Just LR
- Thread starter LovingRadiance
- Start date
LovingRadiance
Active member
I am making an effort to limit communication to email. Not sure how well that is going to work. But I do agree that engaging in ongoing verbal abuse is a bad choice on my part.
YouAreHere
Well-known member
Yes, this. Document everything, as awful as that sounds. Having a paper trail is an exceptional idea.
Re (from LovingRadiance):
Uh, am I understanding that right ... Did Maca physically threaten Panther? a death threat?
If that's true, then Maca went way beyond the bounds of reason and negotiation. I draw the line at physical violence, and the threat of violence is close enough.
At this point I would consider Maca a dangerous person. I don't know what you can do to protect yourself from him but be really careful. Watch out for the safety of the kids and grandkids. If Maca snaps -- really snaps -- you could end up on the evening news (and not in a good way).
Definitely reduce contact with Maca down to the bare minimum, and like YouAreHere said, start documenting everything (if you haven't started already). Email is great because you can print an instant record of it.
You've got an enraged crocodile on your hands. Be wary and move you and your loved ones to a safe distance as soon as possible. I know "as soon as possible" is probably a long ways off, so, be that much more wary.
I'm so sorry, I know the emotional violence is off the charts.
Uh, am I understanding that right ... Did Maca physically threaten Panther? a death threat?
If that's true, then Maca went way beyond the bounds of reason and negotiation. I draw the line at physical violence, and the threat of violence is close enough.
At this point I would consider Maca a dangerous person. I don't know what you can do to protect yourself from him but be really careful. Watch out for the safety of the kids and grandkids. If Maca snaps -- really snaps -- you could end up on the evening news (and not in a good way).
Definitely reduce contact with Maca down to the bare minimum, and like YouAreHere said, start documenting everything (if you haven't started already). Email is great because you can print an instant record of it.
You've got an enraged crocodile on your hands. Be wary and move you and your loved ones to a safe distance as soon as possible. I know "as soon as possible" is probably a long ways off, so, be that much more wary.
I'm so sorry, I know the emotional violence is off the charts.
monkeystyle
Member
Nobody knows Maca better than you do, and vice versa, I'm guessing. What would be most painful to me is to share so much life with someone just to have them knowingly destroy the bonds that you'd spent so much time building together. By itself that's devastating. If that's what he's consciously doing, then you should be done with him instead of holding out hope. Is it?
If you're participating in it with him and returning each volley with one of your own (haven't quite figured out if you are), then be the grownup and stop giving him largesse to let the garbage keep flying. That's hard to do during a conflict with some people, as the impetus to keep attacking can be so strong sometimes!
I wish you well, LR. You seem like a person who has struggled in her past to figure herself out and are now clinging to your beliefs like a talisman through a dark storm. I sincerely hope all eventually becomes as you wish it to be.
If you're participating in it with him and returning each volley with one of your own (haven't quite figured out if you are), then be the grownup and stop giving him largesse to let the garbage keep flying. That's hard to do during a conflict with some people, as the impetus to keep attacking can be so strong sometimes!
I wish you well, LR. You seem like a person who has struggled in her past to figure herself out and are now clinging to your beliefs like a talisman through a dark storm. I sincerely hope all eventually becomes as you wish it to be.
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LovingRadiance
Active member
monkeystyle,
I'm not volleying. I am very strongly opposed to mistreating people, ESPECIALLY under circumstances like this.
So I took a different route than suggested. But it seems to have had a major effect.
I booked a flight to Kodiak, without notifying him in advance. I flew in for the weekend and explained that while I understand he's hurting AND he's scared AND he's defensive AND he's angry, that he has chosen a route which leaves me as the sole provider to our children AND his abusive messages are damaging to me which means that I am unable to do my job for them.
Yhat I flew in gave him significant pause. What I said left him very chagrined.
He admitted that he'd been a jerk (royally) and that a large part of it is trying to get one up "before" I do the same because that is what his ex did and what his mother did to his father.
