Is it too late?

[FallenAngelina]

I believe they do have a co-dependent relationship. He has deferred to her since I've known them, always putting her first, regardless of how she treated him. Personally, I think they have an incredibly unhealthy relationship, but hey, I'm not really an objective party in this so who really knows?

...I need her to respect my relationship with him, recognize that it is just as important to me as her relationship is to her. Married or not, our commitment to each other is real.

...I would appreciate any suggestions as to how to approach this conversation...about boundaries, and respect.

You've been with him for 6 years, which means that you have been part of his world with his wife for 6 years - somehow fitting yourself in and not in your preferred ways. I'd suggest that you do indeed participate co-dependently in the sense that you have subsumed your thoughts and feelings for the sake of keeping the peace, prioritizing their relationship. This is the way co-dependent systems work: there is always a "Queen Bee" that assumes the role of the demanding one or the difficult one or the _____ one, around whom the others in the system must accommodate their true desires. "If it weren't for Queen Bee being so _______ , things would be really good. How can we get Queen Bee to ______ so that we can all feel better?" You have participated for 6 years in this system that holds your BF's wife as the top priority and of course you feel resentful, unrecognized in full and frustrated with his kowtowing. The thing is, you do it, too, if not to her face then in your own feelings about yourself and the situation. You will never, ever, ever extract the respect you want from her by asking for it. You will never find the magical right words with which to state your needs and get them met, for this is not about her. This is about you. It's always about you and how you feel about you, how you view you, the extent to which you truly esteem your relationship with your BF. Yes, you love him dearly and he loves you, but I'll bet there's quite a bit of fear and insecurity going on here, as well. That's the stuff that his wife can never help you eradicate with her words of respect. They will always ring hollow even if you somehow get her to say them.

The thing about respect is that when we get people to show it ("state our needs") we are left needing confirmation of it again and again because it's just words. Our asking for respect comes from a place of lack and self-doubt which others reflect back to us. Their shows of respect don't really fill us up even if the behavior is what we've asked for. When we are filled with genuine self respect, we don't need to get it or ask for it from others, it just flows. We feel respected by others and don't have to seek confirmation of it because we are the infinite source and others reflect that to us.

Now, you might disagree with me and say that you do indeed respect yourself and that she is the problem here. But I'd remind you that anytime you keep coming up against a brick wall of another person whose demeanor you're perceiving to be blocking your way to what you want, you're venturing into co-dependent territory. The solution is never in getting the other person to change. It's always in seeing your part of the situation and adjusting yourself. You always have the power to change situations by changing your perception and your style of participation in them. Your well being, your experience of yourself as a full partner with your BF is never up to his wife's behavior or words to determine, it is up to you. She will always reflect back to you how you view yourself in this situation - not how you say that you wanted to be treated but how you truly feel about yourself in this family system.

 

[stillfiguringthingsout]

You've been with him for 6 years, which means that you have been part of his world with his wife for 6 years - somehow fitting yourself in and not in your preferred ways. I'd suggest that you do indeed participate co-dependently in the sense that you have subsumed your thoughts and feelings for the sake of keeping the peace, prioritizing their relationship. This is the way co-dependent systems work: there is always a "Queen Bee" that assumes the role of the demanding one or the difficult one or the _____ one, around whom the others in the system must accommodate their true desires. "If it weren't for Queen Bee being so _______ , things would be really good. How can we get Queen Bee to ______ so that we can all feel better?" You have participated for 6 years in this system that holds your BF's wife as the top priority and of course you feel resentful, unrecognized in full and frustrated with his kowtowing. The thing is, you do it, too, if not to her face then in your own feelings about yourself and the situation. You will never, ever, ever extract the respect you want from her by asking for it. You will never find the magical right words with which to state your needs and get them met, for this is not about her. This is about you. It's always about you and how you feel about you, how you view you, the extent to which you truly esteem your relationship with your BF. Yes, you love him dearly and he loves you, but I'll bet there's quite a bit of fear and insecurity going on here, as well. That's the stuff that his wife can never help you eradicate with her words of respect. They will always ring hollow even if you somehow get her to say them.

