I'm in over my head

Oh, I didn't know she was there with you. So great you two took a trip together and are reconnecting! :)
 
Yay you!

I'm so glad you're having an amazing time. No matter what else happens (and in marriage, a lot happens), you two are the core. And that core needs the kind of nurturing and pampering you're doing. So, yay you!
 
And as we bring our evening to a close..

... I can only wonder at the oddness of it all. The American Ballet Theater company performing Don Quixote at the Metropolitan, dinner at an excellent Italian restaurant, and now, off to bed.

Night, folks. Its been a stellar day.

Talk to you all tomorrow,
Freetime

P.S. Welcome to the fun, FHC. There are some very good people here. You'll fit right in.
 
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Amongst all the craziness...

... is a great deal of love, light and laughter. This week has been one of the best times of my life, and one of the most touching of my marriage, for me.

I've had a few unexpected sorrow-filled moments, but most of this trip was spent in love and laughter. As we get ready to go out tonight, after a fantastic time in NYC, I've noticed Tess making every effort to love, touch and compliment me on everything from my looks to my touch. Anyone struggling with a mono partner should pay attention to this, as it carries great power in overcoming fear and worry.

Yes, I know Tess isn't leaving me, yes, I know Mike isn't trying to take her away from me, but when the angry little monkey gets scared, what he knows and what he feels are two entirely different things. So that's where Tess's efforts make a huge difference.

I don't always need reassurances; most days I'm good to go. But it sure feels amazing and powerful when your partner of 20 years notices and acknowledges you. I'm working on improving and focusing on what I see Tess doing for me/us in this journey, the things she's saying and doing to make this transition easier for me. NRE sometimes gets her focused on Mike, but that's to be expected. He's a good guy who's really into her, and what man or woman doesn't appreciate and enjoy that?

I'm off to my first polymory event tonight. I will let you know how it goes.

Rollercoaster ride:
Saturday: Aaaaaaargh! Ack! Pain! More pain!
Sunday: sniffle sniffle sad sad
Monday: Sad, happy, joyful in love
Tuesday: Happy, joyful in love, sad, more love
Wednesday: Love, light and laughter all day long

Polyamory-- why doesn't it come with a map?
 
Really?

Old, tired and replaceable. I'll be married 20 years tomorrow and I'm wondering: what was the fucking point? No idea.

I have glimpses of this working out. I'm meeting some very cool people I otherwise wouldn't have, and have had some truly awesome experiences in these past 3 months. I'm forming some close friendships/relationships, and for that I am very grateful. No way I'd be where I am without them. You know who you are. :) Thank you.

But I have a life to rebuild, and I'm on my own there, so I have some decisions to make. Too much. Just far far too much.
 
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MorningTwilight said:
What happened in the last six days that took you from "love light and laughter" back to a dark place?
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Reality. There's not one area of my life not in flux, changing, or in danger of tipping over. I'm not in a dark place, just one that needs a lot of attention and I'm feeling pretty much on my own to deal with it. wah wah snivel snivel.

I know what I need to do, I just don't know how right now. And I'm pissed off, at, well... just about everybody, but mostly myself It'll pass. My days are easy compared to 90 days ago, but that doesn't mean I'm happy, joyous and free, 24/7. Well, at least not yet.

What I'm really pissed off at right now is the feeling I got played.

Story: "If it's too much, or isn't working, we can stop, take a break, walk away." What was inferred here is "without regret or remorse."

Reality: if we do stop, take a break, or walk away, it'll be a sad, sorrow-filled experience that will only lead to an unhappy marriage or divorce.

The story gave me a sense of say in all of this that didn't leave me feeling like a selfish self-centered asshole. Oh well.

The reality plays out entirely differently, as we've seen. Grrr...

Tess is happy. A new friend explained it like this: Tess gets to experience all of her life now, and not hide, or withhold that part of herself from you. Asking her to stop would be asking her to live a smaller life then she wants/needs. Good for all involved, or so I'm told. Tess and I have had some truly sublime moments of late in our lives. Touching and significant.

But it's painful at times to watch my wife having the time of her life, emotionally, sexually and intellectually, while I struggle with my stuff, ya know?

But that's not the issue, not really.

