left out of the NRE

You let them bait you back in without proving that a thing was going to change. Words are just words. Show me what you are talking about me and show me that you mean it. You are not helpless. You are just letting two inconsiderate people walk all over you like a welcome mat in front of the door. Your needs are not unreasonable, unfair, and they certainly do not deserve to be tossed to the side. You need to just leave. Go stay with your parents for awhile. You walked back into an unhealthy and effed up situation of your own accord. Leave for good and cut off communication so that you can find footing on your own with no influence. I realise you may love him, and there are things he loves about you, but he is not treating you like he loves YOU. He loves the things you do. As long as you allow them to keep walking all over you, they will do it.
 
I know it is scary, but it is better to be alone and treat yourself well than to be with somebody who only wants you for what you can do for them or because they think you look good. At the end of the day, you have to treat yourself well and know that you deserve better than this. This is not love. Love is not being immune to causing somebody pain and continuing to do it. Love is not you having to leave your home because he is more concerned with getting a piece of ass than caring for the mother of hiatus unborn child. You returned and nothing has changed. You can live without him. Even if you don't leave for yourself. Leave for your children. You all deserve better than a man in name answer a part-time daddy.
 
I would say the needs of a healthy trio trumps ANY of the individual people needs. You are not wrong to want a break. You JUST got back. You see again that there is no follow through on simple requests. No sex for 2 days.

You are struggling with many things. Where is this guilt for having needs coming from? I suspect you are in Stage 1 or 2. Maybe your are in the "ping pong place" of stage 3 where you struggle and don't want to lose/leave what you have but want the UGH to stop already. Please think about seeking local support. What you have there is poor treatment of you.

NO. You are not unreasonable to want some chill out time.
NO. You being made to feel guilty like your needs are "demanding" or "controlling" when in fact they are reasonable and it is actually that they do not want to change behavior and follow through on promises. Remember there is a different between actuality and perceived reality. If you are confused because people are blowing smoke in your eyes over there, you can always post here for other input.

Polymath is only one of your problems. MANY of your mini relationships inside the bigger polyship are not cool, so it is felt across all the layers.

Here are your tiers of relationship, whether lover, spouse, meta, whatever.

SOLO

you <---> you (how you relate to yourself. You are not longer a footloose single or even a married lady. You are a trio person. What you do affects others.)

G <---> G This is weak. He does not understand / care what he does affects others in his trio

H <---> H This is weak. He does not understand / care what she does affects others in her trio

SINGLES
You ---> G (You communicate to G and he receives your message.)
You ---> H

G ----> You This is weak. Says one thing, does another.
G ---> H (caution. Who knows what stories he tells her that could be affecting you. )


H ---> you (seems to try, but not solid. Says one thing but does another -- at her will or at her "got smoothie talked by G who knows or cares -- outcome is still the same for you. Hurtness.)
H ---> G (who knows)

DOUBLES

You <----> (G + H) (To save space, communication arrow going both directions. You talk. They hear, but do not follow through. But your talking is ok. )
H <----> (You + G) (Mixed messages.)
G <-----> (You + H) (Bossy, controlling)

TRIPLES

You + G + H working as a team. This is weak. Not all players understand that the needs of the healthy triad trump all individual needs.

GHOST LAYERS

How you want to be should this break up. H and then the (you + G) marrieds? All single? Something else? This is weak because it has no plan.


I would not rush to try to repair or solve any of those tiers of relationship.

I would sit back and reflect on their words and actions. Words spoken vs actions done. They seem to consistantly break words and carry out actions to suit themselves. This is not a healthy polyship dynamic if your wants, needs, and limits get thrown under the bus.

I know contemplating changes and a new way of life are scary, unknown, and daunting. But if you choose to go to your parents and rebuild a life on your own, I have faith that you can do it.

Here's the advice to friends and family of a person in stage 2:

  • Help the woman talk through costs and benefits of the relationship – now and in the future
  • Discuss her fears of leaving, e.g. lack of resources – money, accommodation, social support, not wanting to be alone, shame, feelings of failure
  • Ask for her views of danger to her, her children, to others – whether she stays or leaves (Remember there is an increased chance of a woman being murdered after she leaves a man who has a history of being controlling)
  • Affirm that what she is experiencing is abusive and that she does not deserve it, nor is she to blame
  • Ask her for all the ways she (and her children) are being affected – psychologically, ability to function at work, ability to pursue dreams
  • Help her make a safety plan
  • Respect her decisions

Is any of that stuff you want to be thinking/talking about? Do you need stage 1 things right now instead?

