How to help her insecurities

[Mr Maple]

Mrs. Maple and I had been talking about poly for some time and I had thought that we had cleared up 90% of any possible problems.
It would appear I was mistaken.

She admits that it's about her own fears, her past experiences with exes, a few family things, her own inner demons about her self-worth, etc.

The way I tried to sell the idea to Mrs. Maple was to have a companion at home, to have a best friend, and someone else to help us manage the family life that is full of mayhem, chaos, and destruction.

We could have someone that we trust, just like we trust each other, to tell one or both of us that we are wrong in something, another person that we could go out with and have fun with, someone to help with kids, etc., etc. (Starting to sound like a nanny.)

Then a few days ago, something in her broke. She started to get all scared of things, questioning if she was being replaced and other such problems.

I am the type of loving husband that, if I have a sexual fantasy (one I am actively thinking of) I have her right in the middle of it all too. She is my queen.

Has anyone experienced issues like this with one of their "others"? What did you do, outside of counseling? I want to try helping her in general first. Poly can wait.

 

[Magdlyn]

First of all, "adding a sister wife" is not what polyamory is all about. Trying to build a box for this unicorn who will magically blend in to your family as a perfect helpmeet, yes, a nanny, sex doll, etc., is highly unrealistic. What would be in it for this unicorn? She can't even be legally married to you or your wife. Would she be introduced to everyone you know as your second wife? Would your children be legally hers? Would she be able to have kids of her own, coming in with them, or fathered by you?

Would your wife really want a stranger to just storm in and take charge of her children?

And why would a stranger want to help clean up your "mayhem, chaos and destruction"? Isn't that your job, the job of your present partner?

Yeah, I think therapy is the best place to start.

 

[ref2018]

I am the type of loving husband that, if I have a sexual fantasy (one I am actively thinking of) I have her right in the middle of it all too, she is my queen, etc.

It does indeed sound like your wife is right in the middle of your sexual fantasy, whether she likes the fantasy or not.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

The way I tried to sell the idea to Mrs. Maple was to have a companion at home, to have a best friend, and someone else to help us manage the family life that is full of mayhem, chaos, and destruction.

Why would anyone want to do this for you and your wife? What would be in it for them?

 

[Mr Maple]

I am not the best communicator, in general. More in text format. I tend to use a lot of exaggerations and sarcasm when talking. I tend to be misunderstood as possibly being, well, a jackass. I hope I don't come off that way.

In my perfect imaginary world, this woman would be treated the exact same way as Mrs. Maple, living with us, with the idea of being a permanent member of the family, literally treated just like a wife would be.

The children we already have would be told that she would be just like Mom and Dad, and have to listen to her. But that would all come to pass over time. We do have family friends who are called and treated like aunts and uncles, no blood ties at all, just people that are part of our lives.

I would introduce her as the second wife, because I could not treat her differently. I don't have it in me. You are family or you are not. Anyone that had an issue with that could suck it.

If she had her own kids, I would treat them the same as my own. I know I can do that because I already have a stepdaughter with Mrs. Maple. I have treated her like my own kid from when I first met her at 4 yrs old. (She's 18 now.) Again, I could not treat imaginary kids differently, in that respect. I would be more than happy to father more with the imaginary woman too, if she wanted to. It's not a requirement.

My plan for finding the other woman was that Mrs. Maple and I would be looking together. We would contact her together and work hand-in-hand, doing the meet and greet, deciding together. A 100% team effort.

Helping with the mayhem of life would only come after she had been integrated into the family. And we would help her with her mayhem because we would be family.

Mrs. Maple has expressed some bi interest, but is not sure because of personal fears and ones related to her extended family on her dad's side, very traditional religious types. The wife was adopted and because she was not blood-related, many of her dad's side of the family treated her as a nonperson because she was not blood. There was no need to treat her like family, etc.

Mrs. Maple is very much a part of my personal desires. I never hide how much I desire or want her at any time of day every day. She actually made the comment to me more than once that I should get a second wife and maybe a third, so that she could have a rest from my desires. But also so the second one could, and by the time I was done with third, I could do things to her, and repeat the process.

I am also the kind of person who feels and believes if I am having sex with the person, then they are someone very important, and want to have them forever. But I'm not going to do it behind anyone's back, like some kind of POS.

Sorry for the wall of text.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle. I could be wrong in my impressions, but FWIW, so you can see how some of this can sound to others:

I am not the best communicator in general, more in text format as I tend to use a lot of exaggerations and sarcasm when talking, I tend to be misunderstood as possibly being, well a jack ass I hope I don't come off that way.

Do you plan on working on this or changing this communication style so you don't come off like a jackass? You seem aware it can sometimes happen. Talking to more people, dating more people means MORE communicating, and MORE communication issues, if you go around like a bull in a china shop.

In my perfect imaginary world, this woman would be treated the exact same as Mrs. Maple, living with us with the idea of being a permanent member of the family, literally treated just like a wife would be.

You have this imaginary fantasy. Fair enough, we all have fantasies.

What is okay?
What is good?
What is better?

You seem to have best already thought out. You want another cohabitating spouse, who would also be your wife's best friend, a coparent to your children, an extra house helper, etc. (assuming wife and the potential are even up for that arrangement).

If you can't get "best," what would be the other levels of acceptable to you?

The way I tried to sell the idea to Mrs. Maple was to have a companion at home, a best friend, and someone else to help us manage the family life that is full of mayhem, chaos, and destruction.

You are trying to sell this to Mrs Maple. Why SELL?

What is HER imaginary fantasy? What is her okay, good, better, best?

Does anything you might want actually align with anything she might want, or is it all best left in fantasy? Maybe Mrs Maple doesn't want to have your potential be her new roomie/companion/best friend. Maybe she'd like to manage the family-life chaos in other ways.

We could have someone that we trust, just like we trust each other, to tell one or both of us that we are wrong in something, another person that we could go out with and have fun with, someone to help with kids etc. (starting to sound like a nanny).

