How I View Sex

[Vajra]

How I view sex;

I see wanting or asking for sex as putting a burden on the person you are wanting sex with. Masturbation is a one man thing. You are not putting a burden on anyone else. So, it is a good thing. To desire or want or ask for sex, you are putting another person in a place of having to decide if they want sex with you or not, and to have to decide what they will allow. Debbie, on the other hand, says that asking for sex is giving the other person the ability to please you, to say yes, to love you. Although, that also gives the person you are asking the opportunity to say no. And that can be tough to hear.

When you ask for sex, the other person often feels that they will have to do for you. And I do not feel that is right to ask of anyone. When I have thought of asking for sex, I have realized that I would want oral. And asking another person to give you oral is asking a lot. What do they get out of it? I know I love giving oral, to men especially. I love how their cocks feel in my mouth, how I can make them feel, how it feels when they are ready to ejaculate. Debbie says she loves that as well, but she has never stayed down on me as long as she does with other men. So, I know she loves sucking cock, but not mine as much as she does others.

For a woman to allow a man to enter her, she has to allow it, hopefully. And when she does allow a man to have intercourse with her, she has to do things physically demanding, even if she just lies there. Although I enjoy being a bottom for other men, I find it hard to accept that Debbie can/does feel that way with me. Debbie says that although I am small, she enjoys intercourse with me, yet she doesn’t like it to last very long. With Davison, Debbie likes their love making to last for hours, and it usually does.

When I have seen Debbie intimate with other men, she has a shine about her, and a smile a mile wide. She truly enjoys sex with other men. And I love seeing her smile and watching her orgasm with other men. I actually hate the feeling of ejaculating. When I was married to my first wife, when ever I ejaculated, when we did have sex, that was it. Sex was over. So, I wanted it to last as long as possible. It was with my first wife that I learned that women don’t like men to last very long during intercourse. I also learned that women do like men who have a lot of stamina. And that the length of time a woman enjoys a man is man and instance related.

My ex told me recently that she would have loved to have sex with me more often when we were married, but she hated the fact that I always apologized after I came. And that was why she hated sex with me. Debbie has told me that she hates seeing my facial expressions when I ejaculate because she can see it in my face that I am not enjoying the experience. Debbie has said that is why she enjoys sex with other men, because they enjoy the entire sexual experience, even ejaculating in her, sometimes more than once.

I love that other men ejaculate inside of Debbie, and men did so with my ex, but to do so myself feels wrong. To even bring up sex feels wrong to me. I try not to talk about sex around Debbie. She brings it up often, though. My entore life people have told me that I think to often about sex. The problem with that is that when I do think about sex, I am not the one having it or wanting it. When I think of sex, I think of Debbie with other men. I have studied sex and everything related to sex my whole life. I have even studies Tantra. I am well versed, sexually, but through reading and watching, not by doing.

Tantra teaches to go into sex totally. I can’t do that. I can if I am being a bottom for another man, but not as a top. I enjoy watching other people have sex. And I know that a lot of people enjoy sex. I even enjoy sex when I am with another man and he is on top. The thing is that I do not and never have enjoyed sex when I was a top, with men or women. I feel guilty for wanting sex. I always have. Luckily when I have had sex with men, they wanted it as bad as I did. So, there was less guilt.

When Debbie has been with other men and she has asked me to let her suck me when they are in her, I have declined because I didn’t feel I was worthy. I also felt that me being involved would detract from her enjoyment of the other man or other men. Debbie has told me that she wished that I would be, or had been, more involved when she was with other men, and I wasn’t. I think a lot of my guilt feelings are from y Christian upbringing, even though I am not religious. I also think my feelings of guilt are associated with my feelings of not deserving sex.

I am very good at what I do, professionally. Yet, in my relationships, I have always felt that other men were better, and were more deserving of sex than I am or was. My mother was very coddling when I was growing up. She was also very demanding and very DOM. I think that is why I see women as so much more deserving of submission.