The thing about respect is that when we get people to show it ("state our needs") we are left needing confirmation of it again and again because it's just words. Our asking for respect comes from a place of lack and self-doubt which others reflect back to us. Their shows of respect don't really fill us up even if the behavior is what we've asked for. When we are filled with genuine self respect, we don't need to get it or ask for it from others, it just flows. We feel respected by others and don't have to seek confirmation of it because we are the infinite source and others reflect that to us.

Now, you might disagree with me and say that you do indeed respect yourself and that she is the problem here. But I'd remind you that anytime you keep coming up against a brick wall of another person whose demeanor you're perceiving to be blocking your way to what you want, you're venturing into co-dependent territory. The solution is never in getting the other person to change. It's always in seeing your part of the situation and adjusting yourself. You always have the power to change situations by changing your perception and your style of participation in them. Your well being, your experience of yourself as a full partner with your BF is never up to his wife's behavior or words to determine, it is up to you. She will always reflect back to you how you view yourself in this situation - not how you say that you wanted to be treated but how you truly feel about yourself in this family system.

Hi Karen,

I'd say you've hit the nail on the head. I agree with pretty much everything you've written...so the challenge is, how to change my own behaviour?

Let me give you an example:

A few months ago, my boyfriend and I were laying in bed early Saturday morning, just chatting and relaxing. His bedroom door was closed.
Suddenly I hear the door knob turn and his wife walks in, naked, and plops herself onto the bed beside him saying she heard us laughing and talking and thought she'd see what we were up to.
I was so shocked I was speechless...what the heck do I say to that!? I think she felt the awkwardness because her husband didn't say anything either so she walked out. Once she was out of ear shot I turned to him and said That is NOT acceptable. And left it up to him to deal with. He had a chat with her about a closed door meaning privacy and that she was not ever to intrude like that again. It hasn't happened since.
Is there a better way that could have been handled?

 

[kdt26417]

Re:

"Suddenly I hear the door knob turn and his wife walks in, naked, and plops herself onto the bed beside him saying she heard us laughing and talking and thought she'd see what we were up to."

Jeezh ...

 

[GalaGirl]

He has agreed that we need to spend more quality time together. But I need to know how to move forward with his wife. She knows that I am in a bad headspace right now but I haven't told her the details.

Why do you have to move forward with the wife? You are not in a relationship with her. "Basic polite" that you would do with a bank teller or grocery clerk is enough. I can imagine you are polite to these people in your life without being extra chummy. You don't hang out at their houses. So don't hang out at hers if hanging out there leads to annoyances.

When she does stuff that bugs you, speak up. "When I see you doing X, I feel Y. Could you be willing to do Z instead?" You don't have to be mean about it, but neither do you have to be "shrinking" yourself.

Should I go to therapy to deal with this? Is it an issue of boundaries? Do I have a right to ask for boundaries around mine and my boyfriends relationship?

If you need therapy, go for it.

Of course you have the right to set up boundaries. You set your boundaries to help keep you safe. They are not for other people to obey. They are for YOU to obey. If you have a boundary that goes something like "I cannot be around drama stuff. I messes with my own mental health" then keep yourself away from drama people/drama spaces.

Once she was out of ear shot I turned to him and said That is NOT acceptable. And left it up to him to deal with. He had a chat with her about a closed door meaning privacy and that she was not ever to intrude like that again. It hasn't happened since.

Wow. That's pretty fresh behavior. Glad it hasn't happened since.

It might be her house, but she could still respect people's boundaries. What does she do? Walk in on people using the toilet even if the door is closed? Walk around naked when guests are over even if they don't want to be seeing her naked?

Is there a better way that could have been handled?

Lock the door. Or don't be there at their house. Be at yours. Then even if she tries again, it CANNOT happen even if she wanted to.

I believe our relationship needs a safe space to grow and where we can actively be ourselves and show our affection for one another. This is not possible around his wife.

If this is what you need? And it is not possible around his wife? Don't be around the wife then. Create the space you do need to grow elsewhere.

Could keep this WAY simpler on yourself.

Twice, she has gotten upset with me saying she feels like a third wheel around me, that she feels like she can't express herself in her own home

Being free to express herself in her home doesn't mean a free pass to disrespect other people in the home and being intrusive.

