How important is it to get along with your metamour(s)?

wildflowers

New member
I think she did what you asked - saw you and was cordial - and then you changed the rules and inserted yourself more into her space (FB).

She doesn't want to interact, doesn't see you as a friend, and has been pretty clear about it; I think you could have predicted your post wouldn't make her happy. She dealt with something that annoyed her by moving it out of her way. It's her page, her bday, her issue to manage. Why did you even look to see if your post was still there?

Maybe I missed other things, but I'm not clear that other than the FB issue things have gone 'badly' since you implemented new agreements.

Are you sure you're not trying to create problems to push him into breaking up with her?
 
I read your blog. I like the way you write and I like that on the whole poly seems to suit you.

I often think that Rider seems to be quite manipulative. Probably not intentionally but still, his behaviour indicates a level of wanting both of you in his life as romantic partners regardless of how good it is each of you.

I think it's totally fine that Claire doesn't want to be friends with you. She's Rider's girlfriend - he's the one she chooses to relate to. I have some friends who very much prefer to keep to themselves. They are amazing people but they just don't thrive on lots of social interaction and don't wish to be hanging out with new people. Works for them. I usually invite them to events but also say that if they don't want to come, it's absolutely fine and that we will catch up just the two of us regardless.

Equally, I think it's totally fine that you would prefer to be friends with Claire. I think it would be pretty weird to have somebody close in my life who my partner had absolutely nothing to do with. I have some folk who due to circumstances and having little in common, he wishes to spend very little time with. But, when those people are together - for birthdays, big nights out, that sort of thing - he is happy to spend time with them. I couldn't envisage myself being in a relationship with somebody who didn't want anything to do with the other people I'm close to. It might work for some - wouldn't at all for me.

I don't think that either you or Claire are wrong in your approaches - but it seems like you are not very compatible for having the same partner as each other. Sounds like it's stressful for both of you.

It seems as though what keeps you both there is that whenever one of you is about to back off, Rider speaks to the other, extracts a promise about change and then goes back with promises of change. Keeping you all there. I don't think it's kind to either of you for him to persist in not being able to make a decision and stick to it.

IP
 

Reverie

New member
Maybe I missed other things, but I'm not clear that other than the FB issue things have gone 'badly' since you implemented new agreements.

Are you sure you're not trying to create problems to push him into breaking up with her?

I'm definitely not trying to *create* problems, but I think talking to GalaGirl has made me realize that my needs in a poly situation are different that I initially thought, and that this particular polyship is probably not the right one for me in its current configuration: the problem exists, at least for me, and I'm trying to figure out what to do about it. Who created it? I guess maybe I did a year ago, when I signed up for a situation that I didn't know what it would be like to be in. But I'm trying to SOLVE it now, not create more.

And, as GG said, this is not really metamour's fault—it's the fault of the hinge, my boyfriend, for doing "squeaky wheel" with both of us for so long, and it's also my own fault for bargain-basementing my needs when I brought them to him in response to "what will you TOLERATE?" I was acting out of fear (of losing him), which is never a good thing. I would guess that meta probably was too. I was very helpful for me to think my way through that.

Yes, the FB thing triggered me to think about it, but it's more like one small thing that brought a bigger issue to light. I want...I think she called it "cozy model" where everyone is friendly and can just hang out, and I do not think I will ever get that out of my current situation. Boyfriend also says he has come to want "cozy model" and keeps promising that it will happen eventually, but I am skeptical.

The bottom line is that I might need to free myself up to eventually find a situation more like what I want, after a period of being functionally single for a while. I'm working on figuring that out. Sometimes there just ARE problems—fundamental incompatibilities—without anyone having to create them. It seems like:

the kind of poly that I want = incompatible with the kind of poly she wants
the kind of poly that I want = compatible with the kind of poly he wants
the kind of poly that he wants = incompatible with the kind of poly she wants
BUT
he's more willing to tolerate her kind and sacrifice his own,
AND
and I tried to tolerate, but I am finding that it chafes at me regularly.

I came to this thread intending to do some soul searching and get opinions about what is generally considered reasonable, etc, and I see that there are a wide variety of opinions. So far, it has been immeasurably useful.
 

Reverie

New member
I don't think that either you or Claire are wrong in your approaches - but it seems like you are not very compatible for having the same partner as each other. Sounds like it's stressful for both of you.

