My committed partner expressed fears about me being with another lover. I don't know if I should discontinue seeing my lover.

[diestel]

Hi People,

I've been with my lover since 8 years, while he was in a relationship. His partner didn't know about me. I wanted to tell her, but he didn't want her to know. They had an agreement that he doens't tell her when he is with someone else. I respected that. It was a secret, but it was very burdening for me.

He wanted to live with me somewhere else, leave his wife. But I didnt want that, because I was also kind of friends with her. We just continued this. As time passed I started engaging in a relationship with my current partner. I was always open with my first partner about me being with others as well. it was fine for him.

We moved in together. It's been 3 years now. During that time my nesting partner got to know my newer lover and his wife and their newborn child for the first time. My newer lover and his wife always had many conflicts and my lover's wife separated from him right after the child was born.

With me and my nesting partner there were always ups and downs, of course. He explored his sexuality a little bit and was casually with others, but mainly had bad (racist) experiences and nothing long term or loving emerged.

A few days ago, he shared that he has many fears related to me being with my lover. He tried long time to be fine with it. His values are that he never wants be the one to stop me from anything. He wants to see me happy. But also he noticed that he cannot find a good way to deal with the situation. Me being with my lover is disturbing for him and he wants stop neglecting his own feelings. he couldn't really express what exactly was burdening, or I couldn't really understand.

I am happy that he is now able to share his fears honestly and be true to his own feelings and worries instead of just saying all is fine to not lose me (that's his fear) although he doesn't feel fine.

By the way, he wouldn't lose me, I guess, at least from my side...

So now I don't know how to deal with this new situation. Is anyone in a similar situation? What is important for me to take into consideration??

I want them to be fine with each other. They know each other through me, but since a few months they haven't met. but they never talk about relationship stuff, neither their wishes, nor what they mean to each other, nor how they feel about this constellation ... all communication about these things is going through me, which is also burdening me.

My lover expressed recently that he wishes to spend more time with me, like a whole weekend, instead of just the nights from time to time.

I don't want to lose my partner. I want to live with him and do family planning in the coming years. But I also cannot change that I like to be with my lover, as well. I cannot change my feelings for both of them... even if i stop being sexually engaged with my lover, my feelings for him stay the same. I would just do this to respect my partner's feelings. I wish that it would be possible to be with both of them and that they both would be fine with it.

 

[Evie]

After this much time, why do you think your nesting partner is now expressing that he has a problem with your lover? Do you think it's because of the deception towards your lover's wife? Or is it because you and your nesting partner are starting to think about family planning and he sees this type of relationship escalation as incompatible with polyamory/extramarital affair? Is he concerned about paternity?

"All the communication about these things is going through me, which is also burdening me."

This is pretty common. It's your responsibility, as the hinge, to manage communication. They are allowed to prefer a more parallel model, especially with the DADT precedent on your lover's side.

 

[diestel]

After this much time, why do you think your nesting partner is now expressing that he has a problem with your lover? Do you think it's because of the deception towards your lover's wife? Or is it because you and your nesting partner are starting to think about family planning and he sees this type of relationship escalation as incompatible with polyamory/ extramarital affair? Is he concerned about paternity?

"All communication about these things is going through me, which is also burdening me."

This is pretty common. It's your responsibility, as the hinge, to manage communication. They are allowed to prefer a more parallel model, especially with the DADT precedent on your partner's side.

Hi Evie,

It feels so good that I have written all this and I am very thankful to directly get a response to it!! I have never really talked about all this with someone who asks those kind of questions. I just talked with people who try to be understanding, but actually find it all very strange what I am into... so I'm very happy you responded in a very comforting way! I was very excited and scared as well how this reaching out to strangers could be, but I'm very relieved!!

I don't know exactly why, after all this time, my nesting partner expressed this. I think it has to do with him starting to honour himself and his needs, instead of just killing his wishes to comfort others. Maybe now he feels more comfortable with sharing and has fewer fears.

Yes, my nesting partner has a problem with my lover because of the deception towards my lover's ex-wife. (I forgot to tell that my lovers wife separated from my lover, as their common child was newly born). My nesting partner mentioned he has no problem with me being with other people, but especially with him. He doesn't like him, and i totally understand. I was suffering from not telling his former wife that I'm with her husband and i feel guilty that I was not brave enough to just tell her. Although my lover didn't want me to talk to her, somehow I gave their relationship more authority. But I learned my lesson. I tell my lover now that in case he is with a new partner, I will tell that partner, or else I cannot tolerate me being with him and I would stop seeing him because its too much burden for me.

I don't know if my nesting partner sees this type of relationship as incompatible with his idea of paternity. That's a very good question!! I will ask him this!

So you think it's pretty common that I am kind of the in-between communication/anchor, in the sense I talk to both, they talk to me, but they don't talk with each other? Is it common that this feels like an extra struggle for me, and also that I feel frustrated that they don't do this work of sorting things out in between them? Of course, I know they just know each other through me.

I would love to transform this constellation into a model in which they both talk with each other about it. But of course I agree that they are allowed to prefer a parallel model in which they just each talk to me but not to each other. It's just hard for me. I am scared that I am messing up things.

