Mono-Poly, will it ever get better?

[Evie]

How long did your transition take? And are there still very clear "mono bumps", or just regular bumps?

I don't really remember how long until it was just what we do. How we are. Under 2 years I suppose. There definitely aren't any "mono bumps" (which were actually poly bumps as we both discovered small things that triggered the other when we were both in other relationships) anymore. There are regular bumps, but they are more about cohabiting issues than polyamory.

so we will have to see where his deep-rooted fear comes from.

Humans think they are unique, but they aren't. Loss of love is the nigh on universal root fear.

 

[delphine]

As a lot of people have mentioned before that only you can do what is best for you, and wait out how Villiers will come out of the other side when he is done with his full inner work. Would Villiers ever be up for a conversation with Mendel on how he has evolved? Maybe just a phone call to explain himself?

Myself was in a situation quite similar like this, but I was in Mendel's position. The person I was seeing told me they were fully done with the transition while it not being the case and basically tripping over their own proverbial delusional feet, even having said doing a lot of groundwork and therapy. I couldn't trust the situation and HIM like Mendel, until I had clear evidence that they were solid.

Hi Skadi,
How did your person win your trust back? I'm a bit torn on how I left things and really want to make it work again.
I think Villiers would be willing to speak with Mendel when he is maybe more emotionally secure. Did that work for you and your person?

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry this is dragging on. It sounds rough.

I don't know if this will help you any in your reflection...

Sometimes I feel Villiers was just ok with the ENM/FWB and will never truly be ok with polyamory, which breaks my heart.

Have you ever asked him this point blank in a counseling session? "Villiers, sometimes I think that you are only ok with ENM/FWB, and will never be truly ok with polyamory, and you just don't want to say that out loud to me. Is that true? Is ENM/FWB as far as you care to go?"

Kind of feel floating somewhere in between, while I know I don't have to be. So 5 years is not long enough for a transition?

To me anything less than a "joyful yes" is a "working no." This isn't five weeks or five months, it's FIVE YEARS.

I get that he's doing therapy and reading things, but if you are ready to move on and start dating, even to get back together with Mendel, you can say YOU are ready. It's been enough time and you want to move it along. Maybe it's time for you to say that to yourself and out loud to Villiers. It's been 5 years. You'd like to move on because this is starting to feel like foot dragging.

There are many articles here:

Practical Polyamory

Information on relationship skills, education and activism information related to the practice of polyamory; polyamory media resource.

web.archive.org

Have you seen this one?

Wayback Machine

Villiers isn't foot dragging or putting it off on purpose, right? Like, "Wait til I'm done working on it" and then he's avoiding, procrastinating or reading the whole internet, so he's forever "working on it" but never actually DONE done. Because that way it stays how he wants it: with you NOT poly dating.

Maybe it's time to consider a trial separation. You or Villiers move out to a flat. You continue to coparent. But then each one of you dates/doesn't date as you please. Continue the counseling. Perhaps that time apart will make things clearer and stop this "on the fence" thing.

And the counseling can become clearer in purpose also.

• To help transition to a poly model and remain married while polydating in a healthy way
• Or to help transition to a healthy, divorced coparenting model.

You really can't make Villiers or Mendel feel secure if the problem is something they have on the inside and it's stuff only they themselves can address.

You CAN ask for more information from Villiers as to what behaviors he'd like you to start/stop doing to help him, and if these behaviors would be short-term, medium-term or permanent.

You CAN be a person of your word, behave consistently, not overshare or be a sloppy hinge, and give each relationship its own time, space, and care.

What you can give/do is either going to be enough for each partner, or not.

Mendel is divorced, with an empty nest (two kids in college). He's poly and seeing someone, mostly LDR, and fine with any kind of configuration, but not entirely sure he wants to invest in something that had to end so abruptly. So now am not sure how to make him feel secure in seeing me again.

Well, it is his choice. He doesn't HAVE to want to date you again.

