Let's try this again....

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AJbear77

New member
I wrote my life story, basically, and when I went to post it, it said I was not logged in. I will try my best to break it down, because I don't have the energy to write that again.

- I am a gay female in a 9-year closed relationship with a bi female, "Dawn." We moved in right away and have been pretty much married ever since.
- When I was first exposed to swinging/open relationship/polyamory about 5 years ago (I know the differences, but was exposed to all at the same time), I was very threatened by it. I had a negative emotional response, and since I am very introspective, have been trying to understand why ever since.
- I have always been insecure in our relationship, thinking Dawn would meet a man and leave me for him, because she has been with a lot of men, been married, etc.
- We love each other immensely. Thinking of ever being apart causes us great pain.
- Still, we recently had a talk about the idea of an open relationship and Dawn did admit to missing men, not that she had to act on it. I have only been with one other female. It was a dysfunctional relationship. I always wondered what it would be like to be with another woman, because I was almost 23 when I met Dawn.
- I can't imagine sharing her with a man, as illogical as that sounds. Intellectually I see how this is wrong, emotionally is another story. I'm afraid that opening this can of worms was not a good idea.
- I don't know if I could share myself with another woman. The idea sounds nice, but like what I have read by Mono (of Redpepper and Mono), I feel the same. I think I am one of those that can only have deep emotions for one person at a time, and sex is only good for me if those deep emotions are present.
- How do either of us know if bringing someone else into our relationship will not destroy us? I am not keen on the risks of trial and error.
- I am sad that Dawn wants to be with a man. I feel like I can't compete with that. I am not intimidated by women. They just don't threaten me. Men do, for some reason. I am working on understanding that one now.

I read things like what Mono writes, and he sounds so loving and non-intimidating and non-threatening, and I think, well, if Dawn found someone like him, it might be okay. If it is someone who respects our life partnership, and can love and respect me as a person, that sounds nice. I think it would be hard to find, though. I will not say I do not foresee problems. There still could be. It is just that since we've had these conversations, I worry that Dawn will want this, and I don't know if I can handle it. I have been shaky and had an upset stomach since we have been talking about this since last week. I don't know what to do or think anymore... I just don't know.

Please go easy on me. I know there are a lot of atheists here, but I am spiritual, and going through a spiritual awakening, and have been for a few years, consciously. There is a tug-of-war going on between my ego and my higher self. I feel the internal battle. I'm trying to cut through fear, but it is really hard.
 
AJbear77 said:
But, then I read things like what Mono writes, and he sounds so loving and non-intimidating and non-threatening. If she found someone like him, it might be okay. If it is someone who respects our life partnership and can love and respect me as a person, that sounds nice.
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I need to clarify one thing here. The person I am now is completely understanding of Redpepper bringing a woman into her life. I simply can't provide the energy or physical intimacy a woman can, so it is easier for me to understand. As the person I am now, I cannot pretend that the concept of another "intimate" man coming into our relationship would not change it. It would.

I think she will be able to offer a good perspective on this, though.

Take care, and always do what keeps you healthy.
 
AJbear77 said:
But, then I read things like what Mono writes, and he sounds so loving and non-intimidating and non-threatening. I think if she found someone like him, it might be okay.
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Sorry, I misread this. I see it was sort of a compliment. :)
 
Something more I thought of: I guess I am trying to get to a point if we are monogamous because we WANT to be, which is the only thing that makes sense, or because of fear. Fear as it concerns ourselves, fear as it concerns the other.

I don't want to tell Dawn, "No, you can't do this." I don't want her to tell me, "No, you can't do that." Ya know? That is where I struggle the most, as I don't WANT her to fall in love with someone else. I want her to only feel overwhelming love for me, but I don't want her to feel that she has to force herself to only have feelings for me.

I can definitely say that polyamory does not come naturally to me, in that I can't see myself with just one person for the rest of my life. I can! I am not like some I read about where that C-word (comergence? I don't remember) just comes naturally, that it just makes sense that I love other people and want my partner to love other people. More power to you, if you do.

I could consider myself attracted to the idea of polyamory, as I did fall for someone while being with Dawn, but we had been very distant and had problems, so I can't honestly say I fell for this other female because I am able to love two people at once, and it wasn't because I was lonely and missing something. I told Dawn immediately when this woman and I acknowledged our feelings for each other. We never acted on them.
 