But I reminded him, that unlike both of those women, I have retained GOOD working friendships with my exes BECAUSE I don't behave that way.
We also discussed that he needs an outlet to vent (like I do here) where he can vent out all the vile shit he's feeling about me in a given moment; that isn't ME.
I took it one step farther, suggesting that the husband of the couple he's staying with would be a good choice for that, AND let the husband know that Maca needs to DO that so that he can be more in control of himself when he's sending messages to me.
We did NOT try to resolve the base issues between us. I see no point in even discussing it any more. My purpose was to let him know that it's not necessary or productive to be anything but kind and respectful to each other. Period.
At this point he's agreed and apologized. I am hoping that I made a significant enough impression to make it stick.
I told him I love him. I don't agree with him and I'm not willing to tolerate the abusive behavior. But I do love him. I'm not going to treat him hatefully or unkindly.
I'm not volleying. I am very strongly opposed to mistreating people, ESPECIALLY under circumstances like this.
So I took a different route than suggested. But it seems to have had a major effect.
I booked a flight to Kodiak, without notifying him in advance. I flew in for the weekend and explained that while I understand he's hurting AND he's scared AND he's defensive AND he's angry, that he has chosen a route which leaves me as the sole provider to our children AND his abusive messages are damaging to me which means that I am unable to do my job for them.
Yhat I flew in gave him significant pause. What I said left him very chagrined.
He admitted that he'd been a jerk (royally) and that a large part of it is trying to get one up "before" I do the same because that is what his ex did and what his mother did to his father.
But I reminded him, that unlike both of those women, I have retained GOOD working friendships with my exes BECAUSE I don't behave that way.
We also discussed that he needs an outlet to vent (like I do here) where he can vent out all the vile shit he's feeling about me in a given moment; that isn't ME.
I took it one step farther, suggesting that the husband of the couple he's staying with would be a good choice for that, AND let the husband know that Maca needs to DO that so that he can be more in control of himself when he's sending messages to me.
We did NOT try to resolve the base issues between us. I see no point in even discussing it any more. My purpose was to let him know that it's not necessary or productive to be anything but kind and respectful to each other. Period.
At this point he's agreed and apologized. I am hoping that I made a significant enough impression to make it stick.
I told him I love him. I don't agree with him and I'm not willing to tolerate the abusive behavior. But I do love him. I'm not going to treat him hatefully or unkindly.
LovingRadiance
Active member
My heart is pretty broken today. It's been a rough week. The summation of the week is, I had to drop my calculus class because I have to free up more time to spend with the kids. SourPea is having issues with school. Both are having issues with not having Mom enough.
I spent most of today in tears. Due to the guys both failing to follow through on their part of our collective agreement regarding how things would be handled so I could do school, the kids are suffering and that results in me not being able to do all of my classes. $1000 wasted on tuition. $350 on books. And I still have to take the class to get my degree.
I don't think anyone really grasps how much it hurts. I wouldn't have even returned to school if they hadn't been "all in" in regards to ensuring that the kids needs were covered, etc. Both guys pushed me to return to school with assurances that it would be fine. It's not fucking fine. Now I'm stuck in a time-limit for finishing my classes (or I lose the credit) because I claimed my major. And they both are off in their own little worlds, reacting based upon their emotions in a way that makes it impossible for me to keep on track with school.
Ironically, it is going to financially fuck Maca over if I don't finish, for the duration of Sour Pea's childhood at the very least, and most likely for life, because of the damage to credit and financial losses that will come in the next 11 years.
In the immediacy it's hurting the kids and me.
My heart aches. My body aches. My face is burning from the tracks of tears that are carving lines down it.
I am aware that people regularly fail to follow through with their promises. But it still infuriates me.
I don't give a FUCK what goes wrong. I still think it's bullshit.
I rarely make promises because I learned that it's better to just do it. If you promise and can't follow through, that fucks shit up. But if you follow through and no promise was made, people are impressed.