If she IS being a third wheel? She could stop behaving that way. Stop doing things like busting into a closed bedroom and plopping herself in there naked.

Ask her to change her behavior. If she doesn't? Don't be there to be intruded upon. She can keep on intruding on whoever else is there, but you aren't there. YOUR problem is solved at least.

I'm afraid that she will immediately start to cry and tell me that she feels like she can't be herself in her own home.

What's so horrible about her crying when people tell her to stop being a third wheel when she IS being a third wheel? You are not doing things TO her. She's bringing it on herself if she behaves poorly and people call her out on it.

It's like a running a red light and a cop giving you a ticket. What is the cop gonna do? LET you run the red light just so you don't cry? Or give you the natural consequence your own behavior earned and let you solve your crying/upset yourself because cop has other business elsewhere? That doesn't mean the cop is mean, unfeeling person. It just means the cop knows what is their job and what is NOT their job.

If she does behaviors you don't appreciate? Be like a traffic cop. Neutral and boring. Let natural consequences follow: "In future, please do not do this. Do that instead."

How she feels about it? Detach. That's her job to handle. It is not your job to handle.

Otherwise, just don't be in her home. Let your partner deal with his wife and his issues. You don't have to.

Galagirl

 

[FallenAngelina]

How she feels about it? Detach. That's her job to handle. It is not your job to handle.

SFTO, this is the target you want to hit when changing codependent thinking. You're taking on a lifetime habit, likely that you learned early on was the safest way to handle unsafe emotional situations, but a way that you can now see doesn't work very well because your integrity suffers. This habit of thought, trying to preemptively manage other people's feelings, isn't changed overnight, but it certainly can be changed into new thinking that allow you to have what you want in relationships. This is often why people read self help books, go to therapy and seek guided support in fellowship groups. It's a simple change, but a radical change and worth every effort you put into it. Our relationships always mirror our interior selves and that's why we can't change relationships by trying to change other people. Others just reflect back to us where we are. But guaranteed, your relationships will change as your awareness and thinking change.

 

[stillfiguringthingsout]

SFTO, this is the target you want to hit when changing codependent thinking. You're taking on a lifetime habit, likely that you learned early on was the safest way to handle unsafe emotional situations, but a way that you can now see doesn't work very well because your integrity suffers. This habit of thought, trying to preemptively manage other people's feelings, isn't changed overnight, but it certainly can be changed into new thinking that allow you to have what you want in relationships. This is often why people read self help books, go to therapy and seek guided support in fellowship groups. It's a simple change, but a radical change and worth every effort you put into it. Our relationships always mirror our interior selves and that's why we can't change relationships by trying to change other people. Others just reflect back to us where we are. But guaranteed, your relationships will change as your awareness and thinking change.

Thank you Karen, I'm sure going to try. As I said in my original post, the last few months have been especially hard, and I think it just ended up being a perfect storm and I basically self destructed. Moving forward, I do have a friendship with my metamour, or at least I would like to attempt one. So...do I sit and have a chat with her about why I took a step back? what behaviours of hers ( to which I said nothing at the time) I found insensitive, thoughtless and intrusive. A chat about boundaries. Is there even a point to that? Or do I just slowly show her that I will not tolerate certain things anymore and that I plan on being at my place more and her place less.
How would a conversation like that even look?

 

[stillfiguringthingsout]

Why do you have to move forward with the wife? You are not in a relationship with her. "Basic polite" that you would do with a bank teller or grocery clerk is enough. I can imagine you are polite to these people in your life without being extra chummy. You don't hang out at their houses. So don't hang out at hers if hanging out there leads to annoyances.

When she does stuff that bugs you, speak up. "When I see you doing X, I feel Y. Could you be willing to do Z instead?" You don't have to be mean about it, but neither do you have to be "shrinking" yourself.



If you need therapy, go for it.

Of course you have the right to set up boundaries. You set your boundaries to help keep you safe. They are not for other people to obey. They are for YOU to obey. If you have a boundary that goes something like "I cannot be around drama stuff. I messes with my own mental health" then keep yourself away from drama people/drama spaces.



