keeping ones poly in the closet

[AnnabelMore]

But at the same time I'm never afraid of "spilling the beans" because even if I did tell people something that helped them figure it out, I have no problem with them knowing.

I do think this creates some grey area. If you're not as open as you would be if you were mono, but also not actively trying to hide things, I'm not sure someone could categorize you as either in or out. I think a lot of poly people, and a lot of queer people too, end up living comfortably in this in-between space because it just causes the fewest problems from all angles. I see this as a perfectly valid choice in our society.

Ftr, I don't think one's happiness or unhappiness is what defines closetedness. After all, people who are out can still be unhappy. I'm just thinking about it in terms of how we acknowledge, or don't, our relationships in various situations. Partnered polys who don't have other complications, like Rory's, don't generally have to actively "hide" because it's normal for adults to have close friends.

 

[AnnabelMore]

To further the thought above, I think poly people who are not in an openly acknowledged primary partnership (such as a marriage) but are in one or more emotionally significant relationships that they may not be acknowledging are in a somewhat different position when it comes to how easy/comfortable it is to be closeted. Friends and family ask questions like "So, are you seeing anyone?" and are generally more curious when you appear to be single. It can be very nice to have a partner to mention in terms of relating to other partnered people, letting the people in your life know you're supported and loved, or just enjoying the simple pleasure of talking about how cool your loved one is and how lucky you are. For those reasons, I think it can be tougher when you don't have at least one partnership that you freely acknowledge for what it is.

On the other hand, I think people in primary partnerships who come out as having other lovers/partners face a greater stigma -- "you're cheating on your spouse??!"

 

[Somegeezer]

I was actually hoping the quote would be taken as a stand alone regardless of who said it and in what context as I thought it would be interesting to discuss on its own as much as in the context it was in. Sorry is it pointed you out Somegeezer. Thanks for clarifying your stance.

I guessed you did, I just wanted to make myself more clear. It is an interesting subject. =]

 

[Casey]

I very nearly almost came out as poly to my parents. But, I covered it with a lie. Why? I am not ready yet.

(Shannon and I have a longterm flatmate. In fact she has been my flatmate through various places for about four years, and predates Shannon. My mum was stating she seemed so much more sensible than Shannon <there was a story as to why this was so!>, so why couldn't I be with her? I said "Oh, her boyfriend would object" - "Wouldn't Shannon?" "Oh, right. Well, the boyfriend is scarier than Shannon."

Why didnt I come out? Perfect opportunity. I dont know why.

We are also not out with Shannon's family. Although, two members (same age, and occasionally hang out with our social group) are aware. Because we had to explain it to them as it was in their faces!

 

[OpenandCountry]

To further the thought above, I think poly people who are not in an openly acknowledged primary partnership (such as a marriage) but are in one or more emotionally significant relationships that they may not be acknowledging are in a somewhat different position when it comes to how easy/comfortable it is to be closeted. Friends and family ask questions like "So, are you seeing anyone?" and are generally more curious when you appear to be single. It can be very nice to have a partner to mention in terms of relating to other partnered people, letting the people in your life know you're supported and loved, or just enjoying the simple pleasure of talking about how cool your loved one is and how lucky you are. For those reasons, I think it can be tougher when you don't have at least one partnership that you freely acknowledge for what it is.

On the other hand, I think people in primary partnerships who come out as having other lovers/partners face a greater stigma -- "you're cheating on your spouse??!"

There is a different stigma for the different kinds of poly situations, it's true. People have called me a slut and a homewrecker, My husband is a cheating b*stard or even creepy, and my boyfriend has lost friends because they don't understand why he's dating a married woman, and he has to deal with this every time someone says "so, are you seeing anyone?"-which is pretty much the single equivalent of "when are y'all having kids?" (A question my husband and I get quite frequently this time of year, lol)

 

[Tonberry]

I personally don't understand the idea that by refraining from talking about your partners you are "sparing" other people who "don't want to know".