Me? I want to be completely self-supporting in all areas of my life again, and that's not happening fast enough for me. I'm impatient.

Creating a company, or getting a job, gives me options I don't have right now. Getting a degree creates opportunities also not available to me at present. So, for now, I'm along for the ride, regardless of what happens, and that, my friend, isn't just annoying, it's very embarrassing.

I'm not a stupid man, but I've been careless with my life, and I am now facing up to just how much work I have in front of me to correct that. Painful.

I'm not even certain I should be posting this here as the real issue isn't poly, it's my lack of self esteem.

I'm forming friendships/relationships with members of the opposite sex. Intimate but non sexual... at this time. I've gone for long walks, great talks and have been asked out on a date. Awesome, fun and flattering, to say the least. I'm very grateful to have this in my life right now, and stunned anyone's interested. Sure feels good, though.

Old, tired and replaceable. I'll be married 20 yrs tomorrow and I'm wondering what was the fucking point? No idea. This will pass, I hope. But today it is what it is.

Thanks for asking, MT. Gave me reason to look.
 
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I find it very interesting how parallel what we have been going through is. I think we both have a lot of the same issues (even if we write them differently).

I really think Tess just needs to stop poly-dating altogether for now, and give the concept time to sink in. If you are like me, it's going to be a hard change to accept. If Tess is as supportive as she seems, I'm sure she can take a break, and at least get back to what was comfortable for you, while you adjust to the change in ideals.
 
Freetime said:
The real issue isn't polyamory, it's my lack of self esteem.
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Create a post in the blog sections (post a hyperlink back to this post), then you can post whatever you want :p

I want to be completely self-supporting in all areas of my life again, and that's not happening fast enough for me. I'm impatient.
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Your not alone on this one. I've been working on this, myself.

I'm forming friendships/relationships with members of the opposite sex. I've gone for long walks, great talks and have been asked out on a date. Awesome, fun and flattering, to say the least. I'm very grateful to have this in my life right now, and stunned anyone's interested.
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YEAH! This is a very good thing. I think we can get so caught up with home life, that we let these things slide, and then finally we look around and say, "WTF! I used to have lots of friends."

It has taken me nearly 9 months of knowing I needed to do SOMETHING to actually making the step to be in a position to have new people around me. First I had to get my head on straight and fight some depression (still working on that one), then I had to decide what I wanted to do. I have been working up to going to a group, researching them, etc., for 3-4 months, then after 2 visits, I just jumped right in. It felt like everything was moving in slow motion for months, then all of a sudden it was full speed ahead.

It's so cool to know others that have many of the same interests as I do (stuff my husband has no interest in).
 
Thanks SNeacail, Beodude123. I appreciate the advice and feedback.

Here's the thing though, for anyone new to poly-- what's the real issue here? Time after time I'm finding out that what I thought was the problem really wasn't.

Gotta run, be back later.
 
Freetime said:
Tess is happy. A new friend explained it like this: Tess gets to experience all of her life now, not hide or withhold that part of herself from you. Asking her to stop would be asking her to live a smaller life then she wants/needs. Good for all involved... Tess and I have had some truly sublime moments of late in our lives. Touching and significant.

But it's painful at times to watch my wife having the time of her life, emotionally, sexually and intellectually while I struggle with my stuff, ya know?

But that's not the issue. I want to be completely self-supporting in all areas of my life again, and that's not happening fast enough for me. I'm impatient.

Creating a company or getting a job gives me options I don't have right now. Getting a degree creates opportunities also not available to me at present. So, for now, I'm along for the ride, regardless of what happens, and that isn't just annoying, it's very embarrassing.

I'm not a stupid man, but I've been careless with my life. I am now facing up to just how much work I have in front of me to correct that. Painful.
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Ahh, Freetime, we are all works in progress. The other day I was thinking about how old I am (51) and all the many things I've not accomplished nor experienced yet. I made myself really sad. I started to criticize everything about who I am and how I have lived my life. Now, what is the purpose in that? Sure, have goals and make a five-year plan, break it down to: "What do I need to do today?" to get there, but beating yourself up isn't the way.

It's like we have a lovely little flower, sitting in a pretty flowerpot, and then we take a hammer and smash its blossoms, yelling "Grow! Damn it, grow!" Growth needs nurturing, the right nutritious ingredients, and patience.