I am going to therapy, as is Debbie and Davison. Yet, I feel I have the most to work on. I have a lot of guilt related to sex, yet it is something I want Debbie to do more of, just not with me. Many people enjoy sex and intimacy, and even more people wish they had just some sex or intimacy in their life. And me? I do my best to avoid intimacy and sex. Why? I just don’t feel right wanting sex. It feels wrong to me. Yet, I ask Debbie to have sex with other men. I will admit that because Debbie is a very sexual person that she does so without me asking, yet, I often find myself wanting her to have sex with others more often. Even that feels wrong to me. Why? Because by asking her to have sex with others is asking her to do something for me.

My ex told me that I made her feel useless. When I wanted coffee and she would offer to get it for me, I would get it myself. When I wanted sex, instead of asking for sex I masturbated. When I wanted clothes washed, instead of asking my ex to do laundry while I was on the road, when I was driving for a living, I took my clothes with me and washed them myself. Even Debbie has had the same complaint, that I let her please other men, especially sexually, but I don’t give her the same opportunity to do so with me.

I don’t feel that I am as important as other people are, and I always put myself last or take myself out of the equation entirely. And the last one is the one Debbie hates the most.

Have I tried to be more aggressive or made he first move? Sure, and each time I felt sick doing so. Why? Because it was wrong.

I love sex, just not doing it. I love Debbie, but I feel that other men deserve her more than I do. I know I can provide for Debbie financially, and I have done so quite well. But that is not something anyone other man couldn’t do. I can please Debbie, sexually as well. She says I am the best she has had, but I have heard her tell other men the same thing. So, what am I to believe?

I love sex, and anything sexually related, but I also feel that me thinking about and wanting sex is wrong. I know I can’t be the only person who has ever felt this way. Or am I?

 

[Candiedlove]

"It was with my first wife that I learned that women don’t like men to last very long during intercourse."

Umm, yes they do! For one, some women need a lot of stimulation to be satisfied. For two, how else can you have a proper MFF threesome (or foursome, or...)? He has to last long enough to satisfy multiple women.

Well, for those women like myself, that is. I suppose you could add more more guys, but I am more attracted to women and prefer that it is me, him, and another woman. Or, sometimes, a threesome with me and another M/F couple (although, again, I'd rather a FFF situation if it wasn't my partner or a couple that I was very close to).

 

[bassman]

Not all men are finished when we come. After a short break it is possible to to get going again. But I think there is a general assumption that the man is finished once he has unloaded.

 

[Bluebird]

For me, the longer the session, the more I enjoy it. If you're a 5 minute man, I'd rather not bother. Being multi-orgasmic, the longer my partners last, the more times I get to cum.

 

[KC43]

When I was married to my ex-husband, I hated it when sex lasted longer than a few minutes.

That was because of my own issues about sex (I won't go into details; suffice it to say things were done to me when I was young, and my parents raised me with a very unhealthy, negative view of sex), but it was also because he was abusive and physically repulsive. Sex with him was a matter of "You're my wife, you have to do this, you can't enjoy it but you'd better pretend to so I can feel like a man." And yes...those were his exact words on more than one occasion.

During that marriage, sex was complete torture, something I endured only because refusing was worse. So I couldn't tolerate it for more than a few minutes.

If we're taking "Vajra" at face value, it's possible that his ex-wife had either reasons for viewing sex negatively, or reasons for disliking sex with him *specifically*, that caused her to tell him she didn't like it when it lasted more than a few minutes. I didn't read his post as saying that this is true of all women; I read it as "I've been conditioned to believe this because of all the times my ex-wife said it and treated me badly when I asked for sex or lasted a while." He's identifying it as a belief that's been instilled in him that has affected *his* sexual desire and functioning, not necessarily saying that no woman ever likes it when intercourse lasts a long time.

And personally... I still prefer it when intercourse doesn't last a long time. I'd rather have an extended amount of foreplay, and if necessary afterplay, with just a few minutes of actual intercourse. Or more than one short round of intercourse rather than one long round. This is partly because for me, if I'm in the same position for too long, my muscles start to spasm and it becomes very painful (and then changing position becomes impossible because I can't move without pain), and partly because due to my history, I have a visceral reaction against being "trapped," and if I'm there with a guy's cock inside me, I'm trapped.

