Its a strange new world

[Bluebaron]

Hello everyone,

Im new here and wanted to share my experiences with you.

Background

ME: 46 yo male married for 20 years
wife: 44 yo
3 children aged 14,16,20

In the beginning.....

So a back in June my wife approached me to say that a colleague of hers had recently split up with her long term partner (28 yo lesbian 3 year relationship)
I travel a lot for work and was away one weekend when she stayed over and they had a bit of a kiss and a cuddle and a bit of finger play.
Following this my wife and I discussed the fact that she had bisexual feelings and wanted to explore more with this woman.
I was happy to agree as my wife and I have a very solid and loving relationship and I didn't feel that I wanted to restrict her in pursuing things in her life that she wanted to.
Following that they spent the night together and we discussed the next steps. My wife explained that she had enjoyed the experience and wanted to continue but also wanted to include me in everything. I had my concerns as this woman identifies as a lesbian but we put it to her and she agreed!
At this stage in our relationship it was basically a sex based thing and neither of us had ever done this before.
After a few times we all talked together to see where this was going and we agreed that we would carry on with a few basic rules which included the fact my wife and her would get one to one time occasionally and that would only be when I travel. the rest off the time would be spent as a three.

The Middle,

This all worked fine for a few months and we felt very comfortable to even start telling a few of our select family, friends and even the children!
However as we move forward my wife and our partner have become increasing close and are now pretty much in love. they identify as girlfriend and girlfriend and are spending lot of time together as a two(sexually).

The Now (six months in)

I am really committed to making this work at a three with but fear that I'm being left behind. I have only had one brief sexual experience with my new partner without my wife present and that caused a few insecurity issues for my wife and also our partner feels that her sexuality as a lesbian(!) was being pushed too far. Also the sex side is now about 80% them alone and 20% as a three and I when I mention it I get the told off and to stop moaning!

I don't know if I'm being impatient in wanting/hoping this new partner to develop deeper feeling for me and she recently told me that she sees me in a "friends with benefits" category which I was a bit upset about.

I really care for them both and we have a great relationship outside the bedroom but I feel I need more with her to feel equal and included.

Thank-you for reading, Any advice would be welcome.

BB

 

[Magdlyn]

Hello everyone,

Hi, Bluebaron. Welcome. In our Guidelines we suggest you pick nicknames for your partners and metamours, so for now, I will call your wife Honey, and her gf Alice. You can pick other names, of course.

I am a 46 yo male, married for 20 years to Honey, 44 yo.

In June, Honey approached me to say that a colleague of hers, Alice, had recently split up with her long term partner (28 yo lesbian, 3 year relationship).

I travel a lot for work, and was away one weekend when Alice stayed over They had a bit of a kiss and a cuddle, and a bit of finger play.

Wow! You didn't freak out when Honey basically cheated on you while you were away? It was just all fine? Had you ever discussed polyamory or any kind of open relationship before? Were they drunk?

Following this, Honey and I discussed the fact that she had bisexual feelings, and wanted to explore more with Alice. I was happy to agree, as Honey and I have a very solid and loving relationship, and I didn't feel that I wanted to restrict her...

That was very broadminded of you, following her cheating on you, with apparently no former discussion about Opening your relationship by having sex with Alice. Unless I am reading you wrong.

Following that, they spent the night together, and we discussed the next steps. Honey explained that she had enjoyed the experience and wanted to continue, but also wanted to include me in everything. I had my concerns, as Alice identifies as a lesbian, but we put it to her, and she agreed!

As you can now see, the NRE (new relationship energy) made Alice go against her true desires, just to get access to Honey.

At this stage in our relationship it was basically a sex-based thing. Neither of us had ever done this before.

After a few times, we all talked together to see where this was going, and we agreed that we would carry on with a few basic rules, which included the fact that Honey and Alice would get one on one time occasionally, and that would only be when I travel. The rest off the time would be spent as a threesome.

It sounds like a limited triad. The women wanted to be together sexually and romantically, you were jealous, you needed to be included as much as possible. Despite this supposedly being about Honey exploring her lesbian side, you made it into a thing where you got to at least watch Honey get it on with Alice. You found that exciting.

