Is this a new triad?

[zestyzed]

Hi, I'm new here, and pretty new to polyamory. For some reason I'm feeling compelled to write about my experience. Maybe I'm asking for advice. I'm not sure.

The background is, I (a 40 year old man) have been with my spouse (Sofia) for 10 years. Almost 4 years ago we had a kid together. About a year ago we moved to a new place, a rural area far from where we had lived before. Our married sex life had taken a turn for the worse not long after the kiddo was born, and our relationship was suffering as well, with poor communication and resentments building up. Occasionally something would happen that would briefly spice things up, like when we found a house for sale across the country which seemed perfect for us and we impulsively decided to move to it. The stress of moving caught up with us, though, and after the move our relationship was worse than ever.

Several months ago, Sofia asked if we could open our marriage. We had talked about it years before and had agreed that we were open to the idea, but it wasn't appealing at that moment. But now, she had developed a crush on a guy (Ben) she'd met and was interested in exploring it. Though I did not have any interest myself in looking for another partner, I agreed, mostly because I wanted her to be happy. For a month or two they were going on dates once a week or so, and I wasn't feeling much of anything about it. I think I had become numb to how bad our relationship had become.

One night Ben came over for a game night, and afterwards he and my spouse retreated to our spare bedroom. I could hear them having sex. All at once a flood of feelings washed over me and I realized that I was not okay with this situation. *I* wanted her sex, her affection, her attention. And why wasn't I getting it? At first, my reaction was to think up a bunch of rules for how they could be together and attention that I should get from her, but as I started to talk through it with Sofia I realized that didn't feel right, and that route was only going to lead to more resentment.

Sofia and I talked and agreed that things needed to change. I offered to take on more household responsibilities, because that had been a major source of resentment. And we agreed to set aside time for just her and me to spend together, when we could get childcare for kiddo. That did help a lot, although I still felt very sexually frustrated because, although it was a revelation for Sofia that she could enjoy sex again, our sex life had not improved. And all the time and effort that I was spending thinking about our relationship and coming up with ideas for making it better was contributing to her stress and feelings of inadequacy as a spouse. With all that was going on in her life, she didn't have the time or energy for that.

After we talked about this, we agreed to take sex off the table for a month. Immediately I felt relief, no longer worried about when we were going to have sex again. And I was able to dial down the intensity to a comfortable level, so we could work together on feeling comfortable together and non-sex intimacy. After board game nights, Ben would sleep alone and my spouse would sleep with me, and in the mornings, at my suggestion, go cuddle with Ben before he had to leave.

After a few weeks of that, Sofia suggested that after board game nights we start all cuddling and sleeping together with her in the middle. That went on for a few weeks, and the morning cuddling kept getting steamier. When I would go to our spare bedroom at other times during the week, I would smell Ben's scent, and this was getting more and more exciting for me. After a particularly steamy (but clothed) morning, I came back in to grab my phone after feeding kiddo and getting them ensconced with some screen time, and Sofia and Ben were fooling around. Sofia invited me to join. It was incredibly awkward, but also incredibly hot. At times Ben and I had eye contact, and I wasn't quite sure what to make of it.

The next week, sometimes during the day I would go into the spare room just to smell Ben's scent lingering there. I tried to bring up what happened with Sofia, but she was having a hard time talking about it. So I resolved to bring it up when all three of us were together at our next game night. When I did, after we were done playing board games, Sofia abruptly left the room and suggested Ben and I could talk.

I said I was interested in exploring us getting physical with each other, and asked if that interested him. He said yes. I said, how about making out? And so we did. It was really good kissing and cuddling. I shared some of how I was feeling, gratitude that Sofia had been able to rediscover her sexuality with him and that she was happier than I had seen her in years, that Sofia and my relationship had been on the rocks, and her being with him had pushed me to improve our relationship, but we still had work to do, how I had been coming into the room seeking out his scent. He didn't say anything. I've always been more comfortable sharing my feelings than most, so I'm used to that response. And then we just lay together for a while holding each other. Meanwhile, Sofia took a nap on the couch. Initially I thought maybe she was upset about it, but in the morning we were all cuddling together, and it was fantastic, and Sofia seemed really happy.

That was this morning, and I'm still just buzzing, my heart all aflutter. But despite that, I still feel unsure about a lot of things. Before this, we had been pretty strictly in a V configuration. For example, I don't have Ben's number or any way to contact him except through Sofia. I'm not sure what changing that might look like, what pitfalls there might be there. We're all new to navigating poly relationships and I want to avoid hurt feelings as much as possible.