It seems as though what keeps you both there is that whenever one of you is about to back off, Rider speaks to the other, extracts a promise about change and then goes back with promises of change. Keeping you all there. I don't think it's kind to either of you for him to persist in not being able to make a decision and stick to it.

Wow, thanks IP. I hadn't really thought of it that way, but you're exactly right. And I don't even think that Claire is "wrong" in her way of doing poly—I recognize that she has a right to conduct relationships in her own way—I was just thinking that some of the acting out behavior she has been doing over the past few months is problematic. It's probably true that she's been lashing out in this way because of the stress.

You're totally right that exactly what he does is wait until one or the other of us is ready to split, then gives us just enough to make us believe that we might be able to make it work if *I* bend a little to her side, or if *she* bends a little to mine. It would be a lot easier if he'd just make a choice, rather than trying to shoehorn both of us into some sort of mythical center path. I guess that, instead, he's making me make the choice.
 

nycindie

Active member
Ugh, Facebook. So many times I read on here, "He/She posted this, deleted that on Facebook - how could they?" and/or "What does it mean? How should I take that?" Really? It's fucking Facebook. No one should make any judgment calls about a relationship or base their behavior on what others do on Facebook.

What you may see as hostile and vitriol could simply be her saying to herself, "Oh, her again. Geez, I can't be bothered with that & don't want to see her message on my wall" - delete! What's the big deal? Everybody uses FB differently. I regularly delete people's posts and comments on my wall, and most people who are connected to me there can't see anyone else nor most of the posts there. Some can't even post to my wall at all. It's my wall, I'll manage it as I please.

Look, Reverie, she doesn't want to conduct her relationship the way you wish she would. She doesn't want to do poly the way you do. All within her rights to do it the way it fits for her. There is no poly rulebook that says metamours have to be friends, or even polite to each other. So what if she doesn't like you? She doesn't have to. She's already agreed not to avoid you and to be in the same place as you without getting in a huff. You can't dictate to your bf how his other gf needs to behave with him or with you. Let her be.
 

Reverie

New member
She's already agreed not to avoid you and to be in the same place as you without getting in a huff. You can't dictate to your bf how his other gf needs to behave with him or with you. Let her be.

That's my plan, as a result of this thread and my thinking through things. I'm letting her be (no more Facebooks or...anything...no more anything). She will never get a single piece of communication from me short of an emergency. If any interaction is seen as a poke at the hornet's nest, well, I'm going to put down the stick.

She has the right to conduct her relationship however she sees fit, and we're probably just not compatible. And that's OK, I just have to plan my course of action in regards to myself. Hopefully, my keeping total distance while I decide what to do next stops anything bad from happening in the interim.

It's not so much the Facebook thing itself; the Facebook thing was just the thing that made me decide to look at it again: this thing bugged me, why did it bug me?, what's hiding under there?, etc. kind of thing. I do feel better now that I've sorted it out, and I'm not going to do anything rash. I've got a newly outlined understanding of my own needs, and that's not a bad thing.

It's like...I'm pretty new at this all. I figured out, slowly, over the course of 2009–2013 that poly suits me much better than monogamy. And now, I've been figuring out over the course of 2014–2015 what *kind* of poly works best for me. It's actually not super surprising that the first situation I stumble into is one that isn't a perfect match. I'll get there, I think.
 

Reverie

New member
Anyway, I'm off to practice music. Thanks so much to each and every one of you who gave input. I really can't stress enough how helpful this mental exercise has been in examining the issue without an event impending to cause extra emotional response.

The act of responding to the posts, in itself, made me see things more clearly. Thank you all for providing me with community and a sounding board, and a wide spectrum of opinions. I know I don't post outside of the blog section much (few acute problems and even less advice to give, novice that I am!) but I do really appreciate having a place to explore "out loud" with people who understand poly, since I don't really know many other poly people IRL.

I'll probably not respond much on this thread going forward, because I just want to chew on the stuff I've thought about today, but I will read them if more responses appear. <3
 

Inyourendo

New member
Ugh, Facebook. So many times I read on here, "He/She posted this, deleted that on Facebook - how could they?" and/or "What does it mean? How should I take that?" Really? It's fucking Facebook. No one should make any judgment calls about a relationship or base their behavior on what others do on Facebook.

