Is it time to cut loose?

[Saphie88]

Hi all,

I've been in a LD relationship with a close friend-turned-partner for about eight months now and while we've had our ups and downs, things have generally been okay. There was an incident about a week ago in which I gave him some cheek (I'm a very witty woman, known and generally loved for it!) and he said I should be punished for it, then told me how to punish myself. We're both kinky and that's fine, but behaviour modification is something that I don't consent to and his chosen punishment for me - for a quality of mine that he apparently loves - was something I absolutely detest. I said then and there that I needed to take some time from the relationship, because I felt scared of him.

Things improved a little and I started to feel secure enough to return to our relationship so I asked him about it, he said he needed some time and I agreed.

A few days later and I received a message from him, stating his "goals" for our relationship. His penultimate goal is for us to meet again soon, and his ultimate goal is for me to give him oral sex. I called him on that and said that it was "setting a low bar" for our relationship.

Fast forward to yesterday.

We were talking about how hot it is in the UK at the moment and he said he was on a train, then he took a picture of a random fit-looking (I wouldn't say hot because she was wearing gymwear, although she looked great) woman stood on the station platform and sent it to me, along with saying that he was "birdwatching". I thought that was a really creepy and terrible thing to do and it's made me feel sick now for two days straight. I am a feminist, not a radical one that believes men should cowtow to women but a fair one that believes there should be respect and equality among the sexes. He claims to be a feminist too yet his actions suggest to me that he clearly thinks it's okay for him to objectify women.

If it's anything to add, his nickname for me is "pet". I'll be honest and say that I hadn't given it a whole lot of thought with it being within the realms of our BDSM relationship, although I'm beginning to feel now that he is attempting to objectify me with it instead. We're both bloggers, and not too long after we became an item he posted about his "harem" (he has another partner, who is also kinky). I laughed it off at first but now I think it was stroking his ego to have two submissive girls.

We're also both on the kink social site Fetlife, and I've seen him commenting (lewdly) on other women's sexy photographs which made me uncomfortable and feel like he wasn't paying a whole lot of respect to his partners. I haven't said anything to him about it as yet because I don't want to come across as the jealous and insecure girlfriend, but we were supposed to be just a foursome and I have always abided by that, now it seems like the rules are open to interpretation.

Lastly, and while reading up on some of the signs that he may be objectifying me today, I couldn't help but note something else stand out - the fact he seldom cares for conversations if they're not about sex. I can't count on both hands how many times I have messaged him, only to be left on read or having him respond with a thumbs up emoji or a winky face. That sounds a bit petty I know but I value connection, I value conversation - just look at the length of this post!

Anyway, I think that's it from me for now, I guess I just wanted to ask an AITA-type question: AITA for thinking about cutting him loose?

Thoughts are appreciated, of course

TIA

Helen xx

 

[GalaGirl]

Not sure what this has to do with polyamory.

But yeah. If he's doing off putting behaviours you don't like and you are thinking about cutting him loose now that you got to know him better? Fair enough. Cut him loose so you don't have to deal with this any more.

YOU decide what you are willing and not willing to put up with in a relationship.

Your consent to participate in things or not belongs to YOU.

If he doesn't meet your personal standards for what you seek in a partner? And you don't feel like being here any more? You don't have to be. You can drop out. It's a normal risk of dating. Some things pan out and some do not.

Breaking up doesn't make you an asshole. Everyone has that same freedom of choice -- they can continue to participate in a relationship or they can break up and drop out.

Galagirl

 

[Openbook23]

You can break up with someone for any reason you want, especially (but not only!) within the first year. That's like a trial period. Arguably, the trial period lasts even longer than that!

Whether the rest of us see all those actions as red flags doesn't really matter as much as whether you do. He's your partner. If he's only into you sexually (or into any women sexually, with 'oral sex' being his 'ultimate goal' for the relationship?) that might not match what you want in a partner. Certainly sounds like you want an emotional closeness that includes deep conversations, responsiveness, etc. If that's what you want, go get that! Lots of men also want that. I want that (not hitting on you...just using myself as an example). Personally, I don't like having sex with people unless there is an emotional connection, which means that I wouldn't date someone who only wanted a sexual relationship. We all have our boundaries/wants/needs. Yours are valid.

I get what you mean about the BDSM making it hard to tell, since there's a bit of objectification inherent in that. But it's roleplay. It's not meant to be ACTUAL objectification. BDSM should still include respect (post-session reassurances, for example) and degradation is a specific kink that no one should be asked to do without FULL consent in advance. To me, those are BIG flags, and they seem to be so for you as well.