I spent most of today in tears. Due to the guys both failing to follow through on their part of our collective agreement regarding how things would be handled so I could do school, the kids are suffering and that results in me not being able to do all of my classes. $1000 wasted on tuition. $350 on books. And I still have to take the class to get my degree.
I don't think anyone really grasps how much it hurts. I wouldn't have even returned to school if they hadn't been "all in" in regards to ensuring that the kids needs were covered, etc. Both guys pushed me to return to school with assurances that it would be fine. It's not fucking fine. Now I'm stuck in a time-limit for finishing my classes (or I lose the credit) because I claimed my major. And they both are off in their own little worlds, reacting based upon their emotions in a way that makes it impossible for me to keep on track with school.
Ironically, it is going to financially fuck Maca over if I don't finish, for the duration of Sour Pea's childhood at the very least, and most likely for life, because of the damage to credit and financial losses that will come in the next 11 years.
In the immediacy it's hurting the kids and me.
My heart aches. My body aches. My face is burning from the tracks of tears that are carving lines down it.
I am aware that people regularly fail to follow through with their promises. But it still infuriates me.
I don't give a FUCK what goes wrong. I still think it's bullshit.
I rarely make promises because I learned that it's better to just do it. If you promise and can't follow through, that fucks shit up. But if you follow through and no promise was made, people are impressed.
I guess the guys are doing whatever seems easiest right now. They know you'll be compelled to do whatever you have to do to take care of the kids, so quite simply, they don't have to take care of the kids and it's easier for them not to.
Pure self-interest, and not even enlightened self-interest, on their part.
Pure self-interest, and not even enlightened self-interest, on their part.
FieryPhoenix
New member
That pretty much sums it up.
Unfortunately these sort of asshole moves are exactly what gives men a bad rap in regards to parenting.
Unfortunately these sort of asshole moves are exactly what gives men a bad rap in regards to parenting.
LovingRadiance
Active member
Selfishness is usually intermixed with taking the easy route.
It's shitty behavior.
I'm not impressed, at all.
It's shitty behavior.
I'm not impressed, at all.
Anneintherain
Member
I'm so sorry they aren't keeping up their ends of the bargain. I'm hoping some unexpected help comes from some direction so you can keep working on your credits. *support*
LovingRadiance
Active member
So frustrated.
Maca's attitude is "you chose a fuckbuddy over a husband so whatever the issues, this isn't what *I* wanted, it was YOUR choice."
(large emphasis on I).
My attitude is;
Ok so we don't see things eye to eye-but every single step we make from the point that "I chose a fuckbuddy OVER him" as he put it-has ADDITIONALLY consequences.
TO ME minimizing the DAMAGING consequences on the kids (and each other) should be a logical priority.
I don't see any logic or reasoning in the "your fault so suffer" strategy.
I'm not even interested in arguing fault.
He thinks it's "all my fault" FINE it's all my fault.
In the meantime-HIS attitude is creating MORE problems.
So when does he get held accountable for the problems HE is creating?
Never.
That's the answer.
Because any problems he is creating with his attitude are still my fault-because I chose to have a fuckbuddy.
Rolling my eyes.
It's ironic to me; that even if Panther disappeared tomorrow; which would solve Maca's issues with our relationship.
It wouldn't solve mine.
IF I agreed to have no contact with Panther effective immediately Maca would be willing to come home and work on our shit.
But-he can't grasp; that even if I did that (agreed to no contact with Panther effective immediately);
I AM NOT WILLING TO CONTINUE OUR RELATIONSHIP FROM HERE.
It hasn't one time occurred to him that there might be something wrong BESIDES his anger and hurt over me wanting to have a relationship with Panther.
Thus; he has no awareness that even if I gave in to that one request-it wouldn't fix things.
He doesn't realize that his attitude and behavior in the last 6 months has been SO atrocious that I am unwilling to be with him.