What you may see as hostile and vitriol could simply be her saying to herself, "Oh, her again. Geez, I can't be bothered with that & don't want to see her message on my wall" - delete! What's the big deal? Everybody uses FB differently. I regularly delete people's posts and comments on my wall, and most people who are connected to me there can't see anyone else nor most of the posts there. Some can't even post to my wall at all. It's my wall, I'll manage it as I please.

Look, Reverie, she doesn't want to conduct her relationship the way you wish she would. She doesn't want to do poly the way you do. All within her rights to do it the way it fits for her. There is no poly rulebook that says metamours have to be friends, or even polite to each other. So what if she doesn't like you? She doesn't have to. She's already agreed not to avoid you and to be in the same place as you without getting in a huff. You can't dictate to your bf how his other gf needs to behave with him or with you. Let her be.


I just automatically block anyone Nate is interested in, I find that helpful to alleviate any sort of drama .
 

GreenAcres

New member
I am somewhere in the middle: I find it reasonable and necessary for me that people be able to be in basic social scenarios without drama, and with workplace-level cordiality, just because Shit Happens, and I am not up for the stress of dealing with someone's hissy fit over a hospital bed, birthday cake, or casket. People think this can never happen to them: it can. I am super healthy, fit, and not what you'd call older; but, I almost died late last year, suddenly, from a rare health complication. I also have a current love who I know won't be with us much longer due to terminal cancer, and have been profoundly grateful for everyone how is in her life giving support to her and to each other. I can't imagine going through the heartache that is going to fill the lives of everyone when she passes with those involved having to spend their already-frayed emotional resources putting up with the childish bullshit of adults who couldn't figure out how to be compassionate human beings. I am so thankful her husband is amazing and my partner is wonderful, and there will be no bullshit about who can't do what when so and so is around, blah blah blah. Fuck that. I find this true of family members and friends, as well--if someone in my family or friends circle either causes constant drama or regularly brings around people who can't be reasonable adults for whatever reason, that family member or friend doesn't get to be a part of my life. If the person I am dating can't manage their relationships, or chooses people who can't be reasonable adults, I'm not interested.

There's no expectation to be friends with with my metamours, and meeting them only becomes something I find "necessary" if the relationships become long-term, or if we need to be in social situation together. Social interaction, facebook or otherwise, isn't something I'd do unless we'd agreed to it and become friends/acquaintances because we both wanted to.

That said, as others have said, your metamour doesn't have to feel the same way. It is then up to your Rider to deal with that end of things, and you to deal with yours (move your boundaries, or leave the relationship). She's not wrong, you're not wrong, you just have (as others have said) incompatible needs in your relationships.
 
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nycindie

Active member
I think she did what you asked - saw you and was cordial - and then you changed the rules and inserted yourself more into her space (FB).

She doesn't want to interact, doesn't see you as a friend, and has been pretty clear about it; I think you could have predicted your post wouldn't make her happy. She dealt with something that annoyed her by moving it out of her way. It's her page, her bday, her issue to manage. Why did you even look to see if your post was still there?

Maybe I missed other things, but I'm not clear that other than the FB issue things have gone 'badly' since you implemented new agreements.

Are you sure you're not trying to create problems to push him into breaking up with her?

Reverie,
I think you should chew on everything that Wildflowers has written here, especially the parts I bolded, as it is all very, very insightful and relevant.

I think that posting to her wall wasn't just something she saw as poking a hornet's nest; you deliberately poked that hornet's nest and then threw up your hands at her reaction, as if you couldn't figure out why an "innocent" Happy Birthday wish would be unwelcome. I think you're smarter than that.
 
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Reverie

New member
The way that I saw it wasn't still there was that I had gone into my "recent activity" page looking for an image that I'd commented on that I couldn't remember whose page it was on, and I'd noticed that my post to her wasn't on the list anymore even though I hadn't done that much stuff yet that day. I just happened to notice. I didn't even specifically click on her page until I noticed that, and that was kind of a "curiosity killed the cat" moment. (I hadn't clicked on her page to leave the message, either, I'd just responded to Facebook's prompting.)

As for the rest, I'll "chew on it"; I respect the opinion of many of the people here, including yours, and if you advise me that something bears more looking into, I am more than willing to introspect a while. But I didn't want you to get the wrong idea and think I was just, like, stalking her page waiting for something terrible to happen. I use "recent activity" fairly frequently since I don't always remember where something is if I think of it and want to share it later.
 

