes. My attention will be for my partner only. You're really underestimating the fast logistics of this while in NRE.

 

[azurebonds]

Ah okay. So those are not actually date nights with Wife, but family day and nights.

How will your week nights look like? Wife going to watch the child when you are having a date nights with Girlfriend and vice versa?

Girlfriend has now you+her time. So she will have to adjust to YOUR family life with dates+child? Or will you have some designated time in a week to see her alone? It will be a huge shift.

Date nights for me mean date nights without a child and a nanny on duty, yes. My attention will be for my partner only. You're really underestimating the fast logistics of this while in NRE.

Even if I concede NRE, I am not sure why this is considered fast. I am developing a plan over ten months, continuously seeking feedback from online sources and discussing daily with both partners. Every time one of you asks an unconsidered question, I adapt my plan to meet the concerns. So, it’s not that I have all the answers, it’s that feedback and questioning helps me refine my stance.

I cannot know how either partner will react to the presence of the other living there until that happens. I can know what time slots are currently available based upon the existing schedule.

My girlfriend knows that my daughter comes first. She knows that to be with me is to be with her. The being said, it would be entirely unreasonable for me to put my girlfriend into a parental role just because she’s living here. If she ultimately wants to be an active part of childcare, that’s a different story. For now, she’ll be my plus one on my outings with my daughter and get any available free time that doesn’t harm my existing relationship.

 

[LaminarFlow]

Even if I concede NRE, I am not sure why this is considered fast. I am developing a plan over ten months, continuously seeking feedback from online sources and discussing daily with both partners. Every time one of you asks an unconsidered question, I adapt my plan to meet the concerns. So, it’s not that I have all the answers, it’s that feedback and questioning helps me refine my stance.

I do not not think anyone here wants to be inconsiderate, but I can only speak for myself and definitely would like to be thorough. You are asking our opinion about dynamics and structure, so we will be asking what your thoughts are or situation is likely going to be, otherwise we cannot be of help. You might collide into things with certain structures, especially when ones dynamics is already rooted and established.

My girlfriend knows that my daughter comes first. She knows that to be with me is to be with her. The being said, it would be entirely unreasonable for me to put my girlfriend into a parental role just because she’s living here. If she ultimately wants to be an active part of childcare, that’s a different story. For now, she’ll be my plus one on my outings with my daughter and get any available free time that doesn’t harm my existing relationship.

This makes things more clear.

 

[Inaniel]

Hierarchy is an ongoing conversation in the poly community. I think people get confused, (as I did myself) because hierarchy is automatically looked at in a negative light. There are some types of poly arrangements that are more suited to having non-hierarchical structures than others.

What you are proposing doesn't qualify as non-hierarchical and I will explain why.

You are a wealthy married man with a child. Your wife owns more than half of your worth. That is power and influence that your girlfriend will simply not have. You can ignore that fact, and your wife may not exercise that power. But it is reality, it will be in the minds of all involved and to pretend it is not there will prevent you from understanding what is actually important, which is:

You need to figure out what makes each person feel empowered and safe. And if you're a savvy hinge, YOU will ensure those needs are being satisfied and safeguarded.

I cannot tell you what those needs are going to be; in fact, no one probably knows this early in the dynamic. There is a lot of growth and discovery on the road to a successful kitchen table arrangement.

My general advice based on my own experience and themes I have seen repeated here on the forums goes something like this:

I think it's important for everyone to have at least one space over which they have full autonomy. For example, if the wife is decorating the renovated space where the girlfriend is living, that can lead to problems.

I don't know how old your kid is, but kids can be suspicious of new people hanging around the house. A child may see the new partner as a third wheel and miss the mommy/daddy time of the good old days.

If your girlfriend is now hanging with you and the child, she is now co-parenting. There's zero chance three adults all have identical ideas about parenting. This will be something you have to navigate if the relationships succeed.

Kids also talk to anyone who will listen: friends, family, school counselors, friends' parents, etc. This kitchen table arrangement will not be easily concealed. Start thinking now about being out of the closet, because if this progresses, you may lose your ability to be known as a "normal" family in your community. That affects everyone, and every single person may feel the brunt of that reality in a different way.

