New and seeking advice

I

I_Voyager

New member
Hi there! My wife and I have agreed to pursue an open relationship after 12.5 years together, married for two years, with discussed and mutually accepted boundaries. We do have some specific boundaries but given those this is something I hope to seek advice on handling well and in a healthy way! Hoping to find that here... Nice to meet you all!
S
 
Welcome! What kind of open relationship? What boundaries? What advice are you seeking? Mo’ deets needed!
 
Greetings I_Voyager,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Welcome to the world of open/poly, it sounds like you and your wife have laid a good foundation for it. I recommend the Poly Relationships Corner as the place for you to post next, to get the advice you seek. It is the board that gets the most responses, from the widest range of people. Of course you can use this thread as well, I will be following it, and there will be others who post in it. Whatever you choose, I hope Polyamory.com gives you the kind of assistance you need. Welcome to the boards, and welcome to open/poly!

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
I_Voyager said:
Hi there! My wife and I have agreed to pursue an open relationship after 12.5 years together, married for two years, with discussed and mutually accepted boundaries. We do have some specific boundaries but given those this is something I hope to seek advice on handling well and in a healthy way! Hoping to find that here... Nice to meet you all!
S
Click to expand...
Welcome, Voyager.

It sounds like you and your wife (give her a name when you get the chance) have talked a lot and made some agreements about what is and is not mutually acceptable in your exploration of open relationships. Keep the conversation going … it’s a good bet you haven’t thought of everything ahead of time.

A note on terminology: We tend to speak of “boundaries” as commitments we make to (and enforce for) ourselves to protect our own interests; “agreements” as the behaviors and prohibitions we negotiate with others; and “rules” as requirements imposed by us on partners, or by others on us.

Various posters here would tell you, you might want to share “messy people” lists, and make agreements not to date those people who, if dating, would make life too complicated for one or both. For example, you might not date anyone from work, or your spouse’s family members or best friend.

Another thing you might not have discussed much between the two of you is the rights of the other parties to your open relationship. Often established couples work hard to proof their own relationship against the experiment of non-monogamy, but forget to think about the needs and wants of the people they will be meeting along the way. Veto power and hierarchical structures are common, but they disadvantage the partners outside the established couple. Be aware of what it means to claim those rights, if you plan to. (If you’ve discussed this — wow, and well done!)

Finally, if you’re used to identifying very closely with one another, knowing everything the other does, and being involved in all of their decisions and plans … learn a bit about what it means to disentangle and give each other perhaps more independence and autonomy than is common in many monogamous marriages. Having a secure sense of self and some things you do independently will help you both find satisfying relationships outside the marriage, and also better weather the lonely or jealous moments.

Definitely drop specific questions or discussion topics in the Poly Relationships Corner.

Good luck on your journey!
 
SarahD said:
Welcome! What kind of open relationship? What boundaries? What advice are you seeking? Mo’ deets needed!
Click to expand...
So, my wife and I have always had a pretty emotionally integrated relationship with open communication. As a student of philosophy and psychology I have helped her cultivate reflective skills and have encouraged her self-realization and a big movement forward happened in the past few months when she realized she had buried her bisexuality for a number of reasons.

We have been talking a lot about where our comfort zones are, talking about having group sex experiences and even the possibility of Julie having other girlfriends and integrating multiple concurrent relationships such as seeking a second wife or something.

But I think I came to a place where I felt like it was selfish of me to expect her to explore her bisexuality strictly through our relationship in some way, and I have a deeply slutty side I have never explored in a healthy way. So when we talked about her pursuing dating or sexual encounters with other women I asked about whether or not I could. I think after as many years as we've been together and the things we've struggled through she realized she was fine with it.

We discussed boundaries for some times, setting ground rules and expectations. We want our relationship to come first and other partners to respect that. We have agreed that if either of us experience emotional distress as a result of entering into open sexual experiences that we should defer to the others concerns. We have made our apartment off-limits although I want to renegotiate this. We have agreed to maybe make it so when we're together we're not with another via texting or other exchanges. We have agreed to keep an open line of discussion, to talk about our experiences and to be willing to revise all this after new experiences.