In fact; it hasn't occurred to him that there is anything WRONG with his behavior and attitude.
As far as he's concerned, because I did something he doesn't like; he has the right to act any damn way he pleases.
But realistically; what I see is that he has a self-centered, sexist, narcissistic personality.
I find his attitude about relationships and what his rights *should* be within a relationship completely sexist and offensive.
I find his attitude about his rights to threaten and belittle others completely offensive.
I find his general attitude and inability to *at any point* consider the viewpoints of the other people involved in this situation (including his children) to be narcissistic and completely offensive.
And I am so disgusted with my own heart because I love him in spite of all of this.
When he says "I love you" I FEEL violent. Because nothing about his behavior or attitude suggests to me that there is any love there; only a sense of entitlement and ownership.
But I can't even explain these things to him; any of them.
Because he is so fucking determined that he is right and any viewpoint that differs from his is OBVIOUSLY tarnished.
Maca's attitude is "you chose a fuckbuddy over a husband so whatever the issues, this isn't what *I* wanted, it was YOUR choice."
(large emphasis on I).
My attitude is;
Ok so we don't see things eye to eye-but every single step we make from the point that "I chose a fuckbuddy OVER him" as he put it-has ADDITIONALLY consequences.
TO ME minimizing the DAMAGING consequences on the kids (and each other) should be a logical priority.
I don't see any logic or reasoning in the "your fault so suffer" strategy.
I'm not even interested in arguing fault.
He thinks it's "all my fault" FINE it's all my fault.
In the meantime-HIS attitude is creating MORE problems.
So when does he get held accountable for the problems HE is creating?
Never.
That's the answer.
Because any problems he is creating with his attitude are still my fault-because I chose to have a fuckbuddy.
Rolling my eyes.
It's ironic to me; that even if Panther disappeared tomorrow; which would solve Maca's issues with our relationship.
It wouldn't solve mine.
IF I agreed to have no contact with Panther effective immediately Maca would be willing to come home and work on our shit.
But-he can't grasp; that even if I did that (agreed to no contact with Panther effective immediately);
I AM NOT WILLING TO CONTINUE OUR RELATIONSHIP FROM HERE.
It hasn't one time occurred to him that there might be something wrong BESIDES his anger and hurt over me wanting to have a relationship with Panther.
Thus; he has no awareness that even if I gave in to that one request-it wouldn't fix things.
He doesn't realize that his attitude and behavior in the last 6 months has been SO atrocious that I am unwilling to be with him.
In fact; it hasn't occurred to him that there is anything WRONG with his behavior and attitude.
As far as he's concerned, because I did something he doesn't like; he has the right to act any damn way he pleases.
But realistically; what I see is that he has a self-centered, sexist, narcissistic personality.
I find his attitude about relationships and what his rights *should* be within a relationship completely sexist and offensive.
I find his attitude about his rights to threaten and belittle others completely offensive.
I find his general attitude and inability to *at any point* consider the viewpoints of the other people involved in this situation (including his children) to be narcissistic and completely offensive.
And I am so disgusted with my own heart because I love him in spite of all of this.
When he says "I love you" I FEEL violent. Because nothing about his behavior or attitude suggests to me that there is any love there; only a sense of entitlement and ownership.
But I can't even explain these things to him; any of them.
Because he is so fucking determined that he is right and any viewpoint that differs from his is OBVIOUSLY tarnished.
LovingRadiance
Active member
I started the application process for the electrical apprenticeship today. I have to wait until I get my official transcripts in the mail before I can turn it in. But there's plenty of time. I think they have their next session of picking students for the program in November or December with classes beginning in January.
I figure worst case scenario I don't get accepted. But I have all of the required qualifications and as a woman-I'm considered minority status and they prioritize getting minorities in.
If I get in, starting pay is $16/hour + benefits. So if he files divorce paperwork, I won't be without medical benefits.