Reverie

New member
In thinking about it for a time, I can definitely say that I didn't incite a negative reaction in her deliberately. I deliberately sent the message, of course—literally, I deliberated over whether to do it. I considered whether it would be taken as an olive branch or make her mad. In the end, I decided that a wish of happiness couldn't possibly be construed negatively. Obviously, this was where my ability to game out human reaction failed. I'm recently learning that "couldn't possibly" doesn't exist in communication.

nycindie, you may say I'm "smarter than that," but despite any raw intelligence that I might possess, "humaning" is not always my strong suit, and I do fail at predicting human reactions sometimes—less frequently now than in my youth, but it's still something that I am working on learning.

Oona, with her mostly-finished psychology degree, long ago gave me the armchair diagnosis of being likely undiagnosed Aspie, though I have "learned how to human" by close observation of people and by practice, especially through working ten years in the service industry. It was so bad as a kid that I was ostracized for being "too weird" and never talking to anyone, though there was a year where sometimes I'd meow.

I've come a very long way since then, but truly, I still have a hard time figuring out exactly how people are going to react sometimes, even when it seems blatantly obvious to other people. There are situations where "humaning" has become second nature to me through practice, and then there are new situations where I try to use logic to figure out what actually requires more emotional finesse than I can sometimes muster. Sometimes (like in the situation where I "solved" Rider's internal-expectations puzzle), the logic works in my favor. But sometimes, it works against, especially with people I don't know well.

I guess I thought of it like this:

send message --> good reaction ("like" or otherwise; small chance) --> WOOHOO for tiny olive branch.

send message --> no reaction; ignored (best chance) --> eh, about expected, but at least I tried.

send message --> bad reaction (small chance) --> oh, bummer, she really hates me.

I also remembered back that she had "liked" the HBD I'd sent her last year, when Rider and I were just starting our relationship, and had used that to inform my "level of acceptability" judgment. But, I was wrong.

So, in response to the questions upthread, I'm totally willing to admit that I made the wrong judgment call, but even digging deep, I can't own any malice. There may not be much effective difference between my having a moment of being a moron and my trying to start trouble, but I feel like (pardon the splash of hippie-dippiness) it would resonate negatively through my relationship if my motives came from a trouble-making place, so there is some kind of...spiritual difference. Or something. In any case, I know pot-stirrers, and I recognize the behavior, and this wasn't that.

And I came up with (on my own, in my first post on the thread) the notion that I shouldn't make any more similar gestures again, so at least I am learning from my mistakes. I'm not sure what more I can do—if I've offended her, an apology would surely make it worse. The most I can do right now is step back and try to stop wringing my hands about it (take a chill pill, etc.).

It may very well be the case that I find continuing in the relationship untenable because it doesn't match the style of poly that I prefer. Until such point when I choose to end it, though, I'm adopting a "wide-berth" policy so that I can enjoy what remains of it with (hopefully) zero drama. And I guess trying not to obsess over stuff—appreciating the good. I've got a LOT of good coming up, so it shouldn't be too difficult.

I hope that I have explained myself well. I think I am going through a rough patch with my communication skills, so let me know if any of that was too confusing. Thanks again for examining things closely and asking me to examine them more closely and elucidate further. It's always helpful for me to write about things when I am trying to figure them out, and it's especially helpful when people show me places where they differ in received message from what I intended in outgoing message. It helps me not only figure stuff out for the issue at hand, but also learn things to apply to the future! More wisdom = less blundering!
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
If you think you fall on the Asperger spectrum, do get that checked out later. But here?

You send a message with good intentions. She deleted it off her wall.

That's all the behavior there was. Neither is a big deal to me.

The MEANINGS you are assigning to these behaviors -- the evaluations? To me are just side trips from the main issue that use up your energy. Pull back from side trips. Get back on the main track.

Your BF Rider is choosing his own comfort by choosing both. Not because BOTH are joyously willing/and wanting to be there, but because he chooses to play one off the other to stretch out the time. So he can remain comfortable rather than doing things he finds uncomfortable -- like be assertive/decisive. This is a behavior you both dislike -- when he goes all floppy hinge.

And so far -- both of you are choosing to stay with him despite him doing behaviors you do not like.

