Need some reasonable advice

[lookinforanswers]

My husband and I are swingers and we met my husbands girlfriend at a swinger party a year and a half ago. After a few months my husband and her fell in love and he asked me if I would be ok with him seeing her as his girlfriend knowing hes in love with her. Her husband and I both said yes. I am not poly and I didn't know the questions to ask or the things to think about so I just went into it blind.

About 8 months ago my feelings on everything changed. I decided I didn't want to share my husband anymore. I want him back. I cant stand the thought of sharing his heart and love with someone else. Swinging is one thing without emotions but them being so deep in love is really starting to hurt me and affect our marriage. Its partly my fault he said for accepting her into our life and I will agree to that statement. Every time she is around now I end up crying. I feel replaced. I don't feel like we just belong to each other. I hurt so deeply I cant even explain how sad I feel. I feel like I screwed up our marriage by allowing this and some people who are poly said you cant reasonably ask him after a year and a half to just give her up because they are in love and other non poly people say divorce is the answer. if I ask them to break up he will resent me forever and she (who is also my closest friend) will also resent me and hate me. If she breaks up with him because she doesn't want to strain our marriage he will still resent me. I know he loves me and I love him more than anything but they make each other very happy. He said he has enough love to share. He is a very passionate person and i know being without her would crush him, but we have been married 18 years and pretty much have been inseparable our entire marriage except for when we are at work. Now I have to share his time, his love and his body (even though in reality its not very much time at all each month). I just cant get past the pain, jealousy, sadness, loneliness, loss, the anger because I really thought he would immediately say I cant let our marriage suffer I will leave her for you. I don't know what its like to be poly . I tried finding a boyfriend and realized my heart is not into it and it would just be to kill time while I wait for my husband to be done with his date. Am I being unreasonable wishing that something breaks them up (not me) Should I just suck it up and deal with being sad all the time or should I just leave?

 

[River]

Apart from his having a girlfriend and the things related to that, like jealousy, how is your relationship with him? Is he loving and attentive when he is with you? Do you feel genuinely loved by him? Is your communication basically good? Do you spend quality time together?

 

[lookinforanswers]

Yes to all of it. We have a wonderful relationship.

 

[River]

Yes to all of it. We have a wonderful relationship.

Then, given all you have said about not wanting to be the cause of the ruin of this other relationship he has, I'd encourage you to accept the fact that he has another person in his life whom he loves. I'd encourage you to explore ways of appreciating him just as he is, including the fact that he has this other person in his life (whom, you said, you also care a lot for).

The fear and jealousy you're feeling now is likely to pass if you hang in there and focus on the love you have. It may take some work and time, though. You're in a good place to look for support -- but there's no substitute, I think, for accepting and supportive face-to-face support, whether it be a counselor or a friend.

I've never had to deal with jealousy in myself in a context like yours, so I don't know much about it. But there are many articles on the web which you may find useful. There are even books which may be useful.

Check out this.:

https://www.morethantwo.com/jealousy-insecurity.html

And use your search engine and the terms [jealousy polyamory]. Maybe you'll find some useful insight?

But know you are very fortunate to be in a strong, loving, supportive partnership. Many don't have that!

 

[River]

Maybe this...?

Advice From a Polyamory Coach on Dealing With Relationship Jealousy
By Bahar Gholipour
https://www.thecut.com/2018/03/advice-from-a-polyamory-coach-on-dealing-with-jealousy.html

 

[kdt26417]

Hello lookinforanswers,

It sounds like you need your husband to spontaneously decide on his own to break up with his girlfriend. This would be a great solution, but by definition it would have to happen without your input, there is nothing you can do to make it happen. So you will have to just sit there, waiting and hoping, for how long? the rest of your life, maybe. And you say you are sad all the time. You could have the best marriage in the world and it still wouldn't do you any good if you are sad all the time. I don't want to tell you to divorce him, but about the only other thing I could suggest is to give the problem a fixed amount of time, say a year, and wait to see if he leaves her or if you start feeling better before that year is up. If things have improved by then great, give it another year, but if they haven't improved, maybe it is time to start thinking about divorce. It saddens me to say that to you, but I can't think of what else to suggest.

Of course you could just resolve that you'll wait the rest of your life if it takes that long, even if you continue to feel sad all the time for the rest of your life. That is your right, to make that decision, it's not up to me to tell you not to do it. But I could not in good conscience tell you to do it. Life is too short and what I believe is that we only get one.

I hope your husband will just leave her. That would be by far the best solution.

With sympathy,
Kevin T.

