I am the "outsider" in an open marriage

K

kingtone

New member
Hi all,

I am the third person in an open relationship, meaning that the woman I am involved with, Yvonne, is married. We were involved as teenagers and then grew apart and had different relationships. She got married and has been with her husband Karl for 8 years (4 of those married.) They have both cheated on each other during their marriage.

As our friendship grew closer, Yvonne told me they had decided to have an open relationship, and I jumped at the chance to be involved with her again. After a few months, and getting used to sharing her, we have settled into a nice rhythm. She and I are in love and Karl knows it. He also has a girlfriend, Reba.

Going into this, I knew I would have to share her. I am pretty open-minded when it comes to sexuality and lifestyle choices, but sometimes I am jealous of Karl. I want to spend more time with her and have more than just occasional meetings that we work around her marriage. What do I do? I love Yvonne, and she makes me happy, but I also know Karl makes her happy and that she loves him too. How do I balance what I want and not lose what she has and loves? Anybody out there in the same position?
 
Not to dwell on semantics, but you are not jealous, you are envious. There is a difference and it would be good for you to get clarity on that right now for future use. You can read up on that here easily doing searches.

The rules and flow of poly relationships require new skills. Balancing time is one of the biggest ones. You really have no choice but to master this. or bail out and decide that polyamory is not for you. It's perfectly doable. Lots of us do it, so don't get discouraged. But it is new to you, so take a deep breath before tackling the learning curve.

Whenever you are involved with someone who has already established a life, patterns of living, maybe involving kids, schedules, commitments etc., it takes some time to restructure all that. Think about your own life. Just keep working at it, making small adjustments when/where possible that move you all towards a place that's as balanced as you can get it. It will never likely be equal. Accept that (everyone). Just strive for the best fit and then decide if that's enough to make you happy... or not.
 
Maybe you could involve yourself in their lives. After all, Yvonne doesn't come alone. She is part of a unit, and you are part of a unit. Being a unit together is the next step after working out a schedule. Really though, this is what you signed up for. If it's not enough, and you are a monogamous person, then I suggest you find someone that is dedicated to just coupledom. It's not fair to her that this be an issue you expect to have worked out. It just won't be. Time management and lack of time are just how it is. If you are not willing to let her go, then find something to do that fulfils you. Don't make her responsible for your happiness. She isn't, you are. You are an independent person, regardless of what you decide to do.
 
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Thank you, GS. That is just the sort of advice I was looking for. I am new to this. I knew that there would be bumps and hang-ups along the way. I was just wondering how other people managed it. As I said, I love her and I want her to be happy, and I realise that her husband and her life outside of me makes her happy.

Redpepper, I get from the sounds of it you are a seasoned poly veteran. I still have things to learn in this situation. But what I resent is you addressing me like a child, and implying that my life outside of my relationship isn't fulfilling. I never said I wanted to change her existing life; I just wanted advice on how to deal with me wanting to be with the woman I love. I don't think that's an unreasonable desire, but I am an adult that knows that desires can't always be fully met.

Thank you again, GS. :)
 
My gf Pixi's bf Martin is partnered with a woman, Miss L, who lives with him. Pixi and Martin have worked out a once-a-week overnight schedule. Pixi goes to Martin's place on Friday night, and Miss L is usually there. Once in a while, she goes out for the evening. One time she was out of town, which of course gave them more freedom. They are also flexible, in case special occasions arise with them, or with Pixi and me.
 
This is extremely cliched advice in the poly community, but... communication is the way to go! Tell Yvonne that you'd like to spend more time with her without damaging her existing relationship, and try to figure out together if there's a way that could happen. For instance, could you guys plan a special, two-day weekend getaway together some time this year? It seems like a lot to ask, but if you give it enough time in advance, and she clears it with Karl, well, it's just two days.