I also notice this imbalance: I am very transparent with my nesting partner about all communication between my lover and me, but I am more closed up to my lover about my nesting partner's wishes and feelings and stuff.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi Evie,

It feels so good that I have written all this and I am very thankful to directly get a response to it!! I have never really talked about all this with someone who asks those kind of questions. I just talked with people who try to be understanding, but actually find it all very strange what I am into... so I'm very happy you responded in a very comforting way! I was very excited and scared as well how this reaching out to strangers could be, but I'm very relieved!!

I don't know exactly why, after all this time, my nesting partner expressed this. I think it has to do with him starting to honour himself and his needs, instead of just killing his wishes to comfort others. Maybe now he feels more comfortable with sharing and has fewer fears.

Yes, my nesting partner has a problem with my lover because of the deception towards my lover's ex-wife. (I forgot to tell that my lovers wife separated from my lover, as their common child was newly born).

Let's call your nesting partner Nest and your other partner Lover, just for clarity. We usually ask people to choose nicknames for their partners.

Nest mentioned he has no problem with me being with other people, but especially with Lover. He doesn't like Lover, and i totally understand. I was suffering from not telling Lover's former wife that I waswith her husband and i feel guilty that I was not brave enough to just tell her. Although Lover didn't want me to talk to her, somehow I gave their relationship more authority. But I learned my lesson. I tell Lover now that in case he is with a new partner, I will tell that partner, or else I cannot tolerate me being with him and I would stop seeing him because its too much burden for me.

I don't know if Nest sees this type of relationship as incompatible with his idea of paternity. That's a very good question!! I will ask him this!

So you think it's pretty common that I am kind of the in-between communication/anchor, in the sense I talk to both, they talk to me, but they don't talk with each other?

Yes, this is common and it is the way it should be. Your two partners are under no obligation to meet, speak or share personal feelings with each other. As the hinge, it is your responsibility to listen to both their needs and desires and seek to offer compromises and schedules that suit everyone as best as possible.

Is it common that this feels like an extra struggle for me, and also that I feel frustrated that they don't do this work of sorting things out in between them? Of course, I know they just know each other through me.

It is common to realize the work you've taken on as a poly woman with two partners. Sometimes one's two partners will meet, like each other, get along and hang out, but they might still only be casual friends and not want to share their deepest intimate feelings.

So yes, if you want to continue with both guys, you need to improve your communication skills. You can be honest, forthright, transparent, but empathetic and discreet. Nest is now having second thoughts about polyamory. If he's decided he wants you all to himself, he can feel that. You decide if you agree. If you do not agree, you are no longer compatible. Or maybe if you're upfront that you're not giving up Lover, Nest will learn to adapt to the reality that this guy isn't going away, even if you and Nest start having babies.

I would love to transform this constellation into a model in which they both talk with each other about it. But of course I agree that they are allowed to prefer a parallel model in which they just each talk to me but not to each other. It's just hard for me. I am scared that I am messing up things.

That's understandable. But your main goal is honesty, right?

I also notice this imbalance: I am very transparent with my nesting partner about all communication between my lover and me, but I am more closed up to my lover about my nesting partner's wishes and feelings and stuff.

You don't need to, nor should you, tell either guy about the other guy's deepest feelings and fears. You take it all in and decide what YOU want to do with it. Arrange a compromise, or dump one guy or the other (or both). Those are basically your choices. You might want to date men who are better in touch with their feelings, don't bottle them up, don't do DADT things, etc.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle. I mean this kindly, okay? It may not be what you want to hear.

Let me repeat back what I understand in my own words to make sure I got it how you meant it. Without names, I'm confused as to which is which.

• You currently have two partners.
• You are still seeing Lover. That relationship started 8 years ago as an actual DADT thing or a cheating affair, and he lied to you about the DADT. (I cannot tell from the writing. No judgement, just trying to be concise).
  • Lover wanted to keep the relationship secret from his wife and it was a burden to you.
  • Ultimately Lover and his wife broke up.
  • You are also dating/living with Nest. That relationship is 3 years old.
  • Nest used to say he was okay with you dating Lover, but over time he became not okay with this.
    • He does not like the DADT/cheating/whatever it was.
    • He is okay with you poly-dating other people, but he doesn't like that you are continuing with Lover.
    • Is he worried you will do cheating-type things again with Lover, and this time, Nest would be the one being kept in the dark?

Is that how it's seeming?

A few days ago, Nest shared that he had many fears related to me being with Lover. He tried for a long time to be fine with it. His values are that he never wants be the one to stop me from anything. He wants to see me happy. But also he noticed that he cannot find a good way to deal with the situation. Me being with Lover is disturbing for him and he wants stop neglecting his own feelings. He couldn't really express what exactly was burdening him, or I couldn't really understand.

You could suggest Nest work it out with a poly-friendly counselor. You cannot be his free therapist. You might be able to help with reasonable and rational requests, but he can't even say what the issues are, much less make requests.

You could suggest he look for one here:

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

www.polyfriendly.org

It's not the only place, but it's a start. You could also do couples counseling, as well as individual counseling, if that helps to get to the bottom of this. But because counseling is expensive, you could be brave and ask pointblank:

"I want to ask you some things. I want you to listen and not say anything until I'm done with the list, okay? Lover and I started with murky circumstances. It was DADT. Or perhaps he told me it was DADT, but it was really cheating on his side, and I didn't know. I'm still really attached to him and don't want to break up, even though he and his wife ended up divorced.

