Into the void.

Aftershock

New member
Being divorced has left me with a lot of time to reflect. On a lonely walk I was musing to myself and reminiscing about some of the couples I met while swinging. I also remembered how often I would be a third wheel to friends who were a couple. Having always liked the idea of being polyamorous I thought, well, now is the time. The time to find something meaningful and so begins this new journey. This is not an ad. I'm just working through what I think I would like and what could work. Possibly being with a straight couple as I am straight or, moonshot, with a couple that has a girlfriend or possibly two couples. I'm a bit unusual in that a mfm would be great since I think there could be more intimacy. In the swinger lifestyle everyone is fulfilling fantasies which is fun, but one often runs into the couples rules and having to be discrete although they often change the rules but didn't invite you to the meeting lol.

So here I go on this journey. I'm in no hurry, since I'm in my 40's it's not about conquests. I want to take the time to find the right people. Feel free so say hi!
 
Welcome to the board. You could try reading the book Opening Up to see what polyamory really is. It is not dating a couple, or being a member of couple and swapping partners with another couple. That is still more of a swinging mindset. Most polyamorists do not take part in group sex (sorry to burst your bubble). Polyamory just means you have the option to have multiple partners who all know about each other and consent to that arrangement.

Trying to date couples has its drawbacks, as you are aware. It's no different being a "unicorn" for a couple whether you are swingers or poly. You still have to negotiate boundaries, you can still run into couple privilege, you still might be asked to be "discreet" and not introduced as a partner, etc., etc. You might get to negotiate dating each person in a couple individually, but some newbie "poly" couples don't even want to do that. They are stuck in the mono mindset of "We date as a couple." "You can only date us or have sex with us when we are both there, but we can date just the two of us or have sex just the two of us."

Polyamory means "many loves." It does not mean threesome or foursome sex.
 
Thanks Magdlyn, I will keep that in mind. I am not preoccupied with the sex component, I just wanted to address it and get it out of the way. I actually spend most of my time figuring out how I would fit into a situation and what that actually means. Thank you for clarifying if I would be a type of Unicorn, I was wondering about that lol.

I think I need to re-read The Ethical Slut as maybe that's how I come off. I can be kitchen table but it seems my experience in a type of Z precludes me from going any further. 🤷‍♂️
 
Greetings Aftershock,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

I am in an MFM situation myself, so I can testify that it's a good combination. I hope you find something like that for you. If there's any way I can help let me know, if you have any questions just let me know what they are. You sound like a cool dude, I'm glad you could join us.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

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Welcome aboard!
 
Welcome.

I'm just working through what I think I would like and what could work. Possibly being with a straight couple as I am straight or, moonshot, with a couple that has a girlfriend or possibly two couples.

I guess that's a place to start thinking if you were used to swinging experiences with couples or friends with couples.

But you know you can poly date only 1 person in a couple? And/or a poly single? Or someone else in another couple? It doesn't have to be dating two people in the same couple?

Don't know how fresh the divorce is. But take your time reading and figuring out what it is you'd like next in your dating life.

Galagirl
 
Hi GalaGirl,

Thanks for the response! I know about not having to date the couple, I've met some polyamorous people throughout the years. Just being open to it and meeting people is about all I can do. I can intellectualize it all I want but you gave me a clue about the essence of it.

Thank you!
 
I never wanted to date a couple, but when I was first on the dating scene (after a long marriage and divorce) I got hit on, on OK Cupid, by several couples. I just couldn't see myself engaging with both members of an established couple at once. What if the woman was hot but the man was a gross slob? What if the guy was cute and sweet but the wife was a jealous bitch trying to set rules for me all the time?

I figured out it would be like hitting the lottery to find a couple where I was about equally attracted to both of them and they were both quite attracted to me, and didn't have jealousy issues and make me into the rope in a tug of war.

I did have a first date with a guy once, and he brought his wife. He seemed really interesting so I'd agreed to have her come along if he really wanted her to. They were both nice. We had a decent threeway on the second date, then I had 2 more single dates with him. But they turned out to be flaky, and going through some life issue shit, so that was that.

It's not impossible to find the right couple to date... I had a friend back then who had a couple she'd been hanging out with and having sex with for years. They'd have threeway sex, but then the guy would poop out first and the women would continue having sex for another hour or so lol

I'm in a long-term relationship with my gf (14 years now), and back in the day we tried to share one of my bfs and then later another bf. It never worked out. it was always kind of awkward. And then I dated a guy for a while who, after his NRE for me started to wear off, was attracted to my gf and kept trying to get with her, even though she'd told him she just wanted to be friends. That got really creepy and I had to break up with him. It gave me nightmares for a while.