It's an argument I've heard before, but mostly from the bigoted side (not calling anyone here bigoted, let me explain).
You hear people say "I'm fine with people being gay (or poly) but why do they shove it in our faces? I don't need to know about it."
Yet they mention their wife or girlfriend, invite them to work-related things, talk about women in general, etc. They shove their straight (and/or mono) orientation in people's faces ALL THE TIME.

If you talk about your husband, do you refrain from saying he's your husband? If not, why would you refrain from saying your boyfriend is your boyfriend or your girlfriend is your girlfriend? Don't they deserve the same respect and acknowledgment?

I feel people's narrow minds are their problem. When you say "my boyfriend" and they say "I really didn't need to know that" I don't feel they are any more justified than if I talked about my husband and they went "Jeez I respect your right to be straight but can you please stop shoving it in my face?"

I feel that by caring that much about how people will react if they her about it, by feeling the need to "protect" them, it's really saying "this is a bad thing that needs to be hidden". I feel that it's saying "poly/ non-heterosexuality isn't normal, and therefore I need to hide it".

I disagree with that statement so much. I don't have to think about hiding the fact that I'm interested in males or that I have a husband. I see no reason to hide that I have a boyfriend too. It's NOT "too much information" any more than mentioning my husband is.

Some people are very private and never talk about their personal life. You don't know what their orientation is, if they have someone, who that person is or these people are, etc. It makes sense for me that people who keep everything secret do. They don't have double standards.
But if you're open about one of your partners, I feel you should be open about them all on the same level.

 

[AnnabelMore]

I don't think we can fairly say that everyone "should" be out.

I think it's great when people choose to be out, whether they're casual about it or whether they do a bigger coming out announcement, because it'll make it that much easier for everyone who wants to do the same to follow suit. I also see it as part of creating a more accepting world generally... when people can put a friendly face to a threatening concept it can really shift their thinking about it.

But you take on significant risk when you do so, in some scenarios more than others. People have had their kids taken away over this sort of thing. Everyone has to choose their own level of comfort and their own place of safety. Not everyone is ready to be pushed into the role of activist, and they shouldn't be shamed for that. Personally, I have a bi pride sticker on my car, but I'm not ready to potentially jeopardize my prospects at my new dream job by being out about poly. Maybe someday.

I both agree and disagree with RP. I think that we're usually just protecting ourselves by not outing ourselves. After all, if the worst that would happen to the person learning about your poly is that they'd be grossed out, well, it's good for people to be challenged every now and then... broadened horizons, etc. But in some cases there's more harm than good to be done. For instance, I'm out to my parents but telling my grandma would just make her confused and upset and not bring us closer, so why would I?

Coming out to friends is very important when poly relationships start to get serious, I think. After all, you need someone to talk to honestly, and if you can't trust your friends who can you trust? Parents is a toss-up. If you're gay it's a different story, if you're not out they don't really know you, whereas with poly they just don't know about a particular relationship or relationships in your life and may still be able to be very close to you even without the info about poly. A lot depends on your relationship with your parents. Work and the wider world is a question of personal risk assessment to my mind.

 

[Tonberry]

I'm not saying everyone should be out. I'm saying that I don't get the argument that it's to protect other people from knowing it. If it would hurt them to know, then they're bigoted and you shouldn't care about not hurting them anyways.

But I guess other arguments, such as wanting to keep your job, not wanting to lose custody, or wanting to keep your private life private. I just don't get that other one. It seems to me the only reason why people would have a hard time processing it is that they thing it's not normal, and the reason they think it's not normal is that they're not used to it, and the reason they're not used to it is that people try to protect them from feeling awkward.

If someone asked you what you did last weekend, there is a difference between saying "I fucked my boyfriend" and "I spent time with my boyfriend". You shouldn't have to stop yourself and say instead "I spent time with some people" or something.
Just like if someone asks where you've just been, you can say "Oh, I went to the bathroom" or you can give gross details. Gross details are unnecessary, but mentioning you use the bathroom shouldn't be something you have to avoid. If you find yourself constantly saying "oh, you know, I was somewhere" specifically to protect the people you're talking to from knowing you use the bathroom, I think there is something wrong there.

