My wife and I have been together 11 years. Last year she wanted to explore ENM. I had a pretty tough time of being okay with it, but I came around. She had a girlfriend and we all got along quite well. Now that her relationship ended, my wife keeps bringing up the prospect of her dating a guy. I can’t. In fact, the one and only “rule” I had was no guys. I have nothing against men, but the thought of sex with a man or her having sex with a man repulses me...a LOT! I am 100% sure I couldn’t handle it. I don’t know how to get this across to her. She doesn’t understand why I am so adverse to the whole thing. I don’t understand it either to be honest. I have nothing against guys, but the sex thing is not okay with me. In addition, girls won’t get you pregnant! But it is way deeper than that for me. I'm pretty much mono, or at least think I am. The verdict is still out. I have no issue if she wants to date a woman again, but this guy thing scares me for my relationship. Any advice?
Married lesbian with a Bi wife
- Thread starter Polygirl
- Start date
Could simply tell her the truth.
That this whole thing is a big stretch for you because you are basically monogamous. And you can try to deal with her dating women again. But her dating men is a deal breaker. If she wants to do that, then you both need to break up first. Then it's clean. She is FREE TO pursue guys how she wants. And you are FREE FROM poly stuff and having men for metamours like you want.
She doesn't have to understand WHY you feel this way to accept and respect that you DO feel this way. It simply repulses you! What more explanation is needed?
There is nothing wrong with you having some hard limits. A person just cannot be up for EVERYTHING in life.
Galagirl
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I know some lesbians feel this way. That they'd be repulsed to have sex with a woman who has recently (or ever) had a penis near or in her vagina. Some lesbians won't date bi girls at all. You however, have married one. Had she been with men before you met and dated/married? Or had she only been with women despite IDing as bi?
If she's really motivated to be with people of either/any gender now, your hard limit will prevent her from being true to herself. It's sad when we find out that someone we were compatible with for a time is not long-term compatible. I mean, 11 years IS long term, but it's not 30 years.
I'm pansexual myself, and I do feel bad for people who are entirely straight or entirely gay. It's so black and white. There's nothing wrong with it-- it's natural! But it is somewhat... constricting, I think.
If she's really motivated to be with people of either/any gender now, your hard limit will prevent her from being true to herself. It's sad when we find out that someone we were compatible with for a time is not long-term compatible. I mean, 11 years IS long term, but it's not 30 years.
I'm pansexual myself, and I do feel bad for people who are entirely straight or entirely gay. It's so black and white. There's nothing wrong with it-- it's natural! But it is somewhat... constricting, I think.
I don't quite think so. OPPs are tied to the patriarchal idea of a man owning a woman. This obviously does not.
Marcus
Well-known member
This is pretty common, really. Usually it's in the form of a man who is ok with his female partner having other female lovers, but no male lovers. It's the good old fashioned One Penis Policy.
Our feelings of insecurity aren't one size fits all, some things are likely to produce more feelings of anxiety than others. Sometimes people are more insecure about their partners being with one gender or another, people they know versus strangers, people who are married verses people who are single, etc. It might be worth looking at why you are more triggered by one gender over another, but in the end it's just insecurity which is being expressed as jealousy.
You can't get it across to her, as in you don't think she understands that you don't want her to have sex with other men?
I suspect she understands that you don't want her to sleep with men, she just doesn't agree with you. She doesn't have to agree with you, and good for her for not wanting to capitulate to your insecurity.
Instead of trying to restrict her behavior, I encourage you to investigate your feelings of insecurity. Discuss what's going on with someone you trust, work through your insecurity about your relationship with her, and why you have a hang-up about male sex but not female sex.
I don't know if it's insecurity, per se. We can ask Polygirl if she is "insecure" about penises, or just repulsed. I am not going to ask her why she is repulsed, because that could be an extremely personal question. Women in the patriarchy often go through a lot of trauma which can be very very hard to face. And often, even if we share our experiences with others, we are not believed, or we are shamed for our experiences of trauma, and our feelings about those experiences.
As a pansexual non-binary polyamorous woman, I would say I am more polyromantic towards women (as well as having sexual attraction to them), but less trusting of men (for various reasons) while still being sexually attracted to them. Therefore, my relationships with (cis straight) men are different from my relationships with women. I admit I feel more comfortable/relaxed around gay or bi/pan men, or transmen. And all of this is entirely cultural, based on the assumptions of the patriarchy, and based on my past traumas.