You can be honest with him: "Mendel, I cannot guarantee we'd pan out on a 2nd attempt. I can respect it if you just don't have it in you for a 2nd try. All I can say is I'd be up for a 2nd try and would like it very much. I'm not gonna break up with you again just because Villiers asks or feels bad. We've been in therapy. We've both read _____. Work has been done and continues to be done.

If I break up with you, it's going to be because *I* have to break up, because *I* am not feeling it any more. And I'm willing to do it in the way you like best, if reasonable and rational, so it's not another abrupt ending. I regret how I handled things last time. I bungled it. I'm sorry. I'd like to do better. What IS the way you'd like best? In person? Phone? Email?"

You probably could talk about how you and Villiers could break up decently also. Nobody wants to break up, but it is best to talk it out and have an emergency plan settled than to not talk at all, and then the crisis comes, and there is a NEW big ol' stress.

In case this helps you assess:

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.

www.scarleteen.com

Because there's that possibility too.

YOU are just done with the trying, and done waiting, and done trying to do this WITH Villiers. You'd rather accept that (me polydating with Villiers in my poly network) is just not gonna happen, so you'd rather make the final call and end it decently. And then you get to move on to (me polydating on my own) so you no longer have to consider Villiers. He's not your romantic partner anymore, so what he likes/doesn't like no longer applies to how you want to pursue your future polydating.

Maybe you want to have some individual sessions with your counselor and kick that idea around.

He is being mono because that what wants, needs and feels like is right for him right now. We closed because we wanted to focus on us, our businesses and the kids, and eventually open up again when the kids were older.

How MUCH older: until the youngest starts high school? Graduates HS? "Older" would be too vague to me when it's already been 5 years.

If he needs one more year... well, did 5. What's 6? But if he's asking for a lot more, you can't let 5 years become 10, 15, 50 years, right? You can make the call YOURSELF. Either give up the idea of poly and stick with Villiers. Or move on without Villiers.

You decide when to get off the fence. You can't keep fence-sitting forever. You only get the one life to live. It's not a dress rehearsal.

Galagirl

 

[Skadi]

Hi Skadi,
How did your person win your trust back? I'm a bit torn on how I left things and really want to make it work again.
I think Villiers would be willing to speak with Mendel when he is maybe more emotionally secure. Did that work for you and your person?

He didn't get my trust back. He did reach out several times, but was unwilling to show me his situation had evolved. You only get so far with just words. I'm reading you really want to make it work, so it would be helpful if Villiers could make more of an effort in the communication department. If there are no results in X time, you might want to reconsider to continue this dynamic as it is going now. You sound quite done.

 

[delphine]

No, we tried full-on poly for about 10 months (late 1999-mid 2000). He found a gf. I considered myself poly, but I didn't have time to seek partners because I was homeschooling our three kids (who were still pretty young at the time), and had many other pans on the fire, a big house to take care of, gardens, a lot of animals, my volunteer and paid work, etc. My ex didn't handle his NRE well. He became unavailable for the children, stopped doing things around the house, stopped doing car maintenance, and just wanted to go see her, or call her or email her. I was worried about losing him as a coparent, and needed more help with everything family related. He just wanted to go on all these romantic dates with her (not with me) and I felt really used and taken for granted. So, I told him I couldn't handle it. We did have a veto agreement. I felt bad to use it but I was spiraling into depression. However, when I told him I didn't want him to keep dating her, but they could remain friends on a lesser scale, he lost interest in me for many years, fell out of love with me, all kinds of horror ensued.

As time went on, I realized they were still spending hours calling and emailing each other, and were fully in love, even though seeing each other much less, and not having sex. I realized he was mono and couldn't love both me and her. I was truly displaced.