You sound like you have decided to end it with him. Now you are trying to figure out when to do it.

Don't stress so much about her at this point -- once you end it, all the problems with her no longer apply. Stop chasing side trips. Focus.

That would be my advice.

Especially since in the time to write more posts here, you could have written email to him to end it and move on to your healing time.

I think lingering in the healing time is a better place in which to linger. :eek:

Galagirl
 
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nycindie

Active member
I guess I thought of it like this:

send message --> good reaction ("like" or otherwise; small chance) --> WOOHOO for tiny olive branch.

send message --> no reaction; ignored (best chance) --> eh, about expected, but at least I tried.

send message --> bad reaction (small chance) --> oh, bummer, she really hates me.

. . . The most I can do right now is step back and try to stop wringing my hands about it (take a chill pill, etc.).

It may very well be the case that I find continuing in the relationship untenable because it doesn't match the style of poly that I prefer. Until such point when I choose to end it, though, I'm adopting a "wide-berth" policy so that I can enjoy what remains of it with (hopefully) zero drama. And I guess trying not to obsess over stuff—appreciating the good. I've got a LOT of good coming up, so it shouldn't be too difficult.

Yeah, personally, I wouldn't think too much about the fact that she deleted your message. It could even have been accidental - who knows? But it doesn't even necessarily means she hates you if she deleted it on purpose. She just didn't want the message left there, and that is that. I think it is wise to give her, and Rider's relationship with her, space. If I were you, I would just focus on managing your own relationships, and not even ask about how things are going between him and her.
 

Reverie

New member
You sound like you have decided to end it with him. Now you are trying to figure out when to do it.

Don't stress so much about her at this point -- once you end it, all the problems with her no longer apply. Stop chasing side trips. Focus.

That would be my advice.

Especially since in the time to write more posts here, you could have written email to him to end it and move on to your healing time.

I think lingering in the healing time is a better place in which to linger.

Thanks, GalaGirl. I was continuing to respond because I was receiving questions about my intentions from members of the community here, and it seemed worthwhile to me to clear that stuff up the best that I could. I value the many opinions that I receive here, and my tendency is to "pile on more information" if my intentions have been improperly communicated. I really care about this place! :motions at forum:

I'm still thinking about the best time to initiate the "ending conversation"; he's also my best friend locally, and we work on music together that is important to both of us, so I want to make sure that I do it at a time of least suckage for both of us. I know there's never a GOOD time for this sort of thing, but there are certainly less bad times, if preserving a friendship out of it is my goal. And it is.

In the meantime, while I'm waiting for the right moment, just KNOWING that I'm going to be out of it at some point seems like a bit of a balm to keep me peaceful. I'm NOT going to worry about her, because she's NOT a permanent fixture. I'm going to enjoy what time that I do have left with him during our (many) good moments, and when the time is least-bummery, I'm going to have The Talk.

I think it is wise to give her, and Rider's relationship with her, space. If I were you, I would just focus on managing your own relationships, and not even ask about how things are going between him and her.

nycindie, that's been my tack for the past...week? week and a half?...or so? I've not asked about how things are going between them AT ALL, and when he has tried to engage me with (what I have dubbed my "new standards" of TMI)—complaining about this or that, giving me more info about their dates than I need, etc.—I don't tell him to shut up or anything, but I don't engage AT ALL. I pretty much "mm-hmm" and then change the subject. So we're on the same page there.
 
No worries. :)

It's probably true that she's been lashing out in this way because of the stress.

Yes.

Probably you have become very focussed on Claire, on what she thinks, says, does and on pressing for changes in the way she wishes to conduct her relationships because of the stress too.

I suspect that the way both of you are behaving and seeing things is being affected by being in a stressful situation.

IP
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Hi Reverie,

Re (from OP):
"I posted a 'Happy Birthday' to her on her Facebook page -- nothing overly personal, just the same generic well-wishing I put on literally each of my acquaintances' pages -- and she deleted it. That seemed to me to be an act of overt hostility. So I begin to wonder if the situation is hopeless; does she just despise me, and there's nothing I can do about it?"

Well let's start with the possibility that she may not dig birthdays as much as most people do. I mean I know for my own part, I would do away with all "happy birthdays" and birthday parties if I could. It's all such a hassle and doesn't mean much to me. I'm an atheist and have no expectation of an afterlife, so to me a birthday is just getting one year closer to the end of it all. How depressing.