On the other hand, some lesbians just feel attracted to women only from the time they are first aware of gender differences, and say it seems to be biological, and not caused by any cultural/social experiences.
As a pansexual non-binary polyamorous woman, I would say I am more polyromantic towards women (as well as having sexual attraction to them), but less trusting of men (for various reasons) while still being sexually attracted to them. Therefore, my relationships with (cis straight) men are different from my relationships with women. I admit I feel more comfortable/relaxed around gay or bi/pan men, or transmen. And all of this is entirely cultural, based on the assumptions of the patriarchy, and based on my past traumas.
On the other hand, some lesbians just feel attracted to women only from the time they are first aware of gender differences, and say it seems to be biological, and not caused by any cultural/social experiences.
She had dated a guy in high school and had a few guys she hung out with in college. When we got married we were monogamous and it never occurred to me we wouldn't always be. I have been very flexible with the whole thing. This is just not something I think I can do.
We both love each other very much, and I want her to 'be true to herself', but I cannot wrap my brain around why having sex with a guy is so important when you can date any woman you want. It is very much a hard stop for me. I have told her this, and her answer is always we can leave it the way it is "for now". The 'for now' part is what worries me.
My wife is 14 years younger than I am which isn't really an issue other than I am older and I don't want to be crazy old and single. We have a very good relationship other than this one issue. Also, getting a divorce would be pretty difficult for us financially and emotionally, I think it would break me. But again, I can't control what she wants to do, but that I cannot deal with on any level.
I don't understand why you would think it is 'constricting'. You cannot make yourself be attracted to someone that you just are not. It's not constricting if it's something that makes you uncomfortable.
I understand what you are saying and I agree. But a woman isn't going to get you pregnant and quite frankly, I don't trust men in that way. I trust them greatly as friends, but not sexually. No, I wasn't abused or anything. This isn't something I think I will ever be able to get passed. I do know that it is MY issue. But, not everything is about her happiness. My happiness is just as important. I find it selfish. Yes, we all deserve to have what we want, but there are times when compromise and not concession is in order.
You've mentioned pregnancy twice; is that a large part of the issue? Pregnancy prevention isn't difficult.
You've also written that you don't trust men. Okay. But surely your wife is not looking for a total random hookup with an unknown man. You don't need to trust "men" but you would benefit from trusting your wife's judgement. Sheesh, as I write this I remember having the same conversation with my mother when I was a teenager. She was concerned as I starting dating, and I repeatedly pleaded with her to trust my choices of the people I was around, and therefore dated. And honestly, my instincts are pretty darn good. Is your wife mentally or socially limited that she is not good at picking friends and (female) lovers? Is this why you are concerned? That you need to protect her from her own choices?
You've also written that you don't trust men. Okay. But surely your wife is not looking for a total random hookup with an unknown man. You don't need to trust "men" but you would benefit from trusting your wife's judgement. Sheesh, as I write this I remember having the same conversation with my mother when I was a teenager. She was concerned as I starting dating, and I repeatedly pleaded with her to trust my choices of the people I was around, and therefore dated. And honestly, my instincts are pretty darn good. Is your wife mentally or socially limited that she is not good at picking friends and (female) lovers? Is this why you are concerned? That you need to protect her from her own choices?
Probably because men are different to women. I know that's stating the obvious, but for someone bi, or bi curious or heteroflexible, it's those differences that we want, deeply want, to enjoy. It's not about just the penis. It's the whole person. Skin, muscle, smell, energy, lips it's more different between gender than between individuals within a gender.
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So it seems that the two of you have hit a brick wall.
Having sex, or even romance with a man is just different, and it's something many women like. Men have (usually) harder muscles, penises, beards, more body hair, deeper voices, and they smell of testosterone, etc., etc. A bi woman would find these qualities attractive. Women are also desirable, of course, with their (usually) rounder, softer figures, smoother skin, and different sex organs (again, not all women have vaginas and not all men have penises).
Socially, culturally, there are more differences than purely physical ones.
I guess it's hard to put ourselves into each other's shoes sometimes.
I hear that you feel hurt. Her desires conflict with your own. But bi people desire both (or all) genders, and one gender does not substitute for another. I'm very sorry for your loss.