Speaking of being out of the closet: people aren't stupid. When you move a woman into the guest house and spend any amount of time with her, people will know you're fucking, even if they don't know your poly. I hope you have already considered this and accept this as reality, but in the event you are in denial about it, I am happy to clear that up for you.

I think the wife and girlfriend should meet well before move-in day. Consider renting a big Airbnb in the mountains somewhere and all sharing a space together. When you move-in your girlfriend, legally you have to evict her if things don't work out. That could be 30 days or more of hell, so risk management dictates going into this with some assurances that everyone can get along in a shared space.

I'm not going to sugar coat it. Moving the girlfriend downstairs isn't "dreaming" of kitchen table; it's "forcing" kitchen table. It could come back to bite you in the ass. I get that you want to be close to your girlfriend; but you can be close in proximity without being close-enough for your wife to hear you both fucking.

If you were otherwise single and moving a new gf into your apartment within a years time, I would agree that is not "considered" fast. But here is where your conflating what is "normal" in monogamy with what is "normal" in polyamory...

Let me ask you this. In monogamy, at what point is it "considered" too fast for a married man to move his new girlfriend into the home he shares with his wife? There is no suitable answer because there is no mono-normative context in which it makes sense. So what exactly is influencing your concept of moving fast or slow? Because I can tell that a community full of people who have done this before bear no influence on your concept of how fast this should be moving, so I'm curious what your reference group is here?

Those of us who have been around for a while have watched marriages destroyed by a strong-headed partner pulling a reluctant partner through the trenches. Please understand that this experiment could end your marriage. The advice you are receiving only attempts to reduce those risk factors; we are not trying to spoil your fun.

 

[azurebonds]

Hierarchy is an ongoing conversation in the poly community. I think people get confused, (as I did myself) because hierarchy is automatically looked at in a negative light. There are some types of poly arrangements that are more suited to having non-hierarchical structures than others.

What you are proposing doesn't qualify as non-hierarchical and I will explain why.

You are a wealthy married man with a child. Your wife owns more than half of your worth. That is power and influence that your girlfriend will simply not have. You can ignore that fact, and your wife may not exercise that power. But it is reality, it will be in the minds of all involved and to pretend it is not there will prevent you from understanding what is actually important, which is:

You need to figure out what makes each person feel empowered and safe. And if you're a savvy hinge, YOU will ensure those needs are being satisfied and safeguarded.

I cannot tell you what those needs are going to be; in fact, no one probably knows this early in the dynamic. There is a lot of growth and discovery on the road to a successful kitchen table arrangement.

My general advice based on my own experience and themes I have seen repeated here on the forums goes something like this:

I think it's important for everyone to have at least one space over which they have full autonomy. For example, if the wife is decorating the renovated space where the girlfriend is living, that can lead to problems.

I don't know how old your kid is, but kids can be suspicious of new people hanging around the house. A child may see the new partner as a third wheel and miss the mommy/daddy time of the good old days.

If your girlfriend is now hanging with you and the child, she is now co-parenting. There's zero chance three adults all have identical ideas about parenting. This will be something you have to navigate if the relationships succeed.

Kids also talk to anyone who will listen: friends, family, school counselors, friends' parents, etc. This kitchen table arrangement will not be easily concealed. Start thinking now about being out of the closet, because if this progresses, you may lose your ability to be known as a "normal" family in your community. That affects everyone, and every single person may feel the brunt of that reality in a different way.

Speaking of being out of the closet: people aren't stupid. When you move a woman into the guest house and spend any amount of time with her, people will know you're fucking, even if they don't know your poly. I hope you have already considered this and accept this as reality, but in the event you are in denial about it, I am happy to clear that up for you.

I think the wife and girlfriend should meet well before move-in day. Consider renting a big Airbnb in the mountains somewhere and all sharing a space together. When you move-in your girlfriend, legally you have to evict her if things don't work out. That could be 30 days or more of hell, so risk management dictates going into this with some assurances that everyone can get along in a shared space.

I'm not going to sugar coat it. Moving the girlfriend downstairs isn't "dreaming" of kitchen table; it's "forcing" kitchen table. It could come back to bite you in the ass. I get that you want to be close to your girlfriend; but you can be close in proximity without being close-enough for your wife to hear you both fucking.

If you were otherwise single and moving a new gf into your apartment within a years time, I would agree that is not "considered" fast. But here is where your conflating what is "normal" in monogamy with what is "normal" in polyamory...