The Middle

This all worked fine for a few months, and we felt very comfortable, to even start telling a few of our select family, friends, and even the children! However, as we moved forward, Honey and Alice have become increasingly close, and are now pretty much in love. They identify as girlfriend and girlfriend, and are spending lot of time together as a couple (sexually).

The Now (six months in)

I am really committed to making this work as a [triad], but fear that I'm being left behind. I have only had one brief sexual experience with Alice, without Honey present, and that caused a few insecurity issues for Honey. Also, Alice feels that her sexuality as a lesbian (!) was being pushed too far. The sex side is now about 80% them alone, and 20% as a triad, and when I mention it, I get the told off and to stop moaning!

I don't know if I'm being impatient in wanting/hoping Alice to develop deeper feeling for me. She recently told me that she sees me in the "friends with benefits" category, which I was a bit upset about.

I really care for them both, and we have a great relationship outside the bedroom, but I feel I need more with her to feel equal and included.

You can't make someone love you. And triads are extremely rare. Your question is about the most common one we get here. Many formerly mono people think threesomes is what polyamory is! It isn't!

You all dived into this with very little, if any, forethought. You and Honey thought that if the sex happened as a threesome most of the time, everyone would be happy. There would be no jealousy or envy. Instead, in a very short time, the truth came out.

Alice is gay. Gay gay gay. She doesn't desire men, she doesn't desire you. She likes girls! The sooner you can come to terms with this, the better. I know you are disappointed and probably frustrated and sad.

If you're waiting for her to somehow fully fall in love with you, as a hetero or bisexual woman would, I think you're gonna have to wait forever. She's not into you, dude.

I'm sure you're a fine person. I'm sure you're very lovable. Just don't expect a lesbian to love you "in that way," to desire you.

I'm sorry, but it seems it's all a muddle. It could seem that Alice baited and switched you and Honey, that she led you two to believe she could enjoy or even tolerate a man in the mix, while she's having the lesbian sex she enjoys. It turns out, this was not the case. Maybe she was fooling herself too, because she wanted Honey so badly.

It's time to renegotiate. It can be very difficult for a formerly mono straight couple to start practicing polyamory properly and in a satisfying manner. Threesomes are especially tricky. It's not strictly a threeway relationship. It's 3 dyads stacked up.

You and Honey
You and Alice
Honey and Alice

Right now, the middle dyad (you and Alice) seems to be taking its true shape as "platonic friends." If she's only been able to stomach 1 one-on-one sex session with you, I'd say the sexual part is non-existent. I don't think a confirmed lesbian will suddenly come to love a guy. It's not unheard of, but it's very rare. I wouldn't hold my breath.

The next question is, can you joyfully consent to Honey and Alice being a romantic couple, and having their sex be private? It would be cruel to suddenly veto their relationship of deep love, just because you feel left out. Most poly people know that vetoes don't work. Even if Honey let you veto, to "save your marriage," she'd resent you forever, and Alice would be heartbroken. Your old marriage is over. Your new marriage is taking its shape. Transitions are difficult. But you can work through this.

What can Honey do to reassure you of her love? Leaving out Alice, what can you and Honey do to nurture the "You and Honey" dyad?

And then, if you enjoy polyamory, would you consider getting your own new partner? Most poly couples date separately. Honey has Alice (and maybe more in the future...), and you can have someone of your own, or more than one someone.

Read up on couple's privilege. Do a Google or do a search on this site.

Kevin will probably be by with several links to "Jealousy" articles too.

 

[Bluebaron]

Thank-you Magdlyn for your welcome and advice.

Just to clear up a few blanks, I didn't really see 'Honey' as cheating at the time. we had discussed her bi-sexuality many years ago and I had said if the opportunity arrives then take it. The first time really only involved some kissing and I think a bit of finger play. She then came to me to discuss whether I would be happy for her to go further etc.

I didn't even think about the three-way thing at the time that was all Honey's suggestion although it may have been a power play to get me onside.

if I really analyse it I can live with the sex thing being more 50/50 (even though at the moment its 80/20) but I'm really committed to making it work as a triad. Im not interested in taking a separate partner outside of the three as I'm committed to Honey and want to make it work with Alice.