I had only read the one book on poly available back then, The Ethical Slut. He refused to even read that. We were unable to rebuild our connection. I honestly tried everything. His gf lived 300 miles away, a 5 hour drive, and in the beginning he wanted to spend a 3 day weekend with her every month. He ended up missing some of our kids' milestones while he was swept up in NRE. We did much counseling, couple and individual, and I really tried TOO hard to fix things. I finally gave up in 2008. I wish I hadn't wasted so much time, but I had my reasons.

The simple answer is, some ENM people are fine with the sex, but not the emotional connection. (Say, swingers.) And some people are fine with emotional connections, but not the sex. (Of course, many mono people wouldn't want their spouses to have deep emotional connections OR sex with the gender to which they are attracted.)

As long as he is working towards becoming more secure, then I guess you could give him more time. But how long? One more year? And then he'll either just have to handle his new place in your life, or leave you if he can't stand it? Move on and be happier single or with someone else, down the road?

I was terrified to break up with my ex because he was making a LOT more money than me. We had this big house, animals, etc. It was very difficult to imagine starting over in a small flat. That's partly why I waited until 2 of our 3 kids were 18+ and could start to support themselves, get different lodging, go away to college, so that I could work full time, and have time to date, and get my own place, etc., etc. Eventually we divorced and I got a good settlement, so it was okay. And I blossomed so much as a person! I ended up with partners who did appreciate me and understood where I was in my life... My ex and I met so young and we'd grown apart. I don't regret anything though. Our relationship didn't fail. It was all part of my life's journey.

I'm sorry you went through all that. Seems like a lot of dependency when starting out so young together. And being totally displaced like that is so disrespectful, but you dealt with the information you had at the time. Your ex not respecting you enough willing to do any work and building as a partner speaks volumes.

Villiers and I still connect, even when I was in NRE with Mendel. I made sure we were connecting, but at one point he blew up and couldn't deal with it. I will schedule some weekends to connect for us and on trying to make Villier more mentally and emotionally secure.

I'd say I will watch his behaviour for the next couple of months. He was open to talk to Mendel and explain his side, when he reaches that point. If that doesn't work, we have to figure out something else.

I understand that you were afraid to start all over again with the kids. We met in college as well. The spark is still here, and do really well as a team. But maybe he is afraid of losing a teammate and of seeing another side of me that is very unknown to him as a teammate, that he usually always knew how to anticipate on. I will have a word with him about this. I'm not fully ready to give up on him yet.

 

[delphine]

I cannot speak for him but I had a LOT of sayings in my head from society about relationships. ”if they truly love you they won’t desire anyone else” “if I desire others it must mean he’s not the one or the love isn’t true” ”having strong feelings for one might make you feel less for another” “in romantic relationships there has to be a number 1 and what if I’m booted from that position as most important thing in their life?”

in my case I was the one exploring poly and wanted it but these things spun in my head really hard. It wasn’t until I actually did it and saw first hand that none of that is true, that I relaxed. I now have 2 life partners, (both are my top priority. I like to think of my hierarchy as orbits. Anyone has the potential to get to the top tier without displacing others from that position. Multiple primary, if you will.) one I live with and one I don’t, And Another partner I see less frequently. I make it a point to be very present when I’m with my partners and show them that no matter what, they have my full love and attention. I made a rule for myself when starting out and that rule was to not let feelings I have about any relationship effect other relationships. I can be full on in NRE but I’ll keep it in check when with other partners to show them they are important to me And I love them. If I cannot be fully present with each of my partners then I reevaluate my time, emotions, or whatever is getting in the way and make a change to fix it.

this might not help Villers but it might be another perspective for you to see.

Hi Bobbi,
Thank you for the explanation, and it could be the issue yes. We have been quite the team for the last decade, even sharing first spot with someone else like that might feel scary to him in the end, he was very supportive in the beginning and excepting of Mendel. Encouraging and thinking with me for his bday plans for example. But after a few months he just couldn't deal, even though him and I were connecting on regular basis.
And I'm present when I'm with my partners, I'm not off somewhere else with my head and the people in front of me deserve my full attention. Maybe I have to doublecheck my NRE, but I'd like to think I have a good grip on it.