For me, honoring, respecting, and in fact holding the relationship of Redpepper and her husband above all else is a matter of loving both of them. This is my contribution to the strength of our V. I love both of them and their son in a way that is not selfish or possessive. Their growth and connection is internally more important than my own needs and wants in this. This isn't a sad thing. It is a profound sense of love I have never felt before.

Thanks for the compliment. Redpepper could have done better. Just a little bit of polyamorous feeling in me would have been nice. It sounds like you may have that.
 
Hi,

I am new to the world of polyamory too. I am currently dating someone with the intent on opening up our relationship to other loves. I understand how you feel. Every time Ouroboros mentioned this idea earlier it freaked me out. All the thoughts you posted ran through my head, as well.

If Dawn is not considering exploring this right now, just take some time to think about it for yourself. There is no need to force yourself to believe one thing or another. Just sit with it for a while and talk to her when you feel comfortable, or when you have questions.

Time and patience will probably reveal a lot to you both. There isn't really any need to rush, especially if you feel uncomfortable right now. But remember to keep an open mind, and try to develop your own independent thoughts about this. It is best if you come to an opinion or conclusion based on YOUR true feelings, not because of someone else, although they might open your eyes to begin with.

The goal, to me, anyhow, is to feel centered in my decision, and to be sure I am looking out for myself at all times.
 
Right now it is not a reality, but an idea, which means you (hopefully) have time to think about it, talk it over, and ask any questions you might have. Keep the conversations with Dawn open and honest. Let her know your thoughts and fears. It doesn't seem as if you need to come to a conclusion immediately, so give yourself time and relax.

I've had one true poly relationship since being married, and all these thoughts filled my head, as well, just as they fill my head again now, when considering seeking a new relationship in the future. (The first didn't work out.)

I do wonder what it is about men specifically that threatens you. As a bisexual woman married to a man, I can see why he isn't up for opening our relationship to another man. But a woman does not threaten him, as he could never provide for the same physical and emotional needs as a woman. I'd like to understand your reasons, should you figure those out. And maybe some of the men here can help calm those fears.
 
One thing that might help is something my husband has come to accept. I am the poly person in our relationship, although I haven't found another to make a V.

Love is not a zero-sum game, meaning, just because someone else is receiving love from your partner, doesn't mean you are loved any less. This is where the similarity to having more than one child come into play. Would you love child A any less when child B comes into your life? Did you love your partner any less when you found yourself falling for the other woman you mentioned?

And for most people, COMPERSION (that c-word :) ) takes time and effort, especially if you are not used to practicing polyamory. My husband is working on it for me. I know that if he ever chose to find another partner, I would have to work hard to have it for him, even though I am of the poly persuasion.

Whatever happens, talk about it, be honest and open. If you are uncomfortable, tell her, and most importantly, figure out why. Then you can ask yourself if it is a good reason, or a fear that can be attacked and destroyed. If you do choose to go and attempt a poly relationship, go SLOW.

Things to think about-- are you threatened by any male friends (platonic) that Dawn has? Why or why not? I am curious what it is about men that you find threatening.

Good luck. Keep thinking and questioning.
 
I don't know, XYZ123, but I would love to. I have narrowed it down to a couple of good ideas:

- I was barely ever around men, growing up, because of my mom's intimacy issues with them. I did not even meet my father until I was 15. But on the rare few occasions my mother was with a man, her attention turned from me to the man she was with, and I felt forgotten and abandoned. This was hard, as I was an only child, and the focus of my mom's attention, until a man entered the picture. This has just come into my mind in the past few days. Aha!
- My sole past girlfriend, my first love, left me for a man.
- I am a very attractive gay female. I appear feminine. No one ever suspects I am gay. I am very confident about who I am and what I am able to offer as a woman and a lover. No other woman threatens me about that. Not so with a man. I don't like the idea that a man can penetrate Dawn and I can't. This is WAY more intimacy than I am able to have...the ability to feel her on the inside. I don't want to share her in a way that I am not able to have her, if that makes sense. A man can do whatever I am able to do, although probably not as well. ;)

That is about all I have come up with, so far. I know I need to work on my unhealthy attitude towards men. I mean, they are fine, so long as they are not a threat to me concerning my near and dear. I am not a man-hater.
 
