New, mono-poly, wanting more tools

What is this? He's doing the mememememe show, where everything is for him? When do you get a turn for something? It's like your husband expects you to carry him a LOT.
His stance throughout this has been that he works and his motivation for working is me, so that's him doing/carrying a lot. He's said things in arguments like, "I could be an asshole and make you pay for your cellphone by yourself." Mind you, I make a lot less than him (that artist life), but it's my paycheck that covers the phone bill anyway, so this isn't about numbers to him but the concept of working as a team vs. going dutch?

Frankly, it's made me want to go dutch so that it can't be used as a replacement for emotional labor, but I also don't know if that'd be insensitive of me toward what he values. Would this also be a good thing to do when detangling?


Maybe you want to try other approaches, like swapping out "but" for "and," and see if that works any better.

Or even ask for repeat backs.

OR. you could simply take a break, and NOT do any more "extra" emotional labor on this.
Ohh these are great! Okay, I can do these! I do think there's a high chance I'll take a break; maybe that'll also help bring the temperature down.

At the same time, you CAN ask him out on other dates and try on your end. But you can't FORCE him. And don't beg.
Okay! We do go on regular dates now, but nothing crazy. We'll be going to a breakfast place this weekend. I'm trying to subtly figure out a bigger date idea he'd like to go on by subtly bringing up places to gauge his interest first. I'm concerned that he only goes on dates to appease me, as he has told me repeatedly that after work/on his days off, he'd rather be relaxing at home. So far, no luck, but I'm trying.
 
Him: still grumpy
Me: What's wrong honey?
Him: We need to go out on more dates without kids.
Me: plans dates, hires sitter, goes on dates
This sounds so exhausting! I'm glad you're out of there. I do see what you mean and these are familiar beats. To be fair to my husband, I'm equally concerned that I come off this way to him. This transition has meant I've sought a lot of reassurance from him. If it's okay to say, was there anything your counselor suggested he do that I could learn from?

Him: Let's be poly and we can have threesomes!
Me: reads Ethical Slut (he doesn't), attempts
Him: falls in love with other woman, out of "love" with me
Definitely a familiar feeling!! It can feel like monkey-branching as opposed to poly but I don't know if this is a normal poly-newbie mistake to not research when suggesting something as big as threesomes, or if it's a genuine red flag.
 
His stance throughout this has been that he works and his motivation for working is me.

By that logic... if you and he break up, he quits working then, because he was only working "for you," not because he has bills and wants to eat and have a home, right?

He's said things in arguments like, "I could be an asshole and make you pay for your cellphone by yourself."

So he wants what, for you to clap and give him a prize when he does basic polite?

What's your response? You could be an asshole back and not buy groceries for the house, or only get your own.

I don't think you can argue/be logicical with someone who is being illogical. Sigh. And I don't think sinking into "tit for tat" is the answer or the path to a healthy relationship.

To me, you sound like both contribute financially, according to their means. And then you do the lion's share of emotional labor, and he goes, "But I contribute financially," as if that excuses him from contributing in that area.

What if you had shared pets, kids, eldercare? Do you have to do all that too? And his reason for skipping out on shared responsibilities is still, "But I contribute financially"? I think you could talk about fair division of labor/chores/finances/appreciation with a counselor. That's not something internet people can help with.


Frankly, it's made me want to go Dutch so that it can't be used as a replacement for emotional labor, but I also don't know if that'd be insensitive of me toward what he values.

You sound annoyed with him for taking you for granted. (I would be too.) But are you also used to going on tiptoe, always worrying about how he MIGHT feel?

I don't think this is him having a GF. Right now she's the New Shiny Person. I suspect eventually he'd take her and all her work for granted too. But again, talk to counselor about your particular case.

I'm concerned that he only goes on dates to appease me, as he has told me repeatedly that after work/on his days off, he'd rather be relaxing at home.

Small dates are fine. Do what you can.