Regular, once-per-week get-togethers have helped me a lot in my relationship with a lovely married lady. Having that regularity has made it feel less like, "Well, we fit into each other lives if and when we can."
 
kingtone said:
Redpepper, I get from the sounds of it that you're a seasoned poly veteran. I still have things to learn in this situation. But what I resent is you addressing me like a child, and implying that my life outside of my relationship isn't fulfilling. I never said I wanted to change her existing life. I just wanted advice on how to deal with me wanting to be with the woman I love. I don't think that's an unreasonable desire, but I am an adult that knows that desires can't always be fully met.
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Well, I'm sorry you read it that way. I don't think you're like a child, at all. Sometimes I write too fast, and the way I say things doesn't come across the way I mean them. Writing on the internet can be tricky. :)

All I am saying is that independence from a poly love is important and part of the turf. If it isn't working for you, now that you are settled into a routine, then perhaps poly isn't for you. I dunno...

I can imagine that it's hard to be away from her. I know some mono people that have been unable to be with poly people because it can be incredibly lonely when they are not there.

My monogamous boyfriend (Mono is his screename here) prefers tons of alone time. Me being poly works for him. It was really hard when he didn't live with us, though. (He has his own suite of rooms in the basement.) One of the things that helped was he became involved in my family. He started hanging out with my husband, and our son. In time, it was obvious that living together was the next step to being closer.
 
kingtone said:
I am new to this. But I knew that there would be bumps and hang-ups along the way. I was just wondering how other people managed it. I love her and I want her to be happy. I realise that her husband and her life outside of me makes her happy.

Thank you again, GS.
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You're very welcome.

One thing, whether you've considered it or not, that could help a lot, is integration. Depending on how Yvonne and Karl (and Reba) are structuring and navigating this, there may be opportunities for you all to be together. How do you get along with Karl? Are you guys comfortable being around each other? The more you can integrate all your lives, the more time you'll be able to be together.

This is an ideal, of course, for some-- "kitchen-table poly." Everyone gets to various levels of this. For some, it's practically nothing; they prefer "parallel poly." For others, it's truly a communal "marriage" (in the general sense of the term). But definitely, the more you all have in common and can be drawn together on, the more time you will spend together.

Now, this doesn't imply private (sexual) time. But I didn't assume that was what you were referring to. That's a whole different subject. If that is what you are wishing for, let us know, because the discussion changes.

Glad to have you on board. Don't be shy.
 
Thank you all so much for your advice and counsel. It is very reassuring to know that there are people who have been through just what I have.

We have been away on a trip away. (It was one of the best trips of my life.) Even though Karl was fine with us going, he didn't want to know about anything that happened, even where we had dinner. One of his main problems is that he's not really all that cool with the fact that I'm Yvonne's ex. We have a history, and I think it makes him insecure. From what I know of him, he's a nice guy, and I love that he makes my girl happy, but he continues to resist chances where he and I might meet and establish common ground. I don't begrudge him for that. I guess it would be hard to know your partner sought out an ex to help solve your marriage problems, or adjust the marriage so it fits better with what both people want.

I don't just want sexual time with her (although the sex we have is fantastic). I want to spend more time just being with her, without taking away from her time with her husband. As I said, I know that she loves him and he makes her happy. Conventional relationships have never really worked for either of us, and I know that she needs this as much as I do. I have offered to take her, Karl and Reba all out to dinner, so we can have some time to get to know each other, but he refuses.

Poly is for me. I have never thought that one single person could be the be-all and end-all of a person's whole life. I have always been adventurous. But I am drawn to Yvonne. I love her so much.

Our rhythm has been settled around Karl's reactions. It's fine for him to spend as much time as he can with Reba, but when it comes to our time, he restricts it. We can't even go to the movies at peak times because he's worried someone might see us together.