I think for the most part we are both concerned with the other having meaningful sexual experiences and exploring our identities, but not compromising our relationship or hurting each other.
 
Welcome.

Glad to hear you are thinking ahead and talking things out. Keep talking.

We discussed boundaries for some times, setting ground rules and expectations. We want our relationship to come first and other partners to respect that. We have agreed that if either of us experience emotional distress as a result of entering into open sexual experiences that we should defer to the others concerns. We have made our apartment off-limits although I want to renegotiate this. We have agreed to maybe make it so when we're together we're not with another via texting or other exchanges. We have agreed to keep an open line of discussion, to talk about our experiences and to be willing to revise all this after new experiences.
Click to expand...

Might want to talk that part out some more. Are the new potentials going to be made aware of all this? How this may affect them if they agree to get involved with either of you?

Sounds like you want something primary-secondary. What happens if that gets outgrown? Is a co-primary thing possible? Have you discussed what happens if the experiment gets to a place of parting ways? Like down to everyone single again?

We have agreed that if either of us experience emotional distress as a result of entering into open sexual experiences that we should defer to the others concerns.
Click to expand...

In what way? Like... what would would be a reasonable and rational concern? What would be unreasonable or irrational concern?

We have made our apartment off-limits although I want to renegotiate this.
Click to expand...

Well, if you were roomies, the roomies can NEVER bring a date over to the flat/house? Or have an overnight?

What makes it different there?

Is it that you need a place with a split floor plan so you can have separate bedrooms or at guest bedroom that doesn't share a wall?

Or at least a different set of sheets?

We have agreed to maybe make it so when we're together we're not with another via texting or other exchanges.
Click to expand...

In general that's good. Have you defined what counts as "emergency" where other partner's could text or call? Or you could call even if partner is out with their other partner?

We have agreed to keep an open line of discussion, to talk about our experiences and to be willing to revise all this after new experiences.
Click to expand...

Again... what is reasonable and rational info to share? What is TMI details? For instance, if you share sex with someone, that's not just your info. It's their info too. And while they might be fine with you telling wife that safer sex practices like condoms were used, they might not appreciate or consent to you telling wife every little detail of what you did together.

I don't know if any of these help as you continue to talk with wife.

medium.com

The Most Skipped Step When Opening a Relationship

You’ve had hundreds of hours of discussions on what your open relationship will look like? Check!
medium.com medium.com

Practical Polyamory

Information on relationship skills, education and activism information related to the practice of polyamory; polyamory media resource.
practicalpolyamory.com

www.kathylabriola.com

kathylabriola.com

Kathy's new zine published by Microcosm Guide to Happy Polydays: How Polyamorous People Can Thrive Between Thanksgiving and New Year's Book Reviews by Kathy Labriola:See Below_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
www.kathylabriola.com www.kathylabriola.com

These are from the "Opening Up" book.

Wayback Machine
Creating Authentic Relationships

Wayback Machine
Open Relationship Checklist

Wayback Machine
Reflecting on Change

Wayback Machine
Self Evaluation

HTH!
Galagirl
 
GalaGirl said:
Welcome.

Glad to hear you are thinking ahead and talking things out. Keep talking.



Might want to talk that part out some more. Are the new potentials going to be made aware of all this? How this may affect them if they agree to get involved with either of you?

Sounds like you want something primary-secondary. What happens if that gets outgrown? Is a co-primary thing possible? Have you discussed what happens if the experiment gets to a place of parting ways? Like down to everyone single again?



In what way? Like... what would would be a reasonable and rational concern? What would be unreasonable or irrational concern?



Well, if you were roomies, the roomies can NEVER bring a date over to the flat/house? Or have an overnight?

What makes it different there?

Is it that you need a place with a split floor plan so you can have separate bedrooms or at guest bedroom that doesn't share a wall?

Or at least a different set of sheets?



In general that's good. Have you defined what counts as "emergency" where other partner's could text or call? Or you could call even if partner is out with their other partner?