Well, how about you HIRE a nanny then, if that's doable right now, to reduce the chaos and help you and wife have more time to yourselves and to think about this possible change in relationship model?

Have you considered talking to a counselor experienced in non-monogamy?

Then a few days ago, something in her broke. She started to get all scared of things, questioning if she was being replaced, and other such problems.

This is another reason to talk to a counselor, if you both have current or past baggage to sort out first.

In my perfect imaginary world, this woman would be treated the exact same way as Mrs. Maple. living with us with the idea of being a permanent member of the family, literally treated just like a wife would be.

The children we already have would be told that she would be just like Mom and Dad, and have to listen to her. But that would all come to pass over time. We do have family friends who are called and treated like aunts and uncles, no blood ties at all, just people that are part of our lives.

I see you say OVER TIME, but do the other stakeholders, your wife and kids, even want this in the first place, or are you getting carried away with a fantasy?

Your stepdaughter is 18. What does she need another parent for? She's a legal adult now.

I don't know the ages of the other kids. But I know me. I'm not unkind to kids, but I will never take on a coparenting role for children not actually mine. I don't want them getting that attached to me. I don't want me getting that attached to them. Legally, I have NO leg to stand on, and in the end, whatever the custody parents say goes. I can be "edged out." It's easier not to go there in the first place. I am just about done raising all mine and I don't feel like "starting over." I am looking forward to empty nest/retirement and getting to just be ME again.

Have you thought about it from other people's POVs? Or you are just stuck in your own fantasy, what would make YOUR life more fun, less stress, less work, etc.?

Can you date your potential somewhere else? Why have this cohabitation thing? What if it NEVER becomes a live-in situation? Would you all live in your own separate homes near each other: wife's home, your home, potential's home? Would you go live with the new potential and see Wife at Wife's home?

Helping with the mayhem of life would only come after she has been integrated into the family. We would help her with her mayhem because we would be family.

What if the potential doesn't WANT this integration? Would you still want to date them?

What if Wife doesn't want this integration? Do you still want to do poly, or not, even if it means divorce, because Wife doesn't want to live that way, and prefers monogamy?

Mrs. Maple has expressed some bi interest, but is not sure, because of personal fears and ones related to her extended family on her dad's side, very traditional religious types. The wife was adopted and because she was not blood-related, many of her dad's side of the family treated her as a nonperson. Because she was not blood, there was no need to treat her like family.

Are you pushing Mrs Maple's old trauma buttons? She was never really "integrated" into her adoptive family of origin. She created a family with you and the kids in this home, so that maybe felt safe and "At last!" for her. And now you are rocking the boat and things don't feel safe anymore.

Your plan is this newcomer just gets entry into HER family and HER home, handed to her on a silver platter because YOU felt like it? You don't think Mrs Maple is gonna feel some kind of way about that?

Can Mrs Maple explore her bi interest with a whole different partner and NOT have it be with your new potential? I could be wrong. But you seem to imply that's part of the sale. "Look! You can date her too!"

You cannot speak for a potential dating person who isn't even there. They might not be bisexual, or are, but are NOT into your wife. Do they have to fake interest in your wife to gain dating access to you?

Mrs. Maple is very much a part of my personal desires. I never hide how much I desire or want her at any time of day, every day. She actually made the comment to me more than once that I should get a second wife, maybe a third, so that she can have a rest from my desires. But also so the second one could, and by the time I was done with third, I could do things to her, and repeat the process.

What's that mean? You are horny a lot and come to her wanting sex at all hours of the day? "You never hide it" means you do not exercise any self control?

What does Mrs Maple want? you bugging her less for sex? "Desire for Mrs Maple," in the form of sex, kinda sounds like centering YOUR sexual desire or appetite. It's not considering her desire or appetite, and the fact that she's not a sex-dispensing machine just because she's your wife.

It sounds like you want a third partner, too. Is that the yen for two more partners: your libido and Wife's libido do not match?

I am also the kind of person who feels and believes if I am having sex with the person, then they are someone very important, and I want to have them forever. But I'm not going to do it behind anyone's back, like some kind of POS.

Okay, that's important to YOU. Why do they have to be important to your wife or kids? It's like you automatically expect this. Do you?

I think you could slow down some and think this out more. I'm not sure if you want polyamory, ENM, or what. It kinda sounds like you frame it right now as "another wife" because that's the model you know. "Just like us, but with more" is easy to imagine as a newbie. But that might not actually be the right fit model here. Non-monogamy comes in many forms.

Galagirl

 

[Mr Maple]

I have fought with my communication complications for many years. I used to tip-toe around words all the time. Now I try to be as blunt as possible while still being diplomatic (try).

I was aiming for cohabitation because I feel that Mrs. Maple needs more support from more people. She wants to get out and do things but has no one to do them with. She is sometimes scared to make friends to do things. She is very socially awkward and generally scared when it's just her meeting new people.

I thought by the two of us doing this together, that she could feel more secure, instead of the many stories I have heard where one person just opens the door and says "Say hi to new partner," which almost never works.

She can get overwhelmed at times and might have an emotional outburst.

Our youngest two are 12 and 4 years old. The 4 year old is the King of Mayhem.

Mrs. Maple, as I said, did express some bi interest. But because of personal things that I mentioned, she became scared and filled with a lot of worry about what others would say, think or do because of it.

The "selling" was my attempt to show her that it doesn't have to be all about sex. if at all. We can start out slow, meet the person and see if we could at least be friends. If we could be more than that together, all the better. And in time, if it all worked out, the three of us would become a unit and help take care of our "new" family.

Our middle child (second daughter) I think would benefit from having another adult to talk to. Being a pre-teen, with the hormones and trying to figure out who she really is, I think it would be very helpful.

The 4 yr old would just see any additional person as another source for chocolate milk and candy, after every other person said no. He's 4.

I think that one home would be best, just because of the simple fact of money and being able to directly support each other.

Another one of the "selling points" was that, if we did have another woman, Wife could go out and have girl time, be out of the house and away from the kids, and maybe even me, sometimes.

