My wife of 20 years (we have kids too) now wants poly

[Patrick]

My wife of 20 years (we have kids too) now wants poly

She has secretly visited an ex - her first boyfriend a few times behind my back - says they didn't have sex - not sure if i believe her - she's not the most sexually driven person so she might be telling the truth.

but it's at least an emotional affair that was behind my back...

It has been a very hard year for me - i lost 100's of hours of sleep..

I don't want to be her ball and chain.. so i think i have no choice but to agree to poly - or just separate and reno the house into separate apartments...

I told her that i don't know how likely it is that i'll find a woman who is ok with sharing me.... but i do want to look for a lover if we are not going to be mono. part of me is wondering if she really just wants poly because she is so attracted to her ex.

Ironically she and i have sex way these days than most of the years that we were together. Not sure if she's just doing more out of guilt - as a consolation prize... although she does seem to be actually liking it more.
I have had more lovers than she has had in life. and i am definately more adventurous - although again i'd be happy with a mono relationship - accepting her AS IS - the whole package...

btw - i've always thought poly was possible - and not any less natural than any other approach - yet i'm also able to be happy only having sex with one woman as in my experience couples get pretty darned good at pleasuring each other....

ironically she is not as sexual as lovers that ive had..... yet i also would be ok because with all things factored in we do very well together with careers/kids intertwined..



and also i/we still plan to live together in the matrimonial home with our lovely kids..


I really not sure how she'll deal with it if i have a new gal who wants to sex me often..

I guess we'll find out...


Maybe she'll realize that there is no going back once the marriage has been altered forever... i told her that i don't want to string a new woman along, and break the new woman's heart if our marriage / poly committment starts to flip flop after weeks, months or years...

I also don't think much of the ex because he was part of a lie that has hurt me more than i can say..... they had a chance to tell me but instead left me to stay up at night feeling paranoid/ crazy... i figured it out using intuition and eventually some snooping to confirm my suspicions.

We are going to see a psychiatrist or someone who can help us find our way - whether that's to stay married. stay married but be happy as poly. or separate amicably..

I'd be grateful for any thoughts or advice.

 

[Al99]

Hi Patrick - welcome to the Forum! There's a lot in your post - some of which would be of concern to many experienced poly folks - but I will leave that to the more experienced in our group. I would encourage you, however, to copy and paste this post to new post and place it in a new thread (Just click on the "new thread" button). Your post will get more notice that way - instead of "buried" as a reply to another person's intro. Also, feel free to post concerns, questions, and thoughts you may have in the Poly Relationships Corner as well. Best of luck as you begin this poly journey. Al

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi Patrick - welcome to the Forum! There's a lot in your post - some of which would be of concern to many experienced poly folks - but I will leave that to the more experienced in our group. I would encourage you, however, to copy and paste this post to new post and place it in a new thread (Just click on the "new thread" button). Your post will get more notice that way - instead of "buried" as a reply to another person's intro. Also, feel free to post concerns, questions, and thoughts you may have in the Poly Relationships Corner as well. Best of luck as you begin this poly journey. Al

I reported Patrick's post to a mod so they can move it to its own new thread.

 

[Magdlyn]

That was quick! Now your post is in the proper place.

I am sorry that your wife cheated and has secretly been visiting her ex bf. And you had to figure it out by staying up nights and ultimately snooping when she wouldn't come clean.

But now you seem to be adjusting. You're open to polyamory. You'd be willing to be mono, but since wife seems to want to have a bf, you're determined what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I hope your wife's interest in poly isn't for herself only. I hope she doesn't waver once you find a gf.

There is no guarantee. And you are aware you can separate if there is conflict around this in the future.

I wonder if you've read Opening Up and/or More Than Two? Besides reading around this board, and Franklin Veaux's morethantwo.com, those are good books to prepare for opening a formerly mono relationship ethically. Hopefully your wife is a reader too and will stop her sneaking around.

 

[Rockit49]

Welcome!

Welcome to the Forum, Patrick!
Readup and build yourself! Exercise, eat right, study!

It's better to think of it as Starting something new! And what you want from this?

Good luck

 

[sexyserb]

I don't want to be her ball and chain.. so i think i have no choice but to agree to poly

Sorry Patrick. I guess I will never understand the way some men think. If you're inclined to poly, great!! If not, you do have choices, but you are not obligated to anything that will make you miserable.

And of course there s the little detail that she has been cheating on you which is not what I would define as poly.

I wish you luck. Youve got a lot to sort out.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Patrick,

I guess my advice is to go ahead and try poly, but don't feel stuck to it if it doesn't work out. You mentioned that you are going to see a marriage counselor. That's a good call. It will help you figure out whether you want to keep the marriage together, and what you need to do to make that happen.