Sofia's and my relationship has dramatically improved through all this. We are spending and enjoying time together, apart from our domestic duties. But apart from the one time with Ben, our sex life is still nonexistent. I really want that to change, but in the past bringing it up has contributed to Sofia feeling pressured and worsened her anxiety about it, which just makes the problem worse.

Tomorrow Ben's cousin has invited Sofia, kiddo and me to join their family for some family-friendly fun times with their kid, so we'll get a chance to hang out again soon. I think I want to invite Ben over on a night when Sofia is working, and exchange phone numbers.

Well, thanks for reading all that, I guess. I would appreciate any insight, if you have any. It feels like we are on the brink of something really amazing and I want to help us get there and not screw it up.

(edited to convert initials to names, and to clarify my identity at the outset)

 

[Magdlyn]

Before anyone starts to analyze your complicated story and try to give feedback, would you be comfortable telling us what gender you are? It sounds like S is a woman and B is a man. I was wondering if you were also male and were just coming to terms with having sexual feelings for a man, or if you and S are both women and are both bisexual and have a same-sex marriage.

Also, would you mind picking nicknames for your others? S could be a name starting with S, and likewise for B. Thanks. It makes it easier to read and understand with actual names rather than initials.

 

[zestyzed]

Thanks for the feedback. I've updated the story to make it easier to read. Yes, I'm a man, and so is B (Ben) and S (Sofia) is a woman.

I'm no stranger to my bisexuality, although all my serious relationships in the past have been with women, and the vast majority of the sex I've had has been with women. Perhaps at the risk of oversharing, I don't usually get erections with men, even though I enjoy it, which has a tendency to put a damper on sexy times.

 

[Evie]

The organic development of things between you and Ben is a good start. Well, after a really bed start of "relationship broken, add people" originally, but it seems like you are all finding your groove. Good for you.

 

[zestyzed]

The organic development of things better you and Ben is a good start. Well, after a really bed start of "relationship broken, add people" originally, but it seems like you are all finding your groove. Good for you.

Thanks. To be fair to Sofia here, she’s said that at the time she wasn’t seeking out more romantic attachments. She was seeking friends, as we had just moved across the country to a place we didn’t know many people, and the romance was accidental. I believe in seizing opportunities life provides, which is one reason I was inclined toward giving my blessing to her pursuing the crush she’d developed.

At one point, when Sofia and I were talking about our feelings, I said something like, “I wish I had asked for us to work on our own relationship before opening it,” and she replied, “It’s a bit late for that.”

 

[Magdlyn]

The answer to your initial question: "Is this a new triad?" would seem to be yes. A very new triad. You ask a general question: "How do I not screw this up?"

You can work on your relationship with Sofia NOW, while you start up one with Ben, and Sofia starts one up with Ben. It seems like Ben being in the picture was a catalyst for change for both you and Sofia.

I am not sure what caused the huge rift between you and Sofia, a lack of sex, emotional intimacy, feelings of shame on her part for being a "bad spouse," your neglect of taking responsibilities for household chores. Maybe having a kid threw a big monkey wrench into the works. That's extremely common, so it would be my guess.

Now that Kiddo is a bit more independent, you and Sofia have more time for intimacy between the two of you. But there are many bad feelings around that which have not been worked through. And both you and Sofia are drawn to the unexplored, one might say, untainted good feelings you have for Ben. There's no history there, no bias. He's the "new and shiny" person, and so, very attractive. A clean slate.

I wonder how Ben feels about being in the middle of a couple who were/are struggling to get along.

I think you and Sofia could benefit from couple's counseling, if your problems, feelings of guilt, shame, frustration, etc. seem insurmountable. It's not fair to expect Ben to solve all your problems just by being nice, fuckable, cuddly, a buffer between the battling spouses.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello zestyzed,

It sounds like you and Sofia's still have problems within your relationship, even though the entrance of Ben has improved things a bit, and added a welcome diversion. I would say you have a new triad, although there's no way to be sure how long that will last.

I would vote for continuing with the relationship with (both of you and) Ben, while continuing to work on your relationship with each other. What are some of the things that are driving you apart? Would a couple's counselor be able to help the two of you?

Thanks for sharing your story,
Kevin T.

 

[zestyzed]

Oof. So last night while Sofia had to work late, Ben came over, we played a board game, had some intimate conversation, and we had sex. We both had a great time, but in the morning, Sofia was Not Pleased. I had asked several times if it was okay if Ben came over to spend the night with me, and she'd said it was fine, but I guess I had not made it clear that we might have sex. I think also she was feeling some of the same kind of hurt that I had felt when she and Ben were just getting together.