Because of her insecurities, I do not think she could explore any possible bi-interest without me being there. She would be too scared to act because she would think that it was cheating or something. Even if I expressed a desire for her to explore and see what happens, she needs someone to save her on an emotional level.

Oh, I am indeed a very healthy guy in that department. I have openly told Mrs. Maple that if I could have her to myself all day long, she would not be able to walk for a week, because we would not leave the bedroom. She both likes that and fears that. It's why she told me that she should share me with other women, like her co-workers, so she could have a breather, and then pointed out that the second would need a breather too, so a third might be needed. All her words.

I am 90% sure she was mostly joking. But she did bring it up to me on more than one occasion and indirectly did make an offer to one of our female friends. But I am not a one-night stand kind of guy. I make emotional bonds with the person and want them to stay connected to me.

I have been trying to keep the conversation with Mrs. Maple as casual about this as possible, once she started to react negatively towards this. Because at first she was almost trying to pimp me out to her single female friends/co-workers that were having the itch to scratch and she would comment on things I do to her. I take pride in my work.

So, for the most part, I do feel that this was started by her. But once the ball started to move, that was when she had issues come up.

Help?

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more info. I will share some other thoughts, then.

I think it is good that you aren't hiding/tip-toeing any more, like an on/off communication switch. But "blunt" is too much. Not everything has to be a HAMMER, you know? It's like you are still working on your "communication-volume knob." Is that true?

I was aiming for the cohabitation because I feel that Mrs. Maple needs more support from more people. She wants to get out and do things, but has no one to do them with. She is sometimes scared to make friends to do things. She is very socially awkward and generally scared when its just her meeting new people.

How about you let her solve her social wellness herself, and encourage her to work with an individual counselor, instead of trying to "fix it for her" by way of recruiting a potential for you to date who ALSO has to be your wife's social support?

It kinda sounds like you are full of being her ONLY person, like, you don't mind being on the team, but you can't be the ONLY one on the team. But the solution is not to fob it off you and onto someone else. The solution is for wife to do her personal work herself.

I thought by the two of us doing this together, that she could feel more secure, instead of the many stories I have heard where one person just opens the door and says "Say hi to new partner!" which almost never works.

Her dating her own person, you dating your own person, how is that NOT you and her practicing polyamory together?

You only count it as "together" in the most literal sense: you both date the exact same person. That comes with a host of problems -- including unicorn hunting issues.

Unicorns-R-Us

Would you enjoy feeling jealous of your wife because the potential wants to spend more time with her?

Would wife enjoy feeling jealous of you because the potential wants to spend more time with you?

You could SKIP some of that by having your OWN separate potentials, and not be like two dogs fighting over the same bone.

She can get overwhelmed at times and might have an emotional outburst. Our youngest two are 12 and 4 yrs old. The 4 yr old is the King of Mayhem.

4 is old enough for VPK, or getting close. I put mine in the free half day VPK 3 days a week. They liked it so much, I paid for daycare the other 2 days so I could have half days to myself 5x a week. Them going into kindergarten gave me more time. You are getting there as the child ages.

Are you doing your fair share of the parenting load? How about the 18 yr old? Is she still in HS and able to help, or not there and off at college? Could the 12 yr old sometimes play with the 4 yr old, so you parents can make dinner or something?

Think about a nanny, even parttime. Parent burn-out is real.

I think that 1 home would be best just because of the simple fact of money and being able to directly support each other.

Again, that might be YOUR "best." But there's nothing wrong with a potential maintaining her own home and you dealing with shuttling to and fro.

You haven't thought that a potential might come already partnered, as you do, with her own spouse and kids?

another one of the "selling points" was that if we did have another woman, she could go out and have girl time, be out of the house and away from the kids, and maybe even me, sometimes.

Why is this not happening ALREADY?

When I was at that stage of parenting, DH and I worked out trades with other young families. We took their kids for the weekend overnight and then they took ours. We both took turns being "night parent on call." Whether I stayed home to sleep, do hobbies, or went out alone, or with my friends, he was in charge. Then he had his nights. We flipped a coin on Fridays. Weekends were for family time.

Why does some new potential have to arrive on the scene before you and wife get around to splitting parenting duties more equitably?

Because of her insecurities, I do not think she could explore any possible bi-interest without me being there, she would be too scared to act because she would think that it was cheating or something even if I expressed a desire for her to explore and see what happens, she needs someone to save her on an emotional level.

If she needs a therapist, encourage her to get one.

If she wants to date a GF, and you are good with it, that's their thing. You are not a part of it. Group sex or voyeuring is NOT a requirement in polyamory.

Oh I am indeed a very healthy guy in that department, I have openly told Mrs. Maple that if I could have her to myself all day long, she would not be able to walk for a week, because we would not leave the bedroom. she both likes that and fears that.

To be honest, I hope you are exaggerating. That doesn't sound healthy or fun to ME. It sounds scary and like a lot of pressure. It is nice to feel wanted by a partner, but it sounds kinda creepy wondering if marriage-bed rape is around the corner.

Its why she told me that she should share me with other women or her co-workers or just find another woman so she could have a breather, then pointed out the second would need a breather too, so a third might be needed. All her words.

If this is you two getting off on a group-sex fantasy? Cool.
If it's that you two want to go explore sex clubs? Cool.
If it's that you two want to explore swinging? Cool.

None of that is polyamory. Swinging, sex clubs, group sex are all non-monogamy things, but are not polyamory.

Chicken noodle is a kind of soup. Not all soups are chicken noodle.

I can't tell over internet if this is in still in the healthy fantasy place or getting weird or what. So y'all figure that out.

I suggest staying away from coworkers and other "messy list" people. No relatives, best friends, coworkers, exes. None of your teen daughter's pals, even if legal. None of the kids' teachers. There are enough people to date in the world without going right for the messy ones that will make things weird.

Some might be permanently messy, like your relatives. Some might change over time, like kids' teachers, once they are no longer teaching your kids, or a coworker who changes job so is no longer a coworker.