Alice has said frequently that she really enjoys the time as a three. When we 'got it on' as a two briefly, she was very into it but unfortunatly we hadn't discussed the issue with Honey before hand (boundaries etc) and she reacted a bit negatively which pushed Alice back as she didn't want to upset Honey.

I wouldn't want to end the relationship between Honey and Alice for the reasons you've said and also because I love Honey and want her to be happy. I'm not into Poly for the openness of relationships. I'm only in it if it can work as a Triad for the three of us which is what we all started to achieve.

Only the future will tell if we can make it work I guess.

 

[Magdlyn]

Thank-you Magdlyn for your welcome and advice.

You're welcome. I'm sorry you're struggling. You're not alone.

Just to clear up a few blanks, I didn't really see 'Honey' as cheating at the time. We had discussed her bisexuality many years ago, and I had said if the opportunity arrives, then take it. The first time really only involved some kissing and I think a bit of finger play.

"A bit of kissing and fingerplay" is what women do. That's lesbian sex. I see no reason to downplay it. Fingers can really make a person feel good, feel aroused, and cum. It's sex. Even if they didn't get completely naked, they got into each others' pants.

I'm glad you had given consent to Honey have sex with a woman previously. Maybe you hadn't discussed previously that if Honey found a gf, the gf would be required to also fuck you regularly, and preferably every time she fucked Honey. Preferably frequent threesomes, but also one on one fucks with the new partner, and with your wife. You'd have a set schedule: you and both women, you and Honey, you and new gf, Honey and new gf. And no deviations. Keep it all equal, all the time, week after week, month after month, year after year, til you die (or wear out).

Does that sound ridiculous to you, at all? It does, to me.

As you see now, 6 months in, neither woman wants to stick to this kind of required schedule, with moping on your part, if there is a deviation.

She then came to me to discuss whether I would be happy for her to go further, etc.

I didn't even think about the three-way thing at the time, that was all Honey's suggestion, although it may have been a power play to get me onside.

Yes. It's kind of (very) awkward now, though, isn't it? Threeway sex takes a certain mindset, a lot of sharing, taking turns, making sure no one feels left out, everyone gets to cum as much as they desire, etc. It's a big sexual skill that takes lots of practice and highly developed social skills, from enthusiastic partners. One on one sex is much, much easier.

Add in that one of your partners is a (gold star, until now?) lesbian, and it gets much much more awkward. I think Honey did Alice a disservice by adding you into the mix. Also, Alice, as your unicorn, might be being overly polite. Many unicorns don't think their needs and desires are as important as the needs of the couple Borg they are trying to fit themselves into.

If I really analyse it, I can live with the sex thing being more 50/50 (even though at the moment its 80/20), but I'm really committed to making it work as a triad. I'm not interested in taking a separate partner outside of the three, as I'm committed to Honey and want to make it work with Alice.

It's always a red flag if you have to work on a relationship so early in. What if Alice really isn't into you? What if Honey wants more girl sex and really doesn't want you in there, in a threesome? And if Honey feels awkward if and when Alice and you get it on one on one, it's not fair for you two to stop just because she feels a bit uncomfortable.

In poly, it's important for a formerly mono couple to become less enmeshed, start to think as individuals, and not as a unit. It's not going to work otherwise. All three of you are individuals with separate needs, tastes, phobias, fears, insecurities, sexual quirks, abilities, etc. What you want in a gf is not what Honey wants in a gf.

Alice has said frequently that she really enjoys the time as a threesome. When we 'got it on' as a twosome briefly, she was very into it, but unfortunately, we hadn't discussed the issue with Honey beforehand (about boundaries, etc,), and Honey reacted a bit negatively, which pushed Alice back, as she didn't want to upset Honey.

Mmhm.

I wouldn't want to end the relationship between Honey and Alice, for the reasons you've said, and also because I love Honey, and want her to be happy. I'm not into poly for the openness of relationships. I'm only in it if it can work as a triad for the three of us, which is what we all started to achieve.

What if it doesn't work as a triad? What if Alice breaks up with you to save Honey's feelings? What if Honey breaks up with you because of your "moaning" and jealousy? What if both women break up with each other and both break up with you? What if Alice and you remain coupled, and Honey breaks up with both of you?