Whether that means breaking up or communicating better, I don't know. I'd probably try the latter first, if you really love this guy. If not, there is nothing wrong with breaking up with him.

ETA: There's nothing wrong with breaking up with someone whom you love, either. Love and relationship compatibility are often separate things.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi all,

Hi,

I'll do my best to give my opinion from what you've shared.

I've been in a LD relationship with a close friend-turned-partner for about eight months now

Long-distance, cyber-only BDSM? It sounds like your texting convos have not been going well. Lots of misunderstandings.

and while we've had our ups and downs, things have generally been okay.

Usually we want more than "generally OK" in a new relationship. If you have these many doubts and misunderstandings still, it may not be worth trying to fix things.

Is this a polyamorous relationship, or just kinky fun? I don't see anything romantic in your post.

There was an incident about a week ago in which I gave him some cheek (I'm a very witty woman, known and generally loved for it!)

So, you're known as more of a "brat?" And he knows this and supposedly enjoys it?

and he said I should be punished for it, then told me how to punish myself. We're both kinky and that's fine, but behaviour modification is something that I don't consent to and his chosen punishment for me - for a quality of mine that he apparently loves - was something I absolutely detest. I said then and there that I needed to take some time from the relationship, because I felt scared of him.

Scared just because he crossed your boundary, or misunderstood it or forgot it? Why not just make the correction and go forward from there? It sounds like there is clarity lacking in your communication.

Things improved a little and I started to feel secure enough to return to our relationship so I asked him about it, he said he needed some time and I agreed.

A few days later and I received a message from him, stating his "goals" for our relationship. His penultimate goal is for us to meet again soon, and his ultimate goal is for me to give him oral sex. I called him on that and said that it was "setting a low bar" for our relationship.

That is a low bar. I guess he wants to meet in person again and get some head? I don't see anything wrong with saying that. Were you expecting something more romantic, more commitment, something else?

Fast forward to yesterday.

... he took a picture of a random fit-looking... woman on the station platform and sent it to me, along with saying that he was "birdwatching". I thought that was a really creepy and terrible thing to do and it's made me feel sick now for two days straight.

Don't you check out good looking people as you go around in your daily life? It doesn't have to be objectifying to notice a nice looking person. But stealthily taking their picture can be seen as invasive by some.

I am a feminist, not a radical one that believes men should kowtow to women, but a fair one that believes there should be respect and equality among the sexes. He claims to be a feminist too yet his actions suggest to me that he clearly thinks it's okay for him to objectify women.

Taking a cute girl's pic is not so terrible, imo, and I'm a feminist from way back. I think the problem is more about his taste in sending it to you. Unless you're bi and he thought you'd also enjoy the sight. My gf and I are both bi and we will point out to each other when we see someone cute or hot on TV or on the street, at work or whatever. But maybe you meant just the act of taking the pic.

If it's anything to add, his nickname for me is "pet". I'll be honest and say that I hadn't given it a whole lot of thought with it being within the realms of our BDSM relationship, although I'm beginning to feel now that he is attempting to objectify me with it instead.

You might be reading too much into that name. It sounds this is more about you than him. "My pet" is a pretty common term of endearment, even in vanilla circles.

We're both bloggers, and not too long after we became an item he posted about his "harem" (he has another partner, who is also kinky). I laughed it off at first but now I think it was stroking his ego to have two submissive girls.

Unless you consent to this, I don't think he should be going around boasting about a harem. Now, again, though, this seems more like a kink problem than a polyamorous problem. Some subs might like being seen as a harem girl. Some subs love to be objectified.

We're also both on the kink social site Fetlife, and I've seen him commenting (lewdly) on other women's sexy photographs which made me uncomfortable and feel like he wasn't paying a whole lot of respect to his partners. I haven't said anything to him about it as yet because I don't want to come across as the jealous and insecure girlfriend, but we were supposed to be just a foursome and I have always abided by that, now it seems like the rules are open to interpretation.

A foursome? Do you also have another partner?

Communicate. It's within his right to leave comments on FL pix. If you're not good with that, though, tell him. He might say he's going to keep doing it anyway. Maybe he's not the right man for you, if you don't want him to do this.

Lastly, and while reading up on some of the signs that he may be objectifying me today, I couldn't help but note something else stand out - the fact he seldom cares for conversations if they're not about sex. I can't count on both hands how many times I have messaged him, only to be left on read or having him respond with a thumbs up emoji or a winky face. That sounds a bit petty I know but I value connection, I value conversation - just look at the length of this post!