Keep us posted as your situation evolves. And we'll try to give you ongoing advice.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[WhatHappened]

She has secretly visited an ex - her first boyfriend a few times behind my back -... - i lost 100's of hours of sleep... i think i have no choice but to agree to poly - or just separate and reno the house into separate apartments...

You have a choice. Tell her no, you're not agreeing to this. If she wants to file, then the destruction of the family is on her.

I told her that i don't know how likely it is that i'll find a woman who is ok with sharing me....

I really not sure how she'll deal with it if i have a new gal who wants to sex me often..

Read enough posts on this forum and you'll find this is a strong pattern in the poly world. Women usually have a much easier time finding men to agree to sex/relationships with no strings attached, no escalator. Far fewer women are willing to agree to this.

Do enough reading in poly circles and you'll see a very strong pattern: wives usually find a problem with the girlfriend. It's never a problem with poly or jealousy or the wife, but invariably a problem with the specific girlfriend. Years of reading suggests to me that the husbands almost never find quite the right girlfriend and many give up and live mono while their wives have boyfriends. Or the marriage ends.

I guess my advice is to go ahead and try poly, but don't feel stuck to it if it doesn't work out.

After reading this advice, re-read your own words:

Maybe she'll realize that there is no going back once the marriage has been altered forever... i told her that i don't want to string a new woman along, and break the new woman's heart if our marriage / poly committment starts to flip flop after weeks, months or years...

We go ahead and try on a new suit. We go ahead and take a new car for a test drive. We go ahead, maybe, and even try living in a new state for awhile. We do not 'go ahead and try' other people. Because that's what poly is. It is, by definition, involving other people. And this attitude of just go ahead and try it (and never mind if another woman gets hurt in the process) is exactly why I call my blog Collateral Damage. Any other women who get their hearts involved...oh, well, collateral damage.

But now you seem to be adjusting. You're open to polyamory....
There is no guarantee. And you are aware you can separate if there is conflict around this in the future.

I'm not so sure, from reading, that Patrick is exactly 'open' to polyamory. "I have no choice" doesn't sound 'open' so much as 'resigned.'

Sure, if poly doesn't work out happily, you can just separate. Which will impact your kids. Sorry, yes, divorce does impact children. It hurts them. Sometimes divorce can't be avoided, but it hurts enough people that we should be doing our best to support and maintain marriages such that they don't end in divorce. At the very least for the sake of the kids. To just suggest, oh, well, separate [and never mind the impact on the kids] if poly doesn't work...is why I call my blog Collateral Damage. The kids are being treated as collateral damage.

 

[Marvelgirl]

I don't think you should agree to it if you don't want to. I've seen dozens and dozens of relationships over the past two decades where one spouse felt like shit about it but agreed just to keep the marriage intact.

I've yet to see one of those end well. It may be better to end it now then let it explode with resentment later down the road. You're allowed to have feelings and boundaries too. You don't have to accept being cheated on and forced into a relationship you aren't comfortable with.

 

[PurpleSun]

My wife of 20 years (we have kids too) now wants poly

She has secretly visited an ex - her first boyfriend a few times behind my back - says they didn't have sex - not sure if i believe her - she's not the most sexually driven person so she might be telling the truth.

but it's at least an emotional affair that was behind my back...

It has been a very hard year for me - i lost 100's of hours of sleep..

I don't want to be her ball and chain.. so i think i have no choice but to agree to poly - or just separate and reno the house into separate apartments...

I told her that i don't know how likely it is that i'll find a woman who is ok with sharing me.... but i do want to look for a lover if we are not going to be mono. part of me is wondering if she really just wants poly because she is so attracted to her ex.

Ironically she and i have sex way these days than most of the years that we were together. Not sure if she's just doing more out of guilt - as a consolation prize... although she does seem to be actually liking it more.
I have had more lovers than she has had in life. and i am definately more adventurous - although again i'd be happy with a mono relationship - accepting her AS IS - the whole package...

btw - i've always thought poly was possible - and not any less natural than any other approach - yet i'm also able to be happy only having sex with one woman as in my experience couples get pretty darned good at pleasuring each other....

ironically she is not as sexual as lovers that ive had..... yet i also would be ok because with all things factored in we do very well together with careers/kids intertwined..



and also i/we still plan to live together in the matrimonial home with our lovely kids..


I really not sure how she'll deal with it if i have a new gal who wants to sex me often..

I guess we'll find out...


Maybe she'll realize that there is no going back once the marriage has been altered forever... i told her that i don't want to string a new woman along, and break the new woman's heart if our marriage / poly committment starts to flip flop after weeks, months or years...

I also don't think much of the ex because he was part of a lie that has hurt me more than i can say..... they had a chance to tell me but instead left me to stay up at night feeling paranoid/ crazy... i figured it out using intuition and eventually some snooping to confirm my suspicions.