YOU are in charge of your life. You may not know where you want to go, but YOU are the captain of your own ship. You have worth, dignity, and value.

I note you did not answer me when I asked if G has made threats when he told you that your leaving is "a loaded gun you better put down." I am not sure if he has threatened to harm you, the kids, himself, H or whoever. You do not have to say anything you do not want to say, but I'm going to keep on treating you the same way I treat my own friends who have been through crazy abuse.

I hope you are safe where you are, and you have safe phone and Internet access so you can reach out to others.

I will keep on telling you that you have worth, dignity, and value and do NOT deserve poor treatment.

I will keep hoping for you and your kids and that you reach a safer space.

Namaste,
Galagirl
 
I would second that you are not helpless, you know my situation and how hard it can be sometimes, but I have family, I have friends that truly care and this is more meaningful to me than a bad relationship at the moment, we cannot afford to dwell on not having our ideal, we have to think of the ideal of a future where we are free to have those healthy relationships with others who truly care about our needs and welfare and not just their own.

((hugs))
Natja
 
Thanks Gala Girl. I am not being abused to those stages. I am not threatened with violence or isolated or controlled to that degree (i have been in the past, I know what it looks like). I am however in a partnership with a selfish and irresponsible person who is not respecting my feelings and need for emotional safety. He is making some effort in repairing the situation, the problem is that they are treating me as if I am a tyrannical force to be reckoned with instead of a partner in this thing. I mean there are a lot of problems, that is one.
 
I'm going to just be blunt, because the coddling isn't getting through to you.

If you keep repeating the same behaviour, you're going to keep getting the same results.

Your feelings are not wrong, but they are the inevitable outcome of remaining with these people. Only you have the power to stop having those feelings, and the only way to do that is to leave.

You keep believing words coming out of the mouths of people you know to be dishonest.

You keep believing that they will change, when they show no signs of even attempting to do so.

It's blatantly obvious that they're just saying what you want to hear, and you just keep believing it. It's their fault that they're inconsiderate of your needs. It's your fault that you expect them to meet your needs when they show every sign of doing the opposite.

I'm sorry to be harsh, but there comes a point in everyone's life where you made your bed, and you either lie in it or you make a new bed. You keep making your bed in this dysfunctional situation where you know your needs are not being respected. You keep putting your kids in this dysfunctional situation where their mother is at the bottom of the totem pole.

You either leave it or you accept it. They are not going to change. Stop expecting them to. It's not going to happen. They care about themselves, not you. They are selfish and inconsiderate. People do not become selfless and considerate without first realizing the problem is their own. They keep blaming you for everything that is happening, so they're never going to change what they perceive to be your problem. And it is your problem: this situation works fine for them, as long as you keep sulking back.

Yes, leaving is scary. But what's to be scared of? Something bad happening? So what's worse: MAYBE something bad will happen if I leave, or something bad will DEFINITELY keep happening if I stay?
 
Emotional or mental abuse feeling like choice is taken from you is abuse. They are now manipulating you trying to turn you into a victim by stating.that your a tyrant and their the victims.this stress has already put you and the baby at physical risk that to me is physical abuse albeit unintentional. I dont think they are monsters just selfish unrelentless people. Please take care of yourself and your babies first. Jmop
 
You're right. Though they are attempting to change SOME behaviours, they are still showing me a fundamental lack of respect. I keep expecting them to realize theyve been neglecting me or outright treating me poorly and while they took action to make me feel less neglected, they still refused to put their selfishness when it comes to sex on hold for my sake. I think you.may also be missing that I will be leaving two children behind here. two children who I have raised as my own for half their lives. G at least acknowledges I have a right to be upset about everything, including last night. Before this, our relationship was good, balanced. Our poly was good and balanced. I think its worth noting. It doesnt negate what happened but I want to get back to that place where we were good. where I was treated well, it was only a few months ago and for the past three years. H has left, she is going to stay somewhere else for a while. I don't know how long. Her stuff is still here. We will see. I know its frustrating to you all that I insist on staying. I can't really ask for advice anymore, you have all done enough. Thanks so much again. I truly appreciate it.
 