It does sound like you want romance, and he just wants fun, kink and sex. It doesn't seem like you're on the same page at all.

Anyway, I think that's it from me for now, I guess I just wanted to ask an AITA-type question: AITA for thinking about cutting him loose?

Thoughts are appreciated, of course

TIA

Helen xx

From here it sounds like you're confused. Do you want romance and love, or Ds and to be controlled? Are you poly or just kinky? Is he polyamorous or just playing around? It sounds like he just wants NSA fun.

 

[Evie]

NAH, you're just far enough along the dating path that you've discovered there are incompatibilities between the two of you. It's okay to end it, and you WNBTA to do so. If you're looking for external validation for the decision I think you've actually already made, consider this thread it.

(Fwiw, from what you've described, I would find him incompatible, too. Perhaps many people would, based of much of his current behaviour, but it's not your job to try and improve him, you can walk away without any baggage on this one. Go find someone better for you.)

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Helen,

It sounds like your long-distance boyfriend desires women who like to be objectified. I don't know how many women are like that, but he seems to be assuming that you are one of them. He does not seem like a great match for you, and to me it only makes sense for you to cut him loose at this point. Just my opinion.

I hope this thread helps encourage you.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Saphie88]

Thankyou all for your kind and insightful comments, I won't reply individually but there are many great thoughts here and (unfortunately) support what I probably already knew to be true.

Just to clarify on a few things:-
* Yes, emotional connection is important for me, as is romance. I thought he wanted that too given he said quite recently that he was falling in love with me, that’s why his behaviour as of late has me confused. It doesn't seem in line with how you would treat someone you love (at least not without a discussion first).
* I am married, have been for ten years, together for fifteen. Poly partner in question is a friend I've known for about twelve years now, always gotten along with him fine when we've met up but not known him more intimately until recent.
* In kink terms I'm a Switch, but submissive to my husband and poly partner. My sub side is bratty, yes, but I am generally cheeky and playful wirh people i know and trust, both in and out of kink. It's just one of those things that runs in my family and hence not something I want to change. I do enjoy objectification, but only in a scene and not as a psrt of everyday life. My partner knows I don't chose to live D/s 24/7.

My apologies if I've missed anything

Thanks again for your help.

Helen xx

 

[Saphie88]

@Magdlyn there's a lot of questions in your reply so I will try to work through them:

Long-distance, cyber-only BDSM? It sounds like your texting convos have not been going well. Lots of misunderstandings.

For now, yes. Distance is not that great where some other relationships go - it's only 120 miles between us - but his partner is not happy with him having physical contact with others and so play takes shape in other ways. Things do generally go okay between us in our conversationa but then something happens that crashes it all, usually him acting on impulse and "forgetting" my limits or suddenly suggesting something sexual that makes me uncomfortable. That's a kink problem, though.

Is this a polyamorous relationship, or just kinky fun? I don't see anything romantic in your post.

We're both polyamorous, and it was supposed to be a polyamorous, kinky relationship.

So, you're known as more of a "brat?" And he knows this and supposedly enjoys it?

I'm a Switch with a bratty side, but yes. It's something that both of my partners love about me, apparently.

Scared just because he crossed your boundary, or misunderstood it or forgot it? Why not just make the correction and go forward from there? It sounds like there is clarity lacking in your communication.

Scared because he forgot the "why" I'm so reluctant to punishment, another kink problem.

Communication is something we struggle with definitely, and sadly (because it sounds like I blame everything on him) he usually stops responding before things have really been worked through. I might email him about a problem or idea, he'll reply at some point and I might suggest something to summarise in a follow-up and that will be it. No reply, follow up message, further mention, nothing. If I mention it again, he claims to have been too busy.

That is a low bar. I guess he wants to meet in person again and get some head? I don't see anything wrong with saying that. Were you expecting something more romantic, more commitment, something else?

I don't say that I expect it to be, but I was certainly of the understanding that this would be a whole relationship, not just sex. That's fine if that's what he wants, but it's not what I want and it's not in line with some of the messages that he's been giving. For example, one minute he says he's falling in love with me, then he says his ultimate goal is for me to give him head. To me those two are mismatched, although of course one can be a part of the other.

Don't you check out good looking people as you go around in your daily life? It doesn't have to be objectifying to notice a nice looking person. But stealthily taking their picture can be seen as invasive by some.

Of course, it's the taking a picture part that I have an issue with. I guess because I've been a victim of it myself on more than one occasion and so I know how invasive it feels.

You might be reading too much into that name. It sounds this is more about you than him. "My pet" is a pretty common term of endearment, even in vanilla circles.