Regardless, I think the work on her and my relationship may have suffered a significant setback. I asked her if she'd be willing to try couples therapy, and her response was, "Why?" and in our discussion she asked other questions I have a hard time answering like "Why do you love me?" and "Why do you want to have sex with me?" I don't know how to answer in words something that I just feel in my heart, and it felt like she took my lack of answer as an admission that I don't actually feel that way. And she said "Couldn't you have found someone else to have sex with?" as if it wasn't the connection that Ben and I felt that led us to having sex rather than just wanting to have sex with anyone (which is the same reason I want so much to have sex *with Sofia* rather than seeking sex with some other woman)

We've both been texting with Ben, poor guy. Sofia and Ben have a date planned for tonight, so I hope that goes well. The connection developing between me and Ben has shifted my outlook on Sofia and Ben's time together. Now I feel much better about it, maybe because it seems like Ben now has an interest in Sofia and my relationship being stronger? I'm not sure.

So, where do we go from here? I'm going to look into couples therapists, I guess, and see if I can convince Sofia to try it with me. And I would really like to spend the night with Ben again and I'm quite sure that the feeling is mutual, but that probably won't be for another week.

 

[kdt26417]

Sofia is having some jealousy feelings about you and Ben. It's like you should have a nice triad relationship, but Sofia is throwing a wet blanket over it. Also, she is doubting you when you say you love her and want to have sex with her. She is testing you, and the test is rigged. If you can't answer her "Why?" questions, then that supposedly proves that you aren't telling the truth. She surely knows that things are amiss in your marriage. Isn't that what a couple's therapy is for, is to address the problems in the marriage? Or is she on her way out, and doesn't want to be convinced to stay? I hope not, but that's kind of how she's acting.

 

[zestyzed]

I think she is of two minds about it. When she is feeling better about herself and life in general, it seems that the "stay with Zed" thoughts win out in her mind but when she is feeling down, the "fuck it, this is too hard" thoughts win out. This has been the pattern for several months at least.

 

[kdt26417]

Well, I hope she gets feeling better about herself and life in general. Otherwise it's like a vicious circle!

 

[Magdlyn]

If Sofia won't do couple's therapy, you can do individual therapy on your own. Find a poly-friendly therapist. Be forewarned that anyone who knows anything about poly will tell you that adding a new person to share to a couple that is struggling is never going to work. It's like many couples think, "We aren't getting along. Let's have a baby!" That is not going to make a marriage better. In fact, it makes it harder because your marriage needs work, but there's less time than ever to work on it because a baby needs so much care.

Your relationship with Sofia needs care. If she honestly doesn't think this marriage where you fight a lot and never have sex could be helped by a therapist, but could be helped by both of you becoming infatuated with someone else, she's in denial.

 

[zestyzed]

Yeah, I’ve been doing therapy since my “oh shit” moment when Ben and Sofia were getting together. Sofia suggested it when we were talking afterwards. At the time she had just started therapy again, but the therapist she was with didn’t work out, and that sort of soured her on therapy in general. For me, it’s been more helpful than not, but it does cost money…

We have both been knowing that adding another person to the mix isn’t really helping our relationship, but that’s not why we’re doing that, y’know? On the other hand, it has pushed us towards doing things that have helped, even if it has caused conflict, so maybe, all things considered, it has helped? Not that I would necessarily recommend this route to others, mind.

 

[Bobbi]

Sofia and I talked and agreed that things needed to change. I offered to take on more household responsibilities, because that had been a major source of resentment. And we agreed to set aside time for just her and me to spend together

That did help a lot, although I still felt very sexually frustrated because, although it was a revelation for Sofia that she could enjoy sex again, our sex life had not improved. And all the time and effort that I was spending thinking about our relationship and coming up with ideas for making it better was contributing to her stress and feelings of inadequacy as a spouse.

After we talked about this, we agreed to take sex off the table for a month. Immediately I felt relief, no longer worried about when we were going to have sex again. And I was able to dial down the intensity to a comfortable level, so we could work together on feeling comfortable together and non-sex intimacy

This is almost exactly how I de-escalated my relationship. I felt like I was reading my story.

Sofia's and my relationship has dramatically improved through all this. We are spending and enjoying time together, apart from our domestic duties. But apart from the one time with Ben, our sex life is still nonexistent. I really want that to change, but in the past bringing it up has contributed to Sofia feeling pressured and worsened her anxiety about it, which just makes the problem worse.