I'm so sorry you're hurting, and that your situation is just so ick.

I'm glad to hear she has left, I was going to suggest that. Why should you have to leave. I hope you get some peace and soon.
 
Thanks Gala Girl. I am not being abused to those stages. I am not threatened with violence or isolated or controlled to that degree (i have been in the past, I know what it looks like).
Click to expand...

I am glad you have eyes wide open and are guarding against abuse. You know your own situation best.

I am however in a partnership with a selfish and irresponsible person who is not respecting my feelings and need for emotional safety. He is making some effort in repairing the situation, the problem is that they are treating me as if I am a tyrannical force to be reckoned with instead of a partner in this thing. I mean there are a lot of problems, that is one.
Click to expand...

Whether or not G and H follow through on promises is on them -- they control their behavior. Some effort is not ALL the effort needed to be healthy.

You watch your own behavior. Be watchful of that in yourself -- accepting "less than healthy" just because it is "something is better than nothing." Guard against that and watch your soft feelings for them tempting you to accept less than loving/kind/considerate treatment. Be careful with yourself.

But if you need validation for you having your reasonable wants, needs, and limits respected? You got it. It is reasonable to want the things you want. You are not out of line to want a peaceful and harmonious polyship.

If they want to make it be like you are some "tyrannical force?" Fine. Be all "Yes. I am a tyrannical force that expects these things upheld. You are doing it/not doing it?"

You could point out when they try to distract from their own behaviors done/not done and try change the spotlight to some other thing (real or imagined) just so they do not have to be held accountable for their own behavior in this polyship. You could bring the spotlight right back into focus on their actions.

"The agreement is this. You chose this behavior. This does/does not keep the agreement."​

Just report the weather. No emotion. They either are choosing behavior that meets the standard or they choose behavior that does not. If they do not, you don't have to hang about waiting for them to get around to it. You honor your own limits of tolerance -- and set a reasonable limit for yourself to stick by. Maybe you pick 3 strikes you are out. Maybe 5. But you could pick where your limit is and honor your limit.

You deserve better treatment than poor treatment. Plain and simple.


I keep expecting them to realize they have been neglecting me or outright treating me poorly and while they took action to make me feel less neglected, they still refused to put their selfishness when it comes to sex on hold for my sake.
Click to expand...

Could note this behavior.
I think you.may also be missing that I will be leaving two children behind here. two children who I have raised as my own for half their lives.
Click to expand...

Yes. The other children being kept safe is a valid concern even if they are not your bio kids. In the marriage, did you adopt them and are you legally responsible for them? If you are not that person, a legal guardian to these children... could you alert their next of kin if it come to that? Would you take them with you temporarily? Where is your thinking on securing the safety of the children? Could you take them to their bio mom in emergency? Grandparents?

G at least acknowledges I have a right to be upset about everything, including last night.
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That's a start -- acknowledgement talking. So does it come with matching ACTIONS? In choosing his new behaviors, does he choose behaviors that ADD to your problems or takes AWAY from the problems on the table?
Before this, our relationship was good, balanced. Our poly was good and balanced. I think its worth noting. It doesnt negate what happened but I want to get back to that place where we were good. where I was treated well, it was only a few months ago and for the past three years.
Click to expand...

You are not there any more. That dynamic ended. Time only moves forward. You could create a NEW time of harmonious polyship with/without H involved, but that still requires behaviors from you and behaviors from G. And right now G behaviors are... what?

Could determine you limits and make a written plan for how you want/do not want to be treated. Do not sign up for more relationshipping here with these folks without knowing the what the expectations and what the standard of relationship is here. Do not sign up to participate in substandard care in relationship to G/polyship with G.
H has left, she is going to stay somewhere else for a while. I don't know how long. Her stuff is still here. We will see. I know its frustrating to you all that I insist on staying. I can't really ask for advice anymore, you have all done enough. Thanks so much again. I truly appreciate it.
Click to expand...

I am not frustrated. I am concerned, but I respect this is your life and you need to make the calls you need to make and are prepared to make at this time. You are the one who has to live this life so all I can do is see your struggle and read your posts. I do see you struggle. I do read your posts.

I see you.

