ironing out the kinks?

F

frankly

New member
Ok... Background me (bi female)and S (straight male) have been married for 11 years with mutual kids. Had previous girlfriends but nothing serious. M (bi female) has joined the relationship and is sexually and emotionally attached to both myself and S. She is single with kids, living in her own home.

S is wanting to split things equally with myself and M. He says all or nothing. I'm having issues with not being primary I guess. Is this wrong? I don't want to be jealous because I want this to work. I really care for M. But I guess I'm also scared of losing what I have with S? How to you deal with this? Can the two still be kept seperate? Can Me and S still have our marriage and me and M have our thing while S and M have their thing, but then we all three have a triad? I don't know exactly how to process this. I know that we set our own guidelines and rules. But.... Where do I start. I don't want to be the bad guy.
 
When you say that S is wanting to split things equally with you and M, do you mean he wants to spend equal amounts of time with each of you, or something else? How long have the three of you been involved?

Many people (but not all) begin their poly journey under the hierarchical model of primary/secondary, often because this brings a sense of security and comfort. I also started out this way. Many people continue to adopt this model throughout their life - not everyone practices non-hierarchical poly. You are not the "bad guy" for feeling afraid of your relationship changing with S. The likelihood is absolutely that things will change to a certain degree. However, this does not have to mean that you will lose S, or that your relationship will change for the worst.

One thing I would say is that in reality, hierarchies seem to do little in practice. If someone falls for someone, they will do so regardless of hierarchy. If someone grows closer to someone over time, they may want things to change in some way that wasn't originally planned. Relationships have a tendency to evolve on their own.

However, that doesn't mean that it always feels easy - especially for the partner of the person saying "I want things to change". If I could live in the comfort and safety of a primary relationship that actually worked and was absolutely primary, I would want to do that. However, it's not the reality and there is little point in calling it such. In the end, it just becomes a word.

In terms of keeping the individual relationships within your triad as separate entities... I don't see why you can't. Does S want M to move in with you, or something? I think it's absolutely important that there is enough time for M&S, you and S, you and M, and the triad.

At the same time, if you don't want an 'equal' relationship right now, say that! Even if S feels that he has to operate a certain way, you are still entitled to say what's on your mind, and you absolutely should be able to be open and honest about your feelings. Perhaps a compromise can be reached.

In terms of jealousy and insecurity, the best way to tackle these issues is to look deep inside yourself. If your insecurity is based on how much time/energy/attention M gives to S, you are building your strength on a false foundation. Have you read about poly? I think there's a sticky somewhere with a reading list, but good starting points are:

Ethical Slut
More Than Two (there's a website and now a book)
Poly Weekly - A polyamory podcast. She also has a book out.
 
Hello frankly,

Re (from OP):
"Can S and I still have our marriage and M and I have our thing while S and M have their thing, but then we all three have a triad?"
Click to expand...

I don't see why not ...

So essentially S wants a co-primary structure where everyone is a primary partner? Would he be willing to have M be a secondary partner temporarily? Could M then gradually earn the "title" of primary partner through sweat equity?

What's involved in M becoming a primary partner that makes you fear you'll lose what you have right now with S?

I hope we can help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
So like you and m a forth of the time
You and s a forth of the time
s and m a forth of the time
and all 3 of you together a forth of the time?

Sounds like since all of you are romantically involved that means that really you are all each other's primary partner. Makes sense that all 4 relationships would get equal time
 
S is wanting to split things equally with myself and M. He says all or nothing.
Click to expand...

What exactly does that mean? Split time equally? Put her on the joint checking accounts? Put her on the house deed? Custody of the children? And how fast exactly? Like tomorrow? Or over time?

I don't want to be the bad guy.
Click to expand...

What makes you a "the bad guy" exactly? Wanting to talk this out rather than leap in?

Could you be willing to clarify some of that? What is your desired outcome? His? Hers? :confused:

Galagirl
 
I hate when people just say "my bf" "my husband" my this or that, but it's not much better when people just use initials. So confusing. I had to go back 4 times to remember M was the new gf, S is your husband. For this post, I will call them Sam and Mary, OK?

So, you, frankly, and Sam have been married 11 years and have young kids. Meanwhile Mary has "joined the relationship," meaning, she is in some sort of triad situation with both of you. I guess she is bi too? 2 bi women, one guy. Every man's dream.