We are going to see a psychiatrist or someone who can help us find our way - whether that's to stay married. stay married but be happy as poly. or separate amicably..

I'd be grateful for any thoughts or advice.

Hey There,

Firstly, I want to say that I am sorry you are going through such a hard time. I am sure you'll find some insightful help here. Just my two cents worth..

I see some things that deeply concern me. Firstly, the emotional affair. There are MANY ways - even perhaps infinite - ways to do polyamory, but NONE of them involve cheating. Affairs, emotional or otherwise, are cheating.

I also think that you guys need to have a long, frank discussion about what being poly actually means for each of you individually, the two of you as a couple, as well as your family. That includes what your poly will look like - will you have triads? Will you each keep your partners separate? Will any of the partners ever move in if it gets serious enough? There are a plethora of questions to answer before getting started here. Also, you need to ask yourself if you are truly okay with this, or if you are just going along with it because you know you'll find yourself in divorce court if you don't. Doing this for the latter reason would concern me.

Also, 20 years is a long time. What brought this on? Is it just the ex boyfriend, or is your wife suddenly discovering a relationship orientation that she concealed from you for all this time?

The reason I ask the last question is that I tell people I am interested in that I am poly right away. The biggest problem I've run into with mono people is that they will often SAY they are okay with poly, but they really aren't.. They are so ingrained in the idea that monogamy is the only way to go that they start to believe, even if just subconsciously, that a poly person will magically one day be monogamous. To that end, you have to have a conversation with yourself: Can you stay married to a poly woman, and truly accept her as poly?

Anyway, I don't want to overwhelm you. These are just the thoughts running through my head after reading this...I hope some of it helps. Good luck.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle and that you have to deal with this.

Let me repeat back what I understand so far in my own words. You corrrect me, ok?

• You and wife have been together 20 years and have kids.

• She cheated. She started an emotional affair with an exBF and went to see him a few times behind your back. She says it wasn't sexual, but you aren't sure if you believe her.

• She says she wants Open relationship now.

At this time the plan is to see a counselor or similar to help you decide between

• stay married and be Closed
• stay married and practice poly.
• Or separate amicably.

I think that's a sound plan. But incomplete.

I'm not really hearing anything about asking counselor for help with healing from an affair. And if she's going to stop seeing the cheating partner. Is she? Is her wanting to Open so fast her way to "fast forward" and skip dealing with the cheating? Like if it ends up at Open, it automatically "erases" the affair? Or assuages her guilt or something?

I don't get why NOW when the relationship is on wonky footing is the best time to Open?

I'd be grateful for any thoughts or advice.

I don't know if this would help you any.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

If this relationship is unsteady, I would spend some time healing it and stabilizing it before trying to Open if the plan is to move forward together. The price of admission may be letting this exBF GO. Because you might be willing to try Open eventually, but not with him in the network.

If you aren't feeling it, it is ok for you to say "No. I don't want to do Open marriage with you." Let it move forward in another way -- with you two no longer romantic partners.

People can cheat on their mono agreements. You've experienced that already. People can also cheat on their poly agreements. It isn't like poly agreements are magically cheater proof or something. What stops people from cheating is not the "mono shape" or "poly shape" or whatever shape of the relationship. It's the inherent character of the person. So... I think whatever you guys decide to do? She could work to rebuild trust with you first rather than rush off to a new relationship model.

Trust has taken a ding.

If you don't want to join her in the model? You can say "no, thanks."

Maybe she'll realize that there is no going back once the marriage has been altered forever... i told her that i don't want to string a new woman along, and break the new woman's heart if our marriage / poly committment starts to flip flop after weeks, months or years...

I think the marriage is already altered by this affair.

So when you talk with the counselor, ask what to do about healing from cheating.

Whether or not you guys stay together romantically, you still have to coparent.

Galagirl

 

[Patrick]

a lot of details

Wow , I'm really touched and grateful to ALL* who have* read, considered and replied... Thanks!
many comments touched on key areas, and i realize that there are

A few details to* clarify..


A fact about my wife - she has never been one to have a strong desire for sex.. she's not asexual but she has always (until recently) thought of herself as non orgasmic....

Believe me, i was and will always be more than willing to try out new ways of making love and love pleasuring my partner as much as anything, and have had somewhat a variety of partners (long term as well as shorter term) - enough to understand the part about learning each lover's heart and body.. while she likes missionary only - i learned early in the marriage that she was indeed different*from most*women, and not that I ever gave up on trying to please her in bed, but I learned to value the love connection as the part that she was most touched by and never wanted to put out the idea that it should be her mission to pursue orgasms - especially since she 'doesn't give a shit' … She has many great areas and gifts and is a terrific Mom, and is amazing in her professional work..