I'm multiorgasmic, but my partners generally get me off a few times before they fuck me, and then can come as quickly as they wish to. Or they fuck me for a few minutes, then take a break so I can move and stretch, then fuck me more.

 

[Emmy37]

For me sex is different depending on my partner. With men it's just bodies together. With women it's an emotional connection that is far beyond just two bodies together. I've had sex with many men in my lifetime because I do enjoy the way it feels but there is no emotional connection from sex with a man. I need to have the emotional connection built up in other ways in order for me to be emotionally connected and present with a man. I can have sex with a man, get up, get dressed, go home and not think of him again unless he has made the effort to get inside my head not just my body.

There have been very few women I've had sex with in my lifetime because it's such an intense emotional connection for me after sex with a woman. I'm not able to just have sex for the sake of having sex when it comes to women so I don't. That played a huge role in my early fears and insecurities with Sweet Lady. I was a wreck after the first time I had a sexual type of encounter with her because the emotional connection was so intense for me. I didn't know how to navigate that in my head. Her and I talked about it a lot. She let me come to her when I was ready for it to move any further than it had gone the first time. I was able to finally let her know I was ready after a couple of weeks. I had my own thoughts & feelings sorted out and was confident it was safe to open myself up emotionally for that connection with her.

When it comes down to just the physical feelings of sex I prefer women over men. When I married a man it was because I loved him for who he was and what he added to my life, not because of sex. I could just as easily have married a woman if I had found the right one before I met Bud.

 

[Dagferi]

With men it's just bodies together. With women it's an emotional connection that is far beyond just two bodies together.

I call BS on sex just being bodies together for men. I have known quite a few men who do not feel that way. I also call BS on women needing an emotional connectiion in sex.

I know many women who do not need any emotional connection to enjoy sex at all.

 

[Emmy37]

I call BS on sex just being bodies together for men. I have known quite a few men who do not feel that way. I also call BS on women needing an emotional connectiion in sex.

I know many women who do not need any emotional connection to enjoy sex at all.

You can call BS all you want on my feelings but they are my feelings not yours and I feel how I feel. I didn't say I thought that's how men felt. I said that's how I felt. How can you tell me that my own feelings are BS?

Notice in the first post I start it out with the words FOR ME

 

[A2Poly]

Emmy37 was, I think saying that when *she* has sex with men that it's just bodies together (ie, *she* has no emotional connection), not that when all men have sex *they-* have no emotional connection.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Emmy37?

 

[KC43]

I read it the same way as A2Poly... Emmy's speaking from *her own* experience of sex, not making a blanket generalization. *She* experiences sex with men as having no emotional connection; *she* needs an emotional connection; *she* experiences an intense emotional connection with other women that she doesn't have with men in sexual situations.

 

[LoveBunny]

I have similar sentiments to @Emmy. For me, I can have sex with a man without the sex creating as much of an emotional connection. However, I cannot seem to untangle sex/emotion with a woman. My sexual attraction to women occurs less frequently but with greater intensity, and as soon as we get physical I usually fall hard and fast.

I really think of sex as a form of communion. Some things please me which my partner might not love as much, other things please my partner but aren't that stimulating for me, and it is right to both give and accept pleasure.

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from OP):

"I love sex, and anything sexually related, but I also feel that me thinking about and wanting sex is wrong. I know I can't be the only person who has ever felt this way. Or am I?"

I was a tormented soul during my teen years. I thought it was base and evil to have sexual inclinations, yet I had those inclinations and I couldn't make them leave though I certainly tried.

For me, sex is both an emotional and a physical experience. But I know sex is extremely personal and that each individual experiences it in a different way.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

And personally... I still prefer it when intercourse doesn't last a long time. I'd rather have an extended amount of foreplay, and if necessary afterplay, with just a few minutes of actual intercourse. Or more than one short round of intercourse rather than one long round. ...due to my history, I have a visceral reaction against being "trapped," and if I'm there with a guy's cock inside me, I'm trapped.

I agree with this! I like sex, but the PIV part is something that I can only tolerate for a short while - and when I am really turned on. Dude and I are still figuring this out...(he likes long, soft and slow; I like short, hard and fast).