I feel for you. I really do. I remember being a lesbian, and the thought of some guy's penis in my woman made me repulsed and disgusted. Not to say you are, but there is no shame in that.

I also remember the trauma I put my wife of 5 years through when I came out as bi. She had very much the same reaction you are having, bless her dear dear soul. I still weep over that. I would gladly have her back as one of my partners but I am now committed to a life-long deep friendship with her that has been ongoing for 11 years now. She keeps me on my toes with her questions and blunt honesty about her feelings towards poly. She has never and will never understand it.

When we broke off the V consisting of her and my now husband, it was because I needed to follow my heart. I'd had many relationships with men. I had finally found a decent one. Now I have two primaries that are good good men. They do exist. I'm sure if your partner finds one she won't settle for anything but the best, especially considering her lesbian background. You may very well be surprised. Rest assured that there is a world of difference between male and female sex and intimacy. I, for one, have a lot of male intimacy in my life and still long for a woman, because of that difference. There is no way that she will be replacing you, as far as I am concerned. It sounds, if she is at all like me, that she wants to feel whole in her sexuality. This is a good thing. It could be tremendously rewarding for you, if you can muster up some compersion, and also... this is a big one, face your lesbian friends!

If you read some of my past posts you may find it useful. I have talked about this before, I think.
 
Redpepper, your first sentence was right on the money. I am glad you wrote that. I am glad you understand. You can just lay it all on the table. I have noticed your past posts and I was a little nervous of what your response would be. LOL

Yes, there is no better way to describe the thought of a penis in Dawn's vajayjay than completely yuck! I was thinking... I don't know if I could look at it the same. How would I be able to go down on her again after feeling so sick about it? I don't want to do something that is going to ruin our intimacy.

Yeah... this is a tough one. Good thing there are no potentials out there right now.
 
I'd hope she would use a condom! At the very least, you could rest assured it was only her you were tasting.

Sorry for the radical honesty over this one, folks, but seriously, safe sex should always be radically honest!

I can relate entirely to how you feel, though. I think any of us can, when we think of the first time we faced our partners heading out to be intimate with another. I know it pains Mono deeply to think of the possibility of my being penetrated by anyone other than the three of my men. It sounds silly, as there are already three, but really, it's the unknown he fears.

I remember my husband's first responses to my having been intimate with another man. It really helped that he knew him and had started a friendship with him beforehand. Very important to it feeling okay and acceptable.

I also remember the first time he was intimate with a woman he loved. I was extremely uncomfortable with the whole thing, because she saw no value in knowing me, or bothering to establish a relationship with me of any kind. I was sick to my stomach at the thought of his penis entering her and his mouth on her cunt. Blah! I still am, that it even happened under those circumstances.

Needless to say, the relationship ended because of her inability to reach any kind of depth beyond sex and because of her belief that it was not important to know me.

Now my husband is seeing someone else and has my blessing. This man is respectful of our relationship and of me. He values knowing me, which is important, as it has become a prerequisite to his being intimate with another.

The man actually came over to me at an event we were both at and thanked me for my being open to sharing my man with him. I told him I was glad to, because he is an amazing man, and deserves amazing people in his life. I was glad to share him with the right people. He is most definitely "Redpepper approved." (Manners and consideration for others are so important.)

Don't forget that you have the right to make some guidelines. I always say that success in poly is based on the comfort of the most fearful. If you are not comfortable, then it will not work.

You can also have veto power if you both agree to it. (I used it on my husband's last love.) You and Dawn could also find someone together for her. That way, you can be more in control of whom she reaches out to in pursuing another relationship.

All in good time, my friend. There is no rush, it seems, and for that I would be grateful. You are in a good position to make this your journey together, and that in itself is a gift. Some of us have it forced upon us.

One last thing-- perhaps talking about what Dawn misses about men, and whom she finds attractive, would be helpful at some point, when you can stomach it, of course. Baby steps.
 
redpepper said:
I know it pains Mono deeply to think of the possibility of my being penetrated by anyone other than the three of my men... the unknown is feared.
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I wasn't going to comment about this, because AJ and I share this opinion. "Pains deeply" is putting it mildly, and it's definitely not just about the penis penetrating you. It's not the unknown in this case, either, but that topic does not need to be discussed here.
 
