Looking for advice

[Amusing Riot96]

This is a lot, so little judgement would be nice. I'm gonna be really open, and it's something I'm still learning to do with difficult situations.

That being said, about 1yr and a half ago, I got out of a 12-yr monogamous relationship that I was in since I was 15. I missed a lot of my young life and opportunities just to get physically abused, and I ended it. Shortly after, I got into my first non-monogamous relationship with a married couple. They were swingers.

I was, and still am new to it, but it ended up being a lot of drama between them, with many mistakes on their sides. I slowly realized I shouldn't have been there in the first place. I didn't realize it till it was too late. I fell in love with both, but ended up in a relationship with just the guy. So anyway, it ended in divorce, and there I was grieving a breakup and with the other partner. I'm still navigating through that for other reasons.

Anyway, fast forward, this man treats me so good. I truly love him. We're good for each other and our kids. The only problem, which I have voiced many times, is I got with both of them. It opened my eyes to a very new world I didn't know existed. It got me excited and thinking of all the love and connections I could have with more than one person.

Problem is, my partner just loves me. He says he wants to swing, but only if he sets it up and talks to them. I'm such a people person, it seems unfair. But I thought, ok, I can compromise. He's a lot more experienced than me in it, so I thought it would be a good way to explore this new side I've found.

Well, we haven't hooked up at all, not once. It feels discouraging, with the divorce and everything in between, and stress. My sex drive is waaay higher than his. Obviously, sex isn't the most important, and I feel guilty for wanting it more than him, but it's a stress reliever for me and not for him. But I was under the impression we'd be hooking up and whatnot after the separation.

Anyway, I miss loving more than one person. It felt good, freeing, like I wasn't or didn't have to try, but whatever happens happens, until it didn't. So I voiced that concern. It took awhile, honestly, till a friend asked me to hang out, and I had to say no, because they're a guy, and just so happens to be poly (has a wife etc.). It works for them.

Anyway, my partner right now loves just me. He doesn't want to love anyone else, and doesn't want my heart to belong to anyone else but him. But he says he feels bad because he's keeping me from my true self. Idk who that is. But he says he wants to just swing, without emotional attachment, and, of course, a no-kissing rule. I'm so new to this. I'm sitting here like, people don't kiss before having sex? What do I know?

I want to explore that side of me, but not at the expense of our breakup, because I really love us, how we support each other and help each other. I guess if you made it this far in my book here, I'm looking for advice. Different ways to explain what I'm wanting without making him sound like he's not good enough. He thinks that I don't love him enough and I'm not happy with him. I told him I'm just not happy that he's keeping me from exploring a side of myself that he helped open my eyes to. And now he's not comfortable with it, because he truly loves me and is afraid of losing me. Honestly, so much in between the lines that y'all don't know. But any insight, besides the obvious of me choosing exploring myself, or choosing him, and not holding resentment for it..

 

[Evie]

Please know that the following isn't written as judgement, and is meant kindly from a perspective with experience.

I strongly suspect he already understands what you want - there are likely no amount of words you can say to further explain things to him. You're not going to be able to be in a polycule with this man. He has good boundaries around that. And although he suggested you can swing together if he organises it, he's not organising it. His (in)actions are speaking volumes. This is not a partner with whom you can practice ethical non-monogamy. To continue to attempt to talk about it will just erode the foundations of your relationship.

What's left for you to decide is what you want most. This monogamous relationship, or the potential to be polyamorous without him. Because it reads like trying to be polyamorous with him would hurt him a lot.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Amusing Riot96,

It's obvious you and your partner love each other a lot, you both want to stick together no matter what. On the other hand, your partner doesn't want polyamory (relationships with feelings), and even swinging he insists he set it up and he isn't setting anything up. I suppose you could remind him that he said he would set something up, and ask why the delay. As for kissing, that is a thing in swinging, a lot of swingers refrain from kissing because it can stir up feelings and they don't want feelings, just casual sex. In polyamory we do kiss, however I can see that your partner doesn't want polyamory. He is obviously very fearful of losing you. In the meantime, you have to think about what you can live with and how. I hope Polyamory.com helps a little.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Amusing Riot96]

Please know that the following isn't written as judgement, and is meant kindly from a perspective with experience.

