Men vs. Women and "poly"

Athena said:
I could see a universe in which, if casual sex never had serious consequences, at a certain stage of my life, I would have been much more open to experimentation (that is, no worries about disease, unwanted pregnancy, picking up gross stalker people, ruining chances at serious relationships or work opportunities etc.)
However, there is no action without a consequence, and I am very picky about who is in my life, so I have never really been about casual sex. But could I see it being perfectly fun in a world with vastly different attitudes, likely yes. I couldn't definitively say without being there.
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If there were no consequences to our sexual actions...I would have been such a slut...wait.....Nevermind. LOL
 
TL4everu2 said:
All very interesting points.

What irritates me, is that MOST (not all, but most) of the women I have dealt with, are sincere about their feelings, while MOST (not all) men that my wife and I have dealt with, have had one thing in mind....getting laid. They could care less about the relationship as long as they get laid. Then once they get the punnany, they are gone like a fart in the wind. Whereas the women we have dealt with, have tried to stick around for some time.
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I am dealing with this now. Every man I have met in the last few months, yes, every single one (around 8) have only wanted sex from me. They see "poly" and think A: I'm really just cheating on my bf and i'll screw them asap or B: I'm only poly because I can't get enough sex.

This drives me crazy.

I wonder if the fact that I am already attached to my bf makes the other men think that I am only good for one thing when it comes to them, and that's sex. They seem to think that it is not possible to have a normal relationship with more than one person at a time. Be it sexual or just good friends.

The double standard rule has also gotten in my way recently. My bf is still uncomfortable with me dating other men but he doesn't see it that way. He thinks that I just make bad choices because the few men I am attracted to are nothing like him. In his head that means they don't (shouldn't) exist in my life.
 
I'll take a bit of a dissenting view. I agree that it's not black and white, and that some people are disingenuous .

But I would offer, that as a male who supports the poly practices and is committed to them .... most guys don't have the level of emotional depth women expect them to have. I have seen many of my friends...poly and not....constantly get into relationship issues because the just don't "get it". Again, not all of us...but enough to make the mix even more complex.
 
I find this whole discussion very interesting. What I wonder is why we seem to think that just because we apply the label poly that the rules change? The majority of people, men and women, cannot be blindly trusted. If the majority of men you run across as a mono are pigs, why wouldn't it be true with poly? I see it like I see all relationships, slow and natural and steady is the way relationships should progress. Anything other is disingenuous and won't last. We always have to protect ourselves first and foremost from being taken advantage of. Unfortunately this is the way of the world.:(
 
I'm sensing a thread here...it keeps popping into my mind. I've noticed a this trend while browsing the forum, it shows up specifically with our polyboys who share their SO with other guys, they all seem to hate the image of SO and another guy being intimate. I hear the same complaint from my DH (we are still completely mono) when the topic of other guys come up. He has had to share me with countless other guys by way of my career. I am a stripper and I develop intimate relationships with repeat customers - minus the sex. He seems to handle it well. But the idea of sexual intercourse with another guy turns his bowels. I've seen this behavior multiple times with mono couples too, where it's not appropriate for the girl to discuss her old sexual conquests (e.i. ex-boyfriends) My best gf and I had a deep discussion about how random conversations of the many past partners she has had immediately culminates into an aggressive argument with her boyfriend. It's like he just can't handle the idea that she has had sex with someone besides him.

In defense of my earlier comment and to argue it further: I say unconditional love doesn't end when the romance does.
MonoVCPHG said:
I don't believe in unconditional love. I believe in unconditional concern for people, but not romantic love. That tie can be severed.
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To say romantic love and unconditional love are not compatible is to say oil and water don't mix. One can always exist with out the other; and at times they can even be found to exist together, unbound.
 
gwendolenthefair said:
Oh, and the one-penis policy? Any woman who puts up with it in her relationships should ask herself, "Why does my man think it's less serious, less threatening, doesn't "count," as much when I am with a woman as when I am with a man? Could he be sending me a message that women themselves just don't matter as much as men?"

The only reason, as I see it, to EVER adopt a one-penis policy is if the couple is trying to get pregnant and doesn't want any potential questions about paternity. Otherwise, it's a bunch of controlling, sexist BS.
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Amen, sister. The OPP devalues female and lesbian sexuality and IMO is a bad sign about how comfortable a partner is with poly.

What's to say my girlfriend isn't going to be more of a 'risk' than my boyfriend? She might be waaaaay better at oral sex, after all ;) :D
 
How did we get from "men are pigs" to salad dressing????

I don't believe that all men are pigs and are just out to get laid at all. There are a lot of good guys out there who genuinely care about other people and want to develop friendships. I think part of the problem comes from a lot of men growing up with the idea that if they don't try to become sexual with a woman right away that they will end up in the "just a friend" role.

I find internet dating sites to be a lot like the bar scene. It's really kind of hit and miss (more miss than hit). There are a lot of people of both genders on those sites who are just looking for NSA sex but who probably wouldn't object to something more developing. I prefer to meet people in real life rather than on the internet. I prefer for connections to happen organically rather than with the shopping mentality of dating sites.

When people go on dating sites they generally have an end result in mind when they are going to meet a new person. When they meet that person if it isn't instant romance or instant sex the meeting can be perceived as failure. The no pressure meeting in real life allows people to be who they are and to relate to each other in a natural way.
 
I met my husband at a bar. Bars are more "real" than dating services, IMO. I didn't go to that bar with the intention of "meeting someone" though. I was there to see a local band and so was he. Neither one of us was there to try to "hook up" or "get laid", although that's what ended up happening.

I must admit (and you guys can hate me for this all you want) that I see dating services as a kind of "last resort" for people who can't find anyone in "real life".
 
