Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc.: Merged Threads, General Discussion

I agree with so many others already posting.

I do get jealous over time.

In the buckets:

I'm not jealous about bodily touch. Sex, were it cootie free, I think would be fine. Seeing a body nekkid is the outer shell. It's fun, so why not?

I'm not jealous about mind touch. The meeting of the minds is a headgasm I love. Friendship can go there. Have as many friends as you want!

I'm a pinch jealous about heart touch. But again, friendship can go there if it stretches a bit. And the world needs more love anyway, so keep me in the loop there and I can be totally ok and compersive.

I am totally jealous about soul touch. I've parked pieces of my OWN soul in DH, and expect his soul to guard it. We're so enmeshed at this point I can't STAND the idea of a soul ambush on me via the back door that is him. So I get jealous there in spades.

Please, meta whoeveryouare, treat my babies right-- the baby that is me, the baby that is my partner.

If one must be dinged, ding me then. It is the expected piper price. If I break, I will be furious, and I will not like it, but I'll deal.

If you ding him? Fine. If you break him, without honor?! I will be ENRAGED. I will KILL.

At the same time, if your soul wants to dance around on the head of an angel/devil pin with ours, come on IN! Just behave like a Jedi, not like a freakin' Muppet.

So that's where my hardest handle/leash is. The soul-bucket jealousy. Greatest risks for greatest rewards.

It's a huge high, chasing that particular poly dragon. I got to taste it once, and I lived and loved, for a very short while, on a burning heaven/hell pendulum swing as a MFM hinge. Oh, it was bittersweet. That's why I'm around now. We're not opening any time soon to a new lover. But I'm getting my shit together in case we choose to go there again later.

GG
 
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I agree. It would be one thing for Nathan to have sex with other women. I don't even like the idea of that. I admit I like having him to myself. I have accepted it before though, and could again. Luckily, I don't think I will ever have to.

If I am honest with myself, I really don't think I could cope with Nathan loving someone else. In fact, I think I would fall to pieces. I know that's not very poly, but it's the honest truth.

Nathan said:
This is because my girl and her lover have allowed me to see them being intimate together, and I have seen with my own eyes how special their sexual chemistry and connection truly is. Also, they have their set nights together, these nights have increased recently. I have now also given my consent for her lover to come to our house when the urge takes them, even if it's not one of their nights together, my girl also goes to his place sometimes. So I guess a tiny fleeting glimpse of jealousy comes when I see him giving my girl pleasure to a degree that I cannot.
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Nathan, we have a special sexual connection also. :) It may be special for different reasons, and the sex I have with you may not be as orgasmic as it is with Scott, and you can't make me physically feel the way he does, but our lovemaking is more beautiful, and you make me feel loved and special, and girly, and beautiful, and Scott doesn't do that.

Things will get back to normal after Scott and I have got over this weird NRE type of feeling that we have at the moment.


Nathan said:
I have a great deal of confidence in the love we share, the emotional touch, as you call it. I think I would be jealous if I could see that she shared stronger bonds of affection with him. I don't see that, although I know that she loves him. Could I cope if she did love him more?
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I will never love Scott or anyone else more than you (again, not very poly)! I could never feel more affection for anyone than the love and affection I feel for you. I love you more and more every day. xxxx
 
Help with polyandry

I posted an thread in the introductions section. IDK how to link to it, sorry.

Basics: GF and I are accepting her BFF "Jack" into our life sexually. Otherwise nothing changes. She already stays with him 2-3 nights per week.

I don't fear losing her and trust nothing has happened prior to "the talk," but I am looking for tips on "being cool with it" and showing her that I am.

Thanks. Much love.
 
Is it wrong?

I have two men in my life who have just about the same exact personalities. Is it wrong to care about them both? (They know about each other.)
 
Sounds alright to me crazylilb206. As long as everyone is consenting, you should be fine.

@ NorCal ... how well are you personally acquainted with Jack? Spending time with him and developing a friendship with him would probably please your girlfriend, I would imagine, and it would probably help you feel more cool about the whole situation.