Hang in there. Remember you have worth, dignity and value, and do NOT deserve poor treatment.

Galagirl
 
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I understand your need to keep your other babies. Why not make a blog here to vent in. That way you can have a way for you to be heard and watch where you are in relation to progress. I believe everyone supports you. Some times it is hard to read when you see people feeling but that is our or there problem. Please continue to post so your not feeling isolated with this.
 
Re (from purpleboots):
"When I talked to H the other day about them toning it down and using discretion I mentioned that I would like for them to take a break from having sex for a few days so I could regain some footing to get to a place where I could cope with that again."
Click to expand...

Doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

Re:
"Am I unreasonable in being pissed off that they just appeased me and waited til the first opportunity to have sex again?"
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If they told you they were going to give the sex a rest for a few days, and then broke their word, then well, they lied to you, and it's quite understandable for you to be pissed off about that. Although at the end of the day, you need to be able to approach these problems from a calm place from within, and focus on what you can do, because you can't depend on them to choose what you'd want them to do.

Re (from purpleboots):
"Am I being unfair in making my needs trump theirs? They feel like I am. Like I am dictating the terms of their relationship and that is unreasonable."
Click to expand...

That all sounds very black-and-white. Either you get what you want, or they get what they want, and there's no middle ground. If the situation can be fixed, I would think everyone involved would have to agree to give up some of the things they want, in order to get some of the other things they want. In other words, I don't think anyone can get *everything* they want, there has to be some compromising by all involved.

Re (from purpleboots):
"I know it's frustrating to you all that I insist on staying. I can't really ask for advice anymore, you have all done enough. Thanks so much again. I truly appreciate it."
Click to expand...

Just speaking for myself, I am still quite willing to offer you advice and support, regardless of whether you try to stick things out with G (and H?). Yes it seems like you should just leave him. But since I am not actually in your shoes, and I don't know all the details of your situation, I'll try to work with you, whatever you decide to do.
 
So H was going to leave and G convinced her to stay. He says I should try to talk to her. Frankly, I don't know what to say and she won't even make eye contact with me, leaves the room when I come in. We are managing to conceal the drama from the kids but things are tense, I'm sure they can sense it, especially the oldest. I don't think I owe her an apology. I'm tired of all this fighting and tension. Maybe I just need to ask her to leave and work on trying to repair my relationship with G. I am having a hard time seeing any other solution.
 
And you should talk to her because....? What do you owe her an apology for? For having needs and not being a mindless sheep? I would apologise, but my apology would be laced with sarcasm.

Children are very perceptive and sharper than we all think and wish to admit. They sense things even when you are trying your best to conceal it. If your children are like mine, they will start asking questions.

She needs to leave. It is your home, too, and that is where your children reside, so she should be the one to leave. Obviously, your S/O wants his PYT around for daily sex, but her presence and his blindness have caused madness in your home. Where is her family? They should be trying to talk her out of having a baby by somebody she barely knows who already has a little one on the way and three in the world already.
 
She needs to go now! G is being so selfish persuading her to stay when it is clear that they cannot keep their promises to you when they are together.

I am sorry pb, this situation just sucks :(
 
So H was going to leave and G convinced her to stay. He says I should try to talk to her.
Click to expand...

Frankly, I don't know what to say and she won't even make eye contact with me, leaves the room when I come in.
Click to expand...

Could say "Yes, I hear that you want me to talk to her. No, thank you. I am not willing at this time talk to her. This needs to happen first:

1) We find out if she is / is not actually pregnant.

  • If not pregnant, step 2.
  • If pregnant, I leave you two free to raise this new child because you made a life changing choice without consulting me and broke agreements. Each of you did. I cannot trust people like that.

2) If not pregnant, you both still did a bad. Trust STILL needs to be repaired. But I don't have to coparent some new kid so I might be willing to entertain a new polyship offer that takes my wants, needs, and limits into account. When you both are ready to present that to me I am willing to see the offer. That does not mean automatic YES I accept your offer. It means I am willing to read it. "

That previous offer you declined? It now has a side helping of another broken promise with the 1 AM sexing after you requested a time out.

They are digging themselves deeper.

So they are not in right relationship to YOU. You don't have to be chasing them down to make right. You did not break agreements. The onus is on them to make right and to present new offer.

