Reverie
Active member
THAT is a VERY GOOD POINT! The last thing I want is to inadvertently make that shizz permanent!
How to overcome hatred of marks left?
- Thread starter Reverie
- Start date
THAT is a VERY GOOD POINT! The last thing I want is to inadvertently make that shizz permanent!
starlight1
Active member
I agree with gala and schrodinger, you have to face it to overcome it.
One more thought, would body paint be permanent? , also might need to wait for wounds to be healed but could but band aids on and paint over top lol. Anything at this point is worth a try, also I think there's liquid band aids that work pretty well to keep any infections out, might be a good investment outside of this issue if he likes this play.
SchrodingersCat
Active member
Infection isn't a major risk with proper needle play. You clean the skin first, use single-use needles, and swab again after you remove them. As long as you don't immediately go out rolling around with pigs, you're fine. The punctures are so small, the skin heals them right up.
I don't even think the henna "tattoo" thing is that big of a risk, just that it's a vague possibility to be aware of (hence test first). I mean, when they do it for tattoos, they poke fairly deep, through the top few layers. They don't just put henna on top, they rub ink right into the punctures. Firmly. The henna on punctures might stain for a while, but the ink won't go deep enough to actually tattoo.
starlight1
Active member
Both of us made assumptions on the type of needle play. yours in assumption on proper and mine improper. For me it's prepare for worst and hope for best. Lol.
Whew, this has been a hard thread for me to read. I was also triggered by bruises with an ex. In his case, they were hickies given him by a new gf of whom I did not approve.
This was last summer. I had given him one small hickey on his chest accidentally. He came to me the next time with a HUGE, like 2 1/2" across in both directions, hickey, over the one I had given him. From Her.
Stupid ex told me he'd thought I'd given him the hickey to mark him before he saw her, and told her to give him one as a message to me in return. Now, this might work with metas who were friends, but she was new, and I barely knew her, and he was also courting her husband, and they were new to poly, and the husband was jealous, and they had 3 little kids I felt they were neglecting, while they were thinking with their genitals, etc etc. It was a mess. There is more to it as well, but I won't bore you all.
It didn't help that when I told him I didn't appreciate that enormous hickey, and the way he'd requested her to give it to him as a message to me, and how I'd even had to have sex with him in the almost pitch dark, two dates in a row, til it faded to a reasonable light green, that the next time I saw him shirtless was at a garden party also attended by his new lovers. There was a pool there, but only children were swimming, except when he and his 2 new lovers joined the children (which I thought was strangely exhibitionistic, especially since that couple were giving each other deep tongue kisses lasting several seconds, several times, in front of the children, as if to turn my my ex on).
So, that time, he takes off his shirt and shorts, revealing his bathing trunks and his bare chest, and this time, he has no less than SIX hickies in a circle all around his left chest area surrounding the nipple. Let me just say, my ex was a 61 year old man, not a clueless teen or young 20something guy. His new gf was 41. I just thought it was gross. To add icing to the cake, this couple were not out as poly, no one there except me knew they were lovers, and people at the party might have thought *I* gave those six hickies to my ex, as we were a known couple. Inappropriate! First he requested she give him one big hickey as a message to me, next he chooses to go shirtless at a large outdoor daytime party, flaunting even more hickeys in front of all and sundry.
He was, I later figured out, a psychopath, a narcissistic Don Juan who was reveling in triangulating his lovers, me against them, husband against wife. I broke up with him a couple weeks later. It had taken over 2 years for me to see his true nature.
So, long story short, I do feel that his choice to get the hickeys, and my revulsion to them, were related to our failing relationship, and his delight in pitting his lovers against each other (by his own admission, he liked the complications and the drama). He loved being the center of attention, even if it caused one or all of us pain.
I know this because I've seen marks, from love bites, from bondage, on my gf, with whom I get along like gangbusters, and all I feel is pleasure at her pleasure, complete compersion, and a little bit of arousal thinking of her having that kind of fun with her other partner.
So, I think inyourendo might have been on to something... Especially when you now explain how your bf took up with this new woman as a former triad with you and another woman was exploding. He took on a lot, exposing you to it, forcing you to deal with a new r'ship of his in the midst of a near breakup with you, and actual breakup with another.
So now, the needle bruises might seem like he is flaunting his new lover in your face, right during your most intimate sexual moments.