I strongly suspect he already understands what you want - there are likely no amount of words you can say to further explain things to him. You're not going to be able to be in a polycule with this man. He has good boundaries around that. And although he suggested you can swing together if he organises it, he's not organising it. His (in)actions are speaking volumes. This is not a partner with whom you can practice ethical non-monogamy. To continue to attempt to talk about it will just erode the foundations of your relationship.

What's left for you to decide is what you want most. This monogamous relationship, or the potential to be polyamorous without him. Because it reads like trying to be polyamorous with him would hurt him a lot.

Thank you for your insight. Any advice on how to not hold resentment, and grieve what will never be? I told him I choose us, but he's not happy with that, because he knows what I want, and just the topic being brought up convinces him he's not good enough. I told him that's my choice and sacrifice to make, and I don't get to hold that against him. I also explained that I don't want to swing or anything. I've never done anything with anyone else. He was the swinger, and he still wants to do that, but I told him if he wants us monogamous, then that's what we'll be.

 

[Amusing Riot96]

Hello Amusing Riot96,

It's obvious you and your partner love each other a lot, you both want to stick together no matter what. On the other hand, your partner doesn't want polyamory (relationships with feelings), and even swinging he insists he set it up and he isn't setting anything up. I suppose you could remind him that he said he would set something up, and ask why the delay. As for kissing, that is a thing in swinging, a lot of swingers refrain from kissing because it can stir up feelings and they don't want feelings, just casual sex. In polyamory we do kiss, however I can see that your partner doesn't want polyamory. He is obviously very fearful of losing you. In the meantime, you have to think about what you can live with and how. I hope Polyamory.com helps a little.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

I swear there's so much I don't know. This is so very hard mentally. We love each other a lot, that's for sure. But Idk how to not grieve what I haven't gotten to explore most of my life. Idk how to talk to people, women and men, without getting attached, whether sexual or not. I choose him because I couldn't live with choosing myself, but it's still hard to come to terms. I appreciate your advice very much.

 

[kdt26417]

Yeah, it's hard when you love someone so much. I hear you that you don't want to grieve something you'll never have, but the sad reality is that you have to grieve, and even when you get past that there's still going to be an empty place inside your heart. You are making a noble sacrifice for him, he should be grateful for that and have some faith in your loyalty to him. In the meantime, if it helps for you to learn more about polyamory, by all means do so, and this forum is a great starting point for that journey. Be aware that there are always going to be people you are attracted to, that's not even just a poly thing, monogamists have straying attractions as well. You just don't act on those attractions, is how that goes.

 

[Evie]

I second what Kevin wrote. You will have to grieve something somewhere along the line. Right now, it's the possibility of ENM.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you hurt.

I suggest you really do your soul searching on this. You wouldn't be posting if you were totally happy in this situation.

I'm going to lift this up:

I miss loving more than one person. It felt good, freeing, like I wasn't or didn't have to try. But whatever happens happens.

Aren't breakups part of "whatever happens, happens"? The good experience with this couple was had. Nobody can take your memories. But this triad is now over, since they are divorcing.

Just because the old triad deal ended, that doesn't mean you have to sign up automatically for monogamy with him. That's a whole new deal. He doesn't have to automatically sign up for an open poly V with you. That's also a whole new deal. You two have to have some heart-to-heart talks. But before you do that, you have to get clear in your own mind what YOU want next.

If this isn't panning out, don't bend yourself into pretzels to keep it going.