My point is, there are so many moving parts in a triad, which is why they hardly ever work.

Only the future will tell if we can make it work, I guess.

The future should bring much negotiation and extremely open honest talks about who and what each of you really wants (as an individual), and is really capable of. You seem to be holding out for 50/50. You get a fuck with both women for every time they fuck each other one-on-one. (Is that a threesome you get each time they do a one-on-one, or do you get a one-on-one with each? Or do you get a threesome and two one-on-ones?? ) Does Alice get a one-on-one fuck with Honey every time you and Honey have a one-on-one fuck too? What if Alice and Honey refuse your requirement for the tit for tat 50/50 (however you define that) and maintain they'd rather 80/20?

The future won't magically make that happen. Work, deep, emotional, giving, sharing, listening work will (maybe) bring this all to a place you're all kind of OK with.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Bluebaron,
Here are the jealousy links that I have:

• What If I Get Jealous?
• Unmasking the Green-Eyed Monster
• "First Aid" for Jealousy
• Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc.
• Understanding jealousy
• How do you achieve compersion?
• Jealousy and Insecurity
• The Theory of Jealousy Management
• The Practice of Jealousy Management
• Teal Swan: Jealousy and Envy
• Brené Brown: the Power of Vulnerability

It sounds like the key here is for all three of you to agree to a 50/50 arrangement. The 80/20 setup isn't working. Sit down with them, and explain that you need a 50/50 setup. Don't threaten or use ultimatums, just tell them that this is what you need. It is okay to advocate for your own needs.

The two main obstacles I see are, first, that Alice is lesbian, not bi. And second, that Honey is not okay with you having one-on-one sex with Alice. You need to discuss these obstacles with them, and find out what can be done to overcome these obstacles. You are committed to making a three/triad work. This means you are willing to engage in the communication that has to be done. At the same time, ask yourself if you are at all jealous, and if so, what can be done about it.

I hope the three of you can work things out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[LBeyond]

Just to clear up a few blanks, I didn't really see 'Honey' as cheating at the time. we had discussed her bi-sexuality many years ago and I had said if the opportunity arrives then take it. The first time really only involved some kissing and I think a bit of finger play. She then came to me to discuss whether I would be happy for her to go further etc.

I'd said that to my own wife a long while back, but as Mag said, yeah that's lesbian sex, mate. Always good to know you gave the go-ahead though. Still, right now I think it's safe to saw that Honey and Alice are very much in the NRE stage of their relationship, and perhaps Alice hasn't (and might not be able to) enter NRE with you, outside of an accessory to sex with Honey. While that may be initially off-putting, the fact she regards herself as lesbian but also says she enjoys the group sex with you involved is a positive.

Rather than look at the quantity of sex you are having in comparison to either of them, perhaps look at the fulfillment you are or aren't getting? At different times in my life I've been sexually dysfunctional and uninterested, to wanting much more than my partner could accommodate for. In neither situation should my wife or I have felt unwanted, but it did happen. If you aren't getting enough sex to satisfy your current needs, try not correlating that with how much sex they're having. That's a huge in for jealousy where there doesn't need to be one. "I'm feeling alone/left out/unwanted" is different than "You two get sex so much more than me!" Even if the relationship continues to be more like a V than a triad, Honey and Alice being considerate of your needs in the relationship will go a long, long way. So will your being considerate of their new relationship.

 

[dingedheart]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Hello everyone,

ME: 46 yo male married for 20 years
wife: 44 yo
3 children aged 14,16,20

In the beginning.....

So a back in June my wife approached me to say that a colleague of hers had recently split up with her long term partner (28 yo lesbian 3 year relationship)
I travel a lot for work and was away one weekend when she stayed over and they had a bit of a kiss and a cuddle and a bit of finger play.
Following this my wife and I discussed the fact that she had bisexual feelings and wanted to explore more with this woman.
I was happy to agree as my wife and I have a very solid and loving relationship and I didn't feel that I wanted to restrict her in pursuing things in her life that she wanted to.
Following that they spent the night together and we discussed the next steps. My wife explained that she had enjoyed the experience and wanted to continue but also wanted to include me in everything. I had my concerns as this woman identifies as a lesbian but we put it to her and she agreed!