OK.

How long has she been the gf of both of you? A month? A year? I was once in your situation, kinda. My (now ex) husband was so stricken with NRE (new relationship energy) and we were such poly noobs, he was talking almost from the first date/sex to move her in with us to become a 2nd wife.

Need I say this freaked me the fuck out? We barely knew her and he wanted her to help raise our kids and just be all in my personal space 24/7? (BTW, unlike you, this gf of his told us she'd be interested in both of us, but turned out to be just into him. But I think the repercussions of that 50/50 thing still stand.)

Knowing and shagging someone for a month or 2 is way too early to move her in. Even if he isn't wanting to move her in, but just spend 33% of his available time one on one with her, 33% with you, and 33% with both of you, is a lot to ask when Mary is new on the scene.

But he's in NRE, and it makes people crazy.

(Example: I broke up with a bf of 2 1/2 years because he was being an ass. He took up with a married MF couple, and they all refused to make any kind of dating schedule. The new couple insisted on being spontaneous, which meant I had to plan MY days around THEIR last minute availability, and even her menstrual period and PMS! I thought that was really rude, especially since I'd been with him 2 years and he'd only known them weeks! I felt pushed out, neglected and taken advantage of.)

Then when there is a triad, you also need to plan for time with kids and other family, time with friends, "me-time," work, etc etc.

So yeah, if he's being a hard-ass and saying "all or nothing" and you feel he is moving way too fast, you can

object, put on some brakes
see how he responds

or

wait out his NRE, which could take a year of you being the old tried and true and her being the favored new and shiny.

You have no right to TELL Sam or Mary how to proceed. And most experienced people will tell you vetoing a new partner of your partner never works.

But you have a right to make your feelings and wishes known. To say what kind of shape of r'ship YOU prefer. Yes, you're all equals. But I also can relate to feeling like chopped liver as compared to the new and shiny. How you 3 work it out could go many ways, but you don't need to be a martyr OR a "bad guy." The needs and desires of all 3 of you are equal. Personally I think one's spouse of 11 years and the mother is his children owes one something: respect, caring, consideration.
 
detailed information

Thanks for all of the replies. You have shed a lot of light on my situation, it would be nice to be able to take all of your advice, but since I had put the post up. A situation has arose.

again... using Magdlyn's analogy to make things easier to follow.
Me: Wife
Sam: Husband
Mary: New Girlfriend

Mary joined our relationship 8 months ago. Again we have tried this before, knew that we wanted to take it slow, because it didn't work the last time.
Mary sucks at relationships and will openly admit to this, she is partially out as far as people knowing that she is bi. said that this is the only type of relationship that would work for her. She likes guys, she likes girls. she likes us both. she likes her alone time. Hence why she still lives in her own home.
She's so much fun but she's rather moody, I know we can all be but she's giving so many mixed signals I don't even know how to take them anymore.


So for months we took things slow, only hooked up when it was convenient, for all parties considering we all have kids. but then 5 months in she starts talking about having family dinners, having family time (all of us). SO I was like OK, we can try getting a little more serious, I now watch her kids 3 nights a week, when she's working (night shift) and take them to school the next morning. have my own kids all the time too. So not only am I now emotionally attached to her, but to her children as well.

I was NRE for the first 6 months, then things got normal for me. Well for Sam (husband) he was not wanting to get too invested, finally opened up about 6 months in and wanted to go all in...... Enter NRE.......

Well Mary starts to get down, 3rd wheel syndrome, sam and I are married, know each others quirks and have each other at night. she wakes up in the middle of the night and is lonely (those were her exact words)....

SO me being me I say: What can we do to make things better for you? different work shifts make things difficult to finagle. Sam said when Mary had nights off he could go over and stay, since she was lonely. Because it's not fair to her. Which I agreed. I wanted her to be happy to. But when I asked her if that was ok she said he would have to wait till the kids were asleep to even come over.

So she's lonely, but don't want Sam to come over and stay so she won't be lonely? I don't understand? I'm so confused...... Am I over-analyzing this?

She wanted a ring to wear to show that she was part of our relationship. so we bought 3 identical rings....

So Sam gets his feelings hurt for offering to come stay the night and her not taking him up on his offer. He decided to take a night or two off and clear his head, not talking to her. Well that upset Mary, and she went off.