 

[DebbieandRay]

How I view sex;

I see wanting or asking for sex as putting a burden on the person you are wanting sex with.

I have had to deal with this for a long time, now. Ray will not make the first move. I always have to be the aggressor. I don't mind making the first move once in a while. And I like it when other men make the first move. With some men, Ray included, I like sex to last a while, but not too long, because I like sex throughout the day. Ray knows he can have me all day long, again and again, if he wants. The thing is, he doesn't think that way. He sees asking or wanting sex as a burden on me, when he sees that it isn't a burden for me, or for me with other men.

Ray has had it tough, sexually. And he has a lot of hang ups. I have tried to help him with these hang ups, but it has taken years, and I see this taking even more years, but I love him and I am willing to do what ever it takes to get him to where I know he was or can be.

 

[kdt26417]

How are things going with (Margaret) the counselor?

 

[DebbieandRay]

How are things going with (Margaret) the counselor?

When we (Me, Davison and Ray) last saw Margaret, she told us that she wanted to meet and talk with my son, my daughter and Ray's oldest son. She also would like to talk with Ray's daughter, his youngest son and his ex-wife. Margaret said that she felt that what we did affected everyone else, and that everyone should be involved in the counseling.

Margaret told us at our last session that she felt we had progressed, to a point. She also told us to look at each other (Me, Davison and Ray) as equal parts in our relationship.

I think that Margaret wants to see us as more a poly triad than anything else. And I think that could work.

 

[LovingRadiance]

I have similar sentiments to @Emmy. For me, I can have sex with a man without the sex creating as much of an emotional connection. However, I cannot seem to untangle sex/emotion with a woman. My sexual attraction to women occurs less frequently but with greater intensity, and as soon as we get physical I usually fall hard and fast.

I really think of sex as a form of communion. Some things please me which my partner might not love as much, other things please my partner but aren't that stimulating for me, and it is right to both give and accept pleasure.

I definitely feel this.
I can make an emotional connection with a man, with or without sex. But I can also have sex and not make a good connection-and I dont like it.

With a woman-its all wrapped up together and I fall fast and hard if not frequently.

 

[Dickdomin]

Creating heros/heroines

When my wife was dying, her friends wanted to come clean our house.

She wouldn't let them. She didn't want to be a bother.
I asked her if she liked helping other people, She said yes. It made her feel good

I asked her why she would want to STEAL and DENY a person that same chance.

Asking for anything is creating the opportunity.

What I get out of giving oral sex.
The chance to say "this is for you"
The chance to watch her cum

I am doing both of these things entirely for my own selfish reasons.
They made ME feel good.

Emily I agree sex is often more emotional for women.
You are biologically driven to pick the best
Men are using the drive of statics. If I fuck enough women odds are better I replicated my DNA

Since I have already done that (yes DNA tested and everything I recommend 23&me dot com), I am far more inclined now to be totally selfish.
I love to watch my lover orgasm without my efforts, hence other men and women.
I love to caress and snuggle
Sorry, I love chick flicks (how fucking kinky can a guy get)

When I train a woman to give deep throat, I tell her to tie the guy to a chair and explore her sensations, her pleasure. Over time she relates giving oral sex to her own pleasure. Your mouth has more nerve endings than cocks and pussies.

Now, I am being selfish because I love a great blowjob, but trust me it is five times better when she is moaning and climaxes, just because your cock is in her mouth.

Yeah, I know win win how fucking trite can you be.

 

[Dickdomin]

Helping people feel useless

I have even studies Tantra. I am well versed, sexually, but through reading and watching, not by doing.

Tantra teaches to go into sex totally. I can’t do that.

How good are you at ballet? Knitting? Painting?

Tantra teaches to Be in the Now sexually. Go be there. Go notice your guilt, your worthlessness and all the other BS some sold and you bought.

Don't fix it. Don't get over it. Just get it. Be in it

When Debbie has been with other men and she has asked me to let her suck me when they are in her, I have declined because I didn’t feel I was worthy.