Now I am 90% sure she was mostly joking. But she did bring it up to me on more than one occasion and indirectly did make an offer to one of our female friends, but I am not a one-night stand kind of guy. I make emotional bonds with the person and want them to stay connected to me.

And would you be up for open-poly? Where it is polyamory on your side of it, and wife gets to be open to casual sex, one night flings, etc., on her side?

Stop "joking." Either do or don't. Not "kinda-sorta-maybe kidding." That is no way to clearly negotiate with Wife, or with potentials.

What if this friend said okay? Then what? Just float along unprepared into things? I mean, if you two WANT to jump in blind, you CAN. It doesn't usually end up great, though. *shrug*

I have been trying to keep the conversation with Mrs. Maple as casual about this as possible, once she started to react negatively towards this. Because at first she was almost trying to pimp me out to her single female friends/co-workers that were having the itch to scratch. She would comment on things I do to her. I take pride in my work.

If that's y'alls kink, some kind of cuck/cuckqueen thing, then you might educate yourselves about that and consider other forums for help. You could try FetLife.

For the most part, I do feel that this was started by her. But once the ball started to move, I feel that was when she had issues come up.

Help?

I suggest you slow down. Consider working with a counselor experienced in non-monogamy. Some couples take years to prepare. Mere WILLINGNESS to talk about it, or go there, doesn't automatically mean you have the needed skills or ABILITY to go there. One must be both willing and able for things to go as well as possible.

Nothing says you can't do kink AND poly AND swing, but don't be like "kid in a candy store" doing all the things, all crazy. Consider one thing at a time. Figure out what to try in what order, if people ACTUALLY want to go there. Otherwise, leave it at fantasy and enjoy it that way. Or wait until the youngest kid is older.

That is my suggestion. Solve the home chaos/parenting burn-out first, then deal with the new things, one at a time.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Mr Maple,

I think you need to reassure Mrs Maple that you are not looking to replace her, and that that isn't going to happen. I do not know what other things she is worried about, so I'm not sure what to suggest in that area. Just, reassure her that nothing bad is going to happen, she is just going to have a new friend to help her around the house. Also put poly on hold for the time being, until you can get Mrs Maple to the point where she is not so worried and insecure. And if your own efforts to do that fall short, consider getting a counselor.

Poly is not widely known and accepted, and it can be scary to contemplate doing it. Mrs Maple is just getting scared because in thinking about poly, she has started to think about all the things that could go wrong. You need to reassure her that nothing is going to go wrong, she is just going to have a new friend to help her around the house, and maybe lift some of the pressure she is feeling in the bedroom. I hope this advice helps.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

I think you need to reassure Mrs Maple that you are not looking to replace her, and that that isn't going to happen. I do not know what other things she is worried about, so I'm not sure what to suggest in that area. Just, reassure her that nothing bad is going to happen,

He can't do that. He's merely fantasizing at this point. There are no guarantees of smooth sailing, even if he had prepared for another year or two.

she is just going to have a new friend to help her around the house. Also put poly on hold for the time being, until you can get Mrs Maple to the point where she is not so worried and insecure. And if your own efforts to do that fall short, consider getting a counselor.

Yes.

Poly is not widely known and accepted, and it can be scary to contemplate doing it. Mrs Maple is just getting scared because in thinking about poly, she has started to think about all the things that could go wrong. You need to reassure her that nothing is going to go wrong.

He can't reassure her nothing is going to go wrong. Things go wrong in r'ships all the time. And polyamory/ENM is much more complicated than monogamy. Dating is hard. It can take years to find a good stable poly partner/r'ship. People can and do get hurt along the way. This woman already has social anxiety, so she's more vulnerable to hurt than some others would be.

she is just going to have a new friend to help her around the house, and maybe lift some of the pressure she is feeling in the bedroom.

 

[Magdlyn]

I have fought with my communication complications for many years, used to tip-toe around words all the time, now I try to be as blunt as possible while still trying to be diplomatic.

Sarcasm, joking around and being overly blunt hinder good honest communication. You need to be honest, tactful and respectful, and able to listen and validate other's feelings to do polyamory well.

Polyamory is not just about dealing with a stronger-than-normal libido.

I was aiming for the cohabit because I feel that Mrs. Maple needs more support from more people, she wants to get out and do things but has no one to do them with, is sometimes scared to make friends to do things, is very socially awkward and generally scared when its just her meeting new people and so on.

It sounds like Mrs Maple, despite being middle-aged, struggles badly with social anxiety. Yet, on the other hand, she does seem to have coworkers who are close enough friends to tell them about what a horny husband she has. So, I am confused why she can't have girls nights with these coworkers, or trade babysitting perhaps, etc.

I thought by the two of us doing this together, that she could feel more secure instead of the many stories I have heard where one person just opens the door and says "say hi to new partner" which almost never works.

I am not sure where you read about how to do polyamory. Probably reddit. Most of us experienced polyamorists date separately. We do not pimp out our partners or spouses. I personally have a female nesting partner. She has her own bf and I have my own bf, and we do not share partners. Also, we do not all share one big house, by the way.

She can get overwhelmed at times and might have an emotional outburst.

You mean get overwhelmed by your son? Or with friends? What kind of outburst?

Our youngest two are 12 and 4 yrs old. The 4 yr old is the King of Mayhem.

I understand having a high needs toddler/preschooler can be hard. I had one of those. But his sibs are 14 and 18. Don't they help with him, or do chores around the house? If they prefer not to babysit, can't you get a nanny a couple afternoons a week, or a sitter on the weekends?

Mrs. Maple did express some bi interest, but because of personal things that I mentioned, she became scared and filled with a lot of worry about what others would say, think or do because of it.

Her parents do not need to know about if and when Mrs M decides to have sexual experiences with women. Personally, I doubt this experiment is high on her priority list, as she even has trouble making friends. Maybe you're just pressuring her to imagine having sex with another woman while you watch or participate. Pro tip: bi women do not like to be with other women who are merely bicurious and won't even go down on them and whatnot. That just makes them feel like a sex toy for a couple. This all sounds like your own desire to have two women in the bed.