It's definitely possible. I think it's something that I'm very wary of now though - how does he really see me? I suppose that's something I need to ask him.

Unless you consent to this, I don't think he should be going around boasting about a harem. Now, again, though, this seems more like a kink problem than a polyamorous problem. Some subs might like being seen as a harem girl. Some subs love to be objectified.

I do agree with you that this is a kink problem. You hit the nail on the head though, I don't consent to it. I accept how he sees himself as a Dominant with two submissives, but it is disrespectful to brag about his "harem" without discussing it first.

A foursome? Do you also have another partner?

Yes, I'm married. I'm sorry, I should have mentioned that in my first post. It didn't really feel relevant though given the situation is more to do with my partner's behaviour, not my dynamic structure.

Communicate. It's within his right to leave comments on FL pix. If you're not good with that, though, tell him. He might say he's going to keep doing it anyway. Maybe he's not the right man for you, if you don't want him to do this.

It is his right, I agree, as it is for anyone on FL or any social media platform for that. At the same time though we need to be aware of who else might see our online behaviour, and how they might react.
It sounds a bit like clutching at straws here but he did overstretch the mark with another woman on FL a few days ago as well (he told me about it) and got himself blocked, then she unblocked him again the next day. To me, that tells me that it might not be only me who finds his online behaviour uncomfortable.

It does sound like you want romance, and he just wants fun, kink and sex. It doesn't seem like you're on the same page at all.

As mentioned earlier I was under the impression that this would be romance, but it does seem now as though he doesn’t want that. That's fine of course, but it does mean we can't go on.

From here it sounds like you're confused. Do you want romance and love, or Ds and to be controlled? Are you poly or just kinky? Is he polyamorous or just playing around? It sounds like he just wants NSA fun.

I want both, a romantic relationship with some kink. It doesn't have to be as intense as my marriage, of course, but it does have to not be just kink and sex.

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more info.

You, your husband, and Guy have been friends for over a decade, but only recently in the last 8 mos have you been dating Guy. It was meant to be both a poly and kink relationship.

Guy also has another partner but this partner is not happy with him having physical contact with others and so play takes shape in other ways.

Even though you got along as friends for many years? After dating him a bit you realized you two are seeking different things in dating. There's also communication issues with the kink. Certain things about is offline and online behaviors bother you. Once you add the drivable but still long distance relationship aspect of it, and then Guy's partner not being happy? Sounds like even more reasons this is not especially compatible.

I don't think you are an asshole to break up with him. It simply doesn't sound like a match for dating.

Galagirl

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

My post might sound a bit harsh, but it's because I really do think Fetlife is an incredibly toxic place for learning about healthy kink dynamics. The poly groups are a bit better but then the poly people only think certain types of kink dynamics are ethical when you're polyamorous. As well as them being generally racist.

Anyway...

I think you should spend less time on Fetlife. You sound like one of those vanilla wives who monopolize the M/s groups pretending they are in a power exchange instead of a boring marriage.

It's all "the way I do kink is okay and healthy and feminist and all other ways are abusive". Someone can be sexually excited about you and still respect you.

It's all very much like unless people see things exactly the way you do, then they're being exploitative. While this guy might just be a bad match for you, the only people interested in being controlled by your moralizing are people who are already in a bad place or those who seek to deceive you about things that will make you unhappy.

Women on fetlife block men for having a username they don't like. Or for sending them and introductory message. Many of the women who frequent Fetlife do so because they have never had the experience of being desired or being able to reject someone in real life. They are there to get revenge on men by humiliating them in public and to feel wanted and chased, even if it's imaginary. That's why they have groups like "return to sender".

There are a lot of emotionally unstable women on fetlife. A lot. So the blocking and then unblocking? Means nothing.

For many poly people, your jealousy and controlling behavior (tracking them online etc) would be highly problematic. You can only change yourself. Before you meet anyone else, I'd work on understanding boundaries.

Your marriage is very important. It's the reason you think its improper for your other partner to express interest in other women in public where it could embarrass you.

At the same time though we need to be aware of who else might see our online behaviour, and how they might react.

You don't even say "unsolicited messages are bad" - you say "your jealous partner might see". It's very telling.

At the end of the day, this was an online relationship. I think trying to apply standards of a real in-person romance to sexy chat online is a stretch.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Helen,

When he says he's falling in love with you, is there any chance he is defining "falling in love" differently than how you would define it? In poly, it's generally understood to mean an emotional/romantic connection, but outside of poly, it's more like you should replace the word "love" with "lust."

Just a thought,
Kevin T.