My ex told me that I made her feel useless. When I wanted coffee and she would offer to get it for me, I would get it myself. When I wanted sex, instead of asking for sex I masturbated. When I wanted clothes washed, instead of asking my ex to do laundry while I was on the road, when I was driving for a living, I took my clothes with me and washed them myself. Even Debbie has had the same complaint, that I let her please other men, especially sexually, but I don’t give her the same opportunity to do so with me.

So you are really a self centered little prick. You don't give a fuck what your ex wife wanted anymore than you do Debbie now.

What they want and their feelings are just so much annoying shit.

"Hey! I'm busy feeling sorry for myself. I busy making sure my worthless construct is ship shape and ready for the market."

I don’t feel that I am as important as other people are, and I always put myself last or take myself out of the equation entirely. And the last one is the one Debbie hates the most.

Which is actually just putting yourself first. Fuck Debbie and what she wants. Fuck what other people say and want.

Ray is the most important thing. Ray "feeling he is not important" is far more important than anything and anyone.

"No, I don't want to play. I know you need me for the game, but... I fucking busy being unimportant."

Have I tried to be more aggressive or made he first move? Sure, and each time I felt sick doing so. Why? Because it was wrong.

Who told you it was wrong?
How do you know it wasn't just constipation, or being full of bullshit?

One day I had my wife tie me up and whip me. Now tantra, yoga, more fucking mind-altering state altering shit than any human should do, I've done them.

So for me standing there getting whipped is all about focus. It does not excite me blah blah

What my wife discovered is whipping me exhausted her, while being whipped made her full of energy. I used to whip her, fuck her and fall asleep.

She would jump out of bed like someone had given her a crystal meth enema.

Tantra is about being exactly where you are fully. It is not "oh well leave those bad thoughts in the other fucking room." Those thoughts are happening right then.

So what?

Debbie wants to suck your cock, let her suck it. Your fucking feelings, being worthless are worthless and should not be considered. Feel guilty, feel worthless, and feel any damned other thing you want to feel. But put your worthless cock in her mouth when she asks.

She should never have to ask twice.

I love sex, just not doing it. I love Debbie, but I feel that other men deserve her more than I do. I know I can provide for Debbie financially, and I have done so quite well. But that is not something anyone other man couldn’t do. I can please Debbie, sexually as well. She says I am the best she has had, but I have heard her tell other men the same thing. So, what am I to believe?

I have eaten about twenty different kinds if ice cream (not something I really like) and sometimes holy shit this is the best I've ever had. In that moment it is my experience. Same with women.

I hate fat women, but I had to mercy fuck my gf's fat friend who had a fucking gripper on her and came like gangbusters. OK I hate all the fat women in the world, except her. Jesus,I am losing my grip on reality! Well ok there were two more, but you mean I might change my Perfect POV!?! Evolve? Grow? Develop?

Well Ray, in your case relax. Be worthless. Just get when Deebie wants to suck your cock, your feelings do not enter into the discussion. Feel anything you want and put your cock in her mouth. Later, we don't give a shit how you felt or if you liked it.

I love sex, and anything sexually related, but I also feel that me thinking about and wanting sex is wrong. I know I can’t be the only person who has ever felt this way. Or am I?

I think you thinking about thinking about thinking about sex is the real problem.

So who told you wanting sex is wrong Ray?
What did they say exactly?
What made you decide what they said was more important than fifty thousand tantric masters?

This is gloves off if anyone cares to understand psychotherapists outside the "totally accepting, understanding, nice nice nazi"

 

[InsaneMystic]

Debbie wants to suck your cock, let her suck it. Your fucking feelings, being worthless are worthless and should not be considered. Feel guilty, feel worthless, and feel any damned other thing you want to feel. But put your worthless cock in her mouth when she asks.

She should never have to ask twice.

Whoa, no. That's absolute bullshit.

His penis, his rules. It absolutely does not, and should not, matter what she wants to do with it. If he says no, then that's no. End. Of. Story. And if Debbie is frustrated by that no, that's her problem and hers alone, he shouldn't make it his. If she can't adapt, she's free to leave.


Switch the sex/gender of the people involved and the penis for a vagina, and you should clearly see what kind of horrid mess your statement is.