Are you scared I'm not trustworthy? Are you scared I'm too attached to Lover? Are you scared I might start doing cheating-type things and this time it would be you kept in the dark, like the old wife was? Are you scared I just go along with things and don't speak up for myself, and now that you are dating/living with me, my decisions won't affect just me, but will leak over on to you too?"

I am happy that he is now able to share his fears honestly and be true to his own feelings and worries, instead of just saying all is fine to not lose me (that's his fear), although he doesn't feel fine.

By the way, he wouldn't lose me, I guess, at least from my side...

So you wouldn't break up with him. But you are worried he's past his fear of losing you and might drop you if you keep seeing Lover.

I want them to be fine with each other. They know each other through me, but they haven't met for a few months.

A meta can be aware that the other exists. That is good enough. They don't have to interact, or be pals, or anything. You don't have to be the "go-between." You can stop doing that.

If they happen to bump into each other they can be basic polite, like one does with the grocery store clerk or bank teller. They do not have to be friends. Just because they are dating the same person (you) doesn't mean they have anything else in common. Being basically polite is good enough. There is nothing wrong with parallel poly.

They never talk about relationship stuff, nor their wishes, nor what they mean to each other, nor how they feel about this constellation. All communication about these things is going through me, which is also burdening me.

That is a conversation you have with each of them, separately, in the two dyads.

(You + Nest)
(You + Lover)

Each couple should about relationship stuff, their wishes, your wishes, what you two mean to each other, how they feel in this poly network.

As you do your hinge work, do NOT leak personal stuff from one dyad over into the other dyad.

My lover expressed recently that he wishes to spend more time with me, like a whole weekend, instead of just overnights, from time to time.

You think about this, and if it's something you want to do, plan a weekend together.

I think it has to do with him starting to honour himself and his needs, instead of just killing his wishes to comfort others.

I don't want to lose Nest. I want to live with him and do family planning in the coming years. But I also cannot change that I like to be with Lover, as well. I cannot change my feelings for either of them... even if i stop being sexually engaged with Lover, my feelings for Nest stay the same. I would just do this to respect Nest's feelings. I wish that it were possible to be with both of them and that they both would be fine with it.

I invite you to reflect on those two statements.

Is your partner Nest becoming more healthy? Are you worried he's outgrowing you because you still want to put other people and their feelings ahead of your own?

It used to work when you two would "trade," but now, if he's going to start putting his own well-being first, rather than people pleasing... it rocks the boat and makes you scared he will walk away from this poly V.

So you think it's pretty common that I am kind of the in-between communication/anchor, in the sense I talk to both, they talk to me, but they don't talk with each other? Is it common that this feels like an extra struggle for me, and also that I feel frustrated that they don't do this work of sorting things out in between them? Of course, I know they just know each other through me.

Again, there is nothing wrong with parallel poly. They don't have to talk to each other.

If YOU want to have more than one relationship, YOU deal with more than one relationship. If you don't like doing that much work, drop one or both. I don't say that to be mean. I say it because you have to manage your time and energy. There is such thing as being polysaturated.

I would love to transform this constellation into a model in which they both talk with each other about it.

What is the "it" you want them to talk about? That Nest doesn't especially like Lover, or approve of how you and Lover got together?

I also notice this imbalance: I am very transparent with my nesting partner about all communication between my lover and me, but I am more closed up to my lover about my nesting partner's wishes and feelings and stuff.

Are you oversharing, leaking things from (you + Nest) over on to (you + Lover), or the other way around?

Did Lover even consent to you telling Nest all this stuff about Lover?

Did Nest consent in the other direction?

You seem to struggle with personal boundaries and being a good hinge. Maybe this helps:

334 - What Makes a Good Hinge Partner — Multiamory

Being a hinge partner can be tough sometimes. This episode focuses on some unique struggles that hinge partners may face, some common pitfalls, and what it takes to be a good hinge partner.

www.multiamory.com

Galagirl

 

[diestel]

Let's call your nesting partner Nest and your other partner Lover, just for clarity. We usually ask people to choose nicknames for their partners.

Yes, this is common and it is the way it should be. Your two partners are under no obligation to meet, speak or share personal feelings with each other. As the hinge, it is your responsibility to listen to both their needs and desires and seek to offer compromises and schedules that suit everyone as best as possible.

It is common to realize the work you've taken on as a poly woman with two partners. Sometimes one's two partners will meet, like each other, get along and hang out, but they might still only be casual friends and not want to share their deepest intimate feelings.

So yes, if you want to continue with both guys, you need to improve your communication skills. You can be honest, forthright, transparent, but empathetic and discreet. Nest is now having second thoughts about polyamory. If he's decided he wants you all to himself, he can feel that. You decide if you agree. If you do not agree, you are no longer compatible. Or maybe if you're upfront that you're not giving up Lover, Nest will learn to adapt to the reality that this guy isn't going away, even if you and Nest start having babies.

That's understandable. But your main goal is honesty, right?

You don't need to, nor should you, tell either guy about the other guy's deepest feelings and fears. You take it all in and decide what YOU want to do with it. Arrange a compromise, or dump one guy or the other (or both). Those are basically your choices. You might want to date men who are better in touch with their feelings, don't bottle them up, don't do DADT things, etc.

Thank you for the clarity. It is helpful to see those choices so clear in front of me... though sometimes they don't feel like actual choices, because I don;t wanna give up either of these relationships.