You might think you're being kind to Mrs M to include her in your desire for another partner. But you might be better off getting another partner and having sex with her on your own time.

The "selling" was my attempt to show her that it doesn't have to be all about sex, if at all, that we can start out slow, meet the person and see if we can at least be friends. If we can be more than that together, all the better, and in time, if it all worked out, the three of us would become a unit and help take care of our "new" family.

You're thinking as a "couple blob." We, we, we. Polyamory requires detangling. You both have different needs and desires in friends and in sex partners.

Maybe Mrs Maple would get hit on by a lot of men if she joined a dating site. Maybe she'd like some variety in male sex partners (if she's honest). Maybe someone with a lower libido would be nice haha

Middle child (second daughter) I think would benefit from having another adult to talk to being a pre-teen and hormones and trying to figure out who you really are, I think would be very helpful.

4 yr old would just see any additional person as another source for chocolate milk and candy, after every other person said no.

You're selling a new sex partner for yourself to everyone as a benefit to them. Yes, poly can benefit kids. But dating is the first thing. You don't want to introduce a new partner to your kids for months, in case it doesn't work out. And not all women you date will want to pull up stakes and move in with an established couple, anyway. Most will not. Date someone local, in your town or maybe one town over. That's close enough for convenience, without scaring Mrs M and making her feel like her territory will be invaded.

I think that 1 home would be best just because of the simple fact of money and being able to directly support each other.

another one of the "selling points" was that if we did have another woman, she could go out and have girl time, be out of the house and away from the kids, and maybe even me sometimes

Because of her insecurities, I do not think she could explore any possible bi-interest without me being there, she would be too scared to act because she would think that it was cheating or something. Even if I expressed a desire for her to explore and see what happens, she needs someone to save her on an emotional level.

If she needs "saving" in friendship situations, she's not ready for polyamory.

Oh, I am indeed a very healthy guy in that department. I have openly told Mrs. Maple that if I could have her to myself all day long, she would not be able to walk for a week, because we would not leave the bedroom. she both likes that and fears that.

My bf also has a very strong libido. So do I, but I am 68 and I do get tired out after a long weekend with 3-5 sex sessions a day lol. He's a lot younger than me. He is much newer to poly than I am. He has started dating. He has plenty of libido to go around, so I can at least relate to this.

However, just as a reality check, in the 2 years we've been together he has not yet found another steady gf. He's been on first, second and third dates with about seven women, I think? He's about to go on his third 2-night date with this one woman he's been seeing, but she's poly and has 3 other bfs, so he only gets to see her once a month.

And he puts a lot of work into dating sites and keeping in touch by text when he does find an interested, interesting woman. He's a good writer, a good listener, openhearted, kind and sweet and NOT a "sarcastic jerk."

Dating is hard. The dating pool for a married poly man is even smaller than it is for my bf, who is not married. Luckily he is mostly attracted to older women, because women his age are interested in a husband and kids, usually.

Its why she told me that she should share me with other women or her co-workers or just find another woman so she could have a breather, then pointed out the 2nd would need a breather too so a 3rd might be needed. all her words. I am 90% sure she was mostly joking.

Like GalaGirl, I think you both should stop joking and get a reality check. I think you're trying to do that here, which is good.

But she did bring it up to me on more than one occasion and indirectly did make an offer to one of our female friends. But I am not a one-night stand kind of guy; I make emotional bonds with the person and want them to stay connected to me.

I have been trying to keep the conversation with Mrs. Maple as casual about this as possible, once she started to react negatively towards this, because at first she was almost trying to pimp me out to her single female friends/co-workers that were having the itch to scratch and she would comment on things I do to her. (I take pride in my work.)

So for the most part, I do feel that this was started by het. But once the ball started to move, that was when she had issues come up.

Yeah, joking around is fun, but reality is not fantasy. This is a common rollercoaster when starting poly. It can seem great and exciting, and also scary as hell.

 

[Mr Maple]

@GalaGirl
I would love to let her solve all her issues herself, but because of her past, she is too scared to. At least, that is what I feel that is happening. She would find ways out of things, to avoid it, because she would self-destruct. "Reasons" make her not worth it or it's too complicated.

TBH, I am really the only person that she has. We live in BC, but she is from Rochester. She does have some friends, but her fears of being betrayed by a friend and left behind are strong. She had bad experiences with people who claimed to be her friends but were not. So she holds on tight to me as her only rock. But she needs other/more people. No one person can be the only rock that holds someone.

Doing it together, literally, is the only way I see her being able to do it at all. Just like how some girls will hit on a guy at the bar, while the rest of her friends are at another table watching for any funny business, Mrs. Maple needs to have me there to support her and act as her personal cheerleader, so to speak. But I have to be literally sitting beside her, sometimes, even for simple life interactions.

I understand the issues with "unicorn hunting," that there are many possible issues with even trying to find it. But I do feel that for our situation it would be the better one. I know that if I went off to another woman's house for a few hours, days, etc., she would end up with all kinds of turmoil feeling that I might never come back. I just want her to cook and clean the house, or whatever. But if the other woman lived in a house with us, if she did things with her, or not, would be 100% up to her.

As a guy, I would love to watch a live show. But it is not important.

I have tried, for a few years, to get my wife to go out, to have a ladies' night out. But she resists it a lot, and has even been called out by friends/co-workers to come out and go to the movies. If I was there with her, she would have a blast. I would be annoyed. She would laugh and talk and everything else. I would be silent. She clings to me for support too much. There are other people out there who would gladly hold her up and support her.

If we did have another person and they did more things together, I would be very happy that they could and did. Mrs. Maple is like the bird that used to fly high in the sky. But because she was hurt, is now scared to open her wings and fly like she used to.