And in more recent years - being now in mid life and valuing different things in life I stopped yearning to be with women who were more sexual etc.. using my chi more preiously in mid life sort of...

Interestingly, our sex now is better*than it was for most of the marriage! she definitely seems to get more intense pleasure now (at one point i* did wonder whether*she was perhaps out of guilt, acting it up a bit to compensate for the (I'll call it emotional) affair .. but i*actually think we just truly are enjoying our sex like never before - and the smiles and hugs the next morning are pretty nice and full of afterglow…
My libido is raging these days (in a healthy chi kind of way for a guy my age)- more than in my 40's. I'm also working out a lot, going back to University, doing tons of things professionally.. i do know that i have taken my pain and used it as fuel..

It's kind of ironic that*she is the far less sexual one - who wants poly - Although she hates that word as applied to what she wants - which is freedom to be spontaneous and mainly just make out with someone. although she had not seemed content with restricting extra marital sex in earlier conversations…. perhaps the ex bf thing more serious than she lets on / or planned on… I don't know really..
*i'm actually the one who craves*sex far more - and more often*- but would also be*happy just loving the*one i'm with (to quote John Lennon) - especially if it's her*- my*wife who i share our 3 kids*with !...

Also though, Part of me just loves the idea of having sex with other*women now.... the comments so far have made many great points - and not rushing into poly or whatever while things are healing finding there way is a better tempo.

i told her yesterday that i was chatting with a woman on fb and that i held back on flirting or making any moves - but that the thought crossing the back of my mind was something that made our plans of going into an open relationship seem a lot less merely theoretical.

Our dream once when while talking in afterglow optimism state after lovemaking was : to be poly (she strongly prefers the terms open or free), in the matrimonial home, with kids ….. she even said something once about her imagining that she would happily take another room at bedtime if a situation arose that i had someone over.. that though CLEARLY is NOT something she wants and she doesn't really remember saying that. no problem with her not feeling that way now that she thinks more soberly about it.. this is new terrain! that wasn't something that i was looking for anyway… while such a take on very deverse/active poly is great for some - she and I are entering mid life with way more emphasis and a higher value on our kids, careers, goals..

Today we wondered if we actually are quite capable of working things out without seeking counselling… we do seem to be able to talk listen well.. although it is evolving. i told her i also wondered if counselling may not be essential / needed and that i thought our talks/ ideas have been evolving openly, honestly, constructively with increased nuance and detail… but also said that there is a great chance that an experienced pro would help us see ourselves better and work things forward better..

While in my 50's now I'm full of a courage to live life not fear change
and again, yes i wonder/worry that SHE might get jealous when i (if I) find a gal who wants me sexually ...* she wondered out loud today that she wants to remain married and maybe doesn't want this . perhaps me sharing my feeling about holding back on making moves while chatting on facebook with a nice woman amade her think more..about her upholding her side of things if we move to an open relationship. all good stuff to be seeing and not glossing over..

i truly*worry that i may drag a new woman into disappointment...
i really, really want to*be*clear with any new gal, I don't want to omit, lie or hurt anyone - incl myself… or my wife - perhaps she could lose the love of her life in me because of hasty mid life choices… although i really want to love her as a life partner until death - even if we stopped being romantically conncected/ sharing a bed/ having sex etc….

My wife may have - if we don't rush into things - a chance to feel this out…. she may realize that she wants to be mono again - i think the judgemental pov that society has for polys is not any better in reverse - meaning that i wouldn't agree mono is always a cop out away from our true nature etc…. - both can be awesome. both are limitless in terms of building the richness….. i do find i love my wife more every day - this is a wisdom / ability that i've acquired later in life. realizing that in all walks of life we get back what we put in. My

Officially yesterday we were in an open marriage now (we did flip flop a couple of times within*24 hour periods, but then we did talk things through and I think for me it's either : separate apartments in the*matrimonial home,
or try out poly...

Today she said that she's not sure about what she wants and that she wants to remain married to me.

Again. i'm curious if there are suggestions about the types (categorically speaking - or* otherwise) of*counsellors/psychiatrists*who would be good for my wife and I -*someone*who neither tries to preserve the marriage nor push*any other agenda - but just help us*find our way.. and offer relevant*tools and*. wisdom* thanks to the mod i think it was*who already*gave*me*book*titles - this*forum is*looking wonderful - THANKS!


I also get paranoid in thinking that maybe*he's just better, bigger etc.... all that male ego stuff which Im not impermeable to thinking..* but then, i do know her really well. and a fact about her is that she is impulsive yet generally in life has been happy with meeting a guy and just kissing for most of her life - this might sound to many like wishful thinking or that i'm deluded.. but it actually is her character..