Again... what is reasonable and rational info to share? What is TMI details? For instance, if you share sex with someone, that's not just your info. It's their info too. And while they might be fine with you telling wife that safer sex practices like condoms were used, they might not appreciate or consent to you telling wife every little detail of what you did together.

I don't know if any of these help as you continue to talk with wife.

medium.com

The Most Skipped Step When Opening a Relationship

You’ve had hundreds of hours of discussions on what your open relationship will look like? Check!
medium.com medium.com

Practical Polyamory

Information on relationship skills, education and activism information related to the practice of polyamory; polyamory media resource.
practicalpolyamory.com

www.kathylabriola.com

kathylabriola.com

Kathy's new zine published by Microcosm Guide to Happy Polydays: How Polyamorous People Can Thrive Between Thanksgiving and New Year's Book Reviews by Kathy Labriola:See Below_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
www.kathylabriola.com www.kathylabriola.com

These are from the "Opening Up" book.

Wayback Machine
Creating Authentic Relationships

Wayback Machine
Open Relationship Checklist

Wayback Machine
Reflecting on Change

Wayback Machine
Self Evaluation

HTH!
Galagirl
Click to expand...
I think for the most part we're putting empathy above rationality here since I think we both accept that emotionality and rationality come from the same place. Reason is the slave of the passions. So we have not established a boundary between rational or irrational concerns where emotional need is concerned, so long as we're not being abusive or cruel.

Of course, things can change so insofar as our desire to put our relationship first is concerned if in the future we find the emotional adaptivity to have emotionally significant relations with others and still be primary, that is fine, but I don't think that is either of our intentions. We don't either want relationships that will compete with ours.

As for ending the relationship I don't really think it is an option for either of us. Of course, we have standards for how we treat each other and we'd not put our relationship so far forward we would forgive abuse but insofar as we are still in a healthy relationship we have both agreed other we do not leave each other because of feelings for another, but partners we are with have to enter into being with us under those conditions. She and I communicate well and we only want to know people with whom we can communicate well and who can integrate into our lives in a healthy way.

When we were younger we both had a similar view about friendships: if we had friends who made us choose between them or other friends, we'd prefer not to be friends with the person who made the ultimatum. But we have cultivated a healthy relationship through mutual trust, openness, honesty, growth, accommodation, empathy and communication. We both intrinsically care about the interests of the other and rarely (if ever) have to fight to have our interests realized in the relationship. So we expect new partners to accommodate our relationship norms. Although we are not obliged to tell each other every little thing or detail in some way, trust is after all not about total disclosure but the need for total disclosure betrays a lack of trust, I think any partner we are with should expect that we don't keep secrets from one another either. We both hate drama. I think ultimately we would prefer to cultivate relationships which integrate into our primary.

I appreciate the questions... For the most part neither of us has thought about the 'other's interests - perhaps because they're theoretical until something is happening with someone. In which case theory becomes moot, the new partner will have their own specific interests. I am certain we will discuss these sort-of metaboundaries, ones we establish with the other partner, with the same spirit of empathy and openness. Hopefully we find partners who fit the paradigm!
 
So we have not established a boundary between rational or irrational concerns where emotional need is concerned, so long as we're not being abusive or cruel.
Click to expand...

Abusive and cruel to WHO? Just each other?

Where's the potential new person in all that? Does their emotional distress counts too?

So if they unreasonably want to be calling you all hours of the night even if there's work the next day... that's ok for them to do? Blow up your phone? Or you to do to them?

We don't either want relationships that will compete with ours.
Click to expand...

So if an outside relationship gets "too serious" the potential can expect to be dumped? There's going to be veto power here?

So we expect new partners to accommodate our relationship norms.
Click to expand...

How will you be accommodating into the new partner's norms?

Or is the expectation a one way street? Your way goes?

I think any partner we are with should expect that we don't keep secrets from one another either. We both hate drama. I think ultimately we would prefer to cultivate relationships which integrate into our primary.
Click to expand...

Are you aware that could all sound very "couple privilege" to potentials? And/or kind of enmeshed?

And you may unwittingly set up your established partner as some sort of "gate keeper" to the new relationship -- a role which they may or may not actually want? Or you may not like them to have?