In my perfect imaginary world, once every 1-2 weeks each person would have at least 1 "date night" with one of the others and there would be 1 with all three of us, or however many.

I know that she would be jealous at first until it became clear that she was not being replaced, that I still do and will have many desires for her because of how much I love her.

To me, this would be no different than having multiple children. You love them all the same, and there is no difference in how you treat them, but you do slightly different things with them.

If my wife and the other woman were going out together, more often than with me, I would point it out a bit, but ultimately be happy that my wife was actually going out and having fun with someone else.

There is more than enough bone on my end to go around. (You set that up. I had to use it.)

There are no openings. You have to register like 2 years in advance to maybe get a spot for daycare. @_@

I am not doing my fair share. I am actually doing more, when it comes to our 4 yr old. I tend to play with him and watch him directly or indirectly the most, but I do that naturally too. I'm the parent that is always tracking the children, because I can. (Sometimes it feels like she takes advantage of it.)

The 18 yr old is going to college in one week. the 12yr old and 4yr old are like cats and dogs 80% of the time, then I have to get involved before the wife does. (not good at dealing with kids all the time) so I mostly turn on TV for him when we just need him distracted. (no more Paw Patrol please)

I do 90% of prep for cooking dinner. I also do 70% of clean up, in general.

We tend to send the 4 yr old off to grandma's house for a week, here or there. Other times, it's to a babysitter for a few hours. Couldn't afford an actual nanny.

I would be more than happy for her to see a dr/therapist about her personal issues, but she would resist it and try to get me to come with her to support her, again.

I'm 100% ok with her having a GF or 50, so long as she is happy with it and feels that she can do it. I would love to be part of it, but if that is not her thing, then it's not.

Her kinks are being tied up, pinched, and nipped. She has also admitted to wanting to watch and be watched. But she isn't interested in other men. I keep getting conflicting signals from her.

I'm not really exaggerating much there. I am very happy to see Mrs. Maple and I constantly let her know that I have very strong sexual desires for her, any time she is ready. Every other day I will ask her if she is ready for a second round. 20/80 if it happens or not. So its mostly me joking around and trying to make her laugh and smile. But yeah, I do have a strong drive. I am not saying I am trying to hump every set of legs or anything, but if she hints at wanting to, I will drop what I have and chase her to the bedroom. That is where having a 2nd woman came from, her saying it, then commenting that her single female friends could really use a good time, offering to send me over. It was her idea.

I am all about my partner being comfortable and enjoying the entire experience until they are almost at the golden gates of beyond. I take pride in doing that.

I am a strong believer that no means NO!!!!!!! After is has been established that it is indeed a no, then I just play around, do puppy dog eyes, use cheesy movie pickup lines, then give her a kiss and do my Dr Claw impersonation of, "Next time, next time."

I cannot do the casual sex thing with a stranger. I naturally put emotion into the act, because I would only ever do that with someone who is important to me. I would be going all in, in more ways than one.

I know that she could never do it with a stranger either, because she would start to feel all kinds of insecurities about herself, and then about me deciding the other woman is better.

I have not done anything with another woman without Mrs. Maple's agreement and won't. It is her security and comfort that I worry about, because some things would bother her a lot more. I am a blade of grass in the wind. Very little bothers me.

I consider everything at this moment to be just fantasy until she is ready, if she ever is.

This might be TMI, but another reason that I would prefer to cohabit is that I don't pull out, ever. I literally can't. One of my kinks is everything to do with pregnancy. Getting her pregnant, seeing the belly, feeling the moving baby, her breasts. Even after the baby is born, I naturally place my hand on her belly, as if there is a baby still in there. I still do it to the wife, almost hoping to feel a baby moving inside her. She got her tubes tied. I don't understand it, but it is what it is. I love being a dad.

Again, it was the wife's original idea that she send me to her friend's/coworkers' houses. I just know that I would become attached and end up bonding with the person, and that for me, at least, I know it would become strange, because, on instinct, I would treat the other woman the same way that I would Mrs. Maple, walking up to her with kisses and wandering hands, because we did more than that.

She is the one making the suggestions. If the friend/coworker actually did say yes to it, it's 50/50 on my end on what I would do. I tend to go silent and side-eye the other person if they are in the room, while I go red in the face, not sure what to do and try to see what they think. Sometimes I do think she annoys the person with that comment. However, if both of them were ok with it, I would first ask if they wanted it to do a threesome, or just the two of us, and take it from there.

I had thought that this was something she was interested in, at least until I showed a willing interest in it too.

 

[Mr Maple]

@Magdlyn

My bluntness is more of stating something like you were reading it in a dictionary. This is that, it's what it is. I make my statement, then I follow it with something witty, sarcastic or drily humorous. I literally say what I mean then add an example in one of the additions.

While I do have a strong libido, it is not why I want to have a poly relationship. It's a bonus.

I don't understand her confusing openness to coworkers either, or why she hides from them. She has literally had them call out to her on the street and I had to point them out to her and bring her to them, just to have a friendly 3 min chat about X. I would love it if she could get at least one girls' night a month, or something.

"I am not sure where you read about how to do polyamory. Probably reddit. Most of us experienced polyamorists date separately. We do not pimp out our partners or spouses. I personally have a female nesting partner. She has her own bf and I have my own bf, and we do not share partners. Also, we do not all share one big house, by the way."

I read about poly all over. The different terms, styles, etc., made my head hurt.

She has been borderline trying to "pimp" me out. I don't do casual sex.

I felt that cohabiting was the better choice for a few reasons, first being that another adult in the home would be able to improve the stability of our family, there would (I hope) be another income to provide, having another person that isnt a child to talk to and maybe another voice to step in and cool any arguments.

The last one is important to me because I come from a broken home. My parents divorced when I was 12 and I saw how both of them destroyed their marriage. It was a team effort. I feel that another adult being able to tell both to stop and shut up would have been useful, as it did help when there were visitors.