 

[GalaGirl]

Just some things I noticed in reading... in case it helps you reflect.

I'd say I will watch his behaviour for the next couple of months, he was open to talk to Mendel and explain his side when he reaches that point.

Just because Villiers becomes willing to explain to Mendel what his issues were last time, why on earth would Mendel care or want to hear it? Mendel might be willing to be "basic polite" to his metamour Villiers, but deep diving into Villiers emotional/mental state and struggles-- what for? Is Mendel even the right person for this job, or is that a job for a counselor?

We met in college as well, the spark is still here, and do really well as a team, but maybe afraid of losing a team mate and seeing another side of me that is very unknown to him as a teammate that he usually always knew how to anticipate on.

Was it APPROPRIATE team stuff, at the times for team stuff? Or was it Villiers or you wanting to team up all the time, even when not appropriate?

Does your whole baseball team have to come help you pee/take a shower, or just SOMETIMES behave as a team, when playing baseball together? And then other times after the game, people disband and go home to their spouses, kids, day jobs, gardens, knitting, etc., go do their other stuff. Everyone pees and showers by themselves, at home AND in the locker room after a game.

When people meet in the late teens and 20s -- those are the formative years. If Villiers never really did any of adult life on his own, you were always there as his helper, did he get to grow up, finish becoming his own person? Or did he just swap relying on his parents for relying on you?

If he thinks his only value to you is "Villiers, my team mate" he's going to have a LOT of anxiety about you doing stuff on your own, doing stuff on his own, his identity APART from "Villiers the teammate, Villiers who is Delphine's spouse."

Some people subsume themselves so much into a relationship they don't even remember who THEY themselves are outside of the relationship. Is that going on here, for either you or Villiers?

he was very supportive in the beginning and excepting of Mendel. Encouraging and thinking with me for his bday plans for example. But after a few months he just couldn't deal, even though him and I were connecting on regular basis.

Why is this needed? You could figure out bday things for Mendel on your own without Villiers.

Why was Villiers all up in your other relationship?
Fear of being left behind?
FOMO?
Thinking "fake it til I make it?"
Trying to please you because you wanted it, even if not really appropriate?
Something else?

(You dating Mendel) is not a team sport or group project for you and Villiers.

If you allowed this and then most or all your time with Villiers was (Villiers listening to you go on and on about Mendel) that gets old and off putting. Because (Villiers + you time as a romantic couple) is about (Villiers + you time as a romantic couple). Is that getting shortchanged? It's not (Villiers' + your time as coparents), doing chores, running a business, or any of the other facets of a nested life.

If there was too much Mendel in (you + Villiers time) and then too much Villiers in (you + Mendel time) you might want to reflect on your hinge skills. Keep one side of the V separate from the other side of the V so each partner feels seen, loved, and appreciated for themselves.

It is possible Mendel is not excited for poly with you because how much you let Villiers stuff leak onto (You + Mendel) last time. The same the other way, it is possible Villiers is not excited for poly with you because how much you let Mendel stuff leak on to (You + Villiers) last time.

Usually it's a mix of things in a situation. Think about "the stuff."

• How much stuff is your stuff and only your stuff? Your responsibility?
• How much stuff is Villiers stuff and only Villiers stuff? Villiers responsibility?
• How much stuff is Mendel stuff and only Mendel stuff? Mendel responsibility?
• How much stuff is "our shared responsibility? And WHICH "our?"
  • (You + Villiers) stuff
  • (You + Mendel) stuff
  • (Mendel+ Villiers) stuff as basic polite metas to each other? They don't have to be pals, but at least basic polite if they bump into each other somehow, right?

There's a lot to balance.

But after a few months he just couldn't deal, even though him and I were connecting on regular basis.
And I'm present when I'm with my partners, I'm not off somewhere else with my head and the people in front of me deserve my full attention.