FWIW, I think this. If you were with the ex since HS, and this couple represents your 2nd and 3rd adult relationships, and you already broke up with one, it may be you're hesitating to break up again so soon, just because you do not have much experience with adult dating, breakups, advocating for yourself and your wants. You want a period of calm, and/or this guy is pulling at your heartstrings, because he doesn't want to be alone after a divorce. It could be a combo of other things too. It's been a lot in a short timeframe. It's ok to take time out to assess.

In case it helps you:

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.

www.scarleteen.com

Home

Healthy relationships for young adults can be confusing. Love is more than just the way you feel, and we're here to help.

www.loveisrespect.org

In case you wanted to talk to a counselor:

www.polyfriendly.org

SOMEONE has to be the first non-monogamous person you date. It doesn't mean it will automatically be deeply compatible or go forever. Love alone is not enough for deep compatibility. There has to be more than that -- other compatibilities, shared goals, shared values, etc.

I suggest you come to calm, grieve the more recent breakup, and then assess if this is worth continuing, or if you'd rather let it go too. Again... YOU get to decide what you want. Don't just go along with whatever he wants because you are uncertain or inexperienced. This is HOW you gain experience in thinking things out and making your own decisions for your own self-- by DOING. You aren't going to get better at thinking for yourself and making your own decisions if you give your power away to someone else to decide the things for you.

Choose your own self. You have to be able to say, "I love you a whole lot, but no, not even for you will I do stuff I don't really want, or things that hurt me. Asking me to ding my own well-being is asking too much."

My partner just loves me. He says he wants to swing, but only if he sets it up and talks to them. I'm such a people person, it seems unfair, but I thought ok, I can compromise. He's a lot more experienced than me in it, so I thought it would be a good way to explore this new side I've found.

Why do you agree to unfair things that you SEE are unfair?

Why do you just bend to someone that has more years' experience? So what? Someone can be doing swinging, polyamory, kink, whatever, for decades, and still be chaos left and right in their practice. "Time spent" does not automatically mean "Well skilled."

We haven't hooked up at all, not once. It feels discouraging, with the divorce and everything in between, and stress. My sex drive is waaay higher than his, Obviously, sex isn't the most important, and I feel guilty for wanting it more than him, but it's a stress reliever for me and not for him. But I was under the impression we'd be hooking up and whatnot after the separation.

And then... he is not delivering. This is where you get to say, "Well, it's been X months, and nothing. So I am making you aware that I'll be exploring on my own and doing my own set-ups. You do your set-ups on your side, at your pace. I do mine on my side, at my pace. That is fair."

Or you say, "This isn't working for me. I want to break up. I wish you well in your future connections," because you both want different things right now. So you could break up peacefully.

You already had the previous HS relationship where you didn't get to explore in your youth. In your late 20s, you are still young NOW. You admit you shouldn't have been there in the first place, with this now-divorcing couple, and you are basically letting someone else call YOUR shots because you think they "have more experience."

You are a newbie, and that's ok. But you are the expert in YOU and what you do and do not feel like doing. He promised some swinging experiences. He's not delivering. You wanted to explore polyamory. He's not up for that. So whatever love feelings there may be, ultimately it's not deeply compatible. I get the feelings might hard, but that doesn't make it any more compatible. It's ok to end it and move on. Sometimes the most loving thing to do is to let go.

I told him I choose us, but he's not happy with that, because he knows what I want. Just the topic being brought up convinces him he's not good enough,

Whatever self esteem stuff he has going on, that's an inside job. You can't fix it for him.

Breaking up is NORMAL in dating. Some connections pan out long term, and some do not. Nobody has to be the "bad guy" or "not good enough." It's the SITUATION. You're just not compatible.

If you wear a size 10 shoe and are offered a pair of 7s, they could be a perfectly good set of shoes. It could be your feet are also perfectly fine. But they won't go together well. It's the SITUATION. These things are not compatible together. You trying to wear too small shoes anyway is going to cause foot problems. Rather than just accepting from the start that it's not a match for you. Not compatible.