Wow. That's pretty fresh behavior. Glad it hasn't happened since.

It might be her house, but she could still respect people's boundaries. What does she do? Walk in on people using the toilet even if the door is closed? Walk around naked when guests are over even if they don't want to be seeing her naked?



Lock the door. Or don't be there at their house. Be at yours. Then even if she tries again, it CANNOT happen even if she wanted to.



If this is what you need? And it is not possible around his wife? Don't be around the wife then. Create the space you do need to grow elsewhere.

Could keep this WAY simpler on yourself.



Being free to express herself in her home doesn't mean a free pass to disrespect other people in the home and being intrusive.

If she IS being a third wheel? She could stop behaving that way. Stop doing things like busting into a closed bedroom and plopping herself in there naked.

Ask her to change her behavior. If she doesn't? Don't be there to be intruded upon. She can keep on intruding on whoever else is there, but you aren't there. YOUR problem is solved at least.



What's so horrible about her crying when people tell her to stop being a third wheel when she IS being a third wheel? You are not doing things TO her. She's bringing it on herself if she behaves poorly and people call her out on it.

It's like a running a red light and a cop giving you a ticket. What is the cop gonna do? LET you run the red light just so you don't cry? Or give you the natural consequence your own behavior earned and let you solve your crying/upset yourself because cop has other business elsewhere? That doesn't mean the cop is mean, unfeeling person. It just means the cop knows what is their job and what is NOT their job.

If she does behaviors you don't appreciate? Be like a traffic cop. Neutral and boring. Let natural consequences follow: "In future, please do not do this. Do that instead."

How she feels about it? Detach. That's her job to handle. It is not your job to handle.

Otherwise, just don't be in her home. Let your partner deal with his wife and his issues. You don't have to.

Galagirl

Thank you Gala Girl, as always I value your advice, it helps me immensely. I do have a friendship with my metamour, when she's not being a pain in my ass. lol Or at least I would like a healthier relationship with her, if that's possible. So I will learn to detach...not sure how to do that. And I will listen to my gut more as it always knows when the line is being stepped over. And ultimately, I will not be physically present in a place where I do not feel safe. I have already started to implement that last statement.

 

[GalaGirl]

Glad it helps some.

So I will learn to detach...not sure how to do that.

If you see her crying/feeling sad/etc?

"I'm sorry you are (crying/feeling sad/whatever it is). I hope you feel better soon."​

Then walk away. You aren't being mean about it, but neither are you actively helping to hold her hand and actively helping her get over it.

If she needs help, she can ask people for help. You do not have to leap up to "serve" unasked. If she asks YOU? You can say

"I'm sorry you are hurting. I'm not the right person for that. "​

And walk away.

Or if you don't feel right doing nothing, only do a small thing.

"I'm sorry you are hurting. I'm not the right person for that. I could call someone for you though. Who do you want me to call? "​

Then make the call, and let it go.

If she doesn't know who she wants, then say "I'm sorry I cannot call anyone for you then." and let it go.

I get that she's your meta, but you don't have to "carry" her emotionally.

If she's having outbursts out of the blue and still being depressed a year after the break up, maybe it is time to see a therapist and figure out if she's got something else going on. You could say that. Something like...

"I'm sorry you are hurting. I've noticed it's been a year since the break up and you are still sad. Maybe its time to see a professional to help you."​

Then detach and let her make her choices.

Galagirl

 

[lunabunny]

Lunabunny,

You are very thorough

Thank you. (I think.)

don't know if you saw in my previous responses but I went to his home because he preferred it

If I didn't initially see that, I certainly have now. To my mind the next question is: WHY does HE prefer it?

Is it because SHE, his wife, prefers that you all hang out there, rather than it being your partner's direct preference. i.e. Is this another example of him deferring to her in all things?

And IF it is more her choice than his, why do you think this might be? So she can have him at her beck and call at all times? So she can "keep an eye on" what you and/or he are getting up to... and so SHE can maintain at least the illusion of control over her own husband, his relationships, and her own life?