 

[redpepper]

I personally don't understand the idea that by refraining from talking about your partners you are "sparing" other people who "don't want to know".

It's an argument I've heard before, but mostly from the bigoted side (not calling anyone here bigoted, let me explain).
You hear people say "I'm fine with people being gay (or poly) but why do they shove it in our faces? I don't need to know about it."
Yet they mention their wife or girlfriend, invite them to work-related things, talk about women in general, etc. They shove their straight (and/or mono) orientation in people's faces ALL THE TIME.

What I am suggesting about people not wanting to know is more to do with their apathy rather than hatred. Good point though. Valid for sure. I think if they hated poly then I would talk about it all the more! Apathy ain't that great either though really....

 

[StumblingAlong]

On this topic. I have an interesting story from my weekend that left me feeling quite warm and fuzzy but also very nervous.

My partners(who are married to each other) and i were shopping. My wife and i were bent over a display counter at a jewelry store when behind us from out of no where we hear a woman ask us "so which one of you is the wife?" She and i look at each other quite shocked and splutter that she would have to ask our husband. After he watched us squirm unsure how to answer because we didn't know who she was or why she was asking he informed us that he knows her and that he told her we are both his wives. She didn't believe him or us. We explained that they are legally married but both consider me their wife and I consider them my spouses( this is very rarelymentioned past the realm of our triad). Afterwards reliving the entire incident was quite funny. That same day i was introduced as her girlfriend to someone she has known her entire life. Also we finally filled in his mom who took 24 hours to process it before she cornered him the next day.

Being introduced as the wife/girlfriend in public for the first time was pretty nice. I smiled the rest of the day, because for me it meant that I'm being publicly recognized as having a bigger role in their lives than just a friend would. All of our close friends know about our relationship and now all of our parents know but 1. That 1 will never be told by us because it would cause more problems than it would fix or prevent.

Now, I'm just a wee bit nervous about the holidays with his family. They to my understanding tend to be very judgemental and while i dont mind someone judging me without knowing me I'm worried someone may say something hurtful towards one of my partners and I will become defensive and protective and make a stressful situation worse.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

I tried to come out to my mom once. She didn't want to hear it. I first brought it up by talking about someone else I know going to visit his girlfriend in another city, and how his wife was ok with that. She was like "that's so wrong! That's cheating!" I replied, "no mom, cheating is where you lie about it. But if the wife knows and approves, then it's called polyamory. In fact, Erwin* and I are like that too." And her exact words were "I don't want to hear about that. Don't tell me if you ever do something like that!"

At the time, neither Erwin nor I were seeing any other people, so there was no real reason to press the point. But now I'm starting to date someone else, and if it ever comes to it, I intend to sit down with my mom and really explain all this. I don't want to lie about someone I love.

I had not thought of my lack of need to "come out" as a possible lie or untruth. I don't see it that way. I come out when I am comfortable to do so and when the moment arises. I don't attach comfort to people knowing me in such a way. I guess I am a person that prefers to remain a mystery until such time as I trust enough or feel its necessary to the situation to reveal something of myself. That isn't a lie to me, it isn't an untruth, its privacy.

For the sake of argument, let's be ridiculous. Let's pretend we're all mono, and we're introducing our only girlfriend to our families. How many people would introduce her as "just a friend" and expect her not to be offended?

So why is it any different for a poly person to introduce his second girlfriend as "just a friend?" How is that not just as hurtful as the mono situation?

To me, this is the difference between "coming out" and "lying about the nature of a specific relationship" :

"Coming out" is all about ME. It's about who I am and what kinds of relationships I'm inclined towards. If I don't want to come out to certain people, that's my prerogative, because it's all about me. In situations where my relationship statuses will never come up, there's no reason for anyone to know.

But as soon as there is someone specific in the picture, it's no longer just about me. It's also about them. It's about their feelings of being my dirty little secret. It's about them not being able to express their love at the dinner table because it will make my family feel funny. It's about them listening to how much my mom loves my husband and how glad she is that I found someone like him, and how that makes the other guy feel treated like chopped liver.