Heh, and here's a link to your intro thread: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=265578#post265578
 
Envy. My girlfriend's husband has it. She and I have a spark and they don't. I have everything with her that he always wanted. He's envious and falling apart about it. What are we supposed to do?
 
Hi pcflvly,

It seems to me that a poly-friendly counselor is needed for your girlfriend and her husband. Possibly a sex therapist. Something is putting a damper on their physical and emotional intimacy, and that would sour anyone's mood.

Sorry you're experiencing that difficult dynamic.
 
Jealousy with some partners and not others?

I am in something between a v and a triangle, and have a non-related partner as well.

I have had a really hard time with some metamours, and not others. I'm trying to decipher this. Here are factors:

The partners of metamours I have an easier time with:

In the balance of it, I get more of what I want out of the relationship with them.
There have been fewer (or non-existent) weird power dynamics around sleeping together/time/commitment.
They express a joy about their partners.
They express a joy and gladness about me more frequently and unreservedly.
They have told their partners about my importance to them, and told me about that.

The metamours I have an easier time with:

Are more primary than me, OR
With the ones that are less, know about me, and have expressed joy about my existence.
Pre-dated me by a long time, rather than appearing about the same time as me.
Generally have wanted to get to know me, though with the one who chose not to know, I have nothing but good feelings for.

(In theory, I think I'd have a hard time with someone newer, but this has not happened yet. It will. And when it was broached, I got squishy.)

The thing I feel the worst about and would like to get over: I have one metamour that got involved in a freakishly hard dynamic. It seemed that every time a date happened, there was miscommunication about it. I first met her with no one telling me she would be there, and she didn't get introduced to me until conversation had gone on a while, and then not by the partner we had in common, which is more understandable, given that tragedy had hit and we met at a funeral. And it seems even harder to get over that one partner was not ready for me to sleep with our partner solo for over 3 months, while she was fine with this metamour sleeping with him from the beginning, and during the same time frame. But that was probably due to the three of us forming a triad.

So that was all over 6 months back, and I feel, c'mon, I should be over this by now. But somehow, I suspect it still affects things, and I have way more jealousy than I am comfortable having.

The other thing I'm hoping to get from this post: one of my partners has a hard time with his metamour through me. I'm trying to figure out how to make it as easy as possible, but it seems he is as squishy about his metamour as I am about mine. We're different people, and the golden rule doesn't often work. So, hearing some thoughts about if the same things that help me help you would be lovely!
 
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Do you think I maybe don't have problems with the metamours per se, but problems with how the partners relate to me? Like, I had problems not being communicated with, or being given sexual freedom, or being stood up for, and my subconscious mind is saying, "I don't like this, but I can tolerate this for now, within our relationship, but not, for whatever reason, when it comes out around metamour issues"? Like I'm expecting them to be solid and perfect if they are sleeping with someone who isn't me, almost in compensation? How sick is that? But it sounds true.
 
The thing to remember with "problematic" metamours who get all weird and dictator-ish, and seem to cause trouble or want to try and control the love life of their partner, is that it isn't all them. Your actual partner ALLOWS it to happen. So, a lot of the time, the issue is: why isn't this partner standing up for you, and why do they let their OSO domineer, and/or be disrespectful to you? And then it follows to ask yourself why you tolerate this kind of bullshit. Nothing happens in a vacuum.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

The thing I feel the worst about and would like to get over: I have one metamour that got involved in a freakishly hard dynamic. It seemed every time a date happened, there was miscommunication about it. I first met her with no one telling me she would be there, and she didn't get introduced to me until conversation had gone on a while, and then not by the partner we had in common, which is more understandable given that tragedy had hit and we met at a funeral.

And it seems even harder to get over that one partner was not ready for me to sleep with our partner solo for over 3 months, while she was fine with this metamour sleeping with him from the beginning, and during the same time frame. But that was probably due to the three of us forming a triad.
Click to expand...

This was a bit hard for me to read without names. Let me repeat that back so I know I got it right, ok? I will take the liberty of putting some generic names in there. You correct me if I get it wrong.