As far as Tess having the "time of her life," while you struggle, that's the thing about marriage. Sometimes partners take turns, like playing leap frog. You'll feel like you're stuck on the ground, while she leaps carefree ahead of you. But remember that she needed your support to do that. There will be a day when she turns around and supports you, while you leap ahead, and she seems to stand still. In marriage, you may be equal partners, but not always equal in experience.

Be kind to yourself. You are doing fine.

I think you're a gem. Really, I do.
 
nycindie said:
Ahh, Freetime, we are all works in progress. The other day I was thinking about how old I am (51) and all the many things I've not accomplished nor experienced yet. I made myself really sad, depressed, and started to criticize everything about who I am and how I have lived my life. Now, what is the purpose in that? Sure, have goals and make a five-year plan, break it down to :"what do I need to do today" to get there, but beating yourself up isn't the way.

It's like we have a lovely little flower, sitting in a pretty flowerpot, and then we take a hammer and smash its blossoms, yelling "Grow! Damn it, grow!" Growth needs nurturing, the right nutritious ingredients, and patience.

As far as Tess having the "time of her life," while you struggle, that's the thing about marriage. Sometimes partners take turns, like playing leap frog. You'll feel like you're stuck on the ground while she leaps carefree ahead of you, but remember that she needed your support to do that. There will be the day when she turns around and supports you, while you leap ahead, and she seems to stand still. In marriage, you may be equal partners, but not always equal in experience.

Be kind to yourself. You are doing fine. I think you're a gem. Really, I do.
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NYCindie, you made my day. Thank you.
 
Seriously, Freetime, you're doing amazingly. I've pointed people to your thread a couple of times and I always say, "But don't expect (your partner) to move as quickly as Freetime. I've never seen anyone work through their shit that quickly!"

Focus on how far you've come, not how much is left in the journey. Only one is within your control.
 
I tell lies

It's true. I do. I reread this entire thread, making sure I was paying attention to what advice was being offered up, when I noticed I seemed to obsess on one particular idea/comment made more than once throughout this thread.

I've done this by hiding a lie inside a truth. (It's a gift, what can I say?)

I'm going to parse the 1 comment into 3, and offer up comments on exactly how and where I place the lie. Sound like fun? Okay, let's begin!

"If I ask Tess to stop/slow down, she would."

In my posts where I say this, I infer without regret, remorse or consequence, which is just not the case at all. Tess has made it very clear that doing this would, in fact, cause all sorts of emotional upheaval. You don't offer someone a puppy, and then tell them they can't play with it anymore a week later, without creating anger, sadness and confusion. I tell/believe this lie because it creates the illusion I can turn this off anytime I want to.

It's true T would stop. It's not true without regret, remorse or consequence.

I tell this lie because it gives me a sense of control of this journey.

"But I cannot/will not ask that of her, because it would only delay the inevitable and stop her from living the life she was meant to."

This is my John Wayne feel-good moment, where I ignore how badly I hurt, and how frightened I am, and decide to take one for the team.
Where I say "cannot/will not" is a lie. I can, I have, and will do so again. Because of my fear of the consequences, I always reverse my stance and soldier forward, eating a big bowl of fear with my Cheerios in the morning. I am much more comfortable now about all of this than when we started, but I am by no means fear-free, or convinced this is going to be good for me.

But I am trying.

And as for stopping Tess from doing anything? Good luck with that. I tell this particular lie because I sound, at least to myself, more like a loving caring husband and less of a selfish bastard.

"And I'm not that guy."

Yes, I am. It's pretty clear by my actions I am exactly that guy. I'm just trying really hard not to be.

But I am getting better at it.

So what is the purpose of this wee reality check? I'm not sure, but it helped to do it.

"If I asked Tess to stop/slow down, she would. But I cannot/will not ask that of her, because it would only delay the inevitable and stop her from living the life she was meant to, and I'm not that guy."

I love you, Tess. I truly do. I hope when you read this thread that you see that (the love), and how hard I'm trying, baby, but I need a break. I'm tired, sweetie, real tired. You have to let me go for a bit. I know that scares you, but I will come back. Promise.