I feel like there are various levels of being out. I have stated clearly that I am polyamorous in my Facebook info section. But, I generally don't push it on people. And, I've found that most people don't discover it on their own but it's right there for all friends to see.

How do you know they don't discover it on their own? They may see it and not feel comfortable mentioning it. Not talking to you about it doesn't mean they didn't see it.

I personally believe that by coming out, you're essentially saying "this isn't normal, which is why I have to explain it to you in some big talk."

It depends whether you make a big deal out of coming out, or just mention it casually. I have a friend who is as out as they come, but she never goes up to new coworkers and say "Hi, my name is Alice and I'm polyamorous. Welcome to the office!" ... but she will casually mention her boyfriend John in one conversation, and her boyfriend Frank in another, as casually as a mono person mentions the summer vacation they went on with their wife. Then people have the natural mono reaction: "I thought your boyfriend's name was John?" To which she casually replies, "oh, that's my other boyfriend" and then just watches the wheels turn behind their eyes. She's an open book, answers any questions anyone has about the situation, confirms that yes, they all know about each other. But she never makes a big deal about it or treats it like something which isn't normal.

As the pizza guy said, if you make a big deal out of it, so will others. If you treat it like it's normal, people will realize it's no big deal. Just like when kids fall. Some moms freak out, which freaks out the kid, so the kid starts crying. But some moms just go "whoopsies, let's pick you up" and the kid gets up and runs along.


* Names have been changed to protect the innocent. Let me know if you find any?

 

[zylya]

It depends whether you make a big deal out of coming out, or just mention it casually.

I would say that if you're mentioning it casually then it's not "coming out." To me, coming out implies the big "I am..." speech. Acknowledging your poly in regular conversations isn't coming out, it's just being out, IMO.

 

[AnnabelMore]

I would say that if you're mentioning it casually then it's not "coming out." To me, coming out implies the big "I am..." speech. Acknowledging your poly in regular conversations isn't coming out, it's just being out, IMO.

Someone who's choosing to keep their poly (nature or relationships) in the closet would not causally mention two different loving relationships for what they are in the same conversation. If you're in the closet at some point you have to choose to come out. A big speech is one way, casually talking about it in conversation if/when it comes up is another. Both can be equally terrifying if you haven't done it before. As long as we're using the in/out dichotomy as our basis of discussion, then, I would say that being casually out counts as having "come out."

 

[OpenandCountry]

The only problem with being casually out (at least in my area) is that no one here knows what poly is. I had a lot easier time telling people that I was bi, because they knew what it was and it didn't need a long explanation.

I think people fear what they don't know, and poly is such a small movement/community that isn't really covered by the media.People just don't know that much about it, if anything at all. So if I tell people that I have a boyfriend and a husband, they assume that I am cheating on my husband, and that leads to a long discussion to clarify that everything that I'm doing is consensual, which leads to a Question/answer session...I needed about 5 minutes to come out as bisexual, with little inquiry into my personal philosophy, but I need about 20 minutes to come out as polyamorous, and a willingness to allow people to dive deeper into my life than a casual acquaintance should.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Good point, Open. I'm lucky in that I live in a major urban area, so when I choose to be casually out (which is not all the time, making the "are you in or out question" not so easy to answer) it's usually not so bad. If I get a quizzical look or a question when I mention my gf and her husband I can just say "They're in an open marriage" and people generally get it, same for the fact that I have a bf and a gf, "open relationship" is usually enough.

With my parents, I had no choice but to do a non-casual coming out thing if I wanted to be honest with them about what was going on in my life. I've always told them about my relationships, so at 6 months into my relationship with Gia I felt like I should tell them about this new, important person in my life. If they then wanted to know about her (which of course they would) there was no way to just "causally" mention her husband and her pregnancy without leading into the exact same conversation we would have had if I'd just led with that fact, so I decided to put it out there right at the beginning. I guess I could have just not mentioned those things at all, but then if/when they met her they would have felt deceived by me.