I date Apple. Apple dates Banana. Apple also dates Cherry. ​
​
When Apple would make dates with Cherry, there was a lot of miscommunication about calendars. When I first met Cherry at a funeral, it was rough intro because Apple did not introduce us at the funeral. Someone else did. ​
​
Cherry acts like I do not exist or matter to Apple, or in Apple's life. (Is this true? I get that vibe even though it is not spoken.)​
​
What also makes dealing with Cherry rough is that Banana had a hard time with (me and Apple) being together solo for over 3 mos. But Banana was ok with (Cherry sleeping solo with Apple) from the beginning. ​
​
Over time, me, Apple and Banana formed a triad. ​

Could it be the experience with (You + Apple) chilled her out, so later she was more able to be chill about (Cherry + Apple?) when Cherry arrived on the scene?

Could any of page 5 and page 6 stuff help here?

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf
I had problems with not being communicated to, or being given sexual freedom, or being stood up for, and my subconscious mind is saying, "I don't like this, but I can tolerate this for now, within our relationship, but not, for whatever reason, when it comes out around metamour issues"?
Click to expand...

This to me sounds like you trying to articulate needs. Like...

I need to have a sense of BELONGING and SAFETY in my poly network. In order to get there, I would like my poly network people to...​
​
  • communicate clearly with me
  • stand up for me
  • acknowledge and respect that I have a place in this network (<-- my guess)

​
I need to have a certain level of AUTONOMY in my poly network. In order to get there, I would like my poly network people to...​
​
​
  • be ok with me sleeping solo with a hinge when (hinge + I) are ready for that to happen.
  • I expect hinge to deal with hinge's other partners' emotions on that, as partners. That is closer than them to me as metas so I see it as the hinge's job. And it is part of hinge standing up for me/us/our mini dyad in the network(<-- my guess)
Is that somewhere in the ball park, or did I guess totally wrong and it is some other need you are trying to articulate?

Maybe you could print and circle the ones that apply here and list WHO you would like help from.

To me, this sounds gnarly to unravel because you have a large polymath and some people wear multiple hats like "both my partner AND my meta."

Maybe just do problem solving with one person at a time, rather than the whole bunch at once.

Galagirl
 
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Galagirl, as usual, right on, except Apple, Banana and I were a triad to start. So I guess neither Apple or I stood up for Apple and my right to sleep together, both trying to protect Banana's feelings in a way that was ultimately unhealthy, postponing sleeping together for over 3 months past when we wanted to, till eventually I knew I couldn't tolerate the jealousy that would happen when Banana went off to meet and sleep with Durian, who she met long-distance around the same time as me, while Apple and I were still forbidden to sleep together, and she did not want to sleep with me individually.

Cherry predated me, but not by much. She was sleeping with Apple by the third date, which happened just before A, B, and I met. And at first, Cherry did act like I didn't have a strong place in Apple's life, but has since become a friend and acknowledges this strongly, and my sense is a large part of that is in trying not to cause jealousy, Apple did not give her a sense of that place.

I had actually just realized before reading this response (thanks to NYCindie's comment) that a key thing, all the way through, was this "place in the network" thing. I was thinking of it as "recognizing the bond." When a bond is or was recognized by a metamour and lover, including any standing up for that is needed, and making the bond clear, I have a fine time with that metamour. When either didn't, it was rough on me. This extends to outside people, like family. There's a complicated family situation with Banana that has strongly mimicked the same dynamic, though it's gradually improving.

As to why I put up with that shit-- family history. It's familiar (no pun intended). I'm not good at the bonds myself, thinking about it. Not so much with my triad (who had served as primaries), but with my bonds with others in front of my primaries.

Changing myself is where I can start to effect change. My guess is if I start with that, people might shift along with me. And if not, I'll at least feel more confident in my right to ask for this.

Thank you both for your insights. This talk has recently caused a huge backing off emotionally for me with Apple and Banana. It's nice to know where the roadblock is.