She gets overwhelmed by our 12 and 4 yr olds rather quickly. I am very calm, sometimes scary calm. I can yell and scream like a typical '80s parent and sound like I am about to beat the kids to death. 90% is an act, but they don't need to know that. But it's very rare I ever have to use it.
I sit down and calmly try to talk it out. 90% of child care is on me, at least I feel it is.

"Can you please deal with X? I tried for 3 seconds and they are not listening to me."

The 12 and 18 tend to stay in their rooms on their phones. The 18 has a job before she starts college. the 12 can get overwhelmed by the 4-year-old and goes right to yelling at him for simple infractions. I have told her if she yells at him, I yell at her. So either talk nice to him like I do to her, or see how loud I can get.

She has brought up things that are typically bi-curious. She does make compliments towards women a lot, and some do have underlined sexual possibilities and meanings, things that if I said I MIGHT get charged with sexual harassment, if heard wrong.

I don't think it is high on her list. I do think it is there, but she is scared to even make an attempt. She is more interested in being intimate than actually full-on lesbian. She did admit that she could kiss a woman, and could be interested in sharing a sex toy. She got horny and we had sex because she worked herself up. @_@

A funny thing is (TMI) Mrs. Maple does like being called a sex toy, and other things, a lot. (All in a safe setting. If she says ow, it stops.) But I could never actually treat another or any woman like a sex toy. It's all or nothing.

Yes, I am thinking like a blob, because I want her to be happy and secure in anything that happens. If there is another woman and she has no sexual interest in her, but really enjoys her company and friendship and we hit it off too, it works for me.

She tends to eye roll any time amother guy hits on her. She is very closed off to any of that, but will gush over women giving them to her and give them right back.

Her only "issue" with my libido is that it's more or less powered by an arc reactor. 5 mins or less. We had 3 rounds once when the kids were at grandma's. She was dead in bed for the entire day because I know every spot, all of them. Literally not kidding.

When talking with Mrs. Maple, I lay it all out. It's no different than trying to sell a new car, a new house, etc. Here are the perks, here are the cons. What do you think? I think that Perk A, B and C are really good selling points. What are your concerns?

If another woman lives with us, we can actually buy a home together (shitty market).

As for introducing them to the kids, it would at first just be as "new friend" while the dating thing is going on. But yeah, they would not meet kids till a few months of good contact going on between the two of us.

My nature is that, I can only ever have a wife. There is no side chick, no friends with benefits. If my dick is going into her, I treat her just like a wife. I am very open to having more kids, even though our oldest is only 18, I cannot wait for her to have kids too, so I can spoil them. I am also an uncle to 5 kids. When they were babies, I would not have a problem with feeding or changing them. It's literally no different than how I would deal with my own kids.

I want my wife to be happy. I am the kind of person where, if you tell me you are interested in X, we will talk about it and see what happens. But I think she is stopping herself from trying it out. The last thing I want is to force her into anything, ever.

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more info.

Awesome, you are a sex stud. Your wife loves it. How about we set that aside for a moment? You bring it up a LOT, while it's not a problem area.

I would love to let her solve all her issues herself, but because of her past, she is too scared to, at least that is what I feel that is happening, she would find ways out of things to avoid it because she would self-destruct that "reasons" make her not worth it or its too complicated.

TBH I am really the only person that she has, we live in BC but she is from Rochester, she does have some friends but her fears of being betrayed by a friend and left behind are strong, she had bad experiences with people who claimed to be her friends but were not. So she holds on tight to me as her only rock but she needs other/more people. No one person can be the only rock that holds someone.

You sound like you are burning out being her "life raft" person. Are you?

Is she "allergic" to taking personal responsibility?

I would be more than happy for her to see a Dr/therapist about her personal issues, but she would resist it and try to get me to come with her to support her, again.

So, why not go together to help her set up? And then after a few sessions you drive her, but wait in the lobby, instead of going in. Then after a time of that, you leave her to her individual counseling. Drop her off, run some errands and come back. And then eventually she drives herself.

Or you could see a couple's counselor to start. Are you willing to think about that?

Do you struggle with seeing her struggle, so at the slightest resistance, you fold? Honestly, if she's THIS messed up, I can't see how she'd make a good poly partner. She's not coping well with life basics. She needs to get on her own two feet first.

She clings to me for support too much when there are other people out there who would gladly hold her up and support her.

Is this like caregiver shadowing and crippling social anxiety?

Are you able to tell her, "Hon, I need a break. Here, hang out with X while I hit the bathroom and get a drink," or something, and maybe take your time getting back, chatting with people?

I consider everything at this moment to be just fantasy until she is ready if she ever is.

It's probably best for now to leave it at fantasy.

When do you consider YOUR long-term wellbeing? Are you doing ok here, or is this starting to become a drag? Are you making your life revolve around her? As much as you love her, you aren't really getting much quality of life for yourself.

She gets overwhelmed by our 12 and 4 yr olds rather quickly.

Just throwing it out there-- would she rather be non-nesting coparents and alternating care so you both get breaks from the kids? I mean, if you are doing most of the parenting load anyway, what really would change, other than you getting more breaks, and her too?

She tends to eye roll any time a other guy hits on her. She is very closed off to any of that, but will gush over women giving them to her and give them right back.

She has been borderline trying to "pimp" me out. I don't do casual sex.

Is this like "late in life lesbian," but not ready to own it or deal with it? Kinda-sorta trying to get you hooked up with a new lady, so she can feel less guilty leaving eventually, because you were "taken care of"?

I feel that cohabiting was the better choice for a few reasons. The first being that another adult in the home would be able to improve the stability of our family, there would (I hope) be another income, another person that isn't a child to talk to, another voice to step in and cool any arguments.

What causes INSTABILITY in this family? Would the "other adult" need to be a family therapist?

The last one is important to me because I come from a broken home, my parents divorced when I was 12 and I saw how both of them destroyed their marriage, it was a team effort. I feel that another adult being able to tell both to stop and shut up would have been useful as it did help when there were visitors.

That sounds like personal work you could attend to.

You have a LOT of layers going on here.