But I'm being selfish, as the whole world isn't obligated to feel like I do. Other people love birthday greetings and parties and it's mean of me to wish they didn't have such. So, I try to be a good sport and wish people happy birthday and stuff, but my point here is that some people have a different perspective about birthdays from what one might expect.

Next, I am thinking that while she is willing to be polite and shake your hand, that's probably all the friendliness she wants in her relationship with you. To her, birthday greetings probably go beyond the basic politeness she wants and thus, are like a personal boundary for her. This means that while she isn't necessarily trying to be hostile, she still feels she has a right to defend her own boundary by deleting a birthday greeting she'd rather not receive.

Even if she indulges other people's birthday wishes to her, that may be because they're not metamours to her, and she may have a special personal boundary that applies to metamours only. Maybe it's her dysfunctional way of coping with having a metamour who she'd rather not think about if she could help it. Perhaps it would be healthier for her to be friendlier with her metamours, but she does have the privilege of coping with things dysfunctionally as long as the damage is no worse than a deleted Facebook post.

To you, what she did was terrifically hurtful. To her, it may seem no worse than drawing a line around her "personal space" and deleting anything that crosses that line. In a nutshell, I just don't believe she perceives things in the way you and I would perceive them. She has her own unique perception of the world. She is like a turtle who is much more at ease inside her shell. She probably hates peeking her head out.

---

Re:
"What level of friendliness do you need to have with your metas in order to be comfortable and happy?"

While I would *like* to be friendly with my metas, I don't require it. A wave and a handshake would be plenty, and they can avoid me as much as they want as long as it doesn't interfere with my relationship with our shared partner.

Re:
"Have you ever been in a situation where you felt like your metamour hates you?"

Hate would be too strong of a word, but I have to say there were times (in the early years) when I desperately feared that my metamour resented me, or at least resented my encounters/relationship with his wife.

Re:
"If so, how did you deal?"

Oh, really bloody poorly. We all (We're an MFM V) learned a lot of things the hard way in those early years. I was completely paranoid, and expected my metamour to veto me at any moment. And for all I know, he probably expected me to veto him! He had the advantage of being "The Established Relationship." I had the advantage of being "The New and Shiny." It was a Mexican standoff.

Re:
"Was it able to be resolved?"

Yes, finally. Part of the resolution, though, was that my metamour and I had to live in separate domiciles for awhile.

Re:
"Did it end poorly?"

Thank gods it seems to have "ended" well.

Re:
"Did you find yourself starting to hate them back, out of frustration?"

There were times when I was fit to be tied over him.

Re:
"Did it strain your relationship with your partner?"

Very much so.

Re:
"Have you ended a relationship over poor metamour relations?"

There was a time when it looked like I might. Thankfully, that disaster was averted.

Re:
"Did you regret it?"

It was probably healthy for me to say, "Things need to improve between all three of us. If I can't detect any significant improvement by the start of next year, I am going to have to break up with you." It wasn't a rule, it was a boundary. Still, I'm glad I didn't have to follow through on it.

On the same token, I do regret many aspects of how I acted back in those days. I was definitely causing a huge part of the problem.

Re:
"Did you get back together with that person if/when their relationship with the problematic person ended?"

Fate smiled upon me and rescued me from the entire scenario underpinning that question. You may ask, "Well, what if she had ended her relationship with him, after you had broken up with her? Would you have gotten back together with her?" Well I probably would have, but I have to tell you, I would have eventually regretted not having my ex-metamour in our life. And would she have resented me for causing him to leave? Eh, I think she'd be too mature to resent me ... but I might at least feel like she had a right to resent me!

---

Well it sounds like things aren't meant to pan out for you and Rider, and I'm sincerely sorry about that. On the other hand, you have certain needs, and it doesn't look like those needs can be met in this relationship. Everyone has their own particular needs. I have mine. And I don't apologize for them. I've been known to demonstrate that I can sever someone from my life without a backward glance -- no matter how close of kith and kin they were to me.

And I don't suppose the bulk of my post here adds much useful info. I admit, I wrote almost all of it without reading beyond your first post on this thread. Still it's another perspective, for whatever that's worth. I did read the rest of the thread and didn't think there was anything more for me to add at this time. A lot of bases have already been covered here.