It also helps me both with what one of my metamours might need from me, and what my kids need from me.

All sorts of good insight, here.
 
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So, also in the network is my other lover Fandango and his wife Tango. Fandango is absolutely devoted to Tango, and says so clearly. It is so beautiful. He is also utterly devoted (though not quite as smitten) with the others of us in his network, and lets us all see this about each other, while he also lets us know how smitten he is with us, too. Recipe for lots of compersion.

Tango has my utmost respect. She is mono. She has a hard time with the poly, a lot, which I totally get, and I totally admire her for being willing to tolerate it for Fandango's sake. She floors me, in a good way, a lot, which is a large part of why Fandango is so nuts about her. Tango still has not only respected the bond F and I have, but has been actively supportive, like actually suggesting a weekend away or that he come look after me when I was sick. The two of them, and their example, is why I'm realizing what hurts and that there is a better way out there. I hope that a triad happens with them someday, except with compersion.

The positive side of huge poly networks. Thought I'd share because I like that part of the story.
 
Gala Girl, would you help me articulate a few more needs into the schematic?

This is incredibly helpful because lately, Apple and Banana have both said that they feel that there is always a problem and I am difficult to date. I'm rejecting the globalness of that because I probably am for each of them, but on the flip side, incredibly easy for Fandango. I think part of what makes it difficult with A and B is that 1. I have a hard time articulating global needs, and 2. They have a hard time going from specific complaint to global needs and fixing it. I've been respecting their need for peace by backing off - way off- until it feels comfortable for me, in the last week or so. But wondering if a clear schematic would be helpful to at lest have.

Here are the other two areas I have trouble with:

Decisions are made without me sometimes that affect me. From clearly someone's territory: changing their days off from what the three of us can spend together, to what two of them can spend together, without discussing it (with either me or the other partner) in an attempt to meet a need with the other partner, which is a clear violation: deciding on a goodnight phone call with the three of us, complete with specific time, and approaching it as a fait accompli on the date. (I assume the needs here are I want clear communication and a chance to give input on decisions that affect me. (Not asking for change, just input), and autonomy as a dyad over what happens as a dyad. (I'd be open for input, but have a problem with decisions being made for me.)

Asking me to adjust my behavior for someone else's fears. This is what happened early on with Banana asking me to not sleep with Apple, and later with her asking me to be a primary partner without a strong physical relationship present, for fear reasons. (It was stated she could not date me unless I was prioritizing her above others.)

I assume the need here is to take responsibility for your own feelings and not try and control them by controlling the behavior of others. And autonomy, in whether I continue the relationship, and in what form, which I took back by going ahead and backing off to non-primary status, and letting chips fall as they would (more comfortable for me).

Also, I need reciprocity. I need not to be the one always doing the scheduling, calling, etc. I would like as much as they would to not always be bringing things up, but it would need them taking responsibility for things such as figuring out what the needs are, checking in, and asking about them.

I'm okay with letting the relationship be what it is, and having that be less important as the needs are not being met. I think I'm going to have to for a while. I'm hearing clearly "we need some time of less turmoil here." (Especially in a time of personal difficulty for one of them that is needing extra support from us all). But I would like to balance this peace with eventual articulation of those needs, which in my mind beats the alternative of getting into yet another conflict where I say, "this feels bad to me." I prefer being proactive, and think we do better with it.

(Can you see why this might be difficult for them to hear? It is big, and complex, and lacks the simplicity of Galagirl's analysis. This is a problem. Works well for Fandango because he is the same way, and in fact, this depth and complexity makes it easy for us to date because of similar communication styles. Conflicts are stated and gotten and done in entirety in a matter of minutes. Works poorly for A and B.)
 
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A very cool poly moment came out of this. Just as I was writing Fandango's wife to say thank you for her support, which finally I could do without feeling awkward because I recognized that the recognition of roles of the others in our lives is crucial, and part of what I wanted to do--- into my inbox came a note from another metamour and future threesome partner saying she was sorry I was sick enough to have to put off our threesome, and recognizing that her time with Fandango was better because they were both thinking of me. (It made me happy thinking of them, too. Next best thing to being able to join them.)