I think you may have to identify what they all even are, before you try to think about changing anything.

Once identified, maybe try to figure out what is just your responsibility (broken-home stuff), what is her responsibility (social anxiety stuff), and what are shared responsibilities (the children and childcare.)

It cannot be all on you.

Galagirl

 

[ref2018]

Now this might be TMI, but another reason that I would prefer to cohabit is that I don't pull out, ever, I literally can't.

What does living with someone have to do with whether you (can) pull out when you have sex? I fail to see how one follows from the other. ELI5, please.

 

[Magdlyn]

What does living with someone have to do with whether you (can) pull out when you have sex? I fail to see how one follows from the other. ELI5, please.

Just a guess, ref, but I think he has the idea that if he has sex with another woman, she must be fertile, it must be bareback and it must involve PIV until he orgasms in her vagina.

He isn't imagining he might have sex with a menopausal woman, or use a condom, or have sex that isn't PIV, such as using a hand or a mouth.

He says he's a rigger and ties the Mrs up. I guess it always ends in PIV. Why couldn't it end in oral, or someone's hand finishing things off and the ejaculate going elsewhere than in the pregnancy zone? Because he has a breeding fetish, apparently. So, of course he wants to get this hypothetical unicorn pregnant and have her living with him and the Mrs, where Unicorn will give birth and her baby join in the mayhem to get yelled at by an "80s dad." Sounds great!

 

[ref2018]

Just a guess, ref, but I think he has the idea that if he has sex with another woman, she must be fertile, it must be bareback and it must involve PIV until he orgasms in her vagina.

I want OP to answer, since he enjoys being blunt and explicit so much.

 

[ref2018]

He isn't imagining he might have sex with a menopausal woman, or use a condom, or have sex that isn't PIV, such as using a hand or a mouth.

I forgot to ask: What if she's on the pill or Norplant or has an IUD or something (I don't know everything there is out there these days)? Does she have to go off birth control in order for OP to get hard/be able to cum? (Actually this question is directed mainly at OP, but I'm just making sure because Mags left it out of her text, and she covered just about every other possibility.)

 

[Mr Maple]

@GalaGirl

I was not trying to make it sound like I was some kind of sex stud or anything. I was trying to reply to each section of the question/comment.

Yes, I am, but I'm fine.

I think it's more that she fears being blamed for things, or that she might be attacked over it.

I feel that she would make any kind of excuse not to go at all. I would be more than willing to go with her, but I feel that she NEEDS to have me there to also use as an escape, so she could redirect things at me when she doesn't want to admit to her own faults, where I will bluntly admit to mine, starting with an "Aww, fuck. I did that," then move on.

When she does feel that she has support, that there are people right there who will protect her if needed, then she can be her more normal self.

It's more like, she needs to know that I am there. I can step in and save her and back her up. But I should also 100% take her side any time of any day, because she is my wife. I do not, if she is wrong, then she is wrong.

I can leave and do things. But she is normally withdrawn from life, reading a book or on her phone because that is her other safe space. On her phone she will troll people and shrug because there is no accountability to her actions there.

When no one is home, I decompress the most by doing anything I want, mostly video games or anime.

My life revolves around avoiding making conflict with her, lots of redirections or pacification. She knows I do that at times, but probably not how much I do it.

I also tend to be protective of the kids when she has her emotional breakdowns over things, making sure I am the target or in her way.

I know how to put on a mask and redirect people's questions, if I am okay. I'm fine.

She would think I was trying to get rid of her, that I no longer loved her and any other way you could say it. On more than one occasion, she has made the statement of wanting to kill herself. I am sure it's out of frustration, but you never know.

I get along with the kids just fine. I listen to their every word, and even if it is 100% wrong or just silly, I still listen. I love being a dad.

I don't know, she is 41 yrs old now. I don't think she would want to leave or anything like that.

When I say stability of the house, I mean just life, like the cost of living, each person having another rock to hold on to if the other one isn't there, someone that can tell you that you fucked up, or any other kinds of human support that any spouse could give.

Family instability can also be that we do have some clutter around and have to fight with the kids, mostly the 4 yr old, to clean up. Nothing really bad, just annoying. It's an everyday thing. So when she comes home from work after the 3rd day of that same pile of blocks that were still being played with on the floor, she can have a meltdown.

I think I do maybe 70% of the in-home stuff. I clean up the most. But because I have ADHD, the trash bag I filled is from all over the home, and not just one room. Where she does 90% of the shopping, and gets mad over it, at times.

She has a lot of stress in her, but that's not an excuse.

 

[Mr Maple]

@ref2018

I guess I should have explained that better. Me having sex with any woman = I love you and want to have you with me every step of the way, like a wife.

I'm not sure how to explain not being able to pull out. But it's like, if I cum inside, it's saying something about how I want to keep her as mine.
Not only do I feel the release inside her, but her body reacts to it when I do. On that note, Mrs. Maple is my first and only sex partner.

The woman's level of fertility isn't important, be her having menopause, on the pill, etc., what matters is that if I am having sex with her, then it's because I love her. More kids would always be a bonus to me. I am even willing to adopt kids. But it's not a must.

@Magdlyn

Mrs. Maple isn't experienced in the other acts, and doesn't know what she is doing or how to do it. I tried to get her to watch a cheesy porno, but she started blushing like Hinata in Naruto and walked away. I have enjoyed her attempts at oral, but she is like a virgin.

Mrs. Maple wants to be tied up. I just want to make love to my loved ones, taking lots of care to reach every spot that makes them feel good and melt their brain at the end, when I then finish off.

In one year, I had to raise my voice maybe three times. To me, that is a lot. It was only to get the attention of everyone that needed to smarten up. I know how to pretend to be mad. Other than that I have a very calm relaxed, or goofy presence. Think of a Jedi without the mind powers, that can also be a clown.

Another woman would not have to have a child with me. It would not be unwelcome, but if she does not want to have any, it's not an issue.
If she already has kid/s I would treat them as if they were my kids, because I don't know how to not do that.