Even if it was was an OPP suggestion? The partner who doesn't want that limit can say "No, thanks." And just not do it.
Here, it is a No Penis thing. And she can see other women. So it isn't a One Vagina Policy. But the point is the same -- if she doesn't want that limit, she can say "No, thanks."
The problem is that she ISN'T saying that. She's saying "We can leave it for now." Which just kicks the can down the road and probbaly frustrates you. She's not going to reassure you that this is where it lies -- polyamory, but only with other women. So you can relax about it. It remains "up the air for who knows how long."
I guess you might be able to live with a "for now" so long as there's a date for "final decision" coming. So it is "up in the air until ___, and then we make the call one way or another."
Divorce is never FUN, and I can appreciate that it would be difficulty emotionally and financially. But doesn't it hurt already now? With this neither here nor there thing? I don't think you want to be in limbo about it forever.
So maybe the best thing to do is tell her how you feel about it, and try to set a "final decision" date? Cuz you might be willing to "wait and see" for a year, but you don't want to be putting your OWN happiness on hold for 5, 10, 15 years, right?
Because you don't want to end up crazy old and single. Like if this is destined to end, could decide so you can start planning to rebuild your life and maybe find a lesbian, monogamous partner who is a little more compatible for those later chapters of life.
As you say -- her happiness matters. But so does yours.
Galagirl
Here, it is a No Penis thing. And she can see other women. So it isn't a One Vagina Policy. But the point is the same -- if she doesn't want that limit, she can say "No, thanks."
The problem is that she ISN'T saying that. She's saying "We can leave it for now." Which just kicks the can down the road and probbaly frustrates you. She's not going to reassure you that this is where it lies -- polyamory, but only with other women. So you can relax about it. It remains "up the air for who knows how long."
I guess you might be able to live with a "for now" so long as there's a date for "final decision" coming. So it is "up in the air until ___, and then we make the call one way or another."
Divorce is never FUN, and I can appreciate that it would be difficulty emotionally and financially. But doesn't it hurt already now? With this neither here nor there thing? I don't think you want to be in limbo about it forever.
So maybe the best thing to do is tell her how you feel about it, and try to set a "final decision" date? Cuz you might be willing to "wait and see" for a year, but you don't want to be putting your OWN happiness on hold for 5, 10, 15 years, right?
Because you don't want to end up crazy old and single. Like if this is destined to end, could decide so you can start planning to rebuild your life and maybe find a lesbian, monogamous partner who is a little more compatible for those later chapters of life.
As you say -- her happiness matters. But so does yours.
Galagirl
Hello Polygirl,
It seems to me that what you're saying is, that nonmonogamy is very hard for you to accept, that you are already pushing yourself as hard as possible in order to accept it, and that your wife is unsatisfied with your best efforts and wants you to push even more so that she can date men, even when she knows this would be "everything plus one" for you. I am also hearing that divorce is not something you can stand/afford to do. So she seems determined to go ahead and date men no matter how you feel, and she is just going to do it at some unknown point in the future. When that point arrives, you are going to have to choose between two impossible alternatives: let her date men, or divorce her. This will be like a "Sophie's Choice" for you, but it's a choice that will be thrust upon you, as unthinkable as that is.
Based on all that, I guess your only real option right now is to figure out why you can't stand to have her date/be with men, then figure out how to explain that to her, and then of course somehow figure out how to convince her to give the guy thing up (for your sake). So far what we have is that you don't like how a man can impregnate a woman, and you don't trust him to do otherwise. But there must be more that repulses you about the idea of sex with men. Let me throw out an example. Suppose your wife wanted to date a particular man who had gotten a vasectomy. Would you be okay with that? I assume you would not, but why? It couldn't be the pregnancy issue, he would be physically unable to do that. Do you suspect that he would go and have his vasectomy reversed? or is there something else about him that bothers you?
In order to have the conversation with your wife that you need to have, you'll have to somehow unravel that mystery within yourself. You, at least, need to be able to articulate what it is about the thought of sex with men that repulses you. You say you don't have anything against guys personally per se ... but you seem to have something against them sexually? Am I wording that right? I mean yeah it's obvious if you're a lesbian, by definition that means you don't want to have sex with men. But now your wife has become very involved with your preference, and as she is not lesbian, she needs to be able to understand it in some other terms. I doubt it is comfortable for you to dig into yourself trying to uncover the microscopic mechanics behind something that should just be accepted as a natural part of you.