I really do love being in a big network.
 
I will guess. I could be wrong, because even with names I still have a hard time following the story. So correct me, ok? And I mean all this kindly. Not in a rude way or anything... but trying hard to condense a lot of data so you hopefully get some feedback you can think about as you find your own way.

PROBLEM

You do seem to have a hard time articulating needs, but I do not see that as the main problem now that you write more.

Their behaviors are the main problem, and the fact that they blame-shifting rather moving on to than problem solving.

Result? You go off in circles wondering if it was you, focus no longer on their bad behavior or on moving anything forward. They are off the hook.

It's the "change the spotlight" game.

So I guess neither Apple or I stood up for Apple and my rights to sleep together, both trying to protect Banana's feelings in a way that was ultimately unhealthy
Click to expand...

Protect Banana from what? HAVING some feelings? Taking personal responsibility for managing her own emotions and learning to respond to them appropriately in her behavior? Learning to do conflict resolution without it being a big deal?

Tango has a hard time sometimes with her feelings. She behaves like an emotionally mature person dealing with some tough feelings. She doesn't go off having a cow at people.

YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS

You spend a lot of time going deep on details, comparing and contrasting partners. In short, going in circles, like you are overwhelmed or emotionally flooded.

Back the truck up. You have a poly network, yes. But your main problems are with just two. Apple and Banana. FOCUS.

Might be easier on you to reduce it to BEHAVIORS. Like this. (I quote just to visually set it off)

THEIR BEHAVIORS

We all agree to a certain day off for the 3 of us to spend together. Without telling me, Banana and Apple change their day off, go off on their own, and stand me up. They think this is ok to do. I don't mind them having a day for just them, but I don't like just being stood up. (lack of consideration, lack of follow through)


We all decide on a goodnight phone call with the three of us, complete with specific time. It does not happen. I am stood up. (lack of consideration, lack of follow through)

I bring these concerns up. They tell me there's always a problem and I am difficult to date. (blame shifting (vs problem solving) + not wanting to change any of their poor behaviors or be held accountable for how their behavior affects other people)

MY BEHAVIOR

They ask to adjust my behavior for Banana's fears. I say yes. Then I overdid it and bent over backward. I did too much. I rebalanced that by taking ownership of my stuff to a place that was more comfortable for me, and letting chips fall as they would with them.

I carry most of the load. I need not to be the one always doing the scheduling, calling, etc. I could stop OVERDOING again, and just let the chips fall where they might.

I could deal with my tendency to overdo things, keep it more balanced for me, learn to say NO.

MY SHORT-TERM PLAN

Stop putting so much energy into this relationship.

Let it be whatever it is, less important/not primary, etc.

Everyone take a time out.

MY LONG-TERM PLAN

Stop NOT doing my job because I am worried about things being “difficult for them to hear.”

Be worried, but do my job anyway! Go with (my stuff/your stuff.) My job here is to communicate. I am not malicious about it. Focus on doing my job.

Their job is to receive the broadcast and do active listening. If they do defensive listening instead, they could choose to change that.

If they behave poorly when I make them aware by acting out, and trying to shut me down rather than trying to problem solve with me,their response to bad behavior is MORE bad behavior, tough. I'm doing my job -- broadcasting the message.

It's on them to respond appropriately rather than act out.

  • Don't want to hear it anymore? They could practice some SELF CONTROL then and stop behaving like a mess in the first place. No calling into account necessary then. We are all grown ups, not toddlers.
  • Alternately? Stop dating me. Then I don't call them on their poor behavior. They can keep bad behavior and they can go date people who are easier to run roughshod over.
  • Alternately? *I* stop dating them myself. No longer worth the price of admission to be dating emotionally immature people. While it would be nice for them to step up and do personal growth, I have to accept I cannot MAKE them grow.

I decide if being here is worth the price of admission at this time or not.