On your end you were being present, giving Villiers your full attention on your regular dates with Villers. But was Villiers connecting BACK, or was he all up in his thoughts and feelings and "not really here," so what you thought was connecting both ways wasn't really connecting? It can be VERY hard to remain interested and present if you are on a date with some weird ghost, where their body is there, but the brain is off somewhere else.

Could any of that be happening?

Galagirl

 

[delphine]

I'm sorry this is dragging on. It sounds rough.

I don't know if this will help you any in your reflection...



Have you ever asked him this point blank in a counseling session? "Villiers, sometimes I think that you are only ok with ENM/FWB, and will never be truly ok with polyamory, and you just don't want to say that out loud to me. Is that true? Is ENM/FWB as far as you care to go?"



To me anything less than a "joyful yes" is a "working no." This isn't five weeks or five months, it's FIVE YEARS.

I get that he's doing therapy and reading things, but if you are ready to move on and start dating, even to get back together with Mendel, you can say YOU are ready. It's been enough time and you want to move it along. Maybe it's time for you to say that to yourself and out loud to Villiers. It's been 5 years. You'd like to move on because this is starting to feel like foot dragging.

There are many articles here:

Practical Polyamory

Information on relationship skills, education and activism information related to the practice of polyamory; polyamory media resource.

web.archive.org

Have you seen this one?

Wayback Machine

Villiers isn't foot dragging or putting it off on purpose, right? Like, "Wait til I'm done working on it" and then he's avoiding, procrastinating or reading the whole internet, so he's forever "working on it" but never actually DONE done. Because that way it stays how he wants it: with you NOT poly dating.

Maybe it's time to consider a trial separation. You or Villiers move out to a flat. You continue to coparent. But then each one of you dates/doesn't date as you please. Continue the counseling. Perhaps that time apart will make things clearer and stop this "on the fence" thing.

And the counseling can become clearer in purpose also.

• To help transition to a poly model and remain married while polydating in a healthy way
• Or to help transition to a healthy, divorced coparenting model.

You really can't make Villiers or Mendel feel secure if the problem is something they have on the inside and it's stuff only they themselves can address.

You CAN ask for more information from Villiers as to what behaviors he'd like you to start/stop doing to help him, and if these behaviors would be short-term, medium-term or permanent.

You CAN be a person of your word, behave consistently, not overshare or be a sloppy hinge, and give each relationship its own time, space, and care.

What you can give/do is either going to be enough for each partner, or not.




Well, it is his choice. He doesn't HAVE to want to date you again.

You can be honest with him: "Mendel, I cannot guarantee we'd pan out on a 2nd attempt. I can respect it if you just don't have it in you for a 2nd try. All I can say is I'd be up for a 2nd try and would like it very much. I'm not gonna break up with you again just because Villiers asks or feels bad. We've been in therapy. We've both read _____. Work has been done and continues to be done.

If I break up with you, it's going to be because *I* have to break up, because *I* am not feeling it any more. And I'm willing to do it in the way you like best, if reasonable and rational, so it's not another abrupt ending. I regret how I handled things last time. I bungled it. I'm sorry. I'd like to do better. What IS the way you'd like best? In person? Phone? Email?"

You probably could talk about how you and Villiers could break up decently also. Nobody wants to break up, but it is best to talk it out and have an emergency plan settled than to not talk at all, and then the crisis comes, and there is a NEW big ol' stress.

In case this helps you assess:

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.

www.scarleteen.com

Because there's that possibility too.

YOU are just done with the trying, and done waiting, and done trying to do this WITH Villiers. You'd rather accept that (me polydating with Villiers in my poly network) is just not gonna happen, so you'd rather make the final call and end it decently. And then you get to move on to (me polydating on my own) so you no longer have to consider Villiers. He's not your romantic partner anymore, so what he likes/doesn't like no longer applies to how you want to pursue your future polydating.