This was last summer. I had given him one small hickey on his chest accidentally. He came to me the next time with a HUGE, like 2 1/2" across in both directions, hickey, over the one I had given him. From Her.
Stupid ex told me he'd thought I'd given him the hickey to mark him before he saw her, and told her to give him one as a message to me in return. Now, this might work with metas who were friends, but she was new, and I barely knew her, and he was also courting her husband, and they were new to poly, and the husband was jealous, and they had 3 little kids I felt they were neglecting, while they were thinking with their genitals, etc etc. It was a mess. There is more to it as well, but I won't bore you all.
It didn't help that when I told him I didn't appreciate that enormous hickey, and the way he'd requested her to give it to him as a message to me, and how I'd even had to have sex with him in the almost pitch dark, two dates in a row, til it faded to a reasonable light green, that the next time I saw him shirtless was at a garden party also attended by his new lovers. There was a pool there, but only children were swimming, except when he and his 2 new lovers joined the children (which I thought was strangely exhibitionistic, especially since that couple were giving each other deep tongue kisses lasting several seconds, several times, in front of the children, as if to turn my my ex on).
So, that time, he takes off his shirt and shorts, revealing his bathing trunks and his bare chest, and this time, he has no less than SIX hickies in a circle all around his left chest area surrounding the nipple. Let me just say, my ex was a 61 year old man, not a clueless teen or young 20something guy. His new gf was 41. I just thought it was gross. To add icing to the cake, this couple were not out as poly, no one there except me knew they were lovers, and people at the party might have thought *I* gave those six hickies to my ex, as we were a known couple. Inappropriate! First he requested she give him one big hickey as a message to me, next he chooses to go shirtless at a large outdoor daytime party, flaunting even more hickeys in front of all and sundry.
He was, I later figured out, a psychopath, a narcissistic Don Juan who was reveling in triangulating his lovers, me against them, husband against wife. I broke up with him a couple weeks later. It had taken over 2 years for me to see his true nature.
So, long story short, I do feel that his choice to get the hickeys, and my revulsion to them, were related to our failing relationship, and his delight in pitting his lovers against each other (by his own admission, he liked the complications and the drama). He loved being the center of attention, even if it caused one or all of us pain.
I know this because I've seen marks, from love bites, from bondage, on my gf, with whom I get along like gangbusters, and all I feel is pleasure at her pleasure, complete compersion, and a little bit of arousal thinking of her having that kind of fun with her other partner.
So, I think inyourendo might have been on to something... Especially when you now explain how your bf took up with this new woman as a former triad with you and another woman was exploding. He took on a lot, exposing you to it, forcing you to deal with a new r'ship of his in the midst of a near breakup with you, and actual breakup with another.
So now, the needle bruises might seem like he is flaunting his new lover in your face, right during your most intimate sexual moments.
Norwegianpoly
New member
we need to stop labelling our exes and people doing stupid things as psycopaths. Not every reckless person having a hard time settling for compromise have antisocial personality disorder.
SchrodingersCat
Active member
That doesn't mean none of them actually do. I've heard enough of Mag's story to believe this isn't one of those cases of calling someone a psychopath when they're merely reckless. Of course, you can never be 100% certain, even with a psychiatric diagnosis (they make mistakes all the time, mental illness and mood disorders are notoriously tricky to properly diagnose). But she's not the type to throw around terms like that when she really means "doing stupid things."
I don't see this kind of labelling going on here at all. There are some cases where someone's behaviour does seem to meet the DSM criteria, and while obviously we're not qualified to diagnose strangers over the internet, that doesn't mean we can't point out possible indicators and encourage the poster to investigate further.
Reverie
Active member
Wow, Magdlyn, I'm sorry to hear about your trouble. That all sounds REALLY awful! Thankfully, I am certain that my boyfriend is not a psychopath. He's actually really gentle and squishy and compassionate for the most part, and if anything, up until really recently, he had trouble saying no to people or asking for what he wanted. He can be kind of dense and oblivious and easily distracted in a moment, though. He seems to have learned a lot since he first started being interested in this new woman (November-ish), when we went through those troubles, and he has made it clear to me that he will make concessions to try to make me comfortable. Despite the inconvenience to me, I was actually kind of proud of him that he stood up to me to continue doing what he wanted, instead of feeling pressured by me and caving and then feeling like I was keeping him from it.