I’m confused as WHY you wife wanting to explore her bi side with a card carrying lesbian and wants to include you ?? What could you possibly contribute or add to her mid life crisis and or her sexual self discovery ?? For me sitting up in the cheap seats it looks to me like you wife has set this up to reap maximum benefits and control with the least amount of stress, jealousy and or pain.

Triads never work. And there’s a reason they call married couple seeking young hot BI chick unicorn hunting. I’m not sure what you call married couple seeking young hot lesbian chick.? Except..... disaster.

This all worked fine for a few months and we felt very comfortable to even start telling a few of our select family, friends and even the children!
However as we move forward my wife and our partner have become increasing close and are now pretty much in love. they identify as girlfriend and girlfriend and are spending lot of time together as a two(sexually).

All 3 of you kids know ?? And how did they react to this information ?? “ hey just want to let you know mom and dad are dating this 28 yr old lesbian woman ...yup know what you’re thinking mom exploring her bi side! ...thanks meeting adjourned “ OK great have fun “.

The Now (six months in)

I am really committed to making this work at a three with but fear that I'm being left behind. I have only had one brief sexual experience with my new partner without my wife present and that caused a few insecurity issues for my wife and also our partner feels that her sexuality as a lesbian(!) was being pushed too far. Also the sex side is now about 80% them alone and 20% as a three and I when I mention it I get the told off and to stop moaning!

You can’t make this work ! And you are being left behind and there is zero you can do to change this is being told off and to stop moaning. To me that should tell you all you need to know. Stop beating your head against the wall. Go find your own partner. Also I’d check out the article and concept of poly Hell. I’m surprised kev didn’t link that one but it’s easy enough to find. And in a nut shell it’s demotion, displacement and intrusion.

I don't know if I'm being impatient in wanting/hoping this new partner to develop deeper feeling for me and she recently told me that she sees me in a "friends with benefits" category which I was a bit upset about.

I really care for them both and we have a great relationship outside the bedroom but I feel I need more with her to feel equal and included.

Thank-you for reading, Any advice would be welcome.

BB

I think she’s gently trying to let you down and tamp down expectations. And it wouldn’t surprise me if this slide continues until you’re just a close friend and metamour .

They’re not interested in you feeling equal and included....I get the picture they wished you would take a hint and shut up and go away and stop bugging them.

 

[kdt26417]

Re:

"Also I'd check out the article and concept of poly Hell. I'm surprised Kev didn't link that one but it's easy enough to find."

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell

 

[Bluebaron]

Thank-you to Kevin for the article links. I've read though a lot and conclude I'm not Jealous but certainly have elements of envy that I need to work through.

Also the link on 'poly-hell' was very good.

I've always tried to be open and honest about everything I am feeling. I get that they are caught up in the NRE and Alice doesn't have those kind of feelings for me.
Alice and I get on extremely well, we go out together, talk openly and have a great friendship. When we sleep together as three she's totally into everything and I feel it's all working very well.
I know I will never have the kind of relationship with her that Honey have and I guess I have to deal with that the best I can. It's still early days and we've had so much pressure from each other and people around us. Generally things are going well but yes I do feel that eventually either my relationship with Alice has to move forward or we end up as just friends with her and Honey having a sexual relationship.

Also since my posting I've talked to Alice to say that Im feeling left behind sexually and she's agreed that since our 1-2-1 event two weeks ago she's pulled back but now she's happy to pickup the pace a bit, so open communication does work!!!

As a side note on Alice's sexuality she has told me that in her mind she must be as least a bit BI-sexual to be doing what she's doing and enjoying it.
She has never had a loving relationship with a man and had only slept with two men on basically one night stands and didn't come out or even think she was gay until aged 23.
She has said that ultimately she would want to marry a woman and have kids but she's happy for this at the moment.