I know that because we're new to this, it takes time. I don't want to be a wedge in their relationship, something that they can't deal with. But I don't want to give her up, either.
 
kingtone said:
I have offered to take her, Karl and Reba all out to dinner, so we can have some time to get to know each other, but he refuses.
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Have you tried asking Karl to go out, just you and him? Having the four of you go out together seems double date-ish... Karl and Reba, you and Yvonne, paired up. That's really going to emphasize that you and she are together, which is exactly what he seems to not want to think about right now!

If you and Karl have any shared interests, invite him out for that. Or if you don't, go for drinks. Just two guys, getting to know each other, not talking about Yvonne or polyamory.

Once Indigo actually got to know Mr. A, he was able to make bigger steps in his struggles with jealousy. Here was a guy he knew and liked and had a reasonable amount of trust in, who he could see liked and respected him, as opposed to some guy with unknown intentions, who thought god knows what of him.
 
That's actually a good idea, one I hadn't thought of before. Like I said, I like Karl, from what I know. He's a good guy with a good heart. I don't want to hurt what they have. But he knows I love his wife. He's okay with it. Maybe he just needs some time to get to know me.

Thank you for your advice, TruckerPete.

This is a new learning experience for me. I thank all the people in this community for helping me. Thank you, all. :)
 
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redpepper said:
He became involved in my family and hung out with my husband.
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TruckerPete said:
If you and Karl have any shared interests, invite him out for that. Or if you don't, go for drinks. Just two guys, getting to know each other, not talking about his wife or polyamory.
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kingtone said:
That's actually a good idea, and I haven't thought of it before. Thank you for your advice, TruckerPete. This is a new learning experience for me. I thank all the people who are of this community for helping me. Thank you, all. :)
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Sorry, did I not say that?

*sigh*

Never mind. Maybe you blocked me. :confused:
 
No, you didn't say anything about that, Redpepper. Again, I resent the fact that you have a superior attitude about this. So far you have not offered constructive help, just attacked the way I am living my life, and I am sick of it. I joined this group to get advice, not to hear people sigh at me and believe that I don't know what I'm doing. If you don't have anything that can help me, then please don't comment. I really could do without your harsh comments :mad: while I work through this.
 
redpepper said:
Sorry, did I not say that?

*sigh*

Never mind. Maybe you blocked me. :confused:
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[chuckle] Don't worry, RP. It's not a competition.

Everyone has their own way of taking in information. It might seem to you like you said the same thing. I think the OP might've read your original post the way I did-- that you were saying Mono got to know your hubs by hanging with the family. It didn't sound like you were saying, go out with just the hubs, at least, not the way TruckerPete said it. No biggie.

The good thing is that some good info was shared here with the OP.
 
nycindie said:
[chuckle] Don't worry, RP. It's not a competition.
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Yeah, not competing, just having one of those moments today of feeling completely unappreciated and like I am talking, but am invisible... One of those, "Why do I fucking bother?" moments, ya know? All my own stuff, I think. :p
 
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make anyone feel out of place, but sighing at me and telling me I need to grow up doesn't help. Again, I get you're an old hand at this, but you haven't offered any help, just criticism. Please, if you can't say something to help, Redpepper, please leave this post alone.
 
kingtone said:
Our rhythm has been settled around Karl's reactions. It's fine for him to spend as much time as he can with Reba, but when it comes to our time, he restricts it. We can't even go to the movies at peak times, because he's worried someone might see us together.
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This isn't fair. Can Karl go to the movies with Reba at peak times? Is he afraid of people seeing him with his gf? Perhaps he feels studly to be seen with another woman, but diminished if his wife is seen with another man. This is sexist, of course.

Since this couple has a history of cheating previous to opening their marriage, I would think they have some trust issues to work out.
 
Magdlyn said:
Perhaps he feels studly to be seen with another woman, but diminished if his wife is seen with another man. This is sexist, of course.
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It definitely supports the idea that women are possessions to be collected, and manly men don't let their women hang with other guys. If it looks sexist to me, it's got to be bad. :eek:
 
Uh oh, we agree on something for once? Quick, go ride your Harley or go punch somebody! :p
 
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