You have an arduous task on your hands. I don't envy you.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
It seems to me that what you're saying is, that nonmonogamy is very hard for you to accept, that you are already pushing yourself as hard as possible in order to accept it, and that your wife is unsatisfied with your best efforts and wants you to push even more so that she can date men, even when she knows this would be "everything plus one" for you. I am also hearing that divorce is not something you can stand/afford to do. So she seems determined to go ahead and date men no matter how you feel, and she is just going to do it at some unknown point in the future. When that point arrives, you are going to have to choose between two impossible alternatives: let her date men, or divorce her. This will be like a "Sophie's Choice" for you, but it's a choice that will be thrust upon you, as unthinkable as that is.
Based on all that, I guess your only real option right now is to figure out why you can't stand to have her date/be with men, then figure out how to explain that to her, and then of course somehow figure out how to convince her to give the guy thing up (for your sake). So far what we have is that you don't like how a man can impregnate a woman, and you don't trust him to do otherwise. But there must be more that repulses you about the idea of sex with men. Let me throw out an example. Suppose your wife wanted to date a particular man who had gotten a vasectomy. Would you be okay with that? I assume you would not, but why? It couldn't be the pregnancy issue, he would be physically unable to do that. Do you suspect that he would go and have his vasectomy reversed? or is there something else about him that bothers you?
In order to have the conversation with your wife that you need to have, you'll have to somehow unravel that mystery within yourself. You, at least, need to be able to articulate what it is about the thought of sex with men that repulses you. You say you don't have anything against guys personally per se ... but you seem to have something against them sexually? Am I wording that right? I mean yeah it's obvious if you're a lesbian, by definition that means you don't want to have sex with men. But now your wife has become very involved with your preference, and as she is not lesbian, she needs to be able to understand it in some other terms. I doubt it is comfortable for you to dig into yourself trying to uncover the microscopic mechanics behind something that should just be accepted as a natural part of you.
You have an arduous task on your hands. I don't envy you.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
Marcus
Well-known member
Everyone gets what they want when relationships exist in the un-forced overlap between two people. When relationships exist in areas that don't overlap, meaning they exist when there is a significant incompatibility, at least one person is not going to get what they want.
You may have already mentioned it, but what is the compromise you are proposing?
she shouldn't have gotten married to a lesbian and then changed the 'rules' 11 years in I guess. I just find it extremly repusivive and am concerned that I will not find my wife attractive if she sleeps with a guy. It's her body and her choice, I just don't think I would stick around if that's the case. We are kitchen table, and I don't want that at my kitchen table.
Again, I hear you feel very hurt.
What might help is a different perspective. I would frame it not as, "She shouldn't have gotten married to a lesbian and then changed the rules," to, "She grew and developed as a person, and got more in touch with who she actually is. What she is, is a bisexual person. And she would like to follow up on her attractions to men."
It hurts when long-term couples grow apart. But it's also hard to fight the inevitable conclusion that this does happen. Some couples try to ignore having changed as they mature, and try to put their relationship with a partner/spouse ahead of their personal health, well-being, identity, hopes, dreams, desires and needs. Our culture (even gay mono culture) rewards monogamy
But divorce is much more common now. People are living longer than ever. What may have been fulfilling at 20 or 30 may no longer suit us at 40, 50 or beyond.
So rather than believing your wife was lying to you when you first got married, and has now "changed the rules," maybe looking at it a different way will help. She's not rejecting you, as a valid lovable person. She just has to be true to herself. You wouldn't want her to pretend to be someone she isn't, just to stay with you, would you? Who wants to be married to someone living a lie?
Marcus
Well-known member
It is unreasonable to presume that a person will not change over time, regardless of what life-long commitments they may have made. Life changes, people change, and this is when everything is working correctly.
I'm glad that your partner has the courage to speak up about something that they want to explore, certainly given the combative response you've offered. Good for her.
Just like you are entitled to demand a no-hetero rule at your table, she is entitled to find a more tolerant table.
I get it. I'm just sick of it. It seem very one sided. I want this and I don't care how you feel about it attitude. I'm very flexable and understanding, but this one thing I will put my foot down on. It will be up to her if she is okay with it or not. Everyone has needs, I think this is more of an "I want". If it is a need, she will need to find someone else to be with, it won't be me.