 

[dingedheart]

Re:


http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell

You’re the man

Official greeter and link coordinators/provider.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hello Bluebaron,
Here are the jealousy links that I have:

• What If I Get Jealous?
• Unmasking the Green-Eyed Monster
• "First Aid" for Jealousy
• Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc.
• Understanding jealousy
• How do you achieve compersion?
• Jealousy and Insecurity
• The Theory of Jealousy Management
• The Practice of Jealousy Management
• Teal Swan: Jealousy and Envy
• Brené Brown: the Power of Vulnerability

Thanks for providing the links, Kevin. But once again, I think you're way off base in your advice, such as the following. Or maybe you're just saying it in an awkward way.

It sounds like the key here is for all three of you to agree to a 50/50 arrangement. The 80/20 setup isn't working.

Oh hell, no! Honey and Alice do not "need to" agree to a "50/50" (whatever that means) arrangement. They get to do what they want to do. Blue Baron can request anything he wants. The women can agree, disagree, or make their own suggestions. Maybe compromises can be reached.

Sit down with them, and explain that you need a 50/50 setup. Don't threaten or use ultimatums, just tell them that this is what you need. It is okay to advocate for your own needs.

I don't think BB "needs" a 50/50 setup. Putting numbers on it like that, as a requirement, would be disastrous. He'd like more sex with Honey. He wishes he could have more one-on-one sex with Alice. He wishes he could have more threesomes. If wishes were horses, all men would ride. He can put that on the table, and see what his wife and metamour have to say in response.

The two main obstacles I see are, first, that Alice is lesbian, not bi.

Correct. Just as if a hetero person has a few gay experiences, as an experiment, isn't automatically gay, just so, if a gay person has a few het experimental forays, doesn't change her to bi or straight.

And second, that Honey is not okay with you having one-on-one sex with Alice.

Well, of course, they did that without discussing it with her, so it was a slap in the face. It's possible Honey could become OK with BB having sex with other women one-on-one. I don't think it will be Alice. But who knows? It could definitely be other women, if this crazy triad only experiment morphed into actual polyamory.

You need to discuss these obstacles with them, and find out what can be done to overcome these obstacles. You are committed to making a triad work. This means you are willing to engage in the communication that has to be done.

I don't think BB is "committed" to a triad. He just wants one, because he has monogamous and hetero-normativity bias and privilege as his mindset. I don't think the women are "committed" to a triad either. They want to be gfs, and don't really want BB involved in their sex anymore. It seems Honey, at first, thought she couldn't "do poly without my man in the bed," but she's outgrown that newbie idea and enmeshment.

And of course he's jealous and envious. That's the reason he's here.

 

[Bluebaron]

Hi Magdlyn,

sorry my replies are a bit out of sync as I'm a new poster and they have to be moderated.

Again thank you and others for sharing their experience and opinions.

Alice has made clear to me that she is happy and wants to have sex as a three around twice a month. Sex with Honey isn't a problem we have a very active and healthy sex life.

I made clear to Alice that as her and Honey have become closer my expectations and feelings have changed as well. I told Alice that I wanted a three-way relationship (A triad if you will). Obviously as a lesbian she's not onboard with that but she is being honest and fair (as I am) by saying that she can give me only so much, and that is as a close personal friend and occasional sex as a three twice a month.

It's up to me if I can accept that or not.

I also need to consider how often honey and Alice get to spend time together sexually as I'm still coming to terms with that and although I don't want to restrict things I still can't get over the 'fairness' issue at this stage.

BB

 

[Vicki82]

I think I am very much in the, this is putting the cart WAY before the horse, opinion.

The way BB's post is laid out with the beginning, middle, and now makes it sound like this is a long term thing. But this is a very, very new relationship still in the throes of NRE. It seems to me to be way too fast to even be having to worry about where things are going (or frankly, for telling kids, but that's a personal decision that every parent needs to make for themselves).

if I really analyse it I can live with the sex thing being more 50/50 (even though at the moment its 80/20) but I'm really committed to making it work as a triad. Im not interested in taking a separate partner outside of the three as I'm committed to Honey and want to make it work with Alice.

Alice has said frequently that she really enjoys the time as a three. When we 'got it on' as a two briefly, she was very into it but unfortunatly we hadn't discussed the issue with Honey before hand (boundaries etc) and she reacted a bit negatively which pushed Alice back as she didn't want to upset Honey.