You think he's just phoning it in? If he's making a big show of it, quit going on dates with him, because he's poor company. Nobody needs a meh date just to clock the date.

Are you in poly hell?


I could be wrong, but to me it kinda sounds less like poly hell, and more like poly is shining a light on all the problems that were there all along: like him using his financial contributions to coast in all other areas. You are you struggling with some "mental load" stuff because things were uneven before the GF was ever around. Just that her being around and seeing him make effort is like "So you CAN do things! You have just been coasting with me."

You were even worrying about him packing them soup cans for dinner, when it's NOT your job or responsibility. I think you could step back on a lot of things.

Then even if better dates are still a work in progress, at least small dates are happening, and you aren't getting sucked dry by all this extra stuff you do that you actually don't need to be doing. YKWIM? But if the small dates are meh because of his attitude, skip it. I know it risks growing distant/growing apart/falling out of love. But if he doesn't wake up, that's the risk he is taking, alienating you, you tuning out, and you deciding you are done here because it's not especially nourishing.

There's only so much waving at him going: "HELLO? Do you not SEE me?" that you can do. :(

I cannot tell over the internet what level this is at, so I encourage you to talk to a counselor.

Galagirl
 
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Definitely a familiar feeling!! It can feel like monkey-branching as opposed to poly but I don't know if this is a normal poly-newbie mistake to not research when suggesting something as big as threesomes, or if it's a genuine red flag.

This sounds like either/or thinking, when it could be both/and thinking instead. It is both a poly newbie mistake to jump into things blind, AND it is a red flag.

Is that what is happening here? You think your husband is monkey-branching out of this relationship?

GG
 
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This sounds so exhausting! I'm glad you're out of there. I do see what you mean and these are familiar beats. To be fair to my husband, I'm equally concerned that I come off this way to him. This transition has meant I've sought a lot of reassurance from him. If it's okay to say, was there anything your counselor suggested he do that I could learn from?
At the time, one of the things she said I was doing right, and she did with him, with the responsive listening things. (I was trained in communication skills like that through the organization I was working for, so I was familiar with it and already did it with him and the kids. At least, I tried.) She tried to get him to get familiar with this form of talking. Listen fully to your partner. Tell them back what you heard. They correct you if that's not what they meant. You tell them again what you understood to be their meanings. Then, and only then, do you share your side. And they have to sit there and listen, not interrupt. They wait until you're finished, repeat back, etc.

Also, we learned to take breaks in arguments if things got heated. Generally that meant the discussions should last one hour, max. Return to the subject when you're fully calmed down. Gala says it takes her three days to clear the adrenaline, but I find I can reapproach the topic during the same day, a couple/three hours later, apologize and try to get on the same page.

So, we both did that with him, and he STILL said he didn't feel heard. He'd say that: "I don't feel heard!" It was incredibly frustrating. As background he had really low self esteem. Despite what I've written, he was a people pleaser. He would do too much for others, and then resent it. He was also conflict avoidant. He'd go hide and play Warcraft for eight hours at a time.

He really didn't feel he was worthy of love. He was the oldest of five kids, all born in 10 years. He got neglected as the cute babies came along, told to grow up and be a big boy. Therefore, he was envious when we had three little kids. He felt unloved because their needs came first to me (as they should have to him). But it was triggering to his childhood neglect (and the spankings he got, and the shaming). So he wanted special lunches and lots of sex to feel seen, heard, loved. His mom did provide bagged lunches, sandwiches, when he was in school so he felt her love that way, maybe only then (according to him), But he wanted something better than her sandwiches. And the sex, was of course the cuddles he didn't get enough of as a child. It was sad, really. He was a good dad and loved our kids, but at the same time, he resented the care I had to give them. (And I'd get touched out by the end of the day. I was a SAHM and had three kids in five years.) He wanted equal time/effort even when they were little infants and preschoolers-- just a big baby himself.