If anything, I worry a teensy bit about HER being the flaunt-y one, because she self-admittedly (to me, in a private conversation) has a history of being manipulative to guys, insecure, and lonely, plus she's really smart and is a sadist. The combination of those factors has me on my tiptoes, because my boyfriend's ex used to manipulate the hell out of him, and it's low-hanging fruit because he can indeed be pretty malleable. I've chosen to take the high road and teach him to shore up those weaknesses, rather than exploiting them, but it has been tempting once or twice. So far, though, she's never been anything but nice to me directly; I'm cautiously optimistic to see how she complies with the new guidelines.
The new guidelines, which he brought to her yesterday, were that they use smaller needles, puncture only on the back or other areas that will not be generally visible to me during sex, ice afterwards, and refrain from messing with the needles while they are in. He said that she told him that messing with the needles while they are in adds to the bruising, and though it is a fun sensation for him, he is willing to forgo that part to make me happier. They came up with that on their own. He did not tell her that it was me who was freaked out by the marks, but rather just told her that he does not like them and does not want to see them on himself (which is also true; while he did tell me he had a flash of pleasant remembering when seeing them, he'd prefer, in general, not to be marked up).
As for me, I tried last night to keep my eyes closed during sex. Ha, that was weird. I didn't realize how much I depend on the visual of him to reach orgasm. I will keep trying it if I need to, and I know that I can have fun having sex even without reaching orgasm; sometimes, it's just about connecting and closeness.
Thanks, Schrodingers.
Norwegian, you don't know me, you obviously didn't read my pain filled blog about all this shite from last spring and summer. I don't think there's a need to say what "we" need to do about labeling people we know. I struggled for a year trying to figure out what the fuck was going awry in our relationship, and with much support from other savvy members here, and doing research on psychopaths/narcissists, I finally put the pieces together and therefore got out of the situation when I realized why he had such a lack of moral center. It wasn't just his Asperger's, it wasn't that he was "Zen," or polyamorous, or a man who loved women. He just thrived on manipulating people and using them as objects for his narcissistic supply.
Thanks! It's taking me a while to recover. Didn't help that I ended up dating another one this past winter/early spring. This time I recognized the signs and got out early.
OK, I believe you and all, but my ex seemed quite squishy and gentle, nature loving, a feminist, and all that... for the first year. Sociopaths are excellent at hooking compassionate women and "mirroring" their normal emotions, until they hook you-- and then their true agenda and lack of actual personality comes out.
Well, that sounds good, but...
Yeah... I've been involved in BDSM for 6 years now, and I think SO many Dom types have severe issues, and can only dominate in a relationship because they are limited and don't have fully mature compassionate, open, loving personalities. It's very frustrating, because I like to play the sub sometimes (I am a switch), but time after time, Doms fail me after one date or a few dates because they turn out to just be... losers!
They turn out to be insecure, have low self esteem, are depressed/suicidal, come from bad childhoods, need therapy but won't get it, are bad communicators, maybe have a revulsion to body fluids (won't kiss or do oral), etc etc. Sometimes they get lost in Top space and go too far with the impact or bondage play... ugh. Sometimes they seem to feel a discussion about the sub's limits reduces their power as the Top.
Sometimes the sub can end up feeling like a sex toy, not a full person, to their Dom. Sometimes they suck at aftercare, or aren't even aware it's required. Some will come right out and admit they like torturing subs who themselves have low self esteem or outright self-hatred. It's a game filled with landmines, and I am sure many with experience in BDSM will agree.
A good Dom/me will have the well being of their sub/slave in mind, and the D/s play can help the sub grow, mature, become more assertive, brave, fearless, successful and happy in their vanilla life. But these kinds of D types are so few and far between, ime.
Of course, a healthy D/s dynamic can also help the Dom to grow and become a mature actualized person as well. Nobody is perfect, and Doms are flawed human beings just like their sub, even though they are the ones nominally in charge!
So, it sounds like you're a Domme as well? Almost seems like you two are vying for who is the top dog, instead of collaborating for the benefit of your subby bf. Therefore, the bruises she gives him, instead of being a turn on for you, are a sign of someone else having their way with your toy boy, and it makes you uneasy. Because... you don't trust her to have his well being really in mind for the long term. What do you think?