The usual implication of no longer being compatible is that partners leave you, right? Or is it common that partners go along and learn to adapt?

I am upfront with Nest and he has a clue I won't give up Lover, or at least I don't wish to. It's on Nest now to decide how he wants to go. He said he needs to figure out that. I am scared to loose Nest, as we are emotionally, financially and socially super-connected. Then again, it's up to me if will I go along with his decision. I have told Nest that I still wanna continue meeting Lover and that nothing will change in my feelings, for both of them, irrespective of what I do, or what I decide. Now I have to decide what I will actually do, and bear the consequences.

My main goal is for it to feel comfortable for all three of us. Honesty is a goal, as well. I have my learned my lesson. I was suffering a lot in those two years where I was not telling Lover's wife (now ex-wife) that I was with her husband.

I think I was, for sure, oversharing stuff about Lover with Nest. I regret that and feel very sorry for it. I thought it might support him in feeling safer, but I guess that was not the case... It was not nice from my side.

I want to date and be with both. I am totally not in the mood to date anyone new, or even get intimate with someone else at the moment. It takes time for me to get comfortable with people, especially when things are that unstable at the moment, on the edge of falling apart.

Actually, I wish for them to learn about how to be in better touch with their feelings, to not bottle them up, and to avoid DADT things. But, of course, that`s just a wish. I have no control over that.

 

[diestel]

I'm sorry you struggle. I mean this kindly, ok? It may not be what you want to hear.

Let me repeat back what I understand in my own words to make sure I got it how you meant it. Without names I'm confused as to which is which.

• You currently have two partners.
• Still see Lover. That relationship started 8 years ago as an actual DADT thing or cheating affair and he lied to you about the DADT. ( I cannot tell from the writing. No judgement, just trying to be concise).
  • Lover wanted to keep the relationship secret from his wife and it was a burden to you.
  • Ultimately Lover and his wife broke up.
• You also date Nest. That relationship is 3 years old. You live with this person now.
  • Nest used to say he was ok with you dating Lover, but over time? Now Nest is not ok with you dating Lover.
    • He does not like the DADT/Cheating whatever it was.
    • He is ok with you poly dating other people, but he doesn't like that you continue with Lover.
    • Is he worried you will do cheat-y things again with Lover? And this time Nest would be the one being kept in the dark?

Is that how it goes?




You could suggest he work it out with a poly counselor. You cannot be his free therapist. You might be able to help with reasonable and rational requests, but he can't even say what the issue are much less make requests.

You could suggest he look for one

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

www.polyfriendly.org

Not the only place, but its a start. You could also do couple counseling as well as individual counseling if that helps to get to the bottom of this. But because counseling is expensive, you could be brave and ask point blank.

" I want to ask you some things. I want you to listen and not say anything til I'm done with the list ok?
Lover and I started with murky circumstances. DADT or perhaps he told me it was DADT and it was really cheating on his side and I didn't know. I'm still really attached to him and don't want to break up even though he and his wife ended up divorced. Are you scared I'm not trustworthy? Are you scared I'm too attached to Lover? Are you scared I might start doing cheat-y things and this time it would be you kept in the dark like the old wife was? Are you scared I just go along with things and don't speak up for myself? And now that you date me, my decisions won't affect just me. But will leak over on to you too?"



So you wouldn't break up with him. But you are worried he's past his fear of losing you and might drop you if you keep seeing Lover?




Metas could be aware that the other exists. That is good enough. They don't have to interact or be pals or anything. You don't have to be the "go between." Stop doing that.

If they happen to bump into each other they could be basic polite like one does with the grocery store clerk or bank teller. They do not have to be friends. Just because they date the same person (you) doesn't mean they have anything else in common. Basic polite is good enough.

There is nothing wrong with parallel poly.



That is conversation you have with each of them separately in the two dyads.

(You + Nest)
(You + Lover)

You two talk about relationship stuff, their wishes, your wishes, what you two mean to each other, how they feel in this poly network.

And you as hinge do not leak stuff from one dyad over into the other dyad.

Then you think on it and if that is something you want to do? You plan a weekend together.

I invite you to reflect on those two statements.

Is your partner Nest becoming more healthy? Are you worried he's outgrowing you because you still want to put other people and their feelings ahead of your own?

It used to work when you two would "trade" but now if he's going to start putting his well being first rather than people pleasing... it rocks the boat and makes you scared he will walk away from this poly V?

Again, there is nothing wrong with parallel poly. They don't have to talk to each other.

If you want to have more than one relationship? You deal with more than one relationship. If you don't like doing that much work? Drop one or both.

I don't say that to be mean. I say it because you have to manage your time and energy. There is such thing as being poly saturated.

What is the "it" you want them to talk about? That Nest doesn't esp like Lover? Or approve of how you and Lover got together?

Are you oversharing? Leaking things from (you + Nest) over on to (you + Lover)? Or the other way around?

Did Lover even consent to you telling Nest all this stuff about Lover?

Did Nest consent in the other direction?

You seem to struggle with personal boundaries and being a good hinge. Maybe this helps?

334 - What Makes a Good Hinge Partner — Multiamory

Being a hinge partner can be tough sometimes. This episode focuses on some unique struggles that hinge partners may face, some common pitfalls, and what it takes to be a good hinge partner.

www.multiamory.com

You got basically everything right. Thanks for those suggestions with the counselor. I can maybe can suggest that to him, but money is a problem with us at the moment, so I don't think he will go for it.