I'm still working on school. I have a meeting with the advisor on Wednesday. It looks like I have one more class to meet the requirements for an associates degree (not my goal) and I can knock it out over the summer hopefully.
Unfortunately I still have like 43 credits for my bachelors (each class is roughly 3 credits-some are 4). But only 6 more have to be done on this campus. So it's possible that I can knock out enough before I need to take Sweet Pea to California-to be able to finish the last ones up online.
We'll see how the meeting goes.
I figure worst case scenario I don't get accepted. But I have all of the required qualifications and as a woman-I'm considered minority status and they prioritize getting minorities in.
If I get in, starting pay is $16/hour + benefits. So if he files divorce paperwork, I won't be without medical benefits.
I'm still working on school. I have a meeting with the advisor on Wednesday. It looks like I have one more class to meet the requirements for an associates degree (not my goal) and I can knock it out over the summer hopefully.
Unfortunately I still have like 43 credits for my bachelors (each class is roughly 3 credits-some are 4). But only 6 more have to be done on this campus. So it's possible that I can knock out enough before I need to take Sweet Pea to California-to be able to finish the last ones up online.
We'll see how the meeting goes.
LovingRadiance
Active member
The depression is kicking my ass. Anxiety is under control, but the depression is hitting hard.
I'm trying to stay on top of it. But that's not going so well.
I'm trying to stay on top of it. But that's not going so well.
*HUG*
You are getting things done.
1) Seeing Maca as he is. He will not change from thinking you are supposed to be extension of him to thinking that you are your own person. That's progress in the relationship bucket -- seeing his limitations.
2) You are lining up a job to protect yourself financially. Progress in the money bucket.
3) You are meeting with advisor and figuring out how to get your assoc. (good pause place) and planning out what is left of your bac on this campus (6 hrs -- better pause place). Moving it along in the school bucket.
4) Anxiety better, depression still to go. Ok, not DONE in the feelings bucket, but some progress there too. This is good. It's been since Oct which puts you close to 5 mos. Not fun, but seems to be following the chart for stages of emotional change.
Hopefully there's a "lift" when you clock 8 mos.
Hang in there!
Galagirl
You are getting things done.
1) Seeing Maca as he is. He will not change from thinking you are supposed to be extension of him to thinking that you are your own person. That's progress in the relationship bucket -- seeing his limitations.
2) You are lining up a job to protect yourself financially. Progress in the money bucket.
3) You are meeting with advisor and figuring out how to get your assoc. (good pause place) and planning out what is left of your bac on this campus (6 hrs -- better pause place). Moving it along in the school bucket.
4) Anxiety better, depression still to go. Ok, not DONE in the feelings bucket, but some progress there too. This is good. It's been since Oct which puts you close to 5 mos. Not fun, but seems to be following the chart for stages of emotional change.
Hopefully there's a "lift" when you clock 8 mos.
Hang in there!
Galagirl
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SNeacail
New member
In this day an age of internet & paperless record keeping, I still find it ridiculous that "official" transcripts have to be delivered in physical unopened, sealed, paper form.
--What Gala Girl said--
Hugs!
YouAreHere
Well-known member
((Hugs))
He is punishing you and turning it back around on you, absolving himself of any responsibility. Shirking responsibilities to one's kids in order to prove a point will prove one, but not the one he meant to make. You are there for the kids, and they'll see that.
Good news regarding the schooling - here's hoping the courses required on campus can be knocked off before heading down to CA. When do the days start getting long enough up your way to start nipping the seasonal depression in the bud? Hopefully that starts to help things a bit.
He is punishing you and turning it back around on you, absolving himself of any responsibility. Shirking responsibilities to one's kids in order to prove a point will prove one, but not the one he meant to make. You are there for the kids, and they'll see that.
Good news regarding the schooling - here's hoping the courses required on campus can be knocked off before heading down to CA. When do the days start getting long enough up your way to start nipping the seasonal depression in the bud? Hopefully that starts to help things a bit.