Reverie
Active member
I'm actually not very dominant by nature at all, and also pretty new to kink, but I've been really growing into the role with my boyfriend, because he enjoys it so much, and it's awakened something in me that I never knew was there, and I've been getting really into it. We do switch sometimes, but for the most part he's in the sub role, and I'm finding it quite groovy.
But yeah, I do feel like she gets a little competitive or something, just very slightly. In an IM communication from her to him that he relayed to me, she asked him if I was "too sweet" to give him rules to abide by, and it made me feel like she was trying to undermine his confidence in my ability to, as a newbie, step into that role for him. And, honestly, I am pretty sweet and new at this stuff, and she's actually really experienced for someone so young (25), having been in the scene pretty much since she was legal. It's such a SUBTLE competitiveness, though, that it makes me question if it's real, and certainly there is plausible deniability.
In my experience in kink (five years in the scene), that would definitely be an undermining statement. What would the purpose of it be, other than to be undermining? Is she offering to help you out, newbie that you are?
I'm sure she could couch it in terms of "oh, I was just trying to be helpful" and I wouldn't guess, from what you've said, if this is a slightly competitive thing, or a deeply insecure and competitive sniffing around to figure out the best place to start putting wedges in, but I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her.
Reverie
Active member
Well, so, she DID then give me some guidance of what to say to him, and teach me some rope things, in the interest of full disclosure. But one on one to me, she's acted like she was approaching me as an equal, if not slightly deferential, but then behind my back, as this communication was, it just felt like she was saying "aww, widdle baby kinkster doesn't know what to do yet!" rather than "your chick seems cool, and I'll show her the (literal) ropes," y'know?
But, yeah, I am trying to be warily optimistic, with emphasis on the "wary." I won't TRUST her, per se, until I know her a lot better and she has accumulated a positive ratio of benign to questionable remarks. I am just...to be honest, after the ever-present drama-storm with the last metamour, and the fact that this one is LDR and therefore not someone that events turn on daily...I am just leaving well enough alone for now. If my boyfriend can get some measure of joy from knowing her, and she and I can get along most of the time, I'm going to try my best to be at least as encouraging as I am vigilant. Time will tell. I trust him to listen to me if I see things starting to seriously go awry.
Norwegianpoly
New member
I don't read that as if she is asking if you are doing well, but if you are dominant enough in nature. Probably not compared to her. It is not something that can be taught much, either, it is just either you have it in your personality or you don't. Can you live with her being more dominant than you?
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
This question begs the more competitive angle, which Reverie seems to be attempting to steer away from. Take away the labels and props of BDSM and you just have two girls fighting over a guy's affections, which is something she isn't looking to get sucked into again, judging from her comments in this thread and in her blog.
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Inyourendo
New member
Thats exactly what I was talking about. Claire ia gone and now Kelly seems to be stepping up into her place. I guess that's kind of the nature of being with a poly man though, not having ALL of your partners time. That's why I like a more exclusive approach to metamores, I know reverie wants to be very involved with riders other partners and be included in their time together as well but I feel like that causes a lot of unnecessary stress. Like that weekend at the bar, had reverie not been their on rider and Kelly's date she would not have been upset about rider focussing more attention on Kelly (touching) her leg. She wouldn't have been upset that Kelly positioned herself between her date and his girlfriend, and she would not have been upset about the messy apartment or the inside jokes. She could have simply chose to let rider have uninterrupted fun with his other partner.
On the other side Kelly is relatively new so she kind of has to be on her best behavior and probably accepted r elverie being there on her weekend with rider but what happens in the future? This could cause some serious conflict if she feels like her time is being intruded upon. I know if I travelled to see a guy the last thing I'd want is a jealous girlfriend tagging along. I wouldn't want to feel like walking on egg shells for someone else's feelings. I might be willing to play nice in the beginning but eventually it would get old and I'd get resentful. It would cause me a lot of anxiety worrying. I'd also start being resentful that I wasn't free to just relax with the guy I travelled to see
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FallenAngelina
Well-known member
No, that's not the nature of a poly man, that's just one of many possible dynamics that can develop: competition for time and affection. It's very possible to spend time with a lover and metamour with a cooperative rather than a competitive vibe. Judging from her very detailed blog, cooperative and appreciative relationships with her metamours is what Reverie wants and that is certainly possible. Feeling in competition is what the needle marks bring up and that is what's difficult because Reverie strives to be welcoming of metamours. I really commend her for being honest with herself and for looking deeply at a difficult reaction that brings up difficult emotions.