Maybe you want to have some individual sessions with your counselor and kick that idea around.



How MUCH older: until the youngest starts high school? Graduates HS? "Older" would be too vague to me when it's already been 5 years.

If he needs one more year... well, did 5. What's 6? But if he's asking for a lot more, you can't let 5 years become 10, 15, 50 years, right? You can make the call YOURSELF. Either give up the idea of poly and stick with Villiers. Or move on without Villiers.

You decide when to get off the fence. You can't keep fence-sitting forever. You only get the one life to live. It's not a dress rehearsal.

Galagirl

Hi Galagirl,
Thank you for all the info and links! Yes, I asked him last year about it. Not in therapy, but just the two of us and said he was ok with it, but needs more time for it. Maybe it changed and will have to ask him again.

He's foot dragging in a way that's in the pace that's not to my liking. We have a poly talk at least once a week to see where we are at, then the additional counselor as well. But will talk with my own counselor and toss the idea around for a healthy exit if we might come to that decision.

Good idea. I will make a list for short, medium and permanent behaviour changes. Will discuss with Villier to do that as well.

The youngest is 5, and kids start to have their own life a bit when they're 7/8 years old with friends and other activities, so I think he would probably had something like that in mind. Can't speak for him, will ask him, but that would be too long for me when time of writing this.

Time for me to go off the fence indeed.

 

[delphine]

Just some things I noticed in reading... in case it helps you reflect.



Just because Villiers becomes willing to explain to Mendel what his issues were last time?

Why on earth would Mendel care? Or want to hear it?

Mendel might be willing to be "basic polite" to a meta Villiers but deep dives into Villiers emotional/mental state and struggles? What for? Is Mendel even the right person for this job or is that a job for a counselor?




And was it APPROPRIATE team stuff? At the times for team stuff? Or Villiers or you wanting to team all the time even when not appropriate?

Does your whole baseball team have to come help you pee/take a shower? Or SOMETIMES behave as a team playing baseball together? And then other times after the game, people disband and go home to their spouses, kids, day jobs, gardens, knitting, etc? Go do their other stuff? And everyone pees and showers by themselves? At home AND in the locker room after a game?

When people meet in the late teens and 20s -- those are formative years. If Villiers never really did any of adult life on his own? You were always there as his helper... did he get to grow up? Finish becoming his own person? Or just swapped relying on parents for relying on you?

If he thinks his only value to you is "Villiers, my team mate" he's going to have a LOT of anxiety about you doing stuff on your own, doing stuff on his own, his identity APART from "Villiers the teammate, Villiers who is Delphine's Spouse."

Some people subsume themselves so much to a relationship they don't even remember who THEY themselves are outside of the relationship.

Any of that going on here? For either you or Villiers?



Why is this needed? You could figure out bday things for Mendel on your own without Villiers.

Why was Villiers all up in your other relationship? Fear of being left behind? FOMO? Thinking "fake it til I make it?" Something else? Trying to please you because you wanted it? Even if not really appropriate?

(You dating Mendel) is not a team sport or group project for you and Villiers.

If you allowed this and then most or all your time with Villiers was (Villiers listening to you go on and on about Mendel) that gets old and off putting. Because (Villiers + you time as a romantic couple) is about (Villiers + you time as a romantic couple). Is that getting short changed? It's not (Villiers + you time as coparents). Or doing chores. Or running a business. Or any of the other facets of a nested life.

If there was too much Mendel in (you + Villiers) and then too much Villiers in (you + Mendel) you might want to reflect on your hinge skills.

Keeping one side of the V separate from the other side of the V so each partner feels seen, loved, and appreciated for their own selves.

It is possible Mendel is not excited for poly with you because how much you let Villiers stuff leak on to (You + Mendel) last time.

And same the other way.

It is possible Villiers is not excited for poly with you because how much you let Mendel stuff leak on to (You + Villiers) last time.

Usually it's a mix of things in a situation. Think about "the stuff."