Let me ask you this. In monogamy, at what point is it "considered" too fast for a married man to move his new girlfriend into the home he shares with his wife? There is no suitable answer because there is no mono-normative context in which it makes sense. So what exactly is influencing your concept of moving fast or slow? Because I can tell that a community full of people who have done this before bear no influence on your concept of how fast this should be moving, so I'm curious what your reference group is here?

Those of us who have been around for a while have watched marriages destroyed by a strong-headed partner pulling a reluctant partner through the trenches. Please understand that this experiment could end your marriage. The advice you are receiving only attempts to reduce those risk factors; we are not trying to spoil your fun.

Thank you. This response raises a lot of points that I haven’t thought of yet.

You are right that my wife would have economic power. I am not sure to what extent, as I have neither combined accounts nor bought any asset without both our names on it. I can, however, acknowledge that she’ll have far more than my girlfriend.

In terms of space, I gave up my space in the top two floors in exchange for her bottom. The bottom has had its locks changed. I was thinking of sound proofing that floor. I retain my office and the front porch.

My girlfriend will have her own kitchen, living room, bedroom, laundry room, porch and separate entrance.

This may be telling on myself a bit, but my daughter calls her her aunt. To neighbors, her aunt is just a friend we are helping out. I have a prepared backstory. Will it come out at some point? Sure, but that’s why I try to look ahead. And if doubt, speak with confidence. lol

The question of how to legally structure this needs to be solved before she moves in. Ideally, I’d want to avoid a rental agreement if there are alternatives. The problem with that from past experience is that it alters the dynamics between us. I become her landlord. So, I may need to see a lawyer.

I am going to continue answering on another comment after giving the rest of that some thought.

 

[azurebonds]

Hierarchy is an ongoing conversation in the poly community. I think people get confused, (as I did myself) because hierarchy is automatically looked at in a negative light. There are some types of poly arrangements that are more suited to having non-hierarchical structures than others.

What you are proposing doesn't qualify as non-hierarchical and I will explain why.

You are a wealthy married man with a child. Your wife owns more than half of your worth. That is power and influence that your girlfriend will simply not have. You can ignore that fact, and your wife may not exercise that power. But it is reality, it will be in the minds of all involved and to pretend it is not there will prevent you from understanding what is actually important, which is:

You need to figure out what makes each person feel empowered and safe. And if you're a savvy hinge, YOU will ensure those needs are being satisfied and safeguarded.

I cannot tell you what those needs are going to be; in fact, no one probably knows this early in the dynamic. There is a lot of growth and discovery on the road to a successful kitchen table arrangement.

My general advice based on my own experience and themes I have seen repeated here on the forums goes something like this:

I think it's important for everyone to have at least one space over which they have full autonomy. For example, if the wife is decorating the renovated space where the girlfriend is living, that can lead to problems.

I don't know how old your kid is, but kids can be suspicious of new people hanging around the house. A child may see the new partner as a third wheel and miss the mommy/daddy time of the good old days.

If your girlfriend is now hanging with you and the child, she is now co-parenting. There's zero chance three adults all have identical ideas about parenting. This will be something you have to navigate if the relationships succeed.

Kids also talk to anyone who will listen: friends, family, school counselors, friends' parents, etc. This kitchen table arrangement will not be easily concealed. Start thinking now about being out of the closet, because if this progresses, you may lose your ability to be known as a "normal" family in your community. That affects everyone, and every single person may feel the brunt of that reality in a different way.

Speaking of being out of the closet: people aren't stupid. When you move a woman into the guest house and spend any amount of time with her, people will know you're fucking, even if they don't know your poly. I hope you have already considered this and accept this as reality, but in the event you are in denial about it, I am happy to clear that up for you.

I think the wife and girlfriend should meet well before move-in day. Consider renting a big Airbnb in the mountains somewhere and all sharing a space together. When you move-in your girlfriend, legally you have to evict her if things don't work out. That could be 30 days or more of hell, so risk management dictates going into this with some assurances that everyone can get along in a shared space.

I'm not going to sugar coat it. Moving the girlfriend downstairs isn't "dreaming" of kitchen table; it's "forcing" kitchen table. It could come back to bite you in the ass. I get that you want to be close to your girlfriend; but you can be close in proximity without being close-enough for your wife to hear you both fucking.