I wouldn't want to end the relationship between Honey and Alice for the reasons you've said and also because I love Honey and want her to be happy. I'm not into Poly for the openness of relationships. I'm only in it if it can work as a Triad for the three of us which is what we all started to achieve.

Only the future will tell if we can make it work I guess.

Bluebaron, so if it turns out that Honey and Alice want to have their own relationship and have a V with you rather than a triad, what then? Are you going to pull the plug because you aren't involved? Or are you saying you would happy with it being a mono/poly relationship and you just wouldn't seek partners for yourself?

I don't really get the even thinking of sex as ratios at all. Sometimes I have sex more frequently with my husband; sometimes with my boyfriend. Sex drives and desires wax and wane, not to mention the vicissitudes of daily life. If anyone was demanding "equal" sex, I'd have a problem with that. If either of my partners told me they wanted more sex without it being a comparison, I'd be much more open to that. Thinking in terms of wanting more sex just because your meta is getting more sex feels pretty icky to me, personally.

Think in terms of getting your needs met and looking at your own relationship with Honey. Don't look at what's going on with Alice because it's not relevant to your dyad as long as your needs are being met. If they aren't, then negotiate that specifically.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi Magdlyn,

Sorry my replies are a bit out of sync, as I'm a new poster and they have to be moderated.

No worries. Once you hit 5 posts, the moderation will end.

Again, thank you and others for sharing their experience and opinions.

Alice has made clear to me that she is happy, and wants to have sex as a three around twice a month.

Alice is happy with Honey as a gf/sex partner, and happy with you as a friend. Good. New friends are great.

Sex with Honey isn't a problem. We have a very active and healthy sex life.

That's great too! Honey still has a strong desire for you, despite being wrapped up in NRE with Alice. Sometimes NRE leaks over from a new relationship to an established one. Also, Honey is probably feeling good about herself, since she is enjoying exploring her lesbian side, feeling more her authentic self. When you stop repressing part of your sexuality, you feel more whole, and happier, which can lead to an increased sex drive in general.

I made clear to Alice that as her and Honey have become closer my expectations and feelings have changed as well. I told Alice that I wanted a three-way relationship (a triad, if you will). Obviously, as a lesbian, she's not on board with that, but she is being honest and fair (as I am) by saying that she can give me only so much, and that is as a close personal friend, and [having] occasional sex as a three, twice a month.

It's up to me if I can accept that or not.

Of course, there is no choice but to enjoy the twice monthly threeways (if they do happen, which remains to be seen), or to not engage with Alice sexually at all. You can't force her to have more frequent sex with you, either with Honey in the bed, or one-on-one. People are not sex toasters, which provide the sex toast any time you press a button.

Especially in our current culture, with an active awareness of the #metoo movement, women's boundaries need to be scrupulously respected. And that includes the idea of offering lots of booze and weed in hopes it will lower a reluctant or disinterested woman's inhibitions. One of my last bfs had this "brilliant idea" after his NRE for me wore off. He thought he could get with my female long term partner too, if he could only get her high and drunk enough. I had to dump him when his intentions became clear. It was disgusting. We were both traumatized by his sketchy predatorial behavior.

I also need to consider how often Honey and Alice get to spend time together sexually. I'm still coming to terms with that. Although I don't want to restrict things, I still can't get over the 'fairness' issue at this stage.

What "fairness?" Sex isn't a commodity. Why do you even need to know they are having sex? They like each other. They want to spend time together. What they do when together is really none of your business. Alice also doesn't get to restrict how often Honey has sex with you. It probably hasn't even crossed her mind to attempt that.

The best remedy for "envy" is to make sure you feel connected enough to Honey. It can be difficult sometimes for a person in NRE to make sure enough quality time is going to the established partner.

And you are very very focused on sex. Just a note: Polyamory is about love, not sex.

If you feel you desire more sex (love, friendship, etc.) with someone new, fresh and shiny, you will need to get out there and find someone for yourself, the way Honey found Alice for herself. You don't just automatically get to glom on to her gf. It doesn't work that way, and that is not a healthy respectful attitude.

 

[Bluebaron]

Thanks, sound advice.