Happy 20th Anniversary, baby,
Freetime
 
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Slowing down is very different from stopping. You've done a lot of processing and work; I don't think it's unreasonable for you to need her to slow down while you mentally catch up, so that you're in better shape to tackle the next bunch of work that inevitably needs to be done.

What sorts of boundaries have you got now? How can you expand on them to allow yourself a little breathing space?

I mean, when you're feeling good, you probably don't hesitate to give her more freedom, relax your existing boundaries. So why do you deserve any different? :)
 
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This is going to sound kind of selfish, but at the same time, I don't think it is all that unreasonable. But at what point do you stop sacrificing, so she can be happy? If you aren't happy, I'm sure it brings Tess down, as well. She has decided to come forth with the change. I don't think it's unfair to wait for you to be okay with things before moving on.

When Jen and I went in, we pretty much got right into things, and it was waaaay too fast. I know it's been hard on Jen, but I think the most important part is for you two to be okay, right? There is obviously a lot of internal struggle with things for you.
 
I don't even know what "slow down" means, TP. Less lust? Less texting? Less talking? Less truth? Which one should I ask Tess to slow down on?

There have been only a very few days in the past 80+ that were fear-free. I treasure those days, and I am grateful to see myself getting more in tune with reality, but asking Tess to slow down just doesn't work here. It's dishonest, in my opinion. Tess is acting out right now, fully exploring and expressing her emotions and desires, for maybe the first time in her life. Much less pretense, much more truth. It's pretty raw at times, but NRE and self discovery are, in their own right, very powerful. She's growing into the woman the universe always meant her to be, and when I look at her as my best friend, I am joyful and excited for what she's experiencing and for who she is swiftly becoming.

How do I slow that down? Why would I want to?

Fear tells me to slow down, stop, run away or go back to what was.
Love tells me to encourage, support and embrace my wife completely in this.

Polyamory pervades my thoughts, feelings and activities. But even so, I have a much bigger pie to eat than poly. I'm not just trying to save my marriage, I'm trying to save my life.

However, I do need to slow down or stop the mental, emotional spiritual rollercoaster I'm currently on, and go get right with myself and the universe. All of this internal work/struggle/growth has left me weary.

I want to take a road trip, TP. Go to the west coast for a few weeks and hang out with people who, like you, cared enough for one scared human being to reach out and offer hope.

This scares Tess, and in a way, me too. We've never, not once, in the 20 years of marriage, spent more then 10 days apart. Tess is afraid I won't come back. I'm afraid she won't want me back.

So there we go, my friend. Thank you for encouraging and supporting me through this, TP. You're a truly awesome human being.
 
Freetime said:
I want to take a roadtrip to the west coast for a few weeks and hang out with people who, like you, cared enough for one scared human being to reach out and offer hope.

This scares Tess, and in a way, me too. We've never, in the 20 yrs of marriage, spent more then 10 days a part. Tess is afraid I won't come back. I'm afraid she won't want me back.

Thank you for encouraging and supporting me through this, TP. You're a truly awesome human being.
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You know, it might be good for you to take that road trip, and for her to experience some of the same fear that you've been dealing with, not as a punishment, but as a tool to bring you closer together. By facing the fear, and having you come back to her after your trip, she might have a better understanding about how you fear that you might lose her and your marriage on this journey. (Plus people on the west coast are awesome.)
 
P.S. Your location description is awesome, being that I'm from that town, and it's far too accurate. Yeehaw Time is just round the corner!
 
Freetime said:
I want to take a road trip to the west coast and hang out with people who, like you, cared enough for one scared human being to reach out and offer hope.
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WOOHOO! ROAD TRIP! :)

Freetime said:
This scares T and me. We've never spent more then 10 days a part.
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Perhaps it's time, then?

I sometimes wonder if people spend too much time 'together' in marriages. I see friends in long-term relationships with too much time together develop various symptoms, like co-dependence, loss of individual identity, initiative, and a multitude of others.

My wife and I don't always enjoy the amount of time apart that is sometimes required. However, I don't think it's done us wrong, in that in being together for almost 18 years, we still usually have a pretty good idea of 'ourselves.'

I've always found taking road trips to go stare at the Pacific to be a great way to re-centre.
 
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