If you were otherwise single and moving a new gf into your apartment within a years time, I would agree that is not "considered" fast. But here is where your conflating what is "normal" in monogamy with what is "normal" in polyamory...

Let me ask you this. In monogamy, at what point is it "considered" too fast for a married man to move his new girlfriend into the home he shares with his wife? There is no suitable answer because there is no mono-normative context in which it makes sense. So what exactly is influencing your concept of moving fast or slow? Because I can tell that a community full of people who have done this before bear no influence on your concept of how fast this should be moving, so I'm curious what your reference group is here?

Those of us who have been around for a while have watched marriages destroyed by a strong-headed partner pulling a reluctant partner through the trenches. Please understand that this experiment could end your marriage. The advice you are receiving only attempts to reduce those risk factors; we are not trying to spoil your fun.

The concept that “normal” or best practice in monogamy may not correspond to those in polyamory is interesting. Fair enough, I will concede* that one. Where am I going wrong?

The fear of divorce is likely causing my anxiety and focus around this issue. I have had many conversations to try to gauge where everyone is.

My wife has indicated to me that she just wants me happy and she doesn’t want to change her lifestyle at all materially.

My girlfriend says, “She just wants me.” No doubt there is some influence of her connecting with an eccentric, romantic millionaire that flies off to make passionate love to her whenever she’s sad. Especially, one she met online while working her day job, which apparently is boring.

*I am trying to find the truth by making logical arguments. not ‘arguing.’ I am just seeing what is most convincing to me. So far, I am wherever you and Bobbi intersect.

 

[azurebonds]

The concept that “normal” or best practice in monogamy may not correspond to those in polyamory is interesting. Fair enough, I will concede* that one. Where am I going wrong?

The fear of divorce is likely causing my anxiety and focus around this issue. I have had many conversations to try to gauge where everyone is.

My wife has indicated to me that she just wants me happy and she doesn’t want to change her lifestyle at all materially.

My girlfriend says, “She just wants me.” No doubt there is some influence of her connecting with an eccentric, romantic millionaire that flies off to make passionate love to her whenever she’s sad. Especially, one she met online while working her day job, which apparently is boring.

*I am trying to find the truth by making logical arguments. not ‘arguing.’ I am just seeing what is most convincing to me. So far, I am wherever you and Bobbi intersect.

The flight thing did happen with my wife’s consent. It, however, was a full blown manic episode if I had to guess. Either way, I am glad it happened.

Perhaps it is NRE, but we both feel extremely connected to each other and have similar backgrounds. She experienced more severe poverty than me, but I can relate to her background. We also seem to be in sync mentally and can always carry a conversation.

There is little I can do about a wealth gap other than be aware of it and try to mitigate it.

 

[GalaGirl]

I would love a kitchen table arrangement where we’re all friends, but I am not going to force the issue. If it develops, great; if not, then it is what it is.

So why move the GF into the downstairs flat? It's good it is a flat of its own, but still, she's moving cross-country to move into your house How about her own flat elsewhere first, rather than in your building? Having some SPACE?

My girlfriend understands that she’s coming into an established relationship and says that she wants to avoid drama.

She is NOT "coming into an established relationship."

There used to be

• you + wife

Now there is

• you + wife
• you + GF
• wife + GF -- not dating each other, but how they get along as neighbors if GF lives in the downstairs flat next year. How they get along as metamours -- hopefully at least they can do "basic polite." And how involved GF is with the kid -- you seem to dream about a step-parent sort of role, when neither wife nor GF may be into that.

They haven’t met yet. I have been flying monthly to see my girlfriend. We actually met online by accident. I have planned a trip later this year for them to meet.

Why's it got to be a trip? Isn't a short video call enough at this stage? It's only been 2 months of dating the GF. Neither wife or GF may want to bother until it's been 6+ months of dating first.

I would love a kitchen table arrangement where we’re all friends, but I am not going to force the issue. If it develops, great; if not, then it is what it is.

Moving her into the downstairs flat may be handy for you so you don't have to go far, but it's IS kind of forcing KTP because of such close proximity.

There IS a hierarchy here, whether you like it or not, because...