This happened with us too, so I took sex off the table permanently. The relief I felt from being constantly rejected was gone, but I had to realize that he was having a happy sex life with her and he just did not want sex with me. I did the work to accept that. He would deny it and give various excuses, but two years later we had a heart-to-heart about it and he admitted he was not sexually compatible with me. I knew I wasn't compatible with him, but I loved him and any sex was better than no sex, or so I thought.

I said something like, “I wish I had asked for us to work on our own relationship before opening it,” and she replied, “It’s a bit late for that.”

This might be a sign she has given up. My partner refused therapy too, and he's a therapist! I worked on myself instead, and got my autonomy back, along with a much better relationship with him. Although we still live together and have shared goals, we are no longer together and we are much happier.

I asked her if she'd be willing to try couple's therapy, and her response was, "Why?" and in our discussion she asked other questions I have a hard time answering like "Why do you love me?" and, "Why do you want to have sex with me?" I don't know how to answer in words something that I just feel in my heart, and it felt like she took my lack of answer as an admission that I don't actually feel that way.

It sounds like she was looking for a reason to do counseling. That's how I would have done it. I asked those same questions to my guy and got nothing. But if he asked me, I could tell him so many reasons and ways I loved him. I believe you can just love people, but that kind of love probably won't sustain a relationship. If you cannot find reasons to love her, then you will probably have a hard time participating in the difficult task of digging deep in therapy. She might see your lack of an answer as evidence that therapy would be a waste of time, because you don't know "why" you are even in a relationship with her.

When my partner couldn't come up with reasons he loved me, it hurt badly. I knew he loved me, but not knowing why meant he didn't see me. It meant his love was a generic love you feel for someone who has always been in your life, instead of someone you choose because they are special. It made me feel like I could be anyone and it wouldn't matter. I should have been his sister, not a lover. And that's more of the type of relationship we have now.

In my situation, we were able to talk about it long after the relationship was done and we felt safe being honest with each other. He loved me and still does to this day. He never wanted to hurt me, but he just didn't feel those romantic feelings for me, no matter how much he wanted to.

And she said "Couldn't you have found someone else to have sex with?"

This can get really messy, if you and him become a thing and you and her end things. This is where I think it might be headed.

as if it wasn't the connection that Ben and I felt that led us to having sex, rather than just wanting to have sex with anyone (which is the same reason I want so much to have sex *with Sofia* rather than seeking sex with some other woman)

That's what she is afraid of... it is a connection. So, what was a clean partner for her just became a messy one. She would rather you find someone outside of her circle for you to connect and bond with. It would make de-escalation so much easier if you both had outside partners.

Having lived this story, I don't have high hopes for your romantic relationship. That being said, that was my story and might not be yours.

My story does have a happy ending, though. We worked through everything, got honest with each other and are best friends and platonic nesting partners. I've gone on to find a partner that was a game changer. My nesting partner is our biggest fan and is so happy I found him. Compersion runs strong in our home. Although he hasn't found his yet, he has a girlfriend and is enjoying dating and I'm happy for him.

 

[zestyzed]

she asked other questions I have a hard time answering like "Why do you love me?" and "Why do you want to have sex with me?" I don't know how to answer in words something that I just feel in my heart, and it felt like she took my lack of answer as an admission that I don't actually feel that way.

I asked those same questions to my guy and got nothing, but if he asked me I could tell him so many reasons and ways I loved him. I believe you can just love people, but that kind of love probably won't sustain a relationship. If you cannot find reasons to love her then you will probably have a hard time participating in the difficult task of digging deap in therapy. She might see your lack of an answer as evidence that therapy would be a waste of time because you don't know "why" you are even in a relationship with her.

When my partner couldn't come up with reasons he loved me, it hurt badly. I knew he loved me but not knowing why meant he didn't see me. It meant his love was a generic love you feel for someone who has always been in your life instead of someone you choose because they are special. It made me feel like I could be anyone and it wouldn't matter. I should have been his sister, not a lover. And that's more of the type of relationship we have now.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. After reading this, I spent some time with my journal and came up with a long list of answers to why I love Sofia, and why (and *when*) I want to have sex with her. In the moment I didn't have good answers, but when I sat down with my journal I had no trouble thinking of reasons. Some of them have been constant since we met, and others have developed through our shared history. So, after some reflection, I think these are fair questions to ask, but perhaps not really fair to put someone on the spot with in the middle of a difficult conversation.