I wouldn't break up with Nest, for sure. I wanna be with him. This I know for sure. I think he does not like his role in this constellation because he is doubting his own existence and feels that he is stopping me from being the way I wanna be. He feels he makes things complicated. That's at least one part of what I know. There was more that he couldn't express until now, he said.

It's good to hear that I don't need to be a go-between. I realize I overshared too much about Lover's personal issues with Nest out of fear of losing Nest. Now I really regret that. I will apologize to Lover.

I would love to plan a weekend together with Lover, but I don't wanna mess up things with Nest. Also, I don't wanna mess up things with Lover in case, after this weekend, I withdraw from Lover...

I totally think Nest is becoming more healthy, which I am very happy about. I don't wanna seem selfish. Many times I have the feeling I am just thinking of myself and putting my own feelings ahead of other's, not being happy with Nest exclusively. Or going to transform Lover's and my relationship into a more committed one, instead of just meeting whenever it fits us.

How do I know if I might be polysaturated?

The "it," I guess I want them to talk about is what they mean to each other. For example, if Lover sees Nest just as the guy who stops him from being with me, the way Lover wants to be with me. Or such things.

I think the stuff which makes me feel uncomfortable and stresses me is that Lover wants more, in sense of having a baby together and spending more time with me, which I don't want (which I told him). I feel comfortable with how it is, that we are there when we feel like it, and if not, then not. This was how it started and this is how I like it. I'm not interested in transforming our relationship into something else, which I feel Lover would like. Nest knows this, and feels uncomfortable, because Nest thinks he is in the way, even though I tell Nest that I want to be nesting with him, and not with Lover.

I was oversharing. Lover didn't consent to me telling his private stuff to Nest. I told Lover very transparently that everything that he tells me I am free to tell. I was very sensitive because of our past dishonesty. So I was very firm on that whatever Lover told me, I would tell Nest. Lover never told me that I should not share anything he told me. But I feel still uncomfortable that I overshared, even though I said that I would tell everything, or that there was a chance I would, at least. From Nest's side, I think I never overshared with Lover. We usually don't talk much about Nest.

I totally struggle with personal boundaries. That is true and on point. How can I learn to keep my boundaries?

 

[GalaGirl]

I wouldn't brake up with Nest, for sure. I wanna be with him. This I know for sure. I think he is not liking his role in this constellation because he is doubting his own existence and feels that he is stopping me from being the way I wanna be. He feels he makes things complicated. That's at least one part I know. There is more, which he couldn't express until now, he said.

Is Nest is basically telling you he wants you to be happy, but he can't do a poly V any more? I think you could ask that straight up.

Both you and Nest seem to struggle with speaking plainly. Is that true?

How do I know if I might be polysaturated?

It depends on you and your life. Some people are "full" at zero partners, because there's just too much going on. Some are full at 1 partner, 2 partners, 3 partners, etc.

If I'm honest, I think you are facing the fact that Lover wants more than you can give, and it's time to drop Lover.

So planning a weekend, while it might be fun, could take a back burner. Solve the bigger issues first.

The "it" I want them to talk about is what they mean to each other. For example, if Lover sees Nest as just the guy who stops him from being with me the way Lover wants to be with me, or such things.

Why exactly would they need to do that, rather than just tell YOU? Telling YOU "I'm unhappy in this poly V; I don't want to do it anymore, if you keep seeing X," is much faster, isn't it?

If Lover sees Nest as the guy who stops him from being with you the way Lover wants, and tells him so, what do you think Nest supposed to do? Say:

• "I am so sorry! Let me bow out, so you can have Hinge to yourself."
• "I suggest you talk to Hinge directly about your unhappiness. Issues between (you + Hinge) are not my responsibility to solve."
• "Fuck off."
• Something else.

I think the stuff which makes me feel uncomfortable and stresses me is that Lover wants more, in the sense of having a baby together and spending more time with me, which I don't want (which I told him).

Doesn't Lover have to coparent his infant by his ex wife? Why's he so hot to have ANOTHER baby with you that he has to coparent? (He's bananas.)

I'm glad you told him NO, you do not want to escalate with him. You like it casual. There. Done. No longer a problem for you.

He can process his feelings around your answer on his own. I don't know how recent his divorce is, but you are not his woobie or life raft. He can figure out his post-divorce life without latching on to you so tightly.

Keep using BC if you still share sex with him.

If Lover keeps pressing you for more than you care to give, whines, begs, or behaves poorly? You can dump him, because he's not being respectful of your "No" and keeps pushing you.

It sounds like you have weak or porous boundaries, and are at risk for "giving in" just to stop the badgering, not because you really want the thing.

Nest feels uncomfortable because he thinks he is in the way, even though I tell him I want to be nesting with him, not with Lover.

You could ask Nest what he needs to feel secure with you, and BELIEVE that you want to live with him, and plan a future with him, and that he is NOT in the way of anything.

Or is it that Nest frames it like, "Oh, I'm in the way," when REALLY he means, "I want to break up and get out of this weirdness. I just don't want you to feel bad, so I put the blame on myself."

You could ask Nest that too.