My mom began to ask a question about who sleeps with whom at one point and I cut her off saying "I don't want to get too personal" which I'm really proud of, actually. Everyone who has questions seems to want to ask that, so I had a feeling that they would, and just...soooo none of their business.

 

[cagedbutterfly]

I am open and honest with my family and friends about being poly.
I have quite often told strangers about my situation simply because I don't care what they think. I've recieved acceptance, and judgement in varying degree's.

I work with my partner, and have just moved to be with him and coming out would not be a really smart move in terms of our relationships with people at work.

We obviously have a very close bond and relationships and at times I act like his girlfriend (because I am) but generally we try and keep our relationship on the DL at work.

My partners girlfriend is known as his girlfriend in the work place and to most of his family. It is extremly hard for me to accept at times that we can't be out about it, and also that a lot of people make assumptions about our relationship.

I would love to just say "He loves W, he loves me. We are together and we plan on staying together" But its truely not at option. I'd love to say I don't care what other people think, but its simply not true.

 

[RfromRMC]

Coming back from an absence so I haven't read the whole thread but I've had this discussion with my friends recently:

J was very upset that N & A would take him to social events with their friends and introduce him to everyone as their "friend". Multiple times.

N is very uncomfortable about being open about this. He gets very nervous talking to me about poly in public at all...as if strangers in a bar or cafe are gonna start throwing bricks at us that very moment.

Anyways, I told N point blank that I understand if we're talking family or coworkers. That's one thing. But he and his husband, A, have got to stop calling J just a friend all the time. There's no reason why they can't introduce him to their closest friends as their boyfriend. It hurts J quite obviously...makes him feel unimportant and tossed aside.
If your friends ostracize you because of who you love, they were never a good friend to begin with.
I think he got the point and are making steps towards improvement.

 

[Tonberry]

So if I tell people that I have a boyfriend and a husband, they assume that I am cheating on my husband, and that leads to a long discussion to clarify that everything that I'm doing is consensual, which leads to a Question/answer session...

I don't think it has to. You can talk about your boyfriend, have someone go "I thought you were married?" and just say "my husband is fine with it". End of story, you explained that it's consensual and if they have questions you don't want to answer, you don't have to answer them.

But I prefer answering questions. When people don't ask questions it's because they assume, and usually they assume wrong.

 

[buttons]

I know this is an old thread but I haven't seen any more recent ones to comment on... sorry if this has been discussed already but there are a LOT of threads on here!

What no one seemed to comment on was how the person being introduced as 'friend' might feel... I think it's one hundred percent every person's choice to be closeted or not. But in mono, straight or gay, poly, whatever relationships, the partner that is not being acknowledged as a lover is guaranteed to feel, I don't know... unworthy? Unwanted? Unloved? Like the person is ashamed of them?

I'm in a young poly relationship. All of my friends know that we are poly and that he is my primary. Some of his friends know that we're open and dating. I still get introduced as 'friend'. I hate it. I fully understand it, because we are not out to most people. And introducing me as gf would certainly put a damper on his chances with any new girl he might be interested in. I don't approach every person I meet with "Hi, I'm poly" either, but I reveal it very quickly because I don't want to give any other person the impression that I am available to a monogamous relationship.

So how much do you compromise? No matter how secure you are in the fact that your partner loves you, feeling like they are not proud of your relationship hurts. It's hard to go from passionate declarations and gestures of love in private, to being a 'friend' in public.

Maybe this is just an emotional thing that fades with time?

 

[BrigidsDaughter]

My boyfriend and I have an agreement; we will always be friends first. He was and is my best friend, so introducing me as his friend or vice versa doesn't bother me in the least. Yes, it can be hard to have to sneak in kisses and touches when our friends who don't know aren't around (say I go into the kitchen to get snacks for game night and he will come and get a soda and rake his nails down my back), but we make up for it after game is over and those friends go home. Though we don't really use the terms boyfriend and girlfriend with each other anyway.