For the most part neither of us has thought about the 'other's interests - perhaps because they're theoretical until something is happening with someone. In which case theory becomes moot, the new partner will have their own specific interests. I am certain we will discuss these sort-of metaboundaries, ones we establish with the other partner, with the same spirit of empathy and openness. Hopefully we find partners who fit the paradigm!
Click to expand...

There's nothing wrong with wanting a primary-secondary model. You just let people know up front that's what you seek.

But if you come across as uber "couple privilege" sounding? Some may give you wide berth and not bother with you because they don't know some of these things are negotiable.

Could consider the other persons' interests or perspective. Of course you have to sort it out in "real time" when there an actual person you are dating and assessing compatibility with.

But some of the stuff you could think about now.
  • Could start thinking about how you come across to others.
  • Could ponder other's interests that may be ok, and are not.
    • For instance -- kids. Do you want them? With just each other or open to having them with other partners? I know I don't want any more and I have no interest in helping someone else finish raising theirs.
Could read the secondary bill of rights and the relationship bill of rights and have a discussion around those.

Galagirl
 
GalaGirl said:
Abusive and cruel to WHO? Just each other?

Where's the potential new person in all that? Does their emotional distress counts too?

So if they unreasonably want to be calling you all hours of the night even if there's work the next day... that's ok for them to do? Blow up your phone? Or you to do to them?



So if an outside relationship gets "too serious" the potential can expect to be dumped? There's going to be veto power here?



How will you be accommodating into the new partner's norms?

Or is the expectation a one way street? Your way goes?



Are you aware that could all sound very "couple privilege" to potentials? And/or kind of enmeshed?

And you may unwittingly set up your established partner as some sort of "gate keeper" to the new relationship -- a role which they may or may not actually want? Or you may not like them to have?



There's nothing wrong with wanting a primary-secondary model. You just let people know up front that's what you seek.

But if you come across as uber "couple privilege" sounding? Some may give you wide berth and not bother with you because they don't know some of these things are negotiable.

Could consider the other persons' interests or perspective. Of course you have to sort it out in "real time" when there an actual person you are dating and assessing compatibility with.

But some of the stuff you could think about now.
  • Could start thinking about how you come across to others.
  • Could ponder other's interests that may be ok, and are not.
    • For instance -- kids. Do you want them? With just each other or open to having them with other partners? I know I don't want any more and I have no interest in helping someone else finish raising theirs.
Could read the secondary bill of rights and the relationship bill of rights and have a discussion around those.

Galagirl
Click to expand...
Neither of us find any kind of abuse or cruelty tolerable, so the standards for a relationship we have for each other round probably be the same with others. For myself it is a universal standard. I treat everyone with a basic minimum respect and friendliness, and usually if I am being mean I am feeling both defensive and in physical danger. If she or I have a partner I think we should treat them as we treat each other. In this sense, the emotional distress of another person is important. But it depends on the why. I heard of a situation where one person in a couple started seeing a third person, the second person got a little jealous. To solve it the first person wanted to set up a date for all three, but the third person was disgusted by the idea of meeting the second person. So I think we would not respect that kind of emotional distress. On the other hand if my partner and I were cuddling and watching a movie and she had a partner who was breaking down I wouldn't necessarily expect the "no contact with others" rule to apply as I believe emotional consolation is a virtue.

I don't really know how to answer the question about having our phones blow up with messages and stuff.

I don't think a person who gets in a relationship which becomes serious will be guaranteed to be dumped but I do think we will be upfront from the get-go that a serious relationship must be compatible with the primary relationship. But I think we would be comfortable integrating new partners in a live-in situation under the condition we coexist in a romantically healthy way. IE clear communication, honesty, empathy, compromise, etc... I am not going to be a tyrant. We are all emotionally unique beings and our needs matter. A second partner living with us will not be treated like they're on the lower class or outside. Their emotional needs will matter to me, albeit hopefully this is reciprocal.