I told him that's my choice and sacrifice to make and I don't get to hold that against him,

"Wait and see" is a choice. If you pick that, at least set a time limit -- 6 more months, 9 months, something reasonable. It's NOT going to be 5 more years, 10 more years, right?

You do get to change your mind if over time you find that you no longer wish to continue with this choice. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do just to "prove" your love. Why do you think love requires "sacrifice" rather than simply being shared?

You don't have to hold anything against him, but you do reserve the right to CHANGE YOUR MIND LATER.

I also explained that I don't want to swing. I've never done anything with anyone else. He was the swinger, and he still wants to do that, but I told him if he wants us monogamous, then that's what we'll be.

So this is going to be a double standard. He gets to swing on his side, which is what he wants. But you don't get to poly-date on your side, which is what you want. Why would you sign up for a deal like that?

Or he wants monogamy, but you really wanted to explore, but you are going to give it up just to hang on to him.

Again... I REALLY suggest you really do your soul searching on this. You wouldn't be posting if you were totally happy in this situation.

Idk how to not grieve what I haven't gotten to explore most of my life. Idk how to talk to people without getting attached, whether sexual or not. I choose him because I couldn't live with choosing myself but it's still hard to come to terms.

You are going to grieve SOMETHING. Why would you give up exploring in the remainder of your youth? Why don't you choose yourself and your desire to explore what you want to explore?

You seem like you are giving up a lot for someone you've been dating less than 2 years, when it took a lot to leave the previous abusive situation. You deserve happy, healthy, relationships that actually DO meet your wants and needs, not just "making do" or "settling" when you barely got out of the gate.

Galagirl

 

[Amusing Riot96]

Goodness, this was an eye opener. I didn't even realize all of this. I've always given everything I can to people with disregard for my own. It's how I grew up. Doing otherwise when it hurts the person I love feels impossible and not worth it, just because I'm happy. I know how that sounds. It's pathetic and I need to change it.

But to him, poly, or anything similar, is like cheating. He explained it like, "I'm not trying to go out and have a whole 'nother relationship with someone when I'm with you." I just said we think of it in different ways. I'd rather meet someone and see where it goes, and just go with the flow, rather than letting someone else talk to people for me to swing with. I told him I couldn't guarantee no feelings would come up if we found someone to regularly swing with.

With him thinking it's cheating, it just makes me feel selfish for wanting something out of the "normal" like this. It makes it hard for me just to walk away when his perspective makes me feel like I'd be walking away to be with other people.

Less than 2 yrs isn't that much, but so much has settled since the divorce started, etc. We have kids and we share the same job.

We communicate pretty well. But as of right now, you're right, it seems I'm willing to give up everything for him. But when I told him I didn't want to swing, he said he's suppressed a lot for years and didn't want to give that up. That right there should tell me a lot. But idk, just feels selfish, I guess.

Anyway, you have no idea how much you replying all of that means to me and how much it's making me think. Thank you.

 

[GalaGirl]

Goodness, this was an eye opener. I didn't even realize all of this. I've always given everything I can to people with disregard for my own. It's how I grew up.

It sounds like you were taught to do self-neglect/shrink yourself, and tend to X instead. I wonder who it benefitted? Mom? Dad? Someone else? It wasn't benefitting you back then to do self-neglect. It doesn't benefit you now to do self-neglect. (You don't have to answer that here. Just think on it. Who taught you this behavior and how did they benefit from you believing it? Does this belief actually serve you well today? Or is it a self-limiting belief?)

Maybe it's ok to stop doing that, stop giving "everything." Taking care of your own basics is self-care. It's not "selfish." It's ok to save some time and energy and resources for just you. You don't give away all the dinner. You gotta eat, too. You don't give away all the clothes. You have to dress, too. You don't have to give away your bed and bedding. You need a place to rest, too.

Maybe you want to live your life more balanced?