The problem was, he didn't/couldn't/wouldn't delve deeply into his childhood trauma. So despite my best efforts at doing what he asked (and more I haven't listed here), he never felt loved.

Therefore, our counselor dropped him. He hit a wall and that was that.
Definitely a familiar feeling!! It can feel like monkey-branching, as opposed to poly, but I don't know if this is a normal poly-newbie mistake to not research when suggesting something as big as threesomes, or if it's a genuine red flag.

It is a very common newbie mistake to do little to no research but if taken too far, it shows a certain selfishness, I think. My ex wasn't much of a reader in general, except the tech stuff he needed for his job. He took his lead from his gf-- her words were gold.

(They're still together. I think their neuroses match up. She was outright abused as a child.)

My ex just wanted to focus on his gf and the sexy floaty NRE, and pretty much avoid all the hard stuff. A lot of the kids' needs were no longer important, paying bills and yard care and my car maintenance became my job. My older daughter had to get skillful with a screwdriver for odd jobs he wouldn't do. And he never grocery shopped, cooked, cleaned or did laundry-- heaven forbid! I even did his clothes shopping and made all his medical appointments, planned all the holidays and birthdays. Women's work! He worked an eight-hour day and that was ALL he needed to do.

When he saw I was pulling back, that's when he started treating me better. He could see I was done trying and that's when he started buying me flowers, taking me away on hotel weekends, and whatnot! But it was too little, too late at that point. He lost his maid, cook, housekeeper, gardener, sex partner, personal shopper, and personal secretary all in one fell swoop.

I'm not bitter, btw, I am just listing what happened. He and I are on friendly co-parent, co-grandparent terms. We don't hang out unless one of our kids wants a family shindig to happen, like for their birthday or something, but we definitely don't fight or bitch at each other. I've moved on.
 
By that logic... if you and he break up, he quits working then, because he was only working "for you," not because he has bills and wants to eat and have a home, right?
I wondered that too!

You sound annoyed with him for taking you for granted. (I would be too.) But are you also used to going on tiptoe, always worrying about how he MIGHT feel?
Yes, wait, is what I just said tiptoeing? I'm genuinely curious because I thought I was being sympathetic.

I could be wrong, but to me it kinda sounds less like poly hell, and more like poly is shining a light on all the problems that were there all along: like him using his financial contributions to coast in all other areas. You are you struggling with some "mental load" stuff because things were uneven before the GF was ever around. Just that her being around and seeing him make effort is like "So you CAN do things! You have just been coasting with me."
I absolutely relate to a lot of the things said in poly hell but you're right, I don't know if it's the poly arrangement itself or just the juxtaposition.

Minor tangent, but I think even if we go our different ways, I wouldn't be able to conclude that I can't be in a polyamorous relationship, just that this situation wasn't right for me. There's a lot of aspects I've learned about polyamorous relationships that do sound really appealing!

I think you could step back on a lot of things.

Then even if better dates are still a work in progress, at least small dates are happening, and you aren't getting sucked dry by all this extra stuff you do that you actually don't need to be doing. YKWIM? But if the small dates are meh because of his attitude, skip it. I know it risks growing distant/growing apart/falling out of love. But if he doesn't wake up, that's the risk he is taking, alienating you, you tuning out, and you deciding you are done here because it's not especially nourishing.
It's definitely scary to consider, but there's also a huge part of me that finds these concepts very relieving too. It might be for the best too to skip out on meh dates... Restaurants definitely don't work for me post-surgery (not yet anyway) so it was just added stress that I could have avoided completely.

I want to add that, since finding the right counselor takes time, I've talked to my pcp and got a local human services I can call or visit anytime. Of course, they won't be specialized toward poly topics, but I think it'll help me stay grounded and help with the detangling process. Something to tide me over!


Oh! As for the monkey-branching concerns: I'm not sure? It's hard (for me) to tell if it's innocent rookie mistakes or actual monkey-branching.
 