When it comes to reciprocating norms it will likely be live and nuanced. So long as the new partner can coexist with our norms which are pretty reasonable, the stuff of a healthy relationship, I think situations should always integrate the complexities of people and a diversity of views improves the ability of people to solve problems. So, so long as they're not bring in, you know, pro-violence or pro-drama or pro-manipulation kinds of norms we'll probably be fine.

That being said, if I lived with my partners partner but she and I were not sexual, her emotional needs would be as real for me as my partners. I wouldn't want that person to think I don't have her back. If we were all making a home together I would find that important.

I am not 100% sure the definition of couple-privilge but I am sure some of that will be there. Our relationship has been a great source of strength and development for us. I think anyone coming into our lives should respect that. That being said, I think we both intend to be upfront, straight-forward and integrating.

When it comes to the living situation we live in a small apartment. I think she just wants to preserve a certain sanctity for our place. But there would be no barrier if one of us was with a partner while the other is home and this might be a motive for her? For myself I don't require this rule, I see it as easier to bring someone home and fine to change the sheets. But if it is important for her I am fine with it without question.

I love kids. We want kids but don't have any. Life will be incomplete for me if I don't have kids. I am willing to adopt or pursue surrogacy. My wife is worried about the physical experience of childbearing and its impact. Whether or not a potential partner has kids is moot to me because I love kids.
 
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TinCup said:
Would be for me. If I were reading that post as a profile in a dating app I would NOPE along. I would think it would limit your already limited dating pool.

But it's a good question for the group.
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I mean, that's why it's posted in the group and not a dating app.

We'd prioritize potential partners who are empathetic and caring people anywho. Neither of us would be interested in dating people who thought our emotions or needs didn't matter.
 
I_Voyager said:
Is that a bad thing?
Click to expand...
It can shorten the life span of any other relationships unless you learn to actively mitigate it.

In a nutshell, give each other the courtesy of independence to have other relationships evolve healthily.

If you each have strong boundaries about how you will let yourself be treated by anyone at all, and foster the skills to clearly communicate that to every person you are involved with (including current partner) then that's a good start.

One of my boundaries is that I won't tolerate any partner intruding on my quality time with another partner, including leaving shitty messages for me to find when I get back to my phone. I will not be treated like that. I. Not we. I.

I also have partners with the same boundaries and values. This isn't us as a couple (on either side of the V) setting rules for the other person, so not couples privilege. Couple's privilege are two prioritised over others.
 
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Evie said:
It can shorten the life span of any other relationships unless you learn to actively mitigate it.

In a nutshell, give each other the courtesy of independence to have other relationships evolve healthily.

If you each have strong boundaries about how you will let yourself be treated by anyone at all, and foster the skills to clearly communicate that to every person you are involved with (including current partner) then that's a good start.

One of my boundaries is that I won't tolerate any partner intruding on my quality time with another partner, including leaving shitty messages for me to find when I get back to my phone. I will not be treated like that. I. Not we. I.

I also have partners with the same boundaries and values. This isn't us as a couple (on either side of the V) setting rules for the other person.
Click to expand...
Is it generally seen as a bad thing for a couple to impose joint rules for another person? I personally can see how it would be intimidating, like ganging up on someone. I think insofar as I see other people being involved with both of us I would want there not to be a hierarchy of us and them, but if another person is added it becomes a new us. I don't like the idea of imposing rules on a third person that would make being part of this relationship as like walking on eggshells.
 
TinCup said:
You just jumped into unicorn hunting territory. Maybe you didn't mean to but take a look at this:
unicorns-r-us

Might answer your first question too.
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The one caveat in this thought experiment is the possibility that the third in a triad in this case might have a platonic relationship with me if she was gay, let's say. In which case hopefully we cultivate a friendship. That article definitely solved my question about the V which I forgot to ask...

We are not aiming for a triad, it's just one of the possibilities that has come up in discussion. We might not be unicorn hunters in the strictest sense because we are not looking to complete our relationship through a third person who has offsetting attributes. For myself, I have a strong desire just to connect emotionally and I think for herself it is a desire to explore sexuality with other women. If that resolves itself in a triad, great, but it'd be less economic, more socially just integrating differences.

I'd like to delight in the differences of others rather than economize desired traits against undesired traits.
 
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