Just picking up on a few things.

Firstly I don't know if I want to have another partner and secondly even if I did Honey has strictly forbidden it. She see's me having a relationship with another woman as a totally different thing to what she is doing. Mainly because her new partner doesn't have a penis. I said there's. no difference but have been shot down more than once by her and a few of her (female) friends.

I have also made it very clear to Alice that the relationship I want with her is not about sex. She's the one who is 'offering' it to me, maybe she feels guilty about Honey, I don't know. But that's how it started and she has stated very clearly that it's something she enjoys and wanted to continue.

I am suffering very badly with anxiety when Honey and Alice get together sexuality and that's something I'm working though, if I can't get through it then we will all have to have an honest conversation.

I am looking at my needs and its been established that they cannot be met, (by Alice as a lesbian). If my needs are not being met then again its full circle whether I back out and let Honey and Alice carry on without me, except what Alice it offering, " a companion who deeply cares for me and has sex with me, just not as often as I would like it" (her words!), or be the arsehole and tell Honey to call the whole thing off.

BB

 

[vinsanity0]

Thanks, sound advice.

Just picking up on a few things.

Firstly I don't know if I want to have another partner and secondly even if I did Honey has strictly forbidden it. She see's me having a relationship with another woman as a totally different thing to what she is doing. Mainly because her new partner doesn't have a penis. I said there's. no difference but have been shot down more than once by her and a few of her (female) friends.

I have also made it very clear to Alice that the relationship I want with her is not about sex. She's the one who is 'offering' it to me, maybe she feels guilty about Honey, I don't know. But that's how it started and she has stated very clearly that it's something she enjoys and wanted to continue.

I am suffering very badly with anxiety when Honey and Alice get together sexuality and that's something I'm working though, if I can't get through it then we will all have to have an honest conversation.

I am looking at my needs and its been established that they cannot be met, (by Alice as a lesbian). If my needs are not being met then again its full circle whether I back out and let Honey and Alice carry on without me, except what Alice it offering, " a companion who deeply cares for me and has sex with me, just not as often as I would like it" (her words!), or be the arsehole and tell Honey to call the whole thing off.

BB

Your wife and her friends are way, way off base on that one. You are clearly the more "woke" one there. It's funny because I had typed out a long response to your OP. I had to step away from the computer and forgot to hit send and lost it. I'm glad that happened because I made several assumptions about you.

I think now it's clear that you are mostly mono and trying to make the best of the situation. It's a shame your wife is dismissive of your feelings on this. I think Alice probably understands. I also think it's a shame your wife has invoked a One Vagina Policy on you, even if you have no interest in pursuing other women. That ownership mentality is very selfish.

 

[Evie]

Hi BB

Why are you experiencing anxiety when the women have sex without you? Is it the orgasmic experiences you're imagining their having, or the pillow talk you think might be happening?

And forbidding you to develop any other relationships is not a recommended practice in poly circles. We generally encourage opening up couples to date separately anyone of the gender(s) they are romantically and sexually attracted to.

 

[Bluebaron]

"Why are you experiencing anxiety when the women have sex without you? Is it the orgasmic experiences you're imagining their having, or the pillow talk you think might be happening?"

I really don't know. It been hard this week I've been away from home for 9 days. I was told Alice would stay over Sunday, Tuesday and that Honey would go to hers Friday afternoon and return Saturday morning.

I now find out that she came over Monday night, and Thursday afternoon until Saturday afternoon.

To be fair I said she was welcome anytime so no boundaries have been pushed but I think I underestimated how I would feel with them spending so much time together.

 

[kdt26417]

Well, when you're told that one thing will happen, and then the plans change midstream, that can be hard to handle. That is an awful lot of time they are spending together, I wonder if the NRE is getting a little out of hand.

 

[Bluebaron]

Well, when you're told that one thing will happen, and then the plans change midstream, that can be hard to handle. That is an awful lot of time they are spending together, I wonder if the NRE is getting a little out of hand.

It may well be.

Its all new and we are all adjusting. I. read on another post that breakups are hard but sticking with something that's not working over time is harder.

Ill guess i'll see how it pans out in the new year.

Merry Christmas everyone!

BB