I was oversharing, Lover didn't consent to me telling his private stuff to Nest. I told Lover very transparently that everything that he tells me I am free to tell. I was very sensitive because of our past. I was very firm that whatever Lover told me I could tell. Lover never told me that I should not share anything he told me. But I feel still uncomfortable that I overshared. Although I said that I would share everything, or that there was chance I would, at least. From Nest, I think I never overshared with Lover. We usually don't talk much about Nest.

So you told Lover you were going to be uber transparent, and if he told you stuff, you would tell Nest. That sounds like implicit consent. He went in forewarned. All Lover has to do is NOT tell you stuff. Then you can't repeat it to Nest, because you don't even know it.

Is it safe to say that (you + Lover) had a cheating affair? Lover was hiding it from his wife? And now you have all this trauma still from having gone along with it for so long? And now you did this super-transparent thing on that side to assuage your guilt from those leftovers, without even asking Nest if he wanted to know SO many details?

Even if Lover consents/doesn't care, and you have this burning urge to tell everything from past guilt... that doesn't mean NEST wants to hear so much.

It's not really the job of (you + Nest) relationship to make up for whatever (you + Married Lover) relationship was/did.

I tell Lover now that if he is with a new partner, I will tell that partner, or else I cannot tolerate being with him and I would stop seeing him because it's too much of a burden for me.

Gently... why would Lover even tell you if he took up with someone new? He could just keep it quiet and keep you in the dark, just like he did with his old wife. See both you and the other person. How trustworthy is he? What work has he done, what changes has he made, that lead you to believe he won't repeat his old ways?

I struggle with personal boundaries. That is true and on point. How can I learn to keep my boundaries?

Do you even know what they are? You can set a personal boundary around your time, energy, belongings, money, anything you want. They define what you are and are not up for, what you will and will not do, what you are and are not comfortable with.

Nobody else has to like or obey them. You make them for YOU to like and obey.

Setting Healthy Boundaries in Relationships

Whether with partners, family, coworkers, or friends, setting healthy boundaries in relationships can help you strengthen ties and improve your self-esteem.

www.helpguide.org

You can Google other articles. You can also work with a counselor if you need help with personal boundaries.

I encourage you to have the conversations you need to have with Nest in PLAIN WORDS.

I encourage you evaluate if the relationship with Lover is still compatible, or if Lover wants more than you care to give now, so it's best ended.

Only you can decide what you want and what you feel like doing/not doing.

Reflect on what serves you best at this point in time. What do you actually want? Hopefully you want healthy relationships.

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf

Be firm of purpose and decisive. Do not waffle, or be about all "up in the air" about it. That is my suggestion to you.

 

[GalaGirl]

I wanna date and be with them both. I am totally not in the mood to date anyone new or even get intimate with someone else, at the moment. I need time to get comfortable with people, especially when things are unstable at the moment, on the edge of falling apart.

What is unstable or falling apart?

Actually, I wish for them to learn about how to be better in touch with their feelings, to not bottle them up and to avoid DADT things. But of course. that`s just a wish. I have no control over it.

You do and you don't.

You can't control if these men do these things or do anything to stop doing them and improve themselves.

You DO control whether or not you feel like dating people who are not in touch with their feelings, bottle things up, and do DADT things.

If you decide to raise the bar on your personal standards for what you seek in a dating partner, what is and is not acceptable to you, you CAN break up with people who no longer make the cut.

 

[diestel]

Without even asking Nest if he wanted to know THIS many details?

Nest wanted to know. He said many times that it helped him to know all the details.

Gently... so why would Lover even tell you if he takes up with someone new? He could just keep it quiet and keep you in the dark, just like he did with his old wife, and see both you and the other person. How trustworthy is he? What work did he do, what changes did he make, that lead you to believe he won't repeat his old ways?

In between, Lover had another partner after his wife, and he told me about it. He also he told me that he didn't really clear things up with that woman about what she felt about me being in the picture. So, at that time, I withdrew from him and was happy he found somonee. He didnt try to approach me or anything. So I feel there is a kind of trust.

I encourage you to have the conversations you need to have with Nest in PLAIN WORDS.

Yeah, plain words are soooo helpful. Sometimes it's hard for me. But I know I need to learn this.

Hopefully you want health relationships.

Yeah, I want healthy relationships!!

What is unstable or falling apart?

I guess unstable in the sense of it's not me who is making the decisions, because I already made my decision. I would like to continue with both of them, have no kids with Lover, not transform my relationship with Lover. And I wanna stay with Nest and work things out with him, and continue talking with him about family planning. On this kind of stuff I am clear. But it feels like it's not in my hands, somehow.

You CAN break up with people who no longer make the cut.

Yeah, I can. You are right... I just need to figure out if I want to.

If Lover sees Nest as the guy who stops him from being with you the way Lover wants? And tells him so? What do you think Nest supposed to do? Say

• "I am so sorry! Let me bow out so you can have Hinge to yourself then"
• "I suggest you talk to Hinge direct about your unhappiness. Issues between (you + Hinge) are not my responsibility to solve."
• "Fuck off."
• Something else.

While reading this here I was really smiling a lot. I loved how you made the pictures appear in my mind. Thank you for this clarity. I will ask Lover, and also Nest, in plain words... "Are you happy in this poly V?"

Keep using BC if you still share sex with him.

What does BC mean? I don't know the abbreviation. I'm not a native English speaker.

But if Lover keeps pressing you for more than you care to give, whines, begs, or behaves poorly, you dump him. Because he's not respectful of your "No" and keeps pushing you.