• You are married to wife
• You and wife are raising a small child
• You and wife have more wealth than GF does
• GF would be your tenant if she moves into the downstairs flat, where she would be "just GF" if she moved into a nearby apartment complex with a different landlord.

It's fine to be "working toward co-primary" over time, but you and GF haven't been together very long. She's giving up a lot for a cross-country move in April 2025. If things don't pan out and you and she break up, then what? Is she left high and dry? Have you two talked that out?

I have also moved 33 times. So, it’s old hat for me. I am just trying to make her cross country move simple. I have it down to a science at this point. Also, why move older furniture or unsentimental items? Moves should eliminate excess, imo.

Moving might be "old hat" to YOU. And you aren't attached to older furniture and things. But you are NOT your GF. And this moving experience may play out differently for her.

Even if it's not "efficient," and even if "costs more money" or "takes more time," you might think about letting her do her OWN arrangements so the emotional boundaries are better preserved.

She's thinking about becoming semi-dependent and dating her future landlord across the country, away from her life, people, friends, community where she currently lives. That's an odd dynamic and really going out on a limb.

I think you might be overlooking that in your enthusiasms.

You seem to enjoy planning things out in detail, but how does that affect others? Is it going to be like "Why am I even at this meeting? My ideas and voice don't matter, Azure has it all figured out and is all systems go."

Are you a good listener? Do you pick up on subtleties?

Right now, I am planning the move, helping to inventory and reduce her possessions, remodeling and furnishing her new space, keeping a high level of communication to address any concerns that arise, guiding her through debt elimination, keeping her on track for her GED, planning my and her visits till the move, and attempting to do all this with minimal budget impact. I’m now looking into relationship dynamics.

I find all that a lot for 2 months of dating and really intrusive. Some people want/welcome that though, because they want someone else to swoop in and do all the things for them so they don't have to. They want some kind of "dream rescue."

If that's to you and GF's pleasure? Have at it. But tread with caution. All that glitters isn't gold.

Even if wife is okay with your approach/style, is she going to look down her nose at the new downstairs neighbor? Like GF is your little pet project, you are Higgins and GF's your Eliza Doolittle? Or maybe wife is just fine, but your GF is feeling weird, like she's the Eliza. That can make for weird meta relationships and a weird relationship with you. Have you talked all that out?

This is a lot, but it’s a normal level of thought/activity for me. They both know that I am “intense.” I also admittedly can be a bit of a whirlwind.

It seems wife is used to that, since she's been around with you a few years.

GF is only at 2 months. I hope she's not using you for a meal ticket or whatever. I don't say that to be mean, just general caution. You seem DEEP in NRE, and coupled with your natural intensity, you might be a little "love blind" right now.

Maybe it goes the other way. Because you have money and power, GF doesn't, she might be overwhelmed and going all "meek and mild" because she's intimidated and does need help in her life. So she doesn't set and enforce good boundaries and tell you "No" because she needs the help, but doesn't want this whooshy. And then you, with your "take-over" energy and your NRE/lovestruck feelings, might be running right over her without meaning to, because she's too meek and mild to stand up to you, and maybe you don't pick up on subtle communication.

It's like WHOOOSH just reading your posts. So I hope you aren't over-inundating your GF with your NRE enthusiasms.

Because it's your first poly relationship and also the first for wife and GF? Slow your roll some.

There is pleasure to be had at the slow unfolding of a thing. It doesn't have to be this fast.

There is plenty of time to chat without being a time thief, and ‘time spent’ is not a relevant measure for me.

Well... Are you the only one in the polyship or household? It's not relevant to YOU... but does "time spent" matter to wife, GF or child?

You seem to come at things with an intense "tunnel vision." You seem somewhat aware of that and your intensity. But tread with caution so this "tunnel-vision intensity" thing doesn't bite you in the ass later.

I only have sex with people that I am in love with. My wife and girlfriend are the same. So, we haven’t really felt the need to explore beyond the current setup. Both of them say that I am enough for them. I have no compelling reason to change what I am doing right now either. So, by agreement, we are practicing polyfidelity. This is the first time any of us have explored beyond a single person.

I wouldn't be promising you polyfidelity at 2 months of dating if I was your GF. I'd also be asking you things:

"Say I move into the downstairs flat, and you are now my dating partner/landlord. Are you going to be okay with my having my other poly dates coming in and out of my flat downstairs, or are you going to get weird about it? Is it better for me to live in a flat that is NOT attached to your house the first 2 years, then move into the downstairs flat after we got used to locally dating each other? Do we need more stepping stones in this process?"

