New member that is curious about poly

[SocratesOfLove]

Pleasure to meet you all. I am currently single, but I do have an interest in poly. One of my goals in life is to have 2 wives, because it does sound more lovely to have more company throughout life. At least, that's how I see it in my current lens. I am very interested in the legality of this, and how people deal with the problems that arise with poly. Here are a few questions I have, and if anyone can link me to a forum to read about this, it will be much appreciated.

Questions:
One of the biggest concerns I have, is not making Uncle Sam angry. How does one deal with taxes if you have 2 wives?
How does one find the appropriate people for poly?
What is the most wives someone has in our current era? (This is just stupid curiosity)
How do people deal with social irrationality? (Meaning, people will obviously be against poly because they think it's wrong. Although, I personally think it's foolish to stop adult decisions that are consented and causes no problems to anyone...)
Do you have a better chance on living with keeping the relationship in secret? or does that depends on the country you are living in?
Does having children cause problems? (I remember a case where a poly family had their kids taken away because it was inappropriate behavior for the children. I'm not 100% certain if this is what happened, but this news definitely made an impact on me.)
Does religion affect people's decision about poly? (This might be somewhat obvious through my current analysis, but I am kinda curious if anyone else thought of this, because religion plays a big role in monogamy. Although, there might certain religions that are more accepting)
How does one balance the emotions between the people in your poly circle?
Has anyone decided to have different wives that speak different languages? (I can speak 4 languages, and I wonder if anyone has had a case of having a Russian wife and a Spanish wife or whatever other combinations. Personally I find it cool to have more than one culture in a family.)

Alright, that's all for now. Thanks once again for anyone helping me increase my knowledge of poly.

 

[Bobbi]

One of my goals in life is to have 2 wives,

This is polygamy, not polyamory. Although they seem similar because of multiple wives and all, they are distinctly different. Polygamy is highly patriarchal, with one person (usually a man) having multiple spouses (wives). Those spouses are to be monogamous. Polygamy also involves marriage and living as a legally-married couple (whether legal or not). Currently polygamy is not legal in the US, but it is in other countries.

Polyamory is very against patriarchy and supports empowering women. It is having multiple loves and relationships, with everyone able to have multiple partners. Ex. You have 3 partners. Partner 1 has two other partners. Partner 2 maybe has one other partner, but is dating regularly. Partner 3 chooses not to have other partners at this time, but can start dating and looking for another partner whenever they want.

You can have commitment in polyamory, and life partners, but only one spouse, if you choose to legally marry one person. That spouse is free to have other partners.

Polyamory is about autonomy and each person being able to have the life and relationships they want. If you are looking for polygamy, then you won't find much support on this site.

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings SocratesOfLove,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

It's not legal to marry more than one woman. However, you can consider a second woman to be your wife without officially marrying her. For taxes, you only claim to be married to one woman. The second woman would be considered a roommate, or something along those lines.

Finding the appropriate people for poly tends to be difficult, and takes a long time. You should try your luck with dating apps, but also get out there and meet people in person. If you google "polyamory" with the name of your state or nearest major city, one or two poly groups may come up, and you can attend their get-togethers and make platonic friends (which is the first step).

I'm not sure who has the most wives in our current era. Probably Warren Jeffs, apparently he has somewhere between 70 and 90 wives, but he is a cult leader and has these wives in that context. You would not want to be like him. He has freaky beliefs, has married child brides, and is currently serving a life sentence for that.

Having two wives would not be an ethical/moral thing to do if you did not have the genuine consent of both women. If you do have their consent, then you don't worry about what other people think. Some people practice poly in secret in order to avoid things like losing jobs, losing children, and being disowned by family members. I'm assuming you live in the United States. There are countries -- especially African and Middle Eastern -- that condone polygyny. But you don't want to live in those countries-- they don't treat their women right.

I assume there are people out there who have wives that speak different languages, but I am not personally acquainted with any of those people. I would think there would be some potential problems with that, as the wives would not be able to speak to each other.

If you are going to have multiple wives, you should consider consenting to each wife having multiple husbands. It would be the fair thing to do. I don't advise you to try patriarchal polygyny. Again, it's okay if you have the genuine consent of both/all of your wives, but patriarchal polygyny is usually based on brainwashing the wives into going along with it, and that is not ethical/moral.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

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[Magdlyn]

Pleasure to meet you all. I am currently single, but I do have an interest in poly. One of my goals in life is to have 2 wives, because it does sound more lovely to have more company throughout life. At least, that's how I see it in my current lens. I am very interested in the legality of this, and how people deal with the problems that arise with poly. Here are a few questions I have, and if anyone can link me to a forum to read about this, it will be much appreciated.