He actually is not. He used glasses on the table the last time to explain about his role in this so called "poly V" (just got to know this word now) and that he is in the worst position, he felt. He told me thats how it is. It's okay somehow. That's what he said, although I know and he expressed different wishes. But he respected my choices and still told he was there for me. It was kind of sweet, because he also has his wishes. He can have them, of course. I'm just not the right one for him, to live this life.

Glad you told him NO. You do not want to escalate with Lover. You like it casual. There. Done. No longer a problem for you.

Totally.

You could ask Nest what he needs to feel secure with you and BELIEVE YOU that you want to live with him and plan a future with him. And that Nest is NOT in the way of anything.

I will for sure ask him this, as well!! Thank you for that!! This is very helpful. I exactly wanna ask him this but couldn't find the words. Maybe also because English is not our native language. That's a huge struggle many times, and leads to many misunderstandings, as we don't know the meanings of many words.

Or is it that Nest frames it that way like "Oh, I'm in the way" when REALLY he means "I want to break up and get out of this weirdness. I just don't want you to feel bad, so I put the blame on myself."

You could ask Nest that too.

This I could ask, as well. I'm quite sure he doesn't mean it like this, but i think it's still good to bring this up. Maybe it is like this.

I encourage you to have the conversations you need to have with Nest in PLAIN WORDS.

I encourage you evaluate if the relationship with Lover is still compatible, or if Lover wants more than you care to give now, so it's best ended.

Only you can decide what you want and what you feel like doing/not doing.

Reflect on what serves you best at this point in time, what you actually want. Hopefully you want healthy relationships.

Yes. Thank you for the encouragement! I for sure will have this conversation with Nest. I feel quite comfortable with Lover expressing what he wants more, and me saying that I do not care to give him that.

If you decide to raise the bar on your personal standards for what you seek in a dating partner, what is and is not acceptable to you, you CAN break up with people who no longer make the cut.

This is actually true... It is good to hear this clearly, that I can break up always as an option. I don't decide to raise the bar at the moment or I would rather call it like I would like to accompany Nest and Lover in expanding. If they expand in a way that my standards can grow with them, I'm more than happy. If they expand in a way that my standards fall, I need to reevaluate...

Do you even know what they are? You can set a personal boundary around your time, energy, belongings, money, anything you want. They define what you are and are not up for. What you will and will not do. What you are and are not comfortable with.

Nobody else has to like obey or them. You make them for YOU to like and enforce.

Thanks. I know this, but applying it in life is always a different story!

Wow, it's very amazing chatting about this all!! It clears out many doubts and makes me feel like things are moving. I really appreciate the time and energy you put into this, even though we don't know each other.

 

[diestel]

share sex

I am learning a new nice vocabulary. It feels way better to express than "have sex."

 

[Bobbi]

There's so much here, and others are unpacking it well. I want to offer that you are sharing WAY TOO MUCH. There are things that just shouldn't be shared, even with a share-everything agreement.

Share what YOU think and feel about your partners as a person. Share what you do and where you go. Share YOUR feelings, and with permission, share sexual details.

Do not share OTHER'S thoughts, feelings, stresses, the issues of one partner, with another. Do not share things partners want or need from you with the other partner. This practice breeds anger, resentment, blame, and can lend to severe dislike and a horrible hinge experience.

Right now, Nest doesn't trust or like Lover, because you told him about the DADT and your guilt about it. It was for you to decide if you wanted to date someone with that arrangement, knowing that he could be cheating. You chose to see him. It was none of Nest's business.

It also was not your responsibility to tell Lover's wife about your relationship. DADT means exactly that. To do otherwise would be a violation. Your guilt is a response to you choosing to be in a relationship style you didn't want, but didn't have the ability to enforce your own boundary about, to say, "No, I won't be in that type of relationship. Either you tell her, and introduce us, so I know she's cool with it, or I won't stay in this dynamic."

Lover shouldn't know about Nest's fears and Nest shouldn't know that Lover wants more time or a child! None of that is Nest's business, unless you choose to give Lover more time or have a child with him.

If you want to spend a weekend with Lover, you decide to do it, and then tell Nest that you will be gone that weekend. If you don't want to do that, then say no, you don't want to accommodate that request. Do not bring Nest into the conversation at all. (People tend to blame others for their decisions, to not take responsibility.) It's between you and Lover. Regardless of which you decide, do not share any feelings expressed about it with the other.

Nothing starts breaking the feeling of security faster than hearing your partner is being pressured to do things that can severely change your relationship. These things shouldn't be shared unless you have decided to give more time or have a child. It won't matter how much you say you aren't doing it. The insecurity is there and can't be undone. If you aren't going to give these things, then there is absolutely no reason to share. Nothing positive will come if it, but you will create a partner who doesn't trust, like, respect, or even want you near your other partner. They will feel threatened, no matter how much you say you won't do it.

Having two partners who see each other as the competition, problem, or threat will make them both very unhappy. And it will make you very stressed having to deal with the new dynamic you created with bad hinging. It may result in the eventual end of one or both relationships.

Never talk to a partner about problems in another relationship. Never share intimate details of conversations with a partner with another partner. Never share things one partner says about another. If one partner is sharing thoughts and feelings about the other partner, then you probably have said too much.

 

[Evie]

BC stands for Birth Control, e.g. hormones or condoms etc

 

[Evie]

"Never talk to a partner about problems in another relationship."