Sometimes lately it almost* felt*like*we*were*having*great break up sex...* but i think it's*actually just*that*we realize*that we love*each other* deeply after*all these years ( and there*at least 12 years*that*were quite stagnant a lot of the time..) Also recent heart to heart conversations and tears probably charged our relationship..
----------------------------------------------

- not that it matters ultimately but i'm not* sure if* she did have* sex.* emotional affair yes.... i sense that she really*loves me*and really*does* want to be with me.... but*would like to not be a cheater..

--as*far as me*going along*with the poly idea because i have* no* choice - good* point. the nuance* there though is that - i recognize that she feels the*way*she feels and don't*wish to blame her.

but back on point..* i actually love the idea of poly... i don't*like to stack* mono* against* poly. both* can be great or* lousy or* lots of* combinations of good and bad.* when i say i could have been happy* mono* it's true* . but a bit of* back ground on me. as a young adult* i started of philisophically believing in poly and not being jealous at the idea of poly.. WHile with my first long term gf , there was in*agreement in theory... and* we had a*great*10 years* together. things*got vague - (not to make* excuses*but we*were in our*twenties) although it was mostly mono and*we had great*sex, still i was compelled to meet new lovers..* was open about it mostly but then*became*less truthful - which i regret deeply still.. ( i think that gradual eroding of honesty is a pattern that many*may*recognize as*not uncommon...


It's hard to find time to write , collect my thoughts and write cohesively . there are a lot of great experienced minds her. again thank you kind folks,

Patrick

 

[Patrick]

Yesterday's impression that my wife was changign her mind about opening the marriage was clarified today by a much clearer talk.


In fact, she*just was apprehensive about new partners being introduced into the matrimonial home setting - which neither of us want anyway !

So we are still on the same page about giving each other our blessings to date and open up the marriage as long as the matrimonial home is a solid number 1. Our family 3 kids one a teen two pre teen is doing well and we like the way it is..

I love the idea of having nothing to hide and meeting a gal who is at a stage of life herself where she would understand and feel it easy to support the love me and my wife have for our kids/home etc. and the fact that, come what may my wife and I have gone through 20 years together raising kids and living a full life and would like to be able to hold hands and still support each other as husband and wife in a sense when we are old .

I will give her blessings on meeting guys. even if it is the ex that she has had the emotional affair with... I may never wanna get really close to the guy but don't wish to cast any vibes on her and him..

 

[Magdlyn]

Wow, I'm really touched and grateful to ALL who have read, considered and replied... Thanks!

Many comments touched on key areas, and I realize that there are a few details to clarify.

A fact about my wife: she has never been one to have a strong desire for sex. She's not asexual, but she has always (until recently) thought of herself as non-orgasmic.

Believe me, I was and will always be more than willing to try out new ways of making love. I love pleasuring my partner as much as anything, and have had somewhat of a variety of partners (long term as well as shorter term), enough to understand the part about learning each lover's heart and body.

She likes missionary sex only. I learned early in the marriage that she was indeed different from most women. Not that I ever gave up on trying to please her in bed, but I learned to value the love connection as the part that she was most touched by, and never wanted to put out the idea that it should be her mission to pursue orgasms, especially since she "doesn't give a shit."

She has many great areas and gifts, and is a terrific mom, and is amazing in her professional work.

In more recent years, being now in mid-life and valuing different things, I stopped yearning to be with women who were more sexual, using my chi more in mid-life than previously, sort of.

Interestingly, our sex now is better than it was for most of the marriage! She definitely seems to get more intense pleasure now. At one point I did wonder whether she was, perhaps out of guilt, acting it up a bit to compensate for the [I'll call it emotional] affair. But I actually think we just truly are enjoying our sex like never before - and the smiles and hugs the next morning are pretty nice and full of afterglow.

My libido is raging these days (in a healthy chi kind of way for a guy my age), more than in my 40's. I'm also working out a lot, going back to University, doing tons of things professionally.

I do know that I have taken my pain and used it as fuel.

It's kind of ironic that she is the far less sexual one, who wants poly. (Although she hates that word as applied to what she wants-- which is freedom to be spontaneous and mainly just make out with someone.) Although she had not seemed content with restricting extramarital sex in earlier conversations... Perhaps the ex bf thing is more serious than she lets on or planned on. I don't know really.

I'm actually the one who craves sex far more, and more often, but would also be happy just loving the one I'm with (to quote John Lennon), especially if it's her, my wife who I share our 3 kids with!

Also though, part of me just loves the idea of having sex with other women now... The comments so far have made many great points. And not rushing into poly or whatever while things are healing and finding their way, is a better tempo.

I told her yesterday that I was chatting with a woman on Facebook, and that I held back on flirting or making any moves, but that the thought crossing the back of my mind was something that made our plans of going into an open relationship seem a lot less merely theoretical.