From how you write, it sounds like you have English as a second language. I wonder if you are from the US, Canada or Eurpope/UK, or somewhere else, where marriage laws might be different.

Polygyny is a Greek type of word meaning multiple wives. (GYN- like a gynecologist.) Polyandry means multiple husbands. (ANDROS means man in Greek, where we get the name Andrew.)

Polygamy means legal marriage of multiple people. (GAMOS means marriage.) The huge majority of legal polygamy is polygyny, one man and more than one woman. Since women have less power than men, this happens through force. Women can be executed for having more than one male lover, much less more than one husband, in the countries that allow polygyny. There are a couple dozen countries in the world that have legal polygyny, but in the huge majority of countries, polygamy of any kind is illegal.

History lesson: In the US there are cults, high-control groups, that manage to trap their members. They are outlaws. One such cult is the FLDS, the Fundamental Latter Day Saints (fundie Mormons). They take women and underage girls in marriage, trading women like playing cards, passing them (and their children) around between the men with power. They force pregnancy on young teenagers. Women's only role is to produce children, and keep house.

The original Mormon Church was also polygynous (from about 1831-1890). Its founder, Joseph Smith, had a few dozen wives. He was killed for being a disgusting person (and in the US "Wild West" there were a lot of bad guys lol), and finally the Mormon Church declared they were banning "plural marriages," so that Utah could be made a state. However, their holy books say a man has to have three wives to get to the best part of heaven (where the dead still have genitals and can have sex and children lol).

Modern polyamory is not about a man having multiple wives. It is about people of any gender having lovers or partners of whatever gender. Men, women, non-binary people, transpeople, etc.-- everyone is free to date whoever they want. The most successful type of V-shaped relationship is one woman dating two straight men. Women make better hinges. But this will change as men get better at dealing with their emotions.

Questions:
One of the biggest concerns I have is not making Uncle Sam angry. How does one deal with taxes if you have two wives?

You can't legally have multiple wives in the US, so "Uncle Sam"/the federal or state governments have nothing to do with it. Cult members who practice illegal polygyny lie. A lot.

How does one find the appropriate people for poly?

In life, in alternative circles, larger liberal cities, and/or on dating apps like Feeld.

What is the most wives someone has in our current era? (This is just stupid curiosity)

You'd have to ask around the Middle East and other Muslim areas, where it's legal. Probably some oil-rich Muslim guys have a ton of wives. I think there is a Wiki page showing which countries have legal polygyny/polygamy.

How do people deal with social irrationality? (Meaning, people will obviously be against poly because they think it's wrong. Although, I personally think it's foolish to stop adult decisions that are consented and causes no problems to anyone...)

You could start a new thread just around this topic alone... And we already have hundreds. Check them out.

Do you have a better chance on living with keeping the relationship in secret? Or does that depend on the country you are living in?

Most of us polyamorists are out to the people we trust, but not necessarily to the neighbors, the postal workers, the town clerk, the grocery store workers, etc.

However, there is one city at least in Massachusetts (Somerville) that allows three parents on a newborn baby's birth certificate. I live in Mass. We rock.

Does having children cause problems? (I remember a case where a poly family had their kids taken away because it was inappropriate behavior for the children. I'm not 100% certain if this is what happened, but this news definitely made an impact on me.)

This doesn't happen much unless you are out to your own parents and they are very controlling and vindictive and think their grandchildren are being harmed and start making trouble. I don't know if anyone has lost legal custody of their own children to the kids' grandparents just because they are poly.

Does religion affect people's decision about poly? (This might be somewhat obvious through my current analysis, but I am kinda curious if anyone else thought of this, because religion plays a big role in monogamy. Although, there might certain religions that are more accepting)

Yes, atheists and pagans are more likely to be poly than Christians. We have a section on Spirituality here if you want to take a look. I am pagan, of the Wiccan variety, which is goddess-centered (or at least balanced, with goddesses and gods) and therefore more empowering to women, so modern polyamory is pretty common.

The Unitarian Universalist Church can be pretty welcoming to polyamorists, as they are to queers. But many UU Churches aren't all that Christian. They welcome Jews, Pagans, Hindus, Wiccans, atheists, etc.

How does one balance the emotions between the people in your poly circle?

There are threads by the hundred here addressing that. Or you could read the book Opening Up to get an overview quick.

Has anyone decided to have different wives that speak different languages? (I can speak 4 languages, and I wonder if anyone has had a case of having a Russian wife and a Spanish wife, or whatever other combinations. Personally I find it cool to have more than one culture in a family.)

I'm sure there are bilingual poly families, just as there are bilingual mono families.

You're jumping the gun thinking you're gonna have two wives who don't speak the same language living together with you in harmony all in one house lol

Alright, that's all for now. Thanks once again for anyone helping me increase my knowledge of poly.