I disagree. I think this is an unrealistic expectation. How much you talk about is very dependent on the personalities involved, but 'never'? Yeah, nah.

 

[Bobbi]

"Never talk to a partner about problems in another relationship."

I disagree. I think this is an unrealistic expectation. How much you talk about is very dependent on the personalities involved, but 'never'? Yeah, nah.

I equate it as the same advice in monogamy, don't talk to your family about problems in your marriage unless you want their help getting out.

You could have a bad fight, found out he cheated. You vent to your family. Then you and your partner make up. All is good. But your family doesn't experience that and will always see him as the guy who cheated on their daughter/sibling, etc. The relationship between them is forever changed and maybe even strained. This can be avoided if you vent to a friend or therapist.

You CAN do it, but you'll have to live with the results.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello diestel,

Before you break up with Lover, you should take his feelings into account. Does Lover want to break up with you? Would he be devastated if you broke up with him?

I'm sorry they can't both be fine with it.
Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am glad talking it out is helping you. You are doing fine, even though English is not your first language.

"BC" is birth control.

He expressed different wishes, but he respected my choices. He told he is there for me. It was kind of sweet, because he also has his wishes and he can have them, of course. I'm just not the right one to live this life with him.

It sounds like Lover respects that you don't want to escalate and have kids together, and though he wishes for more, he will accept that this is as much as you want to do.

I will ask Lover and also Nest, in plain words... "Are you happy in this poly V?"

Yes, speak plainly, and have the conversations you need to have with each one.

So... was this more about your FEELINGS coming to a calmer place? You were initially unsure and anxious, and you feel better now that you know how to approach the needed conversations?

I know this, but applying it in life is a different story.

I am glad you know it. Start applying it in your life. Like any other skill, it will get stronger through use and doing. One doesn't learn to ride a bike without actually riding a bike. One doesn't learn to cook without trying to cook. Yes, sometimes one falls off the bike or burns the food, but again... you learn the skill by DOING it, and get better at it through practice.

I really appreciate the time and energy you put into this, even though we don't know each other

You are welcome. I am glad it helped.

 

[diestel]

Thank you @Bobbi, for your advice, that I share too much. I tried not to share any of this stuff for a few years, but it was making me feel very sad and locked up and disconnected to life and people around me and created fears which I had never had before. If, for example, a close friend had problems and it burdened me, it's important I share this with other friends or partners. Also in my life the roles are not so separated like in your example, with family and relationship... In my life this stuff is very intervened. Some of my family members are my friends. My brother is close friends with Nest, and so on. We talk a lot about our inner feelings, problems, issues n stuff... So sharing less or almost nothing doesn't work for me.

But I see the point in the dynamic that me sharing something about Lover with Nest might make Nest insecure... But Nest also expressed that he wants to know, and that knowing everything helps him. But I feel I need to set boundaries. Say in this situation something like: "Listen, I hear you would like to know all details, and I am open to share them, but only with consent of Lover, so I need to ask him first. What I can share at the moment with you are my general feelings, but I won't share anything about Lover."

Thank you also @kdt for bringing this up. I need to have a conversation with Lover and I'll try to be caring in setting and in communicating my boundaries.

@GalaGirl
Yeah he respects, I feel.

I think it helped getting some insights and sorting out, also knowing the roles with this V, and the hinge's responsibilities in this role, my responsibility. My fears are less, for sure. I will go for the conversations with Nest and Lover...

Thank you for your support, all of you, and the time your took!! Looking forward to what comes next.

 

[diestel]

It also was not your responsibility to tell Lover's wife about your relationship.

Is it that easy?

I learned my lesson, that DADT agreements don't work for me. It worked for Lover. That's what he wanted... Back then, I also sometimes hung out with Lovers (now ex) wife, and it was very stressful... I felt and still feel that I was a bad friend or a bad person... although I'm aware of the possibility that it might have been that she was fine with this DADT thing, which she also wanted. I have no clue. I will probably never know.

What do people usually do when they realize that they've changed, in the sense that they first thought it was fine to DADT, but then it changed and they feel like they need to tell, they don't feel comfortable anymore?


I tried very hard in conversations with Lover to make clear that it's very important to tell and talk about it with his (now ex) wife but he didn't want to. He was firm and I respected that. But I started sharing about my struggles with friends who were not connected to Lover's wife, and I shared it with Nest too.

 

[diestel]

Is it that easy??

I learned my lesson that DADT agreements doesn't work for me. it worked for Lover, that's what he wanted... Back then I also sometimes hung out with lovers wife (now ex wife) and it was very stressful... n I felt m still feel that I was a bad friend or a bad person... although I'm aware of the possibility that it might still was like she was fine with this DADT thing which she also wanted... I have no clue...n will probably never know...

What are people usually doing when they realize they changed in sense that they first thought it's fine to DADT but then it changes and u need to tell or you don't feel comfortable anymore?


I tried very hard in conversations with lover to make clear that it's very important to tell n talk about it with his now ex-wife back then wife but he didn't want, he was so firm n I respected that... But I started talking n sharing about my struggles with friends who are not connected to lovers wife and also with Nest I shared this.

Of course to prevent getting in that situation to know clear about boundaries, I got that... But wasn't there at that point back then and also I'm sure in future it might happen again that I just noticed later.