• How much stuff is your stuff and only your stuff? Your responsibility?
• How much stuff is Villiers stuff and only Villiers stuff? Villiers responsibility?
• How much stuff is Mendel stuff and only Mendel stuff? Mendel responsibility?
• How much stuff is "our shared responsibility? And WHICH "our?"
  • (You + Villiers) stuff
  • (You + Mendel) stuff
  • (Mendel+ Villiers) stuff as basic polite metas to each other? They don't have to be pals, but at least basic polite if they bump into each other somehow, right?

There's a lot to balance.



On your end you were being present. Giving Villiers your full attention on your regular dates with Villers.

But was Villiers connecting BACK? Or all up in his thoughts and feelings and "not really here" so what you thought was connecting both ways wasn't really connecting?

It can be VERY hard to remain interested and present if you are on a date with some weird ghost. Like the body is there but the brain is off somewhere else.

Could any of that be happening?

Well, Mendel didn't trust Villiers feelings, so this way he could show Mendel and confirm. They have met before, and we still talk as friends and asks about him from time to time, so I don't think he would be opposed to idea at hearing him out for his own security and win back his trust again.

Maybe. Villiers and I have ENM ex-partners since before marriage in our friend group that we do nice things for, and Villier even "meddled" himself with Mendels birthday idea, so personally I wouldn't think it would be that big of a deal really. We do have weekly dates that are just about US, and it has always been like that, but maybe it wasn't enough. I do like to talk about my stuff with Villiers, it didn't stop us before, why now?
I will revise on "the stuff" and add it to the short + medium+ long-term list.

We are not that dependent on each other, we each have our own lives with our own businesses and interests. And actually most of my time with Mendel wasn't infringing on my time with Villier at all, just the time I would have spent on work, me or something else. It was a very limited experience with Mendel already, so if he is not willing to compromise on some time that I want to spend on something else and prefer to be with another partner instead, it's going to be a problem. He has his own time that will cut from family time too. Maybe it's me, but I don't see the problem.

We do connect intimately a lot, but not sure if he's thinking about something else. I'll have a word with him if that could be an issue.

 

[Bobbi]

. I do like to talk about my stuff with Villiers, it didn't stop us before, why now?

Maybe because before it was sex based and this is feelings based. He may find this way more threatening.

 

[GalaGirl]

Villiers and I have ENM ex-partners since before marriage in our friend group that we do nice things for, and Villiers even "meddled" himself with Mendel's birthday idea, so personally I wouldn't think it would be that big of a deal, really.

I do like to talk about my stuff with Villiers. It didn't stop us before, so why now?

ENM is not polyamory. "Exes and friends" aren't "plain exes" or "current partners."

It's like how you dress for a formal evening wedding is not how you dress for a day swimming at the beach. Each outfit and way of going is probably fine in context. Looking for champagne in a wedding guest outfit at the wedding bar is okay, and so is looking for hot dogs in a bikini at the beach hot dog cart. But BOTH outfits are gonna be pretty weird at the bank-- wrong context. The bank teller will go, "Huh? No champagne or hot dogs here. This is a BANK. Can I help you with BANK THINGS?"

Maybe both of you went in there thinking, "Oh, this is just like before," only to discover, "Nope. Not the same context." Or you were thinking, "I can handle things. Why can't he? We've always handled things before." Is any of that true?

We are not that dependent on each other, we each have our own lives with our own businesses and interests.

Yes, but how about emotionally independent, being able to experience big feelings and self soothe? People have complex layers sometimes.

It was a very limited experience with Mendel already, so if he is not willing to compromise on some time that I want to spend on something else and prefer to be with another partner instead, it's going to be a problem. He has his own time that will cut from family time too. Maybe it's me, but I don't see the problem.