Thanks

Redpepper, you have a lot of great insights. You come across as fiery, but in a good way. (Overall, not in the comments to me. I have felt pampered with those and it is much appreciated.)

Yes. Dawn and I were looking at this as a journey to take together. I wanted to put it on the table, as well, to alleviate some of my fear of her leaving me for a man, because then she would know (and I would know) that she could approach me if she had desires and feelings she felt she needed to explore.

We just had a conversation...again, while running errands. I told Dawn about what I had been talking about here. I had not told her about the difference I felt about a man penetrating her, because it was an intimacy we could not share, because thinking about my feelings in order to respond here was when I was able to pinpoint what it was about it. She understood my point. And yes, if this ever were to happen, it would have to be with a condom, for sure. No if, ands, or buts about it. That is showing utmost respect for one's own body and for one's primary partner.

Anyway, we know that we need to work more on us right now, because after 9 years, we are kinda in a rut. So we have made a decision to table this for now, work on us, and once we are where we want to be with each other again, discuss our views and feelings then. Even not having been poly before, I have enough foresight and logic to know that there will be problems if we are not getting all that we need from each other already. We can't use others to fill a void, or that is a disaster waiting to happen, and a major jealousy producing situation.

But I will stick around to read more and ask questions. The concept of more love is what intrigues me the most and makes it desirable. Like expanding a family. That is what I like most in the way Mono describes it. Ideally, I think if I could get over the sex part of it when it comes to her and a man, and we (I like the idea of us chosing together for that feeling of some input and control) find someone together that we can agree on and that I can see as a friend, it might be nice. Especially since I have not had many good men in my life. It would be nice for a man to love and respect me for me, not having anything to do with sex, because I don't want that. Baby baby baby steps.
 
Redpepper, am I to understand that you were with a woman partner, in a closed relationship for 5 years, as a lesbian, then came out as bi, then met your husband, and eventually left her, after starting a poly relationship during your relationship with her? :confused: Hmm... I must say that does NOT reassure me at all.

I have always known that my partner was bi. (Luckily this is not a complete shock.) However, she has always preferred women. I think she has forgotten that, since she has been with one for so long, but let's put it this way-- she has 3 tattoos. The tiniest one (on her ankle) was from her grieving a man. The largest one, which took 5 hours and takes up a big part of her back, was from a female. (The other I think was just for the hell of it. lol) Her problem before was always meeting women, and meeting the right ones. It was hard for her to meet them, but her desire was always stronger towards women. So I am lucky on that front.

As for me, people are always curious. Actually, I have been with a handful of men, and after I came out as gay at 17, funnily enough. I only slept with ones that were actually friends whom I cared about. It is just not my thing. I could have casual sex with them, but I never could with women, because that is where all my emotions lie-- the fireworks. But I don't like casual sex, and just don't prefer sex with men. I just wanted to put that out there for anyone who is thinking who knows what, because I have heard it ALL as to theories of why I am gay. It is not because I need the right man. It just IS.
 
I am sure you are "not reassured" by my having left my wife to be with my now husband. As I said earlier though, she was not able to let me be me, and in the end we both decided that it was not healthy for either of us. Also, as I said, I have mourned the loss of her ever since, and have shaped my love into a deep friendship now. I will always love her. She was here last night and I couldn't keep my eyes off her. Even when she asked me some really hard questions about Mono and my husband, and what I would do if I ever found myself loving one more than the other.

No, I am not the one who left. If she could find it in her heart to accept the way I am and be intimately close again, I would be in heaven! She is by far my ideal woman. It has made it really hard to search for another, I can tell you.
 
redpepper said:
Even when she asked me some really hard questions about Mono and my husband, and what I would do if I ever found myself loving one more than the other.

It has made it really hard to search for another, I can tell you.
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I would hope you always love your husband more. I'm quite comfortable in that. I've said before that I think he is the only one who has ever loved you more than me. He has strengths and understanding that I don't. I respect that and love him for it. That is why I feel we are all meant to share life together.

I'm sorry it is so hard for you, Love.

AJ, if she finds some one who holds your primary relationship sacred, as I do Redpepper's with her husband's, I believe you'll be fine, emotionally, at least.
 
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