I believe they do have a co-dependent relationship. He has deferred to her since I've known them, always putting her first, regardless of how she treated him. Personally, I think they have an incredibly unhealthy relationship

My boyfriend will never leave her.

Without going all high drama and suggesting your meta has an actual personality disorder (histrionic, dependent, and borderline all spring to mind), she clearly displays all the hallmarks of a very manipulative co-dependent Queen Bee/control freak. Meanwhile, your boyfriend allows this pattern to continue and reinforces it by deferring to her.

And he has told me that he needs me in his life and will do what is necessary to work on our relationship.

I am very willing to not have any contact with her at all. But in the long run I believe it would eventually kill my relationship with my boyfriend.

I would appreciate any suggestions as to how to approach this conversation...about boundaries, and respect.

First of all, you need to know WHAT your boundaries actually are. Consider boundaries, limits and deal breakers from your own perspective. Get organised in your own mind. Write out a list, fine tune it, then ASK your boyfriend for what YOU need, first and foremost. Be clear about behavioural limits and what you will no longer tolerate from the meta.

Your list is up to you, however somewhere on it, you ought to insist that your bf either convey your boundaries/limits to his other partner in no uncertain terms -OR, failing that, since you say he tends to cave into her every tear - insist all three of meet on neutral ground so you can air your requests. They are really your own demands/rules, however you can only ask someone else to change their bad behaviour. It's up to them whether or not they actually do. But if they refuse, you may then choose to terminate any connection you have with this person.

I think the first thing you have to do, after deciding what you yourself will be willing to tolerate or otherwise, is make sure you and your bf are on the same page - before approaching his wife. The last thing you need is your own partner undermining you in front of your metamour.

Other than that, as GalaGirl suggests, refusing to engage with the manipulative behaviour when it occurs is a major weapon in the arsenal, when it comes to stymying such tactics. If she cries, bursts into the room, yells and screams... walk away, don't answer, say "no, I can't do that, but I'll do this" etc.

Realise that your meta's need for control and attention is actually being driven by insecurity. Just as a toddler's tantrum and attempt to get their own way is the result of them feeling out of control, and therefore they respond positively to firm-but-kind discipline and strong boundaries... an overly dependent manipulator will respond better if YOU act in a deliberately calm and controlled manner.

 

[GalaGirl]

Her 8 year relationship was very tumultuous and dramatic. Breaking up and getting back together again and everything that is attached to that.

Are you talking push-pull?

Or Chaos manufacture?

Something else?

It's like she explodes and I am hit with her verbal shrapnel. And then everything is ok because she got it off her chest, problem is, nothing changes, no constructive sharing of feelings, no plan to try to understand, no desire for change. No give and take. Things continue as they were until the next explosion...and this cycle continues...it has for years.

I'm starting to wonder if she could she have other problems.

http://outofthefog.website/ might help you figure that out. Really in the end though, it has to be a doctor to determine if any of that is going on.

If she does have something, it doesn't excuse her behavior and it doesn't mean you cannot have boundaries.

But if she does have a condition that makes it so she has no filter, has low understanding, or low ability to change? You may have to be even more firm with the boundaries. And quit trying to have a healthy "2 way street" kind of relationship with her and accept it's more like "patient relationship."

I believe they do have a co-dependent relationship. He has deferred to her since I've known them, always putting her first, regardless of how she treated him. Personally, I think they have an incredibly unhealthy relationship

Is it worth continuing to date a guy like this? That might be something you have to evaluate in this thinking time.

If the BF does not want to have a healthy relationship with his wife and will accept any behavior from her and will NEVER leave? He is ok being treated poorly? You might not want to have that kind of BF any more because it's too draining. It's not your job to be his "crutch" to help him to endure poor treatment on the other side of the V.

I suggest you give it a time frame. Right now he says he will step it up. Give him some time and space to demonstrate that. He either does or does not.

I need her to respect my relationship with him, recognize that it is just as important to me as her relationship is to her.

Why? So she will behave better? Why not cut to the chase and go with better behavior?

Moving forward, I do have a friendship with my metamour, or at least I would like to attempt one. So...do I sit and have a chat with her about why I took a step back? what behaviours of hers ( to which I said nothing at the time) I found insensitive, thoughtless and intrusive.