Our dream once when while talking in afterglow optimism state after lovemaking was: to be poly (she strongly prefers the terms open or free), in the matrimonial home, with kids. She even said something once about her imagining that she would happily take another room at bedtime if a situation arose that I had someone over. That though CLEARLY is NOT something she wants now, and she doesn't really remember saying that. No problem with her not feeling that way, now that she thinks more soberly about it. This is new terrain! That wasn't something that I was looking for anyway. While such a take on very diverse/active poly is great for some, she and I are entering mid-life with way more emphasis and a higher value on our kids, careers and goals.

Today we wondered if we actually are quite capable of working things out without seeking counselling. We do seem to be able to talk and listen well, although it is evolving. I told her I also wondered if counselling may not be essential/needed, and that I thought our talks/ideas have been evolving openly, honestly, constructively with increased nuance and detail. But I also said that there is a great chance that an experienced pro would help us see ourselves better and work things forward better.

In my 50's now I'm full of a courage to live life, not fear change. Yet
again, yes, I wonder/worry that SHE might get jealous when I (if I) find a gal who wants me sexually. She wondered out loud today that she wants to remain married and maybe doesn't want this. Perhaps me sharing my choice to hold back making moves while chatting on Facebook with a nice woman made her think more about her upholding her side of things if we move to an open relationship. All good stuff to be seeing and not glossing over.

I truly worry that I may drag a new woman into disappointment. I really, really want to be clear with any new gal. I don't want to omit anything, lie to, or hurt anyone, including myself or my wife.

Perhaps she could lose the love of her life in me because of hasty mid-life choices. But I really want to love her as a life partner until death, even if we stopped being romantically connected/sharing a bed/having sex etc.

My wife may have, if we don't rush into things, a chance to feel this out. She may realize that she wants to be mono again. I think the judgmental POV that society has for polys is not any better in reverse-- meaning that I wouldn't agree mono is always a cop out away from our true nature. Both can be awesome. Both are limitless in terms of building the richness.

I do find I love my wife more every day. This is a wisdom or ability that I've acquired later in life: realizing that in all walks of life we get back what we put in.

Officially as of yesterday, we are in an open marriage now. We did flip-flop a couple of times within 24 hour periods, but then we talked things through and I think for me it's either: separate apartments in the matrimonial home,
or try out poly.

Today she said that she's not sure about what she wants, and that she wants to remain married to me.

I'm curious if there are suggestions about the types (categorically speaking or otherwise) of counselors/psychiatrists who would be good for my wife and me. Someone who neither tries to preserve the marriage, or push any other agenda, but just help us find our way, and offer relevant tools and wisdom.

Thanks to the mod, I think it was, who already gave me book titles! This forum is looking wonderful-- THANKS!


I also get paranoid in thinking that maybe he's just better, bigger etc... all that male ego stuff about which I'm not immune to thinking. But then, I do know her really well. And a fact about her is that she is impulsive, yet generally has been happy with meeting a guy and just kissing, for most of her life. This might sound to many like wishful thinking, or that I'm deluded, but it actually is her character.

Sometimes lately it almost felt like we were having great break up sex. But I think it's actually just that we realize that we love each other deeply after all these years (and there were at least 12 years that were quite stagnant a lot of the time). Also recent heart to heart conversations and tears probably charged our relationship.

Not that it matters ultimately, but I'm not sure if she did have sex. Emotional affair, yes. I sense that she really loves me and really does want to be with me, and would like to not be a cheater.

As far as me going along with the poly idea because i have no choice: good point. The nuance there though is that: I recognize that she feels the way she feels, and I don't wish to blame her.

But back on point, I actually love the idea of poly. I don't like to stack mono against poly. Both can be great or lousy, or lots of combinations of good and bad. When I say I could have been happy mono, it's true.

A bit of back ground on me as a young adult-- I started out philosophically believing in poly, and not being jealous at the idea of poly. While with my first long term gf, there was an agreement in theory, and we had a great 10 years together, things got... vague. (Not to make excuses, but we were in our twenties.) Although it was mostly mono, and we had great sex, still I was compelled to meet new lovers. I was open about it mostly, but then became less truthful, which I regret deeply still. (I think that gradual eroding of honesty is a pattern that many may recognize as not uncommon.)

It's hard to find time to write, collect my thoughts, and write cohesively. There are a lot of great experienced minds here. Again thank you, kind folks,

Patrick

Glad you came back Patrick. I took the liberty of editing your post a little to make it easier to read. For some reason you seemed to have a lot of unnecessary asterisks!

You remind me of our member Al99. Check out his thread called Accidentally Poly. He went through a lot of the same considerations you did when faced with his wife falling for another guy, actually an ex bf, like your wife, did, a rekindling of an old flame. Al posted in on this thread earlier on.