"Your kid-- I like kids and all. I don't mind some of our dates including the kid, because that's the nature of dating a parent with a young child. But are we going to have alone time WITHOUT the kid? You don't expect me to coparent, right? Because I'm not gonna. And no, I will not be called "Auntie Galagirl" or "Mama Galagirl" or anything like that. I'm not this kid's relative. I can be called "Ms Galagirl," like a neighbor or family friend. I don't want your wife or you kid acting like they can just come in and out of my flat downstairs. I don't want YOU coming in and out of my flat downstairs willy nilly either. You might be the landlord, but this is no longer your flat/home when occupied with a tenant. You can't just come in here."

"This landlord contract -- I want one and before I sign I want to run it by some people."

"This GRE loan/gift and all that -- I appreciate your help. But I want a contract, and before I sign I want to run it by some people."

"I don't want to be second fiddle or literally a 'kept mistress.' How are we doing to deal with all that?"

But I'm not a newbie. Your GF is. So are you. And maybe neither thinks to ask those kinds of things so that emotional boundaries, physical boundaries, and other personal boundaries can be well articulated, in place, and everyone can feel safe enough participating here in this polyamorous network.

Reread Inaniel's post again.

Galagirl

 

[GalaGirl]

Both agree that there needs to be a fair sleeping arrangement schedule, but I am not sure how that’s going to play out.

Do you have your own bedroom in the house with wife? You could start using it if it eventually is going to be something like...

• 2 days wife "hosts" you in her room, or you "host" her in yours.
• 2 days GF "hosts" you in the downstairs flat. (Go sleep downstairs even if GF isn't there yet.)
• 2 days you sleep alone in your room.
• 1 day for family. Because the kid is young, maybe that's a living room/sleeping bag/pizza/movie family thing.

Maybe it isn't that, but some other pattern, like, you spend a week upstairs, you spend a week downstairs.

There are only 7 days in the week. People need sleep. You have to figure out what works in this group of people. There is no one answer that suits all.

All of you could read poly hell. Then you and wife talk about how to reduce it in the (wife + you) dyad. And you and GF talk about how to reduce it in the (GF + you) dyad.

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for

www.kathylabriola.com

Galagirl

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I'm going to say it bluntly. You sound irrational to the point of mental illness and the girlfriend seems like she is similarly afflicted but perhaps by youth, trauma or plain naivety. If I was your wife, I'd say okay have six months with a psychiatrist and other mental health professionals speaking about this and other things, and then we will consider it.

 

[Evie]

I don't believe this is an irrational situation at all. Also, GF has previously been established as not a young person.

There is a reasonable timeline in place (a year). And plenty of time for any party involved to change their minds. Right now it's not much more than a brainstorming session, not set in concrete. Even better, Azure is here, running this brainstorming past us and clearly adjusting some of his thinking as things are brought up. I've been watching this and the previous thread unfold and I can see the progression in laying aside some misconceptions. I give him props for that.

Each of us have things they would and wouldn't want out of being any of the people in this situation.

Azure, would your wife and gf be willing to join in this conversation through making their own accounts?

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

@Evie, he's been seeing her for two months. He's spent most of those two months planning how to finance her life and move her in. He's frenzied and manic. If it was a year plus of normal dating with no big plans, and then they spent a year making it happen, different story. This is crazy talk from someone who hasn't got a grip and I'm done seeing the lives of wives and kids blown apart by a man who essentially needs mental health support. Not more girlfriends.

 

[azureGF]

Hey all, I'm the GF. Azure asked me to take a look at this thread and maybe give my perspective and add some much-needed clarity here.

The main glaring issues to most commenters here seem to be the short timeframe of events, and the financial disparity between us. So I'll get into those first.

At the time we met, we were both acutely lonely for various reasons. Not gonna get into his business here, I'll just say that he has a lot of time to himself or just him and his child. I had been single for 6 years or so at that point, due to needing to take some time to myself to recover from an abusive relationship and various other lingering problems that had been holding me back. We had both been actively seeking new friends and working hard on bettering ourselves mentally at the time we met each other. It seemed like the timing couldn't have been better.