One of my parents has dementia as well as other conditions. Talking to them like this would NOT work. Does not have the capability to "get it" or "understand."

I see where you want to try for a healthy relationship, but maybe you could step back to evaluate if that is even POSSIBLE here.

I just accept I have a one-sided, patient relationship with my wonky parent. He cannot do higher level thinking. Trying to make him just upsets and frustrates him and he ends up acting out some more if we try to make him. He cannot think about others. He simply does not have the capacity for empathy. People with illness like his sometimes become super self centered and self absorbed.

It's just a whole lot easier to say "You can do X. You cannot do Y." Sometimes he acts out, has a tantrum, calls me a bitch. Just like a toddler meltdown or something. Then the next day? Like you described above -- all gone. Whoosh. Like it never happened.

So rather than get upset he's calling me names and whatnot? I just stick to my guns. Flat and boring in voice and tone. Lather, rinse, repeat. Clocks 3 times? I'm out.

Me: You can do X or Y. You cannot do Z. That is not acceptable behavior. What do you pick?

Him: No. You are not the boss of me! I'm the Dad! You are the kid!

Me: Correct. You are the boss of yourself. Z is not acceptable. You can choose to do X or Y. Which is it?

Him: Bitch!

Me: Ok. I'm a bitch. You still cannot do Z. You can do X or Y. The other choice is I pick. If you leave it to me, I am going home.

Him: You are mean, waaaaaah!

Me: Last time. X, Y, or I go home.

Him: Meanie!

Me: I see you picked me going home. See you tomorrow.
​

And I just go. I'm not going to sit there all day doing circle conversation. A few times of that? And me just up and going home? He knows I MEAN IT. He hurries up and picks something we both can live with and skips the whole "song and dance." He doesn't even both to try to play games with me any more.

My mom's an easier target. She says behind my back he calls me a bitch and all sorts of things. I said I don't care. To my face? He behaves. Which shows me he CAN behave still when he feels like it. The illness isn't so far gone. Just that he has more fun/is lazy/doesn't want to exercise self control. He is a bully who goes after easier targets. Like Mom. Sometimes he even flat out says so! Just no filter at all.

After watching me be unimpressed by Dad's antics? Mom firmed it up and found it a lot easier to be firm too. Now she also enjoys less drama.
No JADE. Do not justify, argue, defend, or explain. It's just a waste of breath.

Maybe your BF needs to see you model that before he can do it himself.

Skip the "talking" part. Just get to the choices/boundaries. Just like you do with a small child. You don't talk on and on with a toddler. You just tell them what to do/not do.

"No hitting people. Use soft hands." Short and sweet.

You can always go home too. You don't have to deal with this. Leave your BF to deal with his wife.

Galagirl



Galagirl

 

[JaneQSmythe]

Suddenly I hear the door knob turn and his wife walks in, naked, and plops herself onto the bed beside him saying she heard us laughing and talking and thought she'd see what we were up to.

Re:


Jeezh ...

Just for the record, this would be perfectly acceptable in our house - so you really have to realize that each person's assumptions may be radically different. If we are done with sex and down to cuddling, chatting, giggling - then we are just hanging out in bed...come on in and get a cuddle. (Then again, I only allow REALLY close friends in my house, and any of them are also welcome in my bed.)

 

[Tinwen]

Just for the record, this would be perfectly acceptable in our house - so you really have to realize that each person's assumptions may be radically different.

I wholeheartedly support this point.

 

[stillfiguringthingsout]

Just for the record, this would be perfectly acceptable in our house - so you really have to realize that each person's assumptions may be radically different. If we are done with sex and down to cuddling, chatting, giggling - then we are just hanging out in bed...come on in and get a cuddle. (Then again, I only allow REALLY close friends in my house, and any of them are also welcome in my bed.)