BTW, it was I who recommended the books and asked a mod to move your thread. I'm not a mod, just a long time member.

Also, BTW, it was Stephen Stills, not Lennon, who wrote and sang Love the One You're With.

 

[Magdlyn]

Yesterday's impression that my wife was changing her mind about opening the marriage was clarified today by a much clearer talk. She was just apprehensive about new partners being introduced into the matrimonial home setting, which neither of us want anyway!

So we are still on the same page about giving each other our blessings to date and open up the marriage, as long as the matrimonial home is a solid number 1. Our family is doing well (one teenager, 2 preteens) and we like the way it is.

Many poly people do not host other lovers in the matrimonial home. And others love to do so! It's funny, in my home, which I share with my nesting partner of 9 years, I often host my boyfriends, whereas, her boyfriends always want her to go to their homes. But she dates Master/Dom types, who seem to like their own places for the power exchange stuff. My bfs tend to be cuddly homebody types who love my comfy house and cuddling and sexing and watching movies, playing board games, playing their guitars or listening to music, cooking. They usually become good friends with my nesting partner. She also, has no issue hearing and occasionally seeing me have sex with a guy. It makes her happy to hear and see me happy.

I love the idea of having nothing to hide. Meeting a gal who is at a stage of life herself where she would understand and feel it easy to support the love my wife and I have for our kids, home, etc., and the fact that, come what may, my wife and I have gone through 20 years together raising kids and living a full life, and would like to be able to hold hands and still support each other as husband and wife when we are old.

I will give her blessings on meeting guys, even if it is the ex that she has had the emotional affair with. I may never wanna get really close to the guy but don't wish to cast any vibes on her and him.

That sounds good. She is lucky you are so open-minded and sensible.

Polyamory often starts in middle life. Life begins at 40? I think that is when our true personality starts to develop. So much of our 20s and 30s it is career, career, kids, kids. Finally there starts to be a window opening that reveals the question, but what about my fulfillment as ME? Not just a bread winner, not just a breeder, but my intrinsic value as an individual.

It is interesting you feel you wife has a low libido, is not orgasmic, wants only the most basic of missionary sex, yet she was the one looking outside the marriage for more. She may start to blossom into a more sexual woman. You never know. I didn't have a low libido before peri-menopause, yet my libido really exploded in my early 40s as I became more aware and honest about who I really am. Unfortunately, my ex husband wasn't able to successfully do poly with me, so we split. But my life since our separation/divorce has been a true adventure of self discovery. A whole new chapter. I am 62 now so it's been a complicated 20 year journey.

Your wife may be grey sexual, demi sexual... time will tell.

I wish you well in finding another significant other in time, who respects and understands your bond with your wife, and has no wish to "cowgirl" you away (rope you off from your herd).

 

[WhatHappened]

I love the idea of having nothing to hide and meeting a gal who is at a stage of life herself where she would understand and feel it easy to support the love me and my wife have for our kids/home etc. and the fact that, come what may my wife and I have gone through 20 years together raising kids and living a full life and would like to be able to hold hands and still support each other as husband and wife in a sense when we are old .

What exactly does this mean? What does this 'support' from the other woman look like? Does this mean she is content to live in her own home, take care of herself by herself, while 'supporting' your home and family?

By 'come what may....' are you saying that this hypothetical woman will understand that your wife always comes first, but she will joyously always be there for you, loving you, and waiting for the moments you have time for her?

Or are you suggesting that this woman would be your priority...but still understand that you would love and spend a great deal of time with your wife?

Would this woman ever have the option of living with you, living with you and your wife, living with only you while you continue to see your wife who might someday live elsewhere?

What exactly are you envisioning? What stage of life would this be for this 'gal?'

 

[Magdlyn]

What exactly does this mean? What does this 'support' from the other woman look like? Does this mean she is content to live in her own home, take care of herself by herself, while 'supporting' your home and family?

Your questions seem kind of aggressive to a person who has barely begun to envision what form polyamory might take for him and his wife.

By 'come what may....' are you saying that this hypothetical woman will understand that your wife always comes first, but she will joyously always be there for you, loving you, and waiting for the moments you have time for her?

Or are you suggesting that this woman would be your priority...but still understand that you would love and spend a great deal of time with your wife?

Would this woman ever have the option of living with you, living with you and your wife, living with only you while you continue to see your wife who might someday live elsewhere?

What exactly are you envisioning? What stage of life would this be for this 'gal?'

He probably doesn't really know the answers to these questions yet. Maybe he'll take them as food for thought. He's got impressionable teens on his hands and probably doesn't want a live in lover until much later, if ever.