Doing otherwise when it hurts the person I love feels impossible and not worth it just because I'm happy.

Are you saying your happiness has no value? You don't think it's worth being happy?

You are not responsible for other people's feelings. All breakups come with some sadness. But it's not like you are being an asshole TO the person. It's accepting that there's not enough in common. You're just not compatible.

I know how it sounds. It's pathetic and I need to change it,

I wonder why you call yourself mean things like "pathetic?" Do you notice you are like your own self-bully? Is that a habit from childhood, too? Who is that voice? Is it actually you, or a mean relative, or a teacher, or someone else that became your inner critic?

To him, poly or anything similar, is like cheating. He explained it like "I'm not trying to go out and have a whole 'nother relationship with someone when I'm with you." I just said we think of it in different ways.

That's fine. People can think in different ways.

I'd rather meet someone and see where it goes, and just go with the flow.

Then do that, even if it means breaking up with him. Breakups are part of "go with the flow."

I imagine both of you will be sad while healing from the breakup. But then BOTH of you get to move on and find more compatible people who DO think the same as each of you do.

• You get to find healthy poly people to date who actually want polyamory.
• He gets to find someone to date who wants to share romance with just him and swing on the side.

That doesn't sound bad to me. It actually sounds pretty good.

rather than letting someone else talk to people for me to swing.

So say, "No, thanks. I don't want you to set up swinging things for me. I don't want swinging. How you date other people on your side is your deal. How I date other people on my side is my deal."

That's fair.

With him thinking it's cheating, it just makes me feel selfish for wanting something out of the "normal" like this.

But WHOSE "normal?" You know you are on a polyamory board, right? Many of us here think practicing polyamory is just fine and totally "normal."

Life is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one life to live. How is it "selfish" to decide for your own self how you want to live yours? Other people get to pick how they want to live theirs. That's fair.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the word "normal," either. If someone goes home and kicks puppies and throws rocks at the neighbor's windows trying to break them, and that's their "normal," it might be their normal evening behavior, but I wouldn't call that HEALTHY.

It's hard for me just to walk away when his perspective makes me feel like I'd be walking away to be with other people.

You could change your mind on that. You'd be walking away because you are not compatible. You might even be single for a long time afterwards, if you choose to take a dating break. No other people at all. Maybe you'll decide to spend a few months on your own, working with a counselor to heal some stuff, before you try dating again.

If you want polyamorous dating, there is NOTHING wrong with breaking up with a person who doesn't want polyamory. That frees you both up to keep looking. Be polite about the break up, but don't drag it out. That helps nobody. Just a basic polite, "This isn't working for me. I'm breaking up. I wish you well in your future connections. I hope you find someone more compatible," is good enough.

I think it's more unkind to hang around taking up his 1 romantic sweetie spot when you know you aren't compatible and you aren't really the right one for what he wants -- 1 person to share romance with, and then some swinging on the side. You want to love more than 1 and you don't want any swinging. You also don't want someone else picking out your dates for you.

To me, it sounds like you see the writing on the wall, but are struggling with the stages of breakup grief and aren't at full acceptance yet. Maybe you in the "bargaining stage" trying to find a way to make it work ANYWAY.

Maybe this helps you.

https://www.csn.edu/sites/default/files/documents/caps-counseling-and-psychological-services/stages_of_grief_after_a_breakup_0.pdf

Less than 2 yrs isn't that much, but so much has settled since the divorce started, etc. We have kids and we share the same job. We communicate pretty well. But as of right now, you're right. It seems I'm willing to give up everything for him. But when I told him I didn't want to swing, he said he's suppressed a lot for years and didn't want to give that up.

You don't find that odd? He doesn't want to suppress himself anymore. But he wants YOU to suppress yourself, and what YOU want?

That right there should tell me a lot. But idk, just feels selfish, I guess.