I said something like, “I wish I had asked for us to work on our own relationship before opening it,” and she replied, “It’s a bit late for that.”

This might be a sign she has given up. My partner refused therapy too, and he's a therapist! I worked on myself instead and got my autonomy back along with a much better relationship with him, although we still live together and have shared goals, we are no longer together and we are much happier.

Based on the context (which of course you couldn't have known, as I didn't say) I think the meaning of this was more like, "It's too late to go back and work on the relationship before opening it, because our relationship has been open and I am now enjoying romance with Ben, and I can't just turn those feelings off."

And a little update...
Ben and Sofia came home after their date and stayed in the other bedroom together. For the first time, that felt good to me. I felt relieved that they were connecting and that I hadn't fucked everything up, and I trusted that Ben had an interest in Sofia and my relationship being strong, rather than wondering if he secretly wanted to break us up (or just didn't care). Though we didn't get a chance to talk before she had to go to work, Sofia's demeanor was much more relaxed in the morning, and it seems like she's working through the difficult feelings she was experiencing before. And I texted a little with Ben, and he and I are still good.

I think the move with Sofia is going to be to take sex off the table indefinitely (different from permanently!) because it's stressing her out and I think there are more fundamental aspects of our relationship that need work before we can consider trying to put it back on the table again. I asked my therapist for leads on a couple's therapist that might suit our particular needs, so we'll see where that goes.

 

[kdt26417]

It sounds like things are going much better with/for the three of you, that is good to hear. I hope you are able to find a good couple's therapist, and that Sofia will be willing to get that therapy with you.

 

[Bobbi]

I think the move with Sofia is going to be to take sex off the table indefinitely (different from permanently!) because it's stressing her out and I think there are more fundamental aspects of our relationship that need work before we can consider trying to put it back on the table again.

She may just need to find that intimacy with you again. Many cannot be sexual without intimacy of really opening up, gaining or growing trust and finding new ways to connect that don't include sex.

I hope you find a good therapist and she agrees to go. I hope you find new, exciting ways to connect with each other that bring you closer together.

 

[zestyzed]

Well, I am definitely beginning to get the picture of why triads are difficult. For much of the last week, it seemed that Sofia was still needing reassurance from Ben that they were still good.

Ben and I had planned to hang out on Saturday evening while Sofia was working, but then she had to stay home after all. Ben and I played a board game while Sofia watched a show. Then I was falling asleep, so I said good night to Ben and went to bed on my own. Ben and I had talked about maybe trying to have a serious talk, but with me ready to pass out, it wasn't happening that night. And as I got up, I noticed that Sofia seemed stressed, so I didn't want to contribute to that, especially if I was just passing out anyway. Sofia came up to check on me and asked if it was okay if she stayed with Ben, and I said sure. She gave me a hug and went to sleep with Ben.

On his way out the door in the morning, Ben gave us both hugs and I had a good feeling about things. Yesterday, Sofia and I had a really good talk and agreed about working on our relationship, although the details of that still need to be sorted out.

Ben has been a real sweetie to both of us the past week or so. He checks in over text at least daily. I shared some of how I was feeling-- conflicted, excited, scared, overwhelmed. He shared that he also feels scared, as he was coming out of some difficult personal challenges when he and Sofia got together, and he's worried about losing two of his friends at once if things deteriorate. I don't know if he had a hand in convincing Sofia to consider reconciliation more seriously, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Anyhow, long story short, things are looking up, but we're definitely not out of the woods yet.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi zestyzed,

Thanks for that update. It sounds like you have hit a couple of speed bumps on the road to poly success. But you are doing a good job of addressing the obstacles in a healthy way. There is a saying that goes, "First year forming, second year storming, third year norming." You just may need to get through your "storming" period. Hang in there.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[zestyzed]

I appreciate that. I certainly would not represent that we are out of the “forming” stage here and I think the challenges we are facing are very much of that phase.

I think a big part of what brought us to where we are now was how great it felt for the three of us to be together, and now we are having to figure out some of the other pieces of the triad that had been neglected or are new. There are big feelings associated with all that, some positive, others not so much. And we have been supporting one another through it, with Ben especially doing some heavy lifting, emotionally speaking. I feel grateful to know these wonderful people and I feel hopeful and excited about what’s to come.

One of the bits of perspective I am grateful to this forum for is how short of a time this has all been going on. I especially appreciate the stories of relationships with long challenges that have since been resolved. That has at times given me the critical distance I needed to take a breath and take my own emotional intensity down a few notches. So, thanks for that.