Be at peace, as much as possible in this chaotic world.
Regards and sympathy,
Kevin T.
 

Reverie

New member
Quote:
"Was it able to be resolved?"
Yes, finally. Part of the resolution, though, was that my metamour and I had to live in separate domiciles for awhile.

Thank you, Kevin, for your incredibly detailed and informative post. I must say that I envy you the fact that you have a happy, live-in poly family. Ideally, eventually, that's what I want for myself. And while I know that life has a way of changing so that one can come to tolerate and even enjoy that about which they originally thought "uh-uh, no way," I really don't think I'll be happy long-term in a situation where my metamour and I have such polar opposite hopes about where the relationship will go.

Quote:
"Did you regret it?"
It was probably healthy for me to say, "Things need to improve between all three of us. If I can't detect any significant improvement by the start of next year, I am going to have to break up with you." It wasn't a rule, it was a boundary. Still, I'm glad I didn't have to follow through on it.

I think the relationship-ending boundary is about what it's going to come down to for me, just because I can't see myself continuing down this path of staying and waiting for change. Indeed, as several people on this board have pointed out to me, it's actually not even really fair TO HER for Rider to be asking her to change her entire poly outlook rather than being willing to walk away, so change, even if it happens, would likely be extracted slowly and under duress, with resentments building. And my coming along for that ride seems unwise.

"Did you get back together with that person if/when their relationship with the problematic person ended?"
Fate smiled upon me and rescued me from the entire scenario underpinning that question. You may ask, "Well, what if she had ended her relationship with him, after you had broken up with her? Would you have gotten back together with her?" Well I probably would have, but I have to tell you, I would have eventually regretted not having my ex-metamour in our life. And would she have resented me for causing him to leave? Eh, I think she'd be too mature to resent me ... but I might at least feel like she had a right to resent me!

The reason that I asked this one is that Rider has told me in the past that if I wasn't with him anymore, things would probably end between them, too. When I asked him why on earth, he said that he thinks that if I ended things with him, he would be sad enough that he would just want to be single for a while. And if he were single, well, I'd date him again! Despite his flaws (and we all have flaws), he's a terrific person, and my favorite that I've yet met. And he's said he would want to date me too.

So, the logic behind his saying all that escapes me, since either situation (his leaving her to pursue a relationship structure more like the one I want—and that he's said HE wants—with me, vs. his leaving her because I've walked away and he wants to be single to grieve, then us dating again) has the same effective result. But I guess he's just loath to give up, of his own accord, his hopes for a sliver of a chance that things might work out with all three of us.

As for me, I'm sure there are many wildcard scenarios that I can't imagine, but as it stands, walking away until he gets his shit together and is willing to make more active decisions seems to be the best course of action (with my knowing full well that may never happen). I feel like it's the best chance I, personally, have at happiness, either by healing and moving on, or by my eventually ending up with him in a situation more suitable to my needs. Either way, it's better than compromising my own needs to the point of being all stressed out, obsessive, and beginning to feel the first inklings of bitterness.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Re:
"So, the logic behind his saying all that escapes me, since either situation (his leaving her to pursue a relationship structure more like the one I want -- and that he's said *he* wants -- with me, versus his leaving her because I've walked away and he wants to be single to grieve, then us dating again) has the same effective result."

Ah -- I think the difference that matters to him is that he wouldn't be the one choosing to "break up the happy family." Break the "happy spell." Break the "everything's fine" spell. He needs you to initiate that process. Then he's willing to go along for the ride.

Re:
"I guess he's just loath to give up, of his own accord, his hopes for a sliver of a chance that things might work out with all three of us."

Yup.

Anyway the important thing for now is that you do what's right for you. Rider and Claire can figure things out however they will. You can't control their part of the equation.

Keep us posted if you're willing,
Regards,
Kevin T.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
So, the logic behind his saying all that escapes me

Makes sense to me. Floppy hinge flopping some more.

Nothing new there.

And if you hang around trying to "explain" to him how this lacks logic? What does he get? He gets you are still there. In this weird V thing where he has his two partners.

"I guess he's just loath to give up, of his own accord, his hopes for a sliver of a chance that things might work out with all three of us."

I wonder if it isn't working out just fine to him as it is.

Galagirl
 
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