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Inyourendo
New member
Oh definitely, she's working hard. But what happens when rider gets with other partners that don't want the same levying inclusion? I know Claire didn't so she was dumped but what if Kelly doesn't want to be in a group relationship? Sounds like she's willing to now but in the future she decides that she's no longer willing to do group dates/sex with a metamore? This is a very real possibility.
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
Well, this is something for the three of them to work out, but certainly not by getting into a pissing competition or in this case, leaving marks on the man. Anything that "marks your territory" is very primal and deeply rooted in competition for resources and it just seems to me that Reverie's aspirations are to talk about this kind of stuff instead of to get involved in a symbolic branding war. Her experience with Claire really clarified for her that she greatly prefers to be on cooperative terms with her metas, at very least. Not sure if "group relationship" is what she is going for, but certainly camaraderie. If potential metas are not into that or unsure, then that's a discussion to be had.
Reverie
Active member
Honestly, I don't think about it much. As long as he and I both like what we do in the bedroom (I certainly do, and I also have no doubt that he does, given that he repeatedly tells me that sex with me is the best he's ever had), I don't feel like I need to be more or less of anything to please him. I do feel like I have been learning, whether or not it can be taught; for me getting into the mindset is more about discovering a buried side of myself, and it's just the little tricks and techniques that I'm working on learning. He says that I am a really quick study and have taken to it pretty naturally. I had a dominant/sadistic kind of side as a child (and I think everyone does) that I civilized into a polite, deferential, spider-saving vegetarian, and I think that, for me, it's about getting in touch with that more animalistic side of myself that is capable of hurting people for their own pleasure. It's really weird, but also cool, to take a walk on that dark side again.
Yep, nope. I really want everyone just to get along and play nice together. I'm here trying to work through my own difficulties on my end of that. I'm making progress, too!
FYI, I am not "tagging along." When she comes to visit, she's visiting him in his natural habitat, which includes me. He wants me there. Any partner that he might have will be aware of that, and the situation is "opt-in" for them. Either they want him, with his actual situation in place, or they don't. They get their alone time, and they also spend time with me. We have decided after the last situation that we are only going to start new things up with people who are willing to be friendly, and if that limits our dating pool, then so be it. Both of us would much rather have a few compatible partners here and there over our lifespan than have many incompatible ones just for the sake of having them.
Thank you for this. Once in a while, I come away from these threads feeling judged and scolded for having emotions and for having problems that I am trying to solve. I wouldn't have opened an advice thread if I weren't looking for ways to make things better than they already are. My blog is a place for me to pour out the minutiae of my day-to-day process with a lifestyle that is, at just under two years, still pretty new to me in the scheme of things. I'm still stabbing around in the dark, to some degree, and figuring out what I want, and deciding what works and what doesn't FOR ME. I know it won't always be easy, but the most rewarding things never are. And I know I have a lot of growing left to do; it's part of the reason that I write here—because I am a verbal processor who learns most easily by writing and speaking. You seem to really understand me.
Not every relationship is right for every person. It is not just "my policy," but also that of my boyfriend, that partners be willing to be inclusive. He likes it way better this way. He doesn't write on this board, or he'd tell you himself. You make it sound like I have made a unilateral decision for everyone, but that's not how it is. He wants things a certain way, and I want them that same way, and we are actively seeking partners who want the same relationship style that we want. It's the same type of preference as wanting a poly relationship rather than a mono one, or wanting an open relationship as opposed to a polyfidelitous one. I think Kimchi Cuddles called it "kitchen table poly"; if it's not for you, then it's not for you, but it is our preference, and we are pretty determined to make it work.
Also, if you followed my blog closely, you would know that Claire and Rider separated MUTUALLY—both came to the discussion knowing that they were irreconcilably incompatible, and both decided to end it. It was hard for both of them, but neither was "dumped." You seem to have a misguided notion that I put the screws to Rider and made him dump her. While it is true that I shined light for him on the unhealthy patterns they were in (like any friend would for any friend), and that I was unwilling to be a party to it anymore, their decision was their own, and I can tell you that they are both doing a lot better since they separated, even though it is bittersweet for them. Surely, you know of other situations like that. I feel that you have cast me as a villain here, and undeservedly.