 

[River]

I hope your husband will just leave her. That would be by far the best solution.

Kevin, you sound pretty skeptical about the possibility of folks getting past jealousy and possessiveness.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you are struggling.

Am I being unreasonable wishing that something breaks them up (not me)

I think that is natural to feel. You are grieving a loss and wishing you weren't having to grieve and that things could "go back to before."

Should I just suck it up and deal with being sad all the time or should I just leave?

I think you could figure out where the sad if coming from and if it is something that will fade in time or if you are doing a relationship model (poly) that is NOT for you. Like square peg/round hole.

And you could refrain in future from jumping into things blind. That doesn't serve you well. and you probably do not want more "Ugh, I jumped in blind!" stress again.

In terms of fixing THIS one...

I guess what you could do is do all the catch up stuff -- read about poly and what it takes. And then gauge if you are willing and able to do it. Like you don't necessarily have to poly date to find a BF, but you ARE inside a poly network now. You have to know you can do that without it causing you damage.

Here are some links:

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html
http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles
https://www.morethantwo.com/

It is not fair to ask him to break up with his GF (who is also your friend) any more than it is fair for the GF to ask him to break up with you.

BUT... you could ask him if he would agree to "no new people." At least then the poly network doesn't get bigger while you are trying to get your bearings and to the catch up work. Like THIS struggle is already enough with 4 people in the network. The two married couples and then your husband dating the other wife (your friend/his GF). Having to share him with even MORE partners would be piling on MORE changes and maybe making it harder/worse.

Then it's on you to figure out what you can and cannot do. After doing some catch up reading on poly, and reflecting on what it is you want in life? You have to decide:

A) If after serious contemplation you KNOW don't want to participate in a poly network at all? You tell them you need to bow out and stop participating in a poly thing. He may or may not also bow out. But YOU could bow out so you are free FROM the poly things you do not want. If that means separation or divorce because he wants to be free TO keep on pursuing poly -- well you do what you have to do.

B)If after contemplation you find you are willing to participate in it? You are willing to learn to share your husband's time and attention? Then you do that.

And perhaps ask for accommodations. Like not telling you TMI things, making sure you ask he really does give you what you need for time and attention as a partner and not be all distracted with the new partner and NRE and giving your side of the V a lick and promise but nothing of substance.

If it still bothers you to share a spouse's attention this badly after X time (A year? 2 years?) Then you accept this is not for you after all. And go back to choice A and bow out.

I wonder though... what happened 8 months ago? Was there a percipitating event?

we have been married 18 years and pretty much have been inseparable our entire marriage except for when we are at work

Was that a healthy way of going? Joined at the hip so much?

Now I have to share his time, his love and his body (even though in reality its not very much time at all each month). I just cant get past the pain, jealousy, sadness, loneliness, loss, the anger because I really thought he would immediately say I cant let our marriage suffer I will leave her for you.

I also wonder... if you are in the habit of him being your "go to" person for emotional support, how he is supporting you as you go through these feelings? Have you asked for his help?

If she's your closest friend, have you asked for her for any help? People usually ask their friends for help.

What are you doing for helping yourself through grief? You sound like you are grieving for the old model.

Maybe their grief for the old model is not showing like yours because its balanced out with joy from the new relationship.

How's the other husband holding up with the changes?

Galagirl

 

[Arius]

I think reading Gala's basic poly resources is a great starting place.

One question I have is - why do you feel that you need to be with your husband ALL THE TIME?

That's actually a great way to suffocate a relationship. Intimacy tends to thrive when couples have projects going on outside of the marriage. This allows you time to miss each other and also helps you bring new interesting experiences and stories into your relationship. Your husband's "project" is his girlfriend. What do you want YOUR project to be?

It could be anything - roller derby, political engagement, writing a novel, hiking...

I'm guessing there's something missing in your life, since you're not happy. And you want the solution to be your husband. But that solution is off the table. So what's missing, and how else can you get that need met?

 

[Magdlyn]

My husband and I are swingers and we met my husbands girlfriend at a swinger party a year and a half ago. After a few months my husband and her fell in love and he asked me if I would be ok with him seeing her as his girlfriend knowing hes in love with her.

So after some time practicing swinging, one of you fell in love with a sex partner. How long were you swinging together? Don't swingers usually put limits on engagements with others to prevent feelings? Don't swingers know that sex can and usually does produce hormones, most of which lead to attachment, infatuation, obsession...? And so they do things to prevent this, to protect their marriage: perhaps no eye gazing, limited talking, no cuddling after orgasms. Were you doing these things and feelings still ensued for your h?