So since then, my gf and I have not had her be around my bfs much anymore, so nobody gets the wrong idea. That's just us though. 2 bisexual women in a relationship is like the ultimate fantasy for most men. We have to head off their fantasies before they get started. Now we both have our own long-term bfs and everything is nice and balanced.

I read the Ethical Slut back in 1999 and didn't find it very helpful for me at the time. Since then, lots more ENM books have come out and I think Opening Up is the most helpful.
 
Thank you Magdlyn, this is very helpful and I understand your reservations about relationships with couples. So if I understand all of this, I can be with a woman in a relationship and I can be with another relationship with another woman so long as everyone knows they are not my only partner? So it's like being a single guy but you can be with involved people lol. O-k... I read some reviews on Opening Up, I'm surprised how many people said it's a little out dated.

As with most of the poly references I have come across this is all designed as if I was already in a relationship and decided to open it up to other people.

I do appreciate your experience and everyone's insights, this is why I am here, thank you.
 
I'm going to agree that Ethical Slut, while useful to some people, is now outdated. That doesn't mean you shouldn't read (or re-read) it. But there are many better ones. Designer Relationships might suit your needs, since you seem to be exploring options and figuring out what you want, exactly.
 
Thank you Openbook23,

The reviews said the same thing about Opening Up. I know what I would like and what could work but it's just not likely. Every time I embark on this journey I hit the same wall. Being patient, having no expectations, and meeting interesting people is really all there is.
 
Yes, you can absolutely be a solo guy and date any one poly woman, or a mono woman, if she's fine with being mono while you're poly. And you just establish the understanding that you both can continue to date others if you wish. So, you're in a relationship, but you're still on the market, so to speak, until you find another good person who qualifies as a partner (could be more, but many people are at their emotional and time limit with 2 partners, unless there are long distance, infrequently seen partners in the mix).

My gf's bf (my metamour) is (in practice) mono. They've been together about 8 years and he's fine with just having her spend about every weekend with him, or more time if she's available. He's rather introverted and wouldn't have the bandwidth to carry on two relationships at once. He's "allowed" to date others if he wants, but he just doesn't want to.

I've also had bfs who didn't date any others while we were in relationships.

So, for both me and my gf pixi, we each have a gf and a bf. But her bf Malachi is not romantically involved me, and my bf Aries is not involved with pixi This is called a V. I am the hinge of a V, with pixi as one leg and Aries as the other leg. And likewise, pixi is the hinge of her own V, with me as one leg and Malachi as the other leg.

The four of us don't often hang out as a group except for the occasional holiday dinner or a night of D&D. Generally I spend the week with pixi, and on the weekends she goes to her bf's house and my bf then comes to this house.

My bf Aries is poly. He's been open to other relationships since we met. He has been on a few dates. Nothing has worked out yet, even though he's gone on a few first and second dates. Maybe the newest person, with whom he's been on 2 weekend long dates, will work out. But she's quite busy and he said she's only going to be available maybe once a month. I think she has 2 other bfs. (Or maybe she'd call them play partners; I don't know.)

In working polyamory, Vs are much much much more common than triads (where each person is involved with both other people).

Opening Up is geared to couples in some ways, but don't be deceived. There are working poly principles in it that apply to everyone, things about time sharing, jealousy/envy/loneliness, money management, long distance relationships, NRE, communication skills, who meets where (hosting), what about kids?, hygiene (changing sheets and whatnot), discretion (not sharing TMI between partners), dating woes and issues, breakups. It also addresses the differences between polyamory and swinging.

I am not sure how basic poly principles can become suddenly outdated after a few years. I will take a look at the Amazon reviews and see what is meant by that. I think Ethical Slut made out poly to be all about large kinky sex orgies, which it certainly is not (usually).

My gf and I started our relationship as open/poly. So we didn't have to try and change a long term mono relationship to a poly one. That is difficult. Many people try to do that, since mono is the norm, but poly is becoming more popular and people are seeing it's more ethical than cheating and more convenient than serial monogamy (and divorce/remarrying).