You don't sound "selfish" to me. You sound very people-pleaser and too "selfless." Maybe this helps you reframe:

• Selfish = mememememe! I expect everyone to serve me, even if it means neglecting themselves.
• Self-full = I tend to my basics first so I can run from a full tank of gas rather than trying to run on empty. THEN I can think about gifting my help to others. But only if they make reasonable and rational requests. I don't have to do unreasonable or irrational things. And sometimes I need rest -- so I won't be gifting my time, energy, or resources then.
• Selfless = themthemthemthem! I self-abandon and neglect myself in service to others.

You have no idea how much you replying all of that means to me, and how much it's making me think.

Glad it helps you some.

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

Goodness, this was an eye opener. I didn't even realize all of this. I've always given everything I can to people with disregard for my own. It's how I grew up.

That says it right there. As a child, you were trained from birth to meet the needs of others, parents, siblings, other authority figures, and to actually neglect your own needs to do it.

My ex-husband was like this. He was raised in a devout fundamentalist Christian home, and the idea was "Jesus first, others next, and self last." Unfortunately, even after he'd long left the church, he still gave too much to others, neglecting his own self-care, need for rest, finances, etc. This was not healthy. Others often disrespected him for being too giving, and they took advantage of him. And he resented giving so much and not "feeling appreciated." He had very low self-esteem. It was really unhealthy.

He'd give and give to others, and resent it, and hold it in, until the top would finally blow and he'd flip into an angry rage. But he'd blame the selfishness of others, not seeing how he was feeding into the cycle.

(Just one of the reasons he's now my ex.)

Doing otherwise when it hurts the person I love feels impossible and not worth it, just because I'm happy. I know how that sounds. It's pathetic and I need to change it.

It's not pathetic, but it is unhealthy. It led to your former abuse. So you really need to get to the root of it and learn how to take care of your needs, stop the cycle, not repeat the pattern. It's like putting on your own oxygen mask on first, in a plane in trouble, before trying to help someone else.

To him, poly, or anything similar, is like cheating. He explained it like, "I'm not trying to go out and have a whole 'nother relationship with someone when I'm with you." I just said we think of it in different ways. I'd rather meet someone and see where it goes, and just go with the flow, rather than letting someone else talk to people for me to swing with. I told him I couldn't guarantee no feelings would come up if we found someone to regularly swing with.

Or worse. What if you found another MF couple, and he liked the woman, but you didn't like the guy, but felt required to fuck him so that your bf could fuck the woman? Horrible.

With him thinking it's cheating, it just makes me feel selfish for wanting something out of the "normal" like this. It makes it hard for me just to walk away when his perspective makes me feel like I'd be walking away to be with other people.

Ugh. "Normal"? Swinging isn't "normal" in our society either. Both swinging and polyamory are "alternative" ways to do adult relationships in our mono-culture. (Many mono people would rather cheat and lie than do ethical non-monogamy.) Personally, having been polyamorous my whole life, polyamory is my normal. Swinging wouldn't suit me. I can't do sex without love. I can't just use other's bodies that way.

Less than 2 yrs isn't that much, but so much has settled since the divorce started, etc. We have kids and we share the same job.

"We" have kids? You have your own kids from your former relationship, and so does he? Or have you and he actually had a bio child together already?

You don't need this incompatible man to help you raise your own kids. (Maybe your abusive ex has partial custody... I don't know.)

Working at the same place could be awkward after the breakup. Lots of people won't date coworkers for this reason. If you're in the same department, maybe you could transfer departments, or he could.

We communicate pretty well. But as of right now, you're right, it seems I'm willing to give up everything for him. But when I told him I didn't want to swing, he said he's suppressed a lot for years and didn't want to give that up. That right there should tell me a lot. But idk, just feels selfish, I guess.

Nope, not selfish of you, in the least. I feel really sad for those women who don't want to swing, but do it anyway, to "keep their man." They have sex with others that they do not find attractive, for their partner's or husband's pleasure. That is just dehumanizing and gross, in my opinion. Please don't do that.