So we connected fast. We have very similar personalities and interests, and things immediately felt very open and honest in a way that neither of us have ever actually felt before. Nothing about our communication ever feels forced or ingenuine. The silences are comfortable, and if they're not - something is wrong and we get it out into the light and discuss it.

We talk all day, more or less. We stay in communication. His job has downtime and my job has even more than his, so we certainly have the time. Our mental connection is the foundation of everything. We shared our entire life stories within 2 weeks. We were best friends within a month. We connect perfectly online and in person. So to us, this all feels very reasonable that we should want to plan now and prepare for the future we both know we want. It feels like the most natural thing in the world.

He's mentioned a bit about his psych issues here. I'm neurotypical. I do not consider this any sort of shared delusion or purely NRE. I know the NRE is real, this ain't my first rodeo. But there's something very real here too. We're both emotionally intelligent adults and we recognize and discuss all of this. We discuss every angle of everything, even the ugly ones. This is all being very carefully planned and considered by both of us, believe me. I understand the stakes for both of us very well.

As far as the money goes, it's as much of a non-issue for me as it can be. We didn't have The Money Talk until a week after we started dating. I told him then that I wouldn't give a damn if he worked at Burger King, and I meant it. I know that's an easy thing to say. I stand by it regardless. He has given me $0 during our relationship. I have a career path in mind for after the move, and I fully intend to support myself. I am a very independent person by nature. I've been on my own for years. I have no desire to be "kept", and he understands and loves that about me.

Don't want to go much longer here since it's turning into a novella but I'll go into a few more issues.

The living situation we have planned is 100% my preference as well as his. He owns a duplex and I will have my own seperate apartment below theirs, so my space will be mine. I have no interest in moving cross country to live in a seperate building than my partner, I want to be close to him and that seems very reasonable to us.

There is no drama from my end towards his wife. We've chatted a bit online but haven't met in person yet. We have some common interests and it seems like a friendship could eventually develop. I'm open to that, but can't speak for her of course.

As far as him doing all this complex planning goes, that really is just how his brain works. He's constantly in problem-solving mode and thrives on finding solutions. Once we realized this was the real deal, and things were discussed and worked through with his wife, we started discussing logistics. This seemed perfectly reasonable to both of us as well.

I'm sure there are things I missed, but hopefully this all helps to explain where I'm coming from here and adds some context for you guys. Happy to answer questions if you have any!

 

[kdt26417]

Hello azureGF,

I just wanted to say welcome to the forum, I'm glad you could join us. It sounds like the three of you are being reasonably cautious under the circumstances, I have no problem with that part. Keep reading and posting, and keep us up-to-date on your evolving situation. Good luck!

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Bobbi]

*I am trying to find the truth by making logical arguments. not ‘arguing.’ I am just seeing what is most convincing to me.

You can do this all you want, but be prepared for NONE of the pre-planning and pre-thinking to be much help when things take a U turn, which they invariably will. Both my partner and I learned everything there was to learn, read all the books and binged podcasts and had it all figured out-- what I wanted, what I didn't want, how I would treat other relationships. But it all changed... again and again as I actually lived it. You cannot pre-think it out. You need to become a master of working on it on the fly. The only thing that hasn't changed is how I treat others and how I expect to be treated if someone wants to be in a relationship with me. Know what you want, but be open to change and ready to work through bumps on the fly.

Perhaps it is NRE, but we both feel extremely connected to each other and have similar backgrounds. She experienced more severe poverty than me, but I can relate to her background. We also seem to be in sync mentally and can always carry a conversation.

It is NRE. Accept it. You two are strangers. I don't mean that you know nothing about each other, but you have no life experience together. You may have a ton in common and sparks to back it up, but you need to be in each other's daily life for some time to see ALL of it. This isn't a bad thing, nor is NRE. Just be aware of it and know it for what it is. Pretending it isn't there does you a disservice. Having your eyes open helps you see more clearly. Dismissing it and ignoring it will cause you to be blind and not see things that would be obvious to outsiders because you have love blindness. The sooner you can see issues or problems, the quicker you can address them and hopefully have a successful relationship.

To be clear, we all want you to have success! It may seem like we are all trying to rain on your parade, but the more you know and the more you see, the better your chances of success.