Good for you for doing some research.

 

[SocratesOfLove]

This is polygamy, not polyamory. Although they seem similar because of multiple wives and all, they are distinctly different. Polygamy is highly patriarchal, with one person (usually a man) having multiple spouses (wives). Those spouses are to be monogamous. Polygamy also involves marriage and living as a legally-married couple (whether legal or not). Currently polygamy is not legal in the US, but it is in other countries.

Polyamory is very against patriarchy and supports empowering women. It is having multiple loves and relationships, with everyone able to have multiple partners. Ex. You have 3 partners. Partner 1 has two other partners. Partner 2 maybe has one other partner, but is dating regularly. Partner 3 chooses not to have other partners at this time, but can start dating and looking for another partner whenever they want.

You can have commitment in polyamory, and life partners, but only one spouse, if you choose to legally marry one person. That spouse is free to have other partners.

Polyamory is about autonomy and each person being able to have the life and relationships they want. If you are looking for polygamy, then you won't find much support on this site.

Interesting. This is my first time hearing about the difference between the two. Usually the media tends to use those words interchangeably. Also, after seeing the difference between polygamy and polyamory, I started to search online and I can now see that it is illegal to have two wives.

I will be honest. I do not know what I truly want in terms of my love life, but having two girlfriends sounds nice, in my opinion. Being able to play video games with them, going out to do hobbies, and whatever else that would make life more bearable, seems like the definition of living life on your own terms. I won't deny I would like to be selfish in my love life, but I also understand of the word consenting with other people's feelings. Regardless, I do want to still learn from this forum, and maybe find something that might pique my interest. After all, you only have one life in this world.

 

[Bobbi]

Interesting, this is my first time hearing the difference between the two. Usually the media tends to use those words interchangeably. Also, after seeing the difference between Polygamy and Polyamory. I started to search online and I can now see that it is illegal to have 2 wives. I will be honest, I do not know what I truly want in terms of my love life, but having 2 girlfriends sounds nice in my opinion. Being able to play video games with them, going out to do hobbies, and whatever else that would make life more bearable, seems like the definition of living life on your own terms. I won't deny I would like to be selfish in my love life, but I also understand of the word consenting with other people's feelings. Regardless, I do want to still learn from this forum, and maybe find something that might peak my interest. After all, you only have one life in this world.

The greatest thing in life is examining what you think you know, questioning everything and creating a life that's intentional and designed the way you want, once you have figured out all of the options.

So many live lives that their families, religions, or societies tell them they should.

Have fun learning. Have an open mind and I'm sure you'll enjoy learning as you find your way. There are tons on this site, in books, podcasts, etc. Soak it in and feel free to ask questions.

Check out the blogs and even create your own, if you choose. You can vent while learning, request feedback or get advice.

 

[ref2018]

Questions:
One of the biggest concerns I have, is not making Uncle Sam angry. How does one deal with taxes if you have 2 wives?

In the US it is illegal (for both men, women, and non-binary individuals)) to be married to more than one person at any given time. You would either file all three of you as single, or if you were legally married to one of them (or they to each other), then the two married ones could either file jointly or as "married filing as single," and the one who is not married files as single.

If you want a day-to-day idea of how this kind of thing plays out, read BlueBird's blog. She's "married" to two men, but only legally to one of them, and she's in the process of divorcing one to be remarried to the other due to health insurance reasons.

 

[Bobbi]

Things are changing though. In Somerville, Cambridge and Arlington Massachusetts domestic partnerships can be made with up to 6 people. This allows sharing of medical insurance and other domestic partnership benefits. States that recognize legally established domestic partnerships from other jurisdictions, should recognize the partnerships established there. But it's all new and I don't know anyone who has tried it.

 

[Magdlyn]

Things are changing though. In Somerville, Cambridge and Arlington Massachusetts domestic partnerships can be made with up to 6 people. This allows sharing of medical insurance and other domestic partnership benefits. States that recognize legally established domestic partnerships from other jurisdictions, should recognize the partnerships established there. But it's all new and I don't know anyone who has tried it.

Wow! I lived in Somerville for several years back in my 20s. Those cities are all right next to each other, just north of Boston, on the other side of the Charles River. That's great news. I wasn't aware.

 

[ref2018]

Things are changing though. In Somerville, Cambridge and Arlington Massachusetts domestic partnerships can be made with up to 6 people. This allows sharing of medical insurance and other domestic partnership benefits.

The ordinance — the first of its kind, according to those involved — prohibits employment and policing discrimination against those in relationships of two or more people.

Nearly three years ago, Somerville became the first municipality in the country to pass an ordinance on domestic partnerships that includes polyamorous relationships. It arose from a request by a resident for a policy on domestic partnerships, for example, to provide rights to people to care for their partners, such as paperwork that enables them to visit loved ones in the hospital.