The sad truth of the matter is that there's no advantage to NOT being a pig. Women have as much to blame for this as men. Aggressive pigishness in men plain works more than it fails. We should be talking about the reality that we co-create - not that men are simply this way or women are always that way.

I definitely see myself as not a pig. However, I seem to have as much trouble finding women as women seem to have finding the non-pig male. Does this make any sense? Shouldn't I be in high demand? The only sense that I can make out of that problem is that most women say they want one thing but actually respond to another thing that more directly aligns to our gender stereotypes and expectations. Alternatively, the women who say they want the "non pig" male are as few in number as the non pig male.

I believe that ultimately our well worn behavioral patterns are what get in the way here - norms, if you will indulge me. Men will do what's successful. The pig'ish behavior you're decrying is an effective means to an end. I would argue that it's also mostly effective for women as well - even if the desired ends are different.

Pig'ish men can only be common with "pig'sh friendly" women.

In my experience, it is far easier to act sterotypically and then surprise a woman with the desire for a deeper longer lasting connection than it is to be upfront about that need/desire and act accordingly every step of the way.

Unfortunately for me, I vastly prefer the non-stereotypical route in the hope that I find someone(s) who responds to me - in all my fullness.
 
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I know what you mean about piggish men. I have a zero tolerance for them. I wish men would not perpetuate the stereo type of piggish men get the girl cause it just isn't true. They might get some pussy and they might get some cock, but they don't get quality and the joy that comes from a connection... sure it is rare, but is available and when a person is engaged in piggish behaviour they miss the doors that open completely.

Finding numb connections with others means that is all that is drawn to you. I fully believe that have experienced that. Have you seen my post on whole hearted people in my blog? it talks more of this idea. to have joy we must be willing to engage, rather than be numb.

Mindfulagony, please don't settle. You are worth more than that and seem to want more than a shallow, surface, looking good from the outside connections and depth.
 
TL4everu2 said:
Ok, it has been my and my wife's observation that MOST men view polyamory differently than most women.

SINGLE men (in our experience) are pigs. They get on poly sites or CLAIM to be poly, simply to get laid. They figure that since a woman's "poly", she's easy. (So not true) Once they get what the woman has, they move on to the next conquest. Leaving the woman a mess afterward.

Single women who are poly or at least open to it, on the other hand, are hard to find in the poly world.

Now, I've even noticed this in MARRIED men also. They claim to be "poly", but what they are REALLY saying, is that it's ok to have a 3-sum with two women, but no men are allowed to touch their mate. To me, thats not poly. Thats selfish. If their mate finds another man attractive or mentally stimulating, the guy freaks.
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These are valid fears many women encounter. Is a married poly woman who is dedicated to her mono husband considered as easy or a slut for having thoughts of dating/sleeping with other men and/or women? Is it wrong to flirt and be flirted with?

I have found that most single men don't agree with taking it to the next level with a married woman. Flirting is okay, but nothing more than that. Those are my observations.
 
NeonKaos said:
I met my husband at a bar. Bars are more "real" than dating services, IMO. I didn't go to that bar with the intention of "meeting someone" though. I was there to see a local band and so was he. Neither one of us was there to try to "hook up" or "get laid", although that's what ended up happening.

I must admit (and you guys can hate me for this all you want) that I see dating services as a kind of "last resort" for people who can't find anyone in "real life".
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Well, I'm 55 and I don't do the bar scene, actually never did much of that even in college or twenties.

My jobs (paid and volunteer) have a dearth of available men.

I tried meetup.com, but don't want to spend hours hanging out with boring mainstream people in the hopes that one cool one comes along someday.

I could go to poly munches, I have gone to a couple in Boston, but that's 20 miles away. Okc is just so much easier for me! Yeah, I guess it was a last resort and I am just a loser! :p
 
Magdlyn said:
Well, I'm 55 and I don't do the bar scene, actually never did much of that even in college or twenties.

My jobs (paid and volunteer) have a dearth of available men.

I tried meetup.com, but don't want to spend hours hanging out with boring mainstream people in the hopes that one cool one comes along someday.

I could go to poly munches, I have gone to a couple in Boston, but that's 20 miles away. Okc is just so much easier for me! Yeah, I guess it was a last resort and I am just a loser! :p
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just for the record, I don't "do" the "bar scene" either, but there was a local band playing there that night so that's why I was there. Which makes it even more noteworthy that I met my husband at that particular venue because we both hung out at the same coffee shops and were friends with the entire same group of people and we never met during all that time.
 
HAHAHA oh boy, had to laugh.

Thanks for all the generalizations, they rocked.

Men are pigs eh ? Well, I`ve not ever had a man be able to talk me into casual sex. I guess that might taint my perception ? I figure people can hope and wish for whatever they want. If I don`t want it, it isn`t happening. :) When I think about it, of the people that do 'try', it`s been 50/50 between some hopeful men, and the woman from a M/F couple thinking she can get my guard down, and they will get themselves a playmate to screw.

As for my husband ??

Well, he`s had a hard time finding a woman that doesn`t just want to fuck him. He`s trying to learn about poly, and instead, kept getting offers for casual sex. Even with enjoying casual sex, he preferred a friends first scenario, and a few dates. Instead, he had girls who ' can`t take him serious, because he is married'.

I speak in the past tense, as he started a friendship/ romantic interest a few months ago, with a woman who is beyond delightful, and poly herself. Yay.

Like any form of dating your going to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your `charmings.

Polyamory is not a priviledged artform. There is an asshole in every crowd. Usually plenty of them, too. ;)
 
well done...

Well done sour girl! I enjoyed your comments and find them to be both true and entertaining. Thanks for the thoughts!
 
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