No, it is not a problem for you on your end, but you aren't thinking about doing a poly V with you just in it, right? And you not seeing a problem doesn't mean there isn't one. The other participants also have to want it, and have all the skills for it to run smoothly. Villiers' initial WILLINGNESS to go there doesn't guarantee he has the skills and ability to execute, or the desire or ability to catch up and LEARN the skills. required.

Galagirl

 

[delphine]

ENM is not polyamory. "Exes and friends" aren't "plain exes" or "current partners."

Just like how you dress for a formal evening wedding is not how you dress for a day swimming at the beach. Each outfit and way of going is probably fine in context. Looking for champagne in a wedding guest outfit at the wedding bar is ok. So's looking for hot dogs in a bikini at the beach hot dog cart.

But BOTH outfits are gonna be pretty weird at the bank. Wrong context. The bank teller will go "Huh? No champagne or hot dogs here. This is a BANK. Can I help you with BANK THINGS?"

Maybe both of you went in there thinking "Oh, just like before" only to discover "Nope. Not the same context."

Or you were thinking "I can handle things. Why can't he? We've always handled things before."

Could any of that be true?



Yes. But how about emotionally independent? Being able to experience big feelings and self soothe?

People have complex layers sometimes.



No. It is not a problem for you on your end.

But you aren't thinking about doing a poly V with you just in it, right?

And your ability to not see a problem doesn't mean there isn't one.

The other participants have to also want it and have all the skills for it to run smoothly.

Because mere his initial WILLING to go there? Doesn't guarantee Villiers has the skills and ability to execute. Or that he has the desire or ability to catch it up and LEARN the skills required.

Galagirl

Yes, that's probably it. We are both quite capable people, just this poly bump somehow seems a bit alien to Villiers on the emotional front.

What do you mean with self sooth emotions? Self-regulation without any help or the dependency/validating kind? I guess when it's not about poly, he is ok with owning his own feelings.

 

[GalaGirl]

Yes. Self soothe on his own-- how he copes with experiencing strong emotions, how he deals with stress.

Like, if you are out on a date with someone else and he feels ugh, can he self soothe, or is he gonna start texting your phone every 15 minutes wanting reassurance? Can you turn your phone off, or are you gonna get sucked into that?

How he copes when all things happen at once -- some stress from family life, work life, poly stuff, and NOW the toilet got clogged.

Same for you-- how do you cope? Can you cope?

Poly means more of everything: more people, more calendars, more coordinating, more stress.

Higher highs, but also lower lows.

Or maybe you're fine and emotionally independent, just have no willingness. Just because I *CAN* juggle 20 things at once doesn't mean I feel like doing it all the time, or at all.

Some people have all the skills and ability for doing poly, but do not have the willingness, because they don't want more stuff to deal with on the emotional bandwidth. They want LESS-- less people, less stress, less calendars, less complications, less involvement, less entanglements, less of all of that.

Galagirl

 

[delphine]

UPDATE:

The cat is out of the bag. Villiers and I had a very long and intense conversation yesterday and we came to the conclusion we want different things now. He was fine with a FWB, but not with polyamory and needed to face that and be honest with himself and me.
We are going to therapy to see how and what to do next. I'm very sad, hurt and disappointed in a way, that it had to take so long, but on the other hand I'm relieved to start fresh.

Thank you for all the help. It all feels so much clearer now. I'm out of words, will update more when I can.

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm sorry, because this must hurt, but I am glad you got off the fence.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm very sad, hurt and disappointed in a way, that it had to take so long, but on the other hand I'm relieved to start fresh.

I can understand having mixed feelings and needing some time to process all that.

While I'm sorry it took this long for him to say clearly where he is at, I am glad he DID say it clearly so both of you get can get off the fence.

I hope the next counseling session(s) is/are productive in helping you two determine next steps in a healthy way.

Hang in there!

GG

 

[kdt26417]

Hi delphine,

Thanks for updating us. I see that you are at a mixed crossroads, in some ways you feel bad about it, but in some ways you feel good about it. I hope you and Villiers are able to work things out in therapy.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.