Her husband and I both said yes. I am not poly and I didn't know the questions to ask or the things to think about so I just went into it blind.

No, you weren't poly, but it sounds like you also went into swinging blind since you weren't aware sex and hanging out can lead to infatuation and even love. I'm not scolding you, personally. You AND your husband both jumped into open marriage kind of willy nilly. I don't think he should blame you for saying Yes to him dating his swinging partner... you both acted rashly and without INFORMED consent and safeguards to protect your very tight conventional marriage (spending all time not at work together, "belonging" to each other).

We say here that polyamory isn't healthy unless there is a joyous yes from everyone. And there won't be joy if there is jealousy, devastating feelings of loss, etc. Is your husband at all compassionate when you're sobbing uncontrollably every time his gf comes over?

About 8 months ago my feelings on everything changed.

I'm also curious why it changed. You were OK with it before, and now you've been grieving for months. What happened?

I decided I didn't want to share my husband anymore. I want him back. I cant stand the thought of sharing his heart and love with someone else. Swinging is one thing, without emotions, but them being so deep in love is really starting to hurt me and affect our marriage. Its partly my fault he said, for accepting her into our life, and I will agree to that statement.

Only partly your fault, yes. How does he handle his responsibility for changing the boundaries of your marriage? Is he willing to do couples counseling for example? Or is he just enjoying being the center of attention and blowing you off?

Every time she is around now I end up crying. I feel replaced. I don't feel like we just belong to each other. I hurt so deeply I cant even explain how sad I feel. I feel like I screwed up our marriage by allowing this and some people who are poly said you cant reasonably ask him after a year and a half to just give her up because they are in love and other non poly people say divorce is the answer.

if I ask them to break up he will resent me forever and she (who is also my closest friend) will also resent me and hate me. If she breaks up with him because she doesn't want to strain our marriage he will still resent me. I know he loves me and I love him more than anything but they make each other very happy.

He said he has enough love to share. He is a very passionate person and i know being without her would crush him, but we have been married 18 years and pretty much have been inseparable our entire marriage except for when we are at work. Now I have to share his time, his love and his body (even though in reality its not very much time at all each month). I just cant get past the pain, jealousy, sadness, loneliness, loss, the anger because I really thought he would immediately say I cant let our marriage suffer. I will leave her for you.

I don't know what its like to be poly . I tried finding a boyfriend and realized my heart is not into it and it would just be to kill time while I wait for my husband to be done with his date.

Am I being unreasonable wishing that something breaks them up (not me)? Should I just suck it up and deal with being sad all the time or should I just leave?

I went through something similar when my ex husband and I first tried poly. I was unprepared for the new relationship energy he felt for his gf, and she for him. After just a few weeks they told me they were soul mates. I also grieved the loss of our former relationship model. I tried to such it up for 6 months. But I was so thrown by his new feelings for another. I had read one book available back then, The Ethical Slut. But it wasn't enough. It didn't prepare me. I also didnt have it in me to date. His gf was supposed to be our shared gf but she decided she wasn't interested in me as more than a friend.

Unlike you, my ex and I had put a veto arrangement in place. So I used my veto. It was pointless. He did resent me ever after. We even did a year of couple's counseling and it wasn't enough to repair things. He was still in love with her and vice versa.

We struggled on, raising our kids, distant from each other. Eventually I gave it one last shot and bent over backwards to charm him back to me. It only partially worked. I got healthy enough and cared enough for myself to finally break up. It took 10 years. I should have left sooner. I left and soon found a partner who is a much better fit for me than he ever was. We had other incompatibilities... He and his gf got together soon after he and I separated. They are better for each other. I'd say I matured and outgrew him, outgrew the type of marriage we'd had. I'm better off.

If your h is so cold to you about your deep grief, I'd suggest he isn't a healthy match for you anymore. Also, your friend who is his gf isn't healthy for you to be around either.

You know you can never regain what you once had with your husband, a one on one entangled (possibly overly entangled) mono relationship. You have a whole new marriage now. Will you learn to accept it? Maybe with counseling? Will your husband have compassion that your experience right now is devastating while his is full of joy, NRE sex, and a wife at home to be his companion when he isn't with the new and shiny?

Or will you split and gain a fresh slate, a new lease on life, a new adventure, like I did?

 

[Marcus]

I feel like I screwed up our marriage by allowing this

That cucumber was already a pickle. I know that, looking back, it seems like that was a defining moment and that would have been the perfect time to pump the breaks if you had it to do all over again. However, the magic moment to keep this from happening occurred long before you two had this conversation about it.