I understand that this may be acceptable in your situation, in your home. However, in MY situation this is NOT acceptable - EVER. A closed door means DO NOT ENTER. This has been in place for more than 6 years. She is well aware of this rule since she is the one who implemented it when SHE had a boyfriend and was always very vocal about not having her time impinged upon. Suddenly now, her memory seems to be hazy.
This was very much a crossing of boundaries. She knew it, I knew it and my BF knew it. I will never , ever be ok with her coming in for a 'cuddle'. I treasure the time I have with my boyfriend, when the door is closed is the ONLY time that I truly have any privacy with him.
I am well aware that each person's assumptions may be radically different. If you knew me better, you would know that I actually never make assumptions, or at least try not too. If she assumed that a closed door suddenly meant, "Ignore previous rules of respecting privacy and barge right in" then she made an ass out of herself.

 

[Magdlyn]

I agree with Angelina that not only is your bf in a codependent relationship with his wife, you are too. You have accepted being around her for 6 years with this kind of behavior, and even for the past year when she has more time on her hands (since she's not enjoying the drama fest with her own (ex) bf).

You say you've mostly gone to your bf's house because he lives in the city, so there is "more to do." Well, you could still meet him in the city, outside the home, to do the fun city stuff. When you want to have sex and cuddles and other relaxing down time together, meet at your place. Seems simple enough.

That is, if your husband is perfectly fine with you and bf coming to your place instead. I assume he isn't also a drama queen, and would respect your privacy and not whine and moan about being a 3rd wheel?

Another thing that comes to my my attention in this thread is that, despite having been in a r'ship with your bf for so many years, you still assume the married couple has pre-eminence over your r'ship with your bf. You have bought into the "couple privilege" idea. You have taken a place as a "secondary" and kept to "your place" like an indentured servant, despite now having a 6 year history with your bf.

No, she doesn't automatically get "first dibs" on your bf just because they are married. You could let go of that idea, if you want to maintain your boundaries and hold on to your self-respect. It seems YOU have allowed this to go on, and it only really came to your attention and was totally unacceptable, when the wife came swanning naked through the closed door into the bedroom and sat herself down on the bed! (That is such passive aggressive behavior.)

Also, I read that when she had a bf, the 4 of you would spend time at their house together. Now that her poor bf finally got completely fed up and has broken up with her, there is no more "double date" time at the house. So yeah, the dynamic has changed! She is a "third wheel" in a sense.

So, you need to make some changes. Once you are firm in what you want, if you need to talk to her, your words will just flow from your heart, from your boundaries around your own needs and desires.

Personally, I would hate to be around this person. I'd just go with city dates alone with bf outside the house, and sex dates at your place. Stop seeing Queen Bee wife altogether. Why would you want to "be friends" with such a disrespectful person?

One word of warning though, from my own experience: I dated a man for 7 months last year who was in a codependent relationship with his mother. She was very ill and in terminal stages of cancer. But she had plenty of energy to order him around. He quit his job to stay home and be her caretaker, since she "refused" to go into hospice. She'd make him do all kinds of stuff, like go and get her a brownie or a lottery ticket at 2 in the morning... Well, she wasn't making him do this, but he'd do it because... otherwise she'd bitch and yell and create a shitstorm. So he'd kowtow to make her be calm... until the next time.

When she died in July 2016, he broke up with me. He no longer wanted to have sex or cuddles with me. He just wanted to be platonic friends. I didn't understand why for a while. But once I got over my initial grief, I realise, his mother overstepped his weak boundaries for such a long time, he needed his own space back, his own bodily integrity. He needed firm boundaries. This was enacted by putting an end to our physical relationship. He told me he doesn't even like his cat to sit on his lap. If he feels sexual, he takes care of his own orgasm, doesn't want to actually have sex with me, or anyone else.

So, part of me wonders if you aren't a crutch for your bf, a place of calm to balance out his wife's demanding drama nature. If you pull away, refuse to be around her to help receive the shrapnel, it will all be on your bf's shoulders. I bet if he goes out with you to do city activities, or goes to your place for sex, she's gonna give him hell.

Therefore, be prepared for more change in your dynamic with him, or even a breakup. She won't automatically be happy with him going out to be with you. She complains about being a third wheel now, she will complain about him being gone with you just as much, I bet. You won't be around her to hear about it, but your bf is gonna get more shit. It might be too much for him, to be her only target. Maybe she will order him to dump you, and he will agree.