In my case (and with no kids in the house), lovers are welcome in our home, but Pixie and I don't want a lover living with us full time. A few days is about all she can take of my boyfriend visiting. I also don't want a full time live in lover besides her.

I am 22 years older than Pixie and I envision there to be a time when I am gone, and she starts living with her other lover.

We all know there are many forms poly can take. Sometimes a hinge in a V has 2 separate lovers who may never meet. Sometimes the lovers meet casually but don't do much more than say hi in passing. Sometimes the hinge goes back and forth between her lovers' homes, and considers both homes hers as well. Sometimes (like in my case) a lover will come spend a few hours, or one or 2 or maybe 3 overnights tops, and then leave. And sometimes the entire V will live together. Sometimes the 2 arms of the V will become attracted to each other and start a FWB thing. Sometimes the V will all become roommates. Sometimes (rarely) the V will morph into a triad.

Quite often, one of the hinges of the V will be married or partnered with someone else and have no desire to move in with their other lover.

And so on and so forth.

 

[Patrick]

What exactly does this mean? What does this 'support' from the other woman look like? Does this mean she is content to live in her own home, take care of herself by herself, while 'supporting' your home and family?

By 'come what may....' are you saying that this hypothetical woman will understand that your wife always comes first, but she will joyously always be there for you, loving you, and waiting for the moments you have time for her?

Or are you suggesting that this woman would be your priority...but still understand that you would love and spend a great deal of time with your wife?

Would this woman ever have the option of living with you, living with you and your wife, living with only you while you continue to see your wife who might someday live elsewhere?

What exactly are you envisioning? What stage of life would this be for this 'gal?'

i told my wife that i may find a lover who is a great fit but not poly.. but that living under the same roof could become a thing if the relationship gets that deep

(reno the house into separate apts. ) (kids could come and go about the whole house)

i could hold out for a poly lover,
but i don't need to be mono poly or whatever...

i know i need at least these 2 things:

to love my kids support the matrimonial home, university funds, and always love and honour the darling wife i love who pushed out our 3 darling pups in this very house until one of us dies.

to have a woman who loves having sex with me and that that sex life is based on true caring about the person 24/7 until old age..

 

[Patrick]

thanks for the tough questions

i love you folks for sharing your perspectives and experience and diversity with me and readers.

tough questions awesome!
aggressive tone - i'm ok with.. some shit's important - thanks for those questions.

but i also appreciate being defended.

But the great john coltrane said 'go to learning humbly' .. so i'm humbled by new wisdom.

likewise i do appreciate being defended also, as i take pride and honor in trying to look at how my actions in life affect others.

i would balance the coltrane quote with the concept that sometimes a naive newbie brings wisdom from outside the known schools of thought, or simply through his childlike astuteness which we tend to lose after acquiring experience/expertise expertise in an area.

 

[WhatHappened]

Your questions seem kind of aggressive to a person who has barely begun to envision what form polyamory might take for him and his wife.
....
He probably doesn't really know the answers to these questions yet. Maybe he'll take them as food for thought.

There's no reason my questions should be perceived as aggressive. They are food for thought, and vitally important questions that should be considered before bringing other people into this.

Maybe the answers to these questions are uncomfortable in revealing that this may not be a great deal for Hypothetical Gal--and thus it's easier to attack me as being aggressive than to face that discomfort and think more deeply about the direction that will be taken.

He's got impressionable teens on his hands and probably doesn't want a live in lover until much later, if ever.

We all know there are many forms poly can take...

And this is exactly what people should be thinking about before inviting others into this situation. What do they want their poly to look like and how is that going to impact the people they bring into their lives?

How is it going to feel to the woman/women Patrick imagines bringing into his life?

When we set out to build a house, we do it with forethought and planning so it doesn't fall down and hurt someone. There is nothing aggressive about suggesting we live our lives with the same forethought, considering how our actions impact others, considering if our ideas are likely to work as we expect or hope they might.

i told my wife that i may find a lover who is a great fit but not poly.. but that living under the same roof could become a thing if the relationship gets that deep ....

Is your wife open to that?

i know i need at least these 2 things:

[1] to love my kids support the matrimonial home, university funds, and always love and honour the darling wife i love who pushed out our 3 darling pups in this very house until one of us dies.

[2] to have a woman who loves having sex with me and that that sex life is based on true caring about the person 24/7 until old age..

When you say you need two things, does number 1 refer to your own need for yourself to love your kids, etc, or are you saying what you need from Hypothetical Gal is a woman who is going to love your kids, support the matrimonial home, etc?

My guess is you mean you yourself intend to fulfill your commitments and responsibilities to your wife and children until death do us part and when you find Hypothetical Gal you will also be committed to her until death do you part.

Do you envision perhaps four of you growing old together in your family home? Yourself, a girlfriend, your wife, and her boyfriend?