BOUNDARIES

Tell them what I need, the problems I see, and what I would like each person to do. Ask if they are willing to do that.

  • If no? Walk away.
  • If yes? Hold them accountable from this point forward.

For example, if we make a date for three, unless it is a medical issue or emergency, we do not cancel the date. I do not just get stood up anymore.

I need consideration. If I still get stood up 3X, you are out. I accept changes in behavior take time, but I am not the endless fountain of patience.

More than 3x screwing up is more than enough for me. They are not serious about changes in behavior to consider me more.

I stop dating them. Problem solved.
Click to expand...

In other words, YOU set a boundary for yourself. You stand up for yourself. If it gets crossed, YOU set your behavior plan. You make them aware of this. Then you sit back and let natural consequences happen. It becomes super simple for you. They don't want that to happen, they practice some SELF CONTROL.

Right now they sound like they practice OTHER CONTROL – wanting you to be the mommy and arrange the world so it is cushy for them, they never have to feel yucky, and they never have to change their behaviors to include consideration for others. It's toddler memememe.

Now here is the feedback on metacommunication -- not WHAT you say, but HOW you say it.

HOW TO SAY IT PLAIN

You could work on your communication – be way clearer. Babies need smaller sentences.

  • I see you do X.
  • I would like you to do Y.
  • Are you willing to do Y? Yes or no?

If you talk to them like you write here, I get the vibe you overexplain. Could stop explaining so much to them. It's important for YOU to get, but the main thing is change the behavior.

You are a parent. Remember toddler parenting? It was like programming a robot. Tiny sentences telling them what to DO.

"Hang the towel, please." (<-- you are here with these toddlers, teaching them what to do.)​

vs.

" Don't you remember Mommy saying to always hang the towel after your bath? We need to hang the towels or else mildew can happen and then they get gross. It makes more work for Mommy because she has to do the laundry." (<--- you seem to think you are here. This is elementary school -- teaching WHY we do what we do. They are toddlers.)​

But they are not actually toddlers even if they are emotionally immature. You could adjust your communication level so when you ask for behavior changes it is easier for them to understand what behavior you want.

But you could still expect all of you adults to own it.
  • You own your behavior and choices.
  • Apple owns Apple's behavior and choices.
  • Banana owns Banana's behavior and choices.

You could ask for what you want. You could articulate your boundaries, WITH consequences YOU can do. They can agree to what you ask, or decline.

They might or might not change their bad behaviors/choices... but YOU can change something, your "staying-ness" behavior/choice.
Click to expand...

CONCLUSION

Apple and Banana sound less emotionally mature than you.

You seem to have a better time with Durian, Fandango, and Tango.

Would it be so horrible to let Apple and Banana go, and just be with those three in your network that are closer to where you are?

If you want to try one more time with Apple and Banana, that is your choice. But maybe before you go down that road you step back to weigh it out. Is it still worth the price of admission here, even if they never change? Can you accept them as they are?

To me it sounds like a whole lot of hoopla for too little return. But I am not you. YOU decide if being here is still worth it to you or not.

If you are going to try
  • Talk in smaller sentences, like toddler parenting. Stop explaining so much "global needs" stuff. Just tell them what to DO. Be specific. Short and sweet.
  • Focus on behavior done/not done. Ignore any toddler whining out of them about how you ALWAYS do X and NEVER do Y and how EVERYTHING is so haaaaard!
  • Count strikes. 3 strikes you are out. Toddlers can count to 3.

Hopefully the feedback helps you figure out if you want to try again or let it go.

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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Thank you- that is a very helpful take. Especially the going around in circles/spotlight bits- well, all of it helped clarify and give me something to think about.

I did want to step up and correct a few things,

Just for posterity- first, there wasn't any actual standing up per se, just lack of the communication I would have liked.