If you had answered his question with a "No, dear husband, love oh love of my life, I cannot grant your request to bang your new girlfriend in the spirit of precious love", there would have been one of two results.

1. He would have banged her behind your back (complete with the "love" magic). This would have torn a rift in your marriage via the "betrayal" path.
2. He would have complied with your decision. This would have torn a rift in your marriage via the "resentment" path.​

You are correct that there was a decision to be made at this moment, but it is the same decision you are trying to make now.

Am I being unreasonable wishing that something breaks them up (not me).

It's wishing misery on someone else to spare you your own misery. That's pretty high octane selfish, yeah. I don't know if that's a bad thing or not, but it certainly isn't that "unconditional love" people are fond of flaunting.

Regardless, the more important point about this "wish" is that it would simply grant you the ability to get what you want without ever needing to examine your feelings or have a chance to actually grow.

Should I just suck it up and deal with being sad all the time or should I just leave?

If these are your only options, I should think leaving would be a more appropriate answer. I don't know why these would be your only options though.

Have you considered investigating your feelings? Learning a new way to look at how "love" needs to be expressed or restricted? You are in a spot that, if you only use the tools you currently have, it is highly unlikely that you will get what you want (or any version of it).

I suggest taking a look at your view of what a relationship needs to be. Decide if that is what you really feel, or if it is just what you've always done. Once that is discovered, make your decision to stay or go.

 

[BelleRose]

I really do empathize with your situation.

I've been under the impression that with swinging, there is only one true relationship, and any and all other partners are casual. That certain things, like love, are reserved for the primary relationship alone. Given that this has changed in your relationship, especially after 18 years with that assurance that you and your husband belonged to each other, that you were his only love, I can absolutely understand feeling devastated by suddenly witnessing him loving someone new. Especially when, a year and a half in, they are probably still in a place of NRE and quite infatuated with each other.

I understand feeling like you have to either suck it up or leave, but like others here I don't think those are necessarily your only options.

What about hierarchal poly? Does your husband acknowledge you as his primary partner? If discussed, is this something that he might agree to? If so, the two of you can discuss ways to achieve this, maybe by putting boundaries and rules in place, to ensure that your needs are still being met in your own marriage. I'm not married myself and kind of have a thing against cohabitation (I like my space!) but I have a married friend who is poly. He and his wife have a no sleepover rule, so while his wife does have a boyfriend, she always comes home at the end of the night. Might that be a compromise that would alleviate some of the hurt you're feeling and keep you from feeling replaced?

It isn't as though you were pure monogamists before this new girlfriend. You were already swinging and sharing him to some extent. It might be that the extent to which you are sharing him now is just too much, but that's something that can be talked about and worked on going forward.

I wouldn't advise that you resign yourself to being miserable indefinitely, and I understand the hesitation to just up and leave a marriage of 18 years. But maybe investigate your feelings a bit more regarding the jealous, the sadness and the hurt. Personally, I find that whenever I've experienced a feeling of jealousy, upon closer inspection it was because I wasn't getting something that I needed from my partner. When my needs are being met and my boundaries aren't being crossed or tested, I'm a happy camper. Going into this blind it may not have occurred to you to even set boundaries in the first place, but if you really think your feelings through, you may find that you do have boundaries (maybe less extreme than "don't love anyone else but me") and that they are being crossed right now. Maybe making some relationship agreements going forward will make this experience better for you.

I'm curious to know what changed 8 months ago? Also, how often does your husband's girlfriend come to your home? Having a new lover in *your* space may be part of what is making you feel replaced? Does she have to come over? Can your relationships run a little more parallel as opposed to being so enmeshed?

Also, just because it seems like your husband may be poly doesn't mean that you need to become poly now. You can continue to swing on your side of the V, if you decide that's what you want to do. It makes sense to crave a new lover for yourself, a boyfriend, so as to be distracted from your husband's other relationship. But it would only be a distraction. I think the best thing to do is to figure out exactly what is hurting you, why is it hurting you, and see if there is a path forward with your husband. If not, cross that bridge when you come to it, but there really isn't any going back. Even if he was to leave her for you, that would not make the love between them disappear, or the possible resentment, and you would still know that he is capable of loving someone else.

I really do hope that there is a poly-friendly way forward that you are comfortable with, because I wouldn't want you to lose your partner. But only if you want to. You shouldn't feel that you're just gritting your teeth because you're stuck in a situation that's hurting you. You're never stuck. You do have options.