I don't know if he was trying to see if she actually cared or what? But She did, I don't know about now though.

when Sam went on his sabbatical Mary called and texted several times very upset and was very mouthy saying hurtful things, said he was being inconsiderate and childish (which in a way he was) and said that she couldn't be in a relationship with someone that she didn't respect.

SO........... Here I am trying to mend things. Love them both to death. I realize that I have almost 12 years invested in my marriage and I have other peoples lives feelings and emotions to consider in this.

Mary is more like a guy than a girl, she wants to just forget anything happened, go on about our business, pick up where things left off. Sam is being a hard ass saying she broke his heart with some of the things that she said, said he can't go back to how things were.

And here I am...
 
Poly teaches me over and over again some very valuable lessons about relationships in general - other people's behavior is always way beyond my control and if I'm dependent on "good behavior" to make me happy, then I'm in for a very rocky ride through life. There are so many spinning plates in any poly situation, we can't possibly control them all or keep them constantly spinning to our liking. People "misbehave" left, right and center in this world and the only way to stop the madness of our reaction to it all is to somehow find our own happy inner place. It's amazing how the peaceful center of one's own heart can radiate calm to all who come near. Finding your own peace, in whatever way works for you (yoga, running, spiritual guidance, cooking....) goes a very, very long way in creating the center of a peaceful world of relationships. Your GF sounds like a wonderful teacher in this regard. Take your focus off of her (and your husband's) behaviors and put it on your own inner life. That's where lasting peace resides.
 
Doing poly right takes great, better than average, communication skills. It sounds like Sam and Mary aren't doing too well in that area.

If this is between the two of them though, it's up to them to sort it out. You don't have to be a go between.

Sounds like Mary is definitely of two minds here. She needs to sort out for herself what her needs and desires really are. You and Sam can't figure that out for her.

All these kids in the mix, plus differing work schedules does make this a tough time for the three of you.
 
HappilyFallenAngel said:
Poly teaches me over and over again some very valuable lessons about relationships in general - other people's behavior is always way beyond my control and if I'm dependent on "good behavior" to make me happy, then I'm in for a very rocky ride through life. There are so many spinning plates in any poly situation, we can't possibly control them all or keep them constantly spinning to our liking. People "misbehave" left, right and center in this world and the only way to stop the madness of our reaction to it all is to somehow find our own happy inner place. It's amazing how the peaceful center of one's own heart can radiate calm to all who come near. Finding your own peace, in whatever way works for you (yoga, running, spiritual guidance, cooking....) goes a very, very long way in creating the center of a peaceful world of relationships. Your GF sounds like a wonderful teacher in this regard. Take your focus off of her (and your husband's) behaviors and put it on your own inner life. That's where lasting peace resides.
Click to expand...

I am trying believe me.... I have my own anxiety and depression issues to worry about, afraid that if I let this consume my inner self that it will eat me alive and drive me into a deep depression again. Which I can't do... Finding this group as an outlet and an outside source to get information from has helped me more than anything. Especially in this type of situation and where we live/as well as families freaking out if they knew what was going on.

When you have issues in this type of relationship I know that it is best to talk things out, but right now the two of them are so stubborn and proud that they haven't spoken in three days, one doesn't want to forgive while the other doesn't want to forget.
 
Magdlyn said:
Doing poly right takes great, better than average, communication skills. It sounds like Sam and Mary aren't doing too well in that area.

If this is between the two of them though, it's up to them to sort it out. You don't have to be a go between.

Sounds like Mary is definitely of two minds here. She needs to sort out for herself what her needs and desires really are. You and Sam can't figure that out for her.

All these kids in the mix, plus differing work schedules does make this a tough time for the three of you.
Click to expand...

She said that she loves us, but doesn't want to deal with relationship bs right now. I don't want to lose her. Deep down Sam doesn't want to lose her either. I would love to put the two of them in a room and lock the door and not let them come out till they either kiss and make up and come to an understanding or completely end it. but I'm afraid of the outcome.
 
Just because Sam and Mary don't work out doesn't mean that it has to be over for you and her. Maybe instead of Sam going over ( which she doesn't seem to want) you can offer to?
 
Mary said that she got to see me any time she wanted to. she wanted more of a relationship with Sam too. and with kids involved. and work schedules. me being away at night during the week isn't an option.
 