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At the time, one of the things she said I was doing right, and she did with him, with the responsive listening things. (I was trained in communication skills like that through the organization I was working for, so I was familiar with it and already did it with him and the kids. At least, I tried.) She tried to get him to get familiar with this form of talking. Listen fully to your partner. Tell them back what you heard. They correct you if that's not what they meant. You tell them again what you understood to be their meanings. Then, and only then, do you share your side. And they have to sit there and listen, not interrupt. They wait until you're finished, repeat back, etc.
This is a lot more extensive than what I've been doing and it's going into my utility belt! 💖 Thank you!

He was also conflict avoidant. He'd go hide and play Warcraft for eight hours at a time.
Very familiar! Actually, I sent him a message recently about him someday talking to me about what the GF said and how he feels, agrees, or disagrees with any of it, but there was no response. Stonewalling happens a lot.

Therefore, our counselor dropped him. He hit a wall and that was that.
Ooh I see! Hopefully he someday seeks surpassing that for his own benefit...

It is a very common newbie mistake to do little to no research but if taken too far, it shows a certain selfishness, I think. My ex wasn't much of a reader in general, except the tech stuff he needed for his job. He took his lead from his gf-- her words were gold.
If someone isn't an avid reader, aren't there a bunch of youtube channels that offer a lot of information on polyamory? My husband isn't big on reading either.

My ex just wanted to focus on his gf and the sexy floaty NRE, and pretty much avoid all the hard stuff. A lot of the kids' needs were no longer important, paying bills and yard care and my car maintenance became my job. My older daughter had to get skillful with a screwdriver for odd jobs he wouldn't do. And he never grocery shopped, cooked, cleaned or did laundry-- heaven forbid! I even did his clothes shopping and made all his medical appointments, planned all the holidays and birthdays. Women's work! He worked an eight-hour day and that was ALL he needed to do.
Ohh wow that's a lot! I don't know how you lasted a year..!
My husband has fallen behind on a lot of stuff (like his motorcycle is about to spend its second winter outdoors) but he definitely hasn't reached this level.

I'm not bitter, btw, I am just listing what happened. He and I are on friendly co-parent, co-grandparent terms. We don't hang out unless one of our kids wants a family shindig to happen, like for their birthday or something, but we definitely don't fight or bitch at each other. I've moved on.
Bless your soul, I don't know how you aren't! It's good you're friendly co-parents + co-grandparents. Did therapy help a lot with this for you, or do you think it's naturally part of your personality?
 
Urraca said:
You sound annoyed with him for taking you for granted. (I would be too.) But are you also used to going on tiptoe, always worrying about how he MIGHT feel?
Yes, wait, is what I just said tiptoeing? I'm genuinely curious because I thought I was being sympathetic.

I don't know. I am not there, and I could totally be reading it wrong. But to me, it kinda sounds like it.

I wonder if sometimes you avoid getting annoyed/mad and expressing it directly, and then tiptoe around it by being ultra-sympathetic and making excuses for him, like, "Oh, he must be feeling ___. So I'll let it go/give him grace."

Some of that is fine. One wants to be kind to their partner and give reasonable grace. People are not perfect. At the same time, you have to be kind to yourself too, and not just be putting up with things repeatedly. It's okay to have a limit of tolerance and exercise personal boundaries.

Or maybe it's another way. I wonder if you tiptoe around him being super-sympathetic in the hopes he won't blow up at you or something.

Something seems off here somewhere, but you are the one there. You have to figure it out.

If he's not doing well with one partner, you, I'm not sure what makes him think he can handle balancing two partners. He won't read. He won't respect your limits on not oversharing TMI details. He's stonewalling. It's a lot.

Minor tangent, but I think even if we go our different ways, I wouldn't be able to conclude that I can't be in a polyamorous relationship, just that this situation wasn't right for me. There's a lot of aspects I've learned about polyamorous relationships that do sound really appealing!