They aren't allowed to file federal or state taxes with more than two people, even in those cities. I was answering OP's question specifically about the tax situation. That won't be changing anytime soon.

 

[ref2018]

Wow! I lived in Somerville for several years back in my 20s. Those cities are all right next to each other, just north of Boston, on the other side of the Charles River. That's great news. I wasn't aware.

Somerville celebrates another first for polyamorous people

The City Council, which passed the first ordinance allowing for more than one domestic partner, approves a new policy to prevent discrimination.

www.boston.com

 

[Bobbi]

The ordinance — the first of its kind, according to those involved — prohibits employment and policing discrimination against those in relationships of two or more people.

Nearly three years ago, Somerville became the first municipality in the country to pass an ordinance on domestic partnerships that includes polyamorous relationships. It arose from a request by a resident for a policy on domestic partnerships, for example, to provide rights to people to care for their partners, such as paperwork that enables them to visit loved ones in the hospital.

They aren't allowed to file federal or state taxes with more than two people, even in those cities. I was answering OP's question specifically about the tax situation. That won't be changing anytime soon.

Yes, these are CITY not State or Federal. Big difference, but its a start

 

[kdt26417]

The original Mormon Church was also polygynous (from about 1831-1890). Its founder, Joseph Smith, had a few dozen wives. He was killed for being a disgusting person (and in the US "Wild West" there were a lot of bad guys lol), and finally the Mormon Church declared they were banning "plural marriages," so that Utah could be made a state. However, their holy books say a man has to have three wives to get to the best part of heaven (where the dead still have genitals and can have sex and children lol).

I've read all of the LDS scriptures from cover to cover, and I don't recall happening across anything that suggested a three-wife minimum for getting into the best part of heaven. Can you specify, chapter and verse, where this doctrine is located? Can you at least cite the source from which you obtained this information?

It seems to me that perhaps you are conflating LDS scripture with the FLDS teachings of Warren Jeffs. To quote Wikipedia: "Jeffs specifically taught that a devoted church member is expected to have at least three wives in order to get into heaven, and the more wives a man has, the closer he is to heaven."

There is some controversy about Doctrine and Covenants Section 132, where the patriarchal polygyny of Abraham, Solomon, and others, is (supposedly) justified by God. When I read that section, I gather that God is saying, "Polygyny is okay." I don't gather that God is saying, "Polygyny is required." I certainly don't see God declaring a three-wife minimum. That's Warren Jeffs talking.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no friend of the LDS church, and I'm all for spreading information that discredits that church. I just think it should be factual information, not idle gossip. By making accusations that can't be verified, we are actually helping the church, and are bolstering the notion that the world is out to get the church.

 

[Magdlyn]

I've read all of the LDS scriptures from cover to cover, and I don't recall happening across anything that suggested a three-wife minimum for getting into the best part of heaven. Can you specify, chapter and verse, where this doctrine is located? Can you at least cite the source from which you obtained this information?

It seems to me that perhaps you are conflating LDS scripture with the FLDS teachings of Warren Jeffs. To quote Wikipedia: "Jeffs specifically taught that a devoted church member is expected to have at least three wives in order to get into heaven, and the more wives a man has, the closer he is to heaven."

There is some controversy about Doctrine and Covenants Section 132, where the patriarchal polygyny of Abraham, Solomon, and others, is (supposedly) justified by God. When I read that section, I gather that God is saying, "Polygyny is okay." I don't gather that God is saying, "Polygyny is required." I certainly don't see God declaring a three-wife minimum. That's Warren Jeffs talking.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no friend of the LDS church, and I'm all for spreading information that discredits that church. I just think it should be factual information, not idle gossip. By making accusations that can't be verified, we are actually helping the church, and are bolstering the notion that the world is out to get the church.

Thanks for the input. I am not sure where I heard this, but lately I've been watching a couple of YouTube channels hosted by ex-Mormons: Cults to Consciousness and Alyssa Grenfell. There's some pretty wild stuff on those channels. I may have heard it from one of the guests or in the comments. I honestly don't remember. Maybe you're right, and it's more specifically a FLDS revelation. Joseph Smith was a pretty good con man and he dictated some crazy crazy stuff, but maybe he didn't go that far.

I just heard about the three Nephites. lol

 

[kdt26417]

There are plenty of rumors out there of Joseph Smith having many wives, when he claimed to have just one. As well as rumors about him telling those women that their salvation depended on marrying him. But without doing a shit-ton of research -- and I'm not feeling up to that -- I can't claim they're more than rumors.

 

[Magdlyn]

We have derailed this enough lol.

 

[Evie]

omg, Kevin swore lol

 

[kdt26417]