Polyamory is popular among young people, but they often fuck it up, because at that age you don't know yourself well. You can barely communicate and negotiate with one partner and manage to get along, much less juggle 2 or more relationships at once. Polyamory is not superior to monogamy, but it is harder to do just because there are more moving pieces. It's more like chess, and monogamy is more like checkers.
 
OK, I looked at the Amazon reviews. 73% were 5 stars, 19% were 4 stars and the other 10 percent were 1-3 stars. Some complained it was too conservative, some complained it was too racy. You're not gonna please all the people haha.

I guess it could seem conservative to some because it stresses healthy deeper dyad relationships over more casual fun play partner/FWB relationships. But polyamory means "many loves," not "many fuck buddies," so mature relationships with actual love are discussed. (Although someone complained it was more about sex than love. lol)

One person complained that they didn't want to know what queers did. (!)
 
Thank you Magdyln,

You and everyone have been great at helping me piece this together. Fortunately I have some friends that can help me out on this in the real world.

So long as I am open and honest then being with anyone is a possibility while using communication and being authentic.

The way in which I misunderstood polyamory was that I thought there was a different kind of structure. While there are a plethora of structures and arduous terminology it seems at its root to be about open relationships. Everything else just comes together as people meet each other and so on.

There seems to be an elitism in polyamory and that swingers somehow pervert the way of loving people because of their tendency to focus on recreational sex as opposed to relationships. Yet. I've seen a lot of poly profiles and websites like Fetlife that encourage people to share their polycule, z, w, fore-x, coven structures along with their sexual interests.

So in a nut shell, just do what I did the first time, join a poly group site, raid a couple of swingers sites, throw in a couple of dating profiles with ENM and I'm good to go lol.

Thank you all, this has been an adventure so far.

This is where I found the reviews about Opening Up:
 
Thanks for sharing the Goodreads reviews. No book or information source is going to be perfect, and I always take everything with a grain of salt, take what works, and leave the rest. One reviewer prefers the More Than Two book, and I have gotten use out of the website of the same name. However, there has been scandal around the authors not practicing what they preach. We have a thread on it here.

This review points out the old-fashioned aspects of Opening Up (2007):

I recognize that the world has come a long way in 12 years and that I myself might have made the same mistakes in 2007, but they grate just the same:
Using the word "transgendered."
Only mentioning someone's race or ethnicity when they're not white.
Speaking as if everyone who realizes they're bisexual automatically wants to go off and find partners of another gender.
The assumption that all mixed-orientation marriages are non-monogamous.
The complete absence of any mention of asexuality.
Taormino writes as if interviewing 125 non-monogamous people for this book provides all qualifications needed to write about every topic that intersects with non-monogamy, particularly the LGBTQ community.
The book predates the legalization of same-sex marriage in the United States by 8 years, so everything around that topic is outdated anyway.

In the grand scheme of things, my nitpicks are relatively minor, and clearly a lot of people have found this book helpful.
 
I don't know if poly people look DOWN on swingers, but it's definitely a different mindset in many cases, even if both are ENM. Most Swingers I know have rules against emotional attachments. One of my gf's good friends is basically a swinger. They ardently avoid catching feelings. If someone starts to catch feelings, that relationship has to end! I guess that's fine, if you really want exclusivity in your emotional relationship, which seems to be the goal in swinging. Sex is fun. Go have sex with other people, but don't fall for them!

But of course, feelings happen, and then swingers face all the drama that ensues. If it breaks up the relationship, some will blame the ENM. You put the emotional exclusivity at risk, and now you are paying for it!

Polyamory has amory built right into it. Falling in love isn't just possible, but for many it's the goal. That requires changing the mono-normative mindset. You have to get rid of exclusivity and possessiveness. As an aside, I think that would be healthy for most mono couples to do as well, but it's practically a necessity for poly to work. And the thing is that neither exclusivity or possession is necessary. We are taught that both are if it's 'really' love, but it's just not true. That doesn't mean everyone should be poly. Do what feels right for you. But those of us who embrace our poly side have to do a lot of emotional/social work to adjust those expectations. For some, it might not be worth it.

For me, it's opened up whole new levels of love. I am fully in love with two people, not just one. It's amazing. Neither of partners are threatened by the other. Sadly, my gf's partner (my metamour) IS threatened by me. That's a shame and is very hard on my partner. It also limits what we can do as she tries to manage his feelings. He's getting better at it, and I think he wants to do better. That's important! But he's not there yet, for sure. Nevertheless, the love we share makes this worth it, for both of us. If it weren't, we wouldn't do it.
 
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