Also, the making communication simpler should help- this has even been asked for. I'm thinking of it as not so much a negative mature/immature dichotomy, but something that can be used for it's strengths on both sides. My partners, together especially, have this really beautiful way of resolving problems where things are so well heard, that they barely need to mention things and allude to them, and it's heard and healed.
Often addressed, too. The huge advantage of that is they don't have to spend much time in discussion. My style may be "university" compared to the approach of my partners, but the beauty of "all I need to know in life I learned in kindergarten" approach of my partners is part of why I love them. Mine has it's advantages, too, though- it's great for stopping problems from reoccurring.


If we can balance that present-leaning with future-leaning, we'd all benefit. The question is if there is a balance to be found, and I think I'd like to try for it, because when things are good, they really are good.
 
Glad the feedback was helpful for you in clarifying your own thoughts about how you want to approach this problem. :)

GL!

Galagirl
 
What's a reasonable time frame for someone to work on their jealousy?

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the forum, and new to actively doing polyamory (as opposed to just thinking really hard about it). I've been married to DH for 5 years, and known him for 15. We get along just super-amazingly well, have excellent communication, laugh about everything, and trust each other completely. He was quite nervous about all this at the outset, and I'm really proud and grateful for what a sport he's been.

I recently (2 months ago) began seeing someone, a friend from work. There was a single stupid indiscretion while we were away on business together, and we both immediately realized that a) neither of us wanted to be cheaters, but that b) we did want to be together. So we both came home, went to our spouses, and began laying the difficult groundwork to do this ethically. On my end, that's gone brilliantly, and my husband and I are communicating even better than before, and both enjoying the fruits of our efforts.

On his end . . . not so much. His wife has been theoretically open to it, and intellectually ok with it, but is responding very jealously and emotionally. She has thrown down fuzzy land-mines and been passive-aggressive (giving permission for things, and then getting mad about them), and coming up with all sorts of rules seemingly designed to keep us in FWB territory and out of BF/GF territory (no hand-holding, no going to the movies, she's ok with sex, but not with "dates," etc.). In her defense, he had also withheld some information from her (the fact that we had sex that first time, and the fact that he did meet up with me for a drink on a night he wasn't supposed to while she was out of town), and she rightly felt betrayed and like they needed to work on their trust issues. I am 100% behind this, as I don't want to wade into a mess, but I also trust that these were just stumbles for him, as this is all completely new. He made some stupid mistakes and is actively committed to doing better.

So my question is, what's a reasonable time-frame for someone to work on these issues? I don't ask to push, or rush, but more just because all the reading I've done about fixing the refrigerator, and working on jealousy and trust, indicate that there should be progress, because if there is no progress, then it's not being done honestly. But what does progress look like, realistically? I'm sure it's different for everyone, but I'm trying to get a sense of where my boundary should be. When it will be clear that other people aren't doing the work they've said they're going to do, and I should walk away?

I am completely empathetic and sympathetic to her, and I am not at all interested in hurting her or coercing her into something she truly doesn't want to do. I'm genuinely hopeful that this will work out, and I want to give her the space and time she needs to figure her stuff out. But I just don't have any idea what that kind of timeline even looks like, so in the meantime, I'm just a lost little secondary, floating around out here, having had the gate shut on an undeniable emotional connection and not sure what's coming next.

Thanks everyone. If I'm being a jerk, let me know. I don't want to be a jerk.
 
It's very hard to say. It can take literally years for a relationship to recover from infidelity, which is one of the many reasons that polyamory starting out from cheating often doesn't go so well. Everyone's timeline for that kind of healing will be different, and it's very likely (and, IMHO, incredibly understandable) that the jealousy isn't going to go away. So no one is going to be able to give you a good answer, unfortunately. It's hard to "work on jealousy" when one is simply trying to wrap one's head around having one's entire life having been rewritten without consent, which is what is going on in her life right now.

It's also possible, and even very likely, that it *won't* go away, because she is very possibly not actually okay with polyamory, and just agreeing in an attempt to save her marriage. She is almost certainly going through grief at the loss of the relationship she had... and it is lost, their relationship may recover, but whether they end up poly or not, it will be deeply changed-- and one of the stages of grief is bargaining.

I realize that's not what you want to hear, but, if it works at all, it's going to take a very, very long time.
 
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