Behavior done/not done, dude. Step up to the plate. They could show you the money. YKWIM?

You have already made suggestions and they do not follow through. You are tired. So... could choose to rest and not do anything. THEY can make the suggestions and worry about making a decent offer.

You could strive to keep it real over there. If they want to keep it nutty, you could choose to say "No, thanks. Not participating in this nutty. Back to the drawing board!"

Lather, rinse, repeat and just play the broken record til they step up to the plate and play like adults. Present you with more crazy? Back to the drawing board. Not acceptable.

If they ACTUALLY present you with something you might find suitable...

You may need to do conflict resolution for old stuff first and rebuild trust if this is even gonna fly.

Before entertaining or negotiating on any new offers.

Keep it super real over there. Don't kid yourself that your players there are suddenly Jedi players. They sound awfully Muppet Show right now to me. :(

Be careful with yourself. Be mindful that the children do know and watch. Is this polyship is all crazy -- could leave so the children don't learn to be this selfish way to THEIR future partners or accept this sort of treatment from their future partners.

Hang in there!

Galagirl
 
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Well the good news is, she's not pregnant. Having an early period/failure to implant. phew. Things are still quite tense. We had another talk where we rehashed the same issues but made a little headway. H is still frustrated with me about how intensely I reacted last night. She explained that sex is how she connects and bonds with G and it is hard for her to be denied that. Oh boo hoo. I can't see myself returning to having warm feelings for her. She is being selfish and unreasonable in refusing to acknowledge how they hurt me last night (which G has acknowledged) and instead being mad at my reaction and bringing everything back to how.I'm depriving her of sex with G.

Thanks for more wise words GG. The talk got tired.but I imagine we will pick it up again soon. You're right, its their turn to propose an arrangement. I am tired. I will ask for this tomorrow. The status quo remains, they have sex when appropriate and work on making sure my emotional needs in terms of inclusion and affection are met. We shall see.
 
Sure that's not implantation spotting? That's an actual period?

Here's your possible template for changing it from "the boohoo soap opera station" to back the land of actions done / not done.

"Are you saying you are not willing to do X? Could you tell me the action Y you ARE willing to do for Z amount of time to begin to demonstrate that I can trust you both again? So I can be free of mistrust?"​

Example:

H is still frustrated with me about how intensely I reacted last night. She explained that sex is how she connects and bonds with G and it is hard for her to be denied that.
Click to expand...

"I see that you are frustrated, H. I hear that you wish to be free to express your connection and bond to each other via sex. I hear that you do not like my suggested behavior for both of you to begin rebuilding trust with me to be "no sex for 48 hours."

I am willing to hear your suggestion for an actions taken to demonstrate to me that you have control of your own behaviors and will not be making oopsie babies or planning children you expect me to coparent without consulting me. What will your suggested behavior be then?

No sex for 24 hours, then only oral sex in the next 24 hours?
Only anal sex for 48 hours?
Only Hand jobs?
Long term planning for a vasectomy? IUD?
Getting Plan B to keep in the house?
A mix and match of the above?
Something else I have not suggested? I am willing to listen. What is your suggestion for trust building behavior? Make me an offer I can entertain that we can all agree on.

At this time to get the ball rolling, I am willing to pony up a 48 hours worth of trusting you. Pass that, I could be willing to do a week of trust next. Then grow it bigger over time. Please tell me what behavior are you both going to pony up here to get this ball rolling? I am willing to hear your suggested behavior that will demonstrate this to me:

We plan to do X for 48 hours in our sexual behavior to begin to show you that we CAN say we will do something, and ACTUALLY do it to earn back your trust in our ability to follow through on promises involving unprotected sex and family planning."​



The talk has to match the walk. Even your own. You say you want respect and accountability? Hold them accountable and spell it out -- you show respect to me by doing X. Done or not done?

If not matching and you can only go on one of them? Their talk or their walk? Believe the walk. Actions speak louder than words. Talk is cheap. You have seen enough cheap talk.

This is a LOW BAR here, dude. Just open mouths and state to purpleboots what it is you plan for your next behavior so you can be held accountable by purpleboots as to "yep... the behavior was done/not done as told to purpleboots." Then purpleboots can begin to believe in your Word again because you have become people who actually keep their Word. Talk and walk match.

Plain and simple.

Galagirl
 
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