It sounds like this is really an issue between Mary and Sam. If they're not willing to work things out between the two of them, then there's not a lot you can do. I don't know of any magic words that could be said to them to make them change their minds.

What does Mary want if Sam won't talk to her? Does she still want to maintain a relationship with you? If she's going to be mad no matter what unless she gets what she wants from Sam, then the best thing for your own sanity might be to step away and not have so much of a relationship with Mary. If Mary's going to be mad no matter what you do, you might as well remove yourself from the impossible situation.

Certainly Mary and Sam should both suck it up and act more like adults, especially since there are children in the equation. Sorry they're making things so difficult.
 
frankly said:
When you have issues in this type of relationship I know that it is best to talk things out, but right now the two of them are so stubborn and proud that they haven't spoken in three days, one doesn't want to forgive while the other doesn't want to forget.
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I respectfully disagree that "it's best" to talk (and talk and talk) especially when things are all balled up in knots such as your situation is. Focussing on what other people should or shouldn't be doing will make you crazy - every time. It's just too many balls in the air to control - and why live a life where your happiness is dependent on what other people are doing, saying, etc? For myself, the more I am able to let others off the hook and focus on what makes me happy, the happier, simpler and easier my relationships become. Needing my loved ones to behave in a certain way, this is what leads to anxiety.
 
I am sorry you deal in this. :(

To lighten your load? Could stop being the go between messenger. They can talk to each other direct.

At this point in time, Sam wants to break up with Mary. Is he willing to change the polyship to you seeing Mary only? Or something else?

Mary wants to continue like nothing happened. Not going to happen; Sam is done. Is she willing to change the polyship to her only dating you? Or something else?

What do you want? To be the hinge in a V now or you only want the triad model?

I don't think much of Mary's character so far. She helps create a hooha, and then rather than taking some personal responsibility to help solve it, she says she does not want to deal in relationship bullshit? And later wants to play sweep it under rug?

How does this make her a solid, reliable, accountable poly partner for long haul for you? You already say you do not like the moody stuff and mixed messages.

I get you feel scared, upset, etc. and it is not pleasant to feel. I also think doing nothing right now is best... Give you a chance to step back from all this drama and do self of care first.

Galagirl
 
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Poly drama is the pits. Ugh. Most of us have dealt with it at some point or another.

Everyone has given good advice. I especially like HappilyFallenAngel's perspectives, and I think there's a lot to learn from her.

Essentially then, at the moment, your problem is different to your original problem. Now you don't even know if there will be a Sam and Mary, or a triad, after all of this.

How about you? Do you still want a relationship with Mary?

In terms of you being in the middle of the poly drama... For the last four years, I've advised and comforted and been there for my girlfriend (and other partners) when they've had poly drama. I'm completely happy to do this, but I've realised that there comes a breaking point. You have to look after yourself in these situations!

I've absolutely been in situations where I've wanted to bang my girlfriend's head against various metamours' of mine, or other people she's had arguments with. Sometimes they behave childishly, sometimes she does. Sometimes their behaviour is stellar and my girlfriend's is unhelpful, and vice-versa. I've been in situations where my advice is welcomed and considered, and in situations where my opinions have landed me in trouble (for not agreeing with whoever asked me for my opinion.. haha).

My point is that it's not good to get caught in the crossfire. Difficult when you live with one of your triad, but not impossible. Firstly, step out of fixer mode. You can offer opinions and advice IF they ask for it... or IF you get completely fed up and need to say your piece. In fact, if you fear that your relationship with Mary will end, or your life will be extremely difficult if the triad disintegrates, speak up if you want to! That doesn't have to mean getting involved in lots and lots of heavy talks. You could simply tell both of them what your opinion is and see how it lands.

The other thing to remember is that their argument doesn't necessarily mean the end of everything. My girlfriend talks about breaking up with her other partner every month or so, but they either always get back together or they work it out without breaking up. It can be exhausting to be caught in the cross-fire of volatile people or situations. If you recognise that Mary is crap at relationships and Sam is a hot-head, accept that and leave them be? Let them explode and work it out on their own?

In the meantime, think about what you want?
 
Thank you all so much. I have told them both my wishes and what outcome I would like but the ball is in their court and they need to sort it out. I'm stepping back. They know how I feel and what I want and that they are being selfish and childish and stubborn. I'm here when they are ready to grow up...
 
That's the ticket.
 
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