It could be that you discover that don't like doing poly with HIM in your network, but you could do it with more compatible and considerate people.

It's definitely scary to consider, but there's also a huge part of me that finds these concepts very relieving too. It might be for the best too to skip out on meh dates... Restaurants definitely don't work for me post-surgery (not yet anyway) so it was just added stress that I could have avoided completely.

Good. I'm glad you feel some relief.

If you are not totally healed after surgery for going out to eat, give yourself relief in that area too. Skip them for now, or adjust the small dates to something more doable. Order delivery and watch a movie, play board games or do a puzzle at home, things you both like but that don't aggravate your healing process. After you heal you can expand the ideas.


I want to add that, since finding the right counselor takes time, I've talked to my pcp and got a local human services I can call or visit anytime. Of course, they won't be specialized toward poly topics, but I think it'll help me stay grounded and help with the detangling process. Something to tide me over!

I'm glad you are doing this for yourself. It can take time to find the right counselor.

Galagirl
 
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This is a lot more extensive than what I've been doing and it's going into my utility belt! 💖 Thank you!
The other thing is to use "I" statements. Like, "When you do X, I feel Y." Instead of being accusatory: "Why do you always do X, you asshole?" They can't argue with your feelings. You feel what you feel.
Very familiar! Actually, I sent him a message recently about him someday talking to me about what the GF said and how he feels, agrees, or disagrees with any of it, but there was no response. Stonewalling happens a lot.
Well, it doesn't have to be your business what his gf thinks or does. That's on his side. You just worry about your side. I never ask my partner what her OSO thinks about me. Why would that matter?
If someone isn't an avid reader, aren't there a bunch of YouTube channels that offer a lot of information on polyamory? My husband isn't big on reading either.
I don't think there is much really comprehensive info on YouTube, but people have said they like the podcast Multiamory. You could check that out.
Ohh wow, that's a lot! I don't know how you lasted a year..!
He got real passive aggressive after I pulled my veto card. He'd never done much housework, but after that, he stopped doing "men's work" too, like taking care of my car, cleaning the garage or basement, taking an interest in the garden/yard, puttering around doing small home maintenance or repair jobs...

A few years before we formerly separated I moved out of our shared bedroom, into the guest room. It felt great. We were still having sex regularly, something we both enjoyed, but we slept separately.
Bless your soul, I don't know how you aren't! It's good you're friendly co-parents + co-grandparents.
The thing was, I didn't hate him. He was cool in some ways, smart, fairly liberal, good work ethic/provider. He complimented my cooking, he had a good sense of humor and could still make me laugh sometimes. It wasn't all bad. In fact, I used to think it was 60% good and 40% bad, which made it hard to leave.

I heard that after we split he was doing some kinda male bonding/growth thing, a program called "Mankind." Maybe it eventually helped him some. I didn't really care. I didn't have to care anymore! :)
Did therapy help a lot with this for you, or do you think it's naturally part of your personality?
Our split was amicable. He had to give me half of our assets, plus alimony until he turned 65. He's not mean or anything. In fact, he's kind of ingratiating to me. I think in a way he knows he fucked up.
 
I wonder if sometimes you avoid getting annoyed/mad and expressing it directly, and then tiptoe around it by being ultra-sympathetic and making excuses for him, like, "Oh, he must be feeling ___. So I'll let it go/give him grace."
This is a lot to unpack and I've been thinking about it for a few days now... I do think I do this a lot, probably more than you'd count as "fine" but I need to think a lot more on why I do it and undoubtedly discuss it with a counselor. Thank you for pointing it out, it was something I didn't notice as being off!



If you are not totally healed after surgery for going out to eat, give yourself relief in that area too. Skip them for now, or adjust the small dates to something more doable. Order delivery and watch a movie, play board games or do a puzzle at home, things you both like but that don't aggravate your healing process. After you heal you can expand the ideas.
He's oddly difficult on those little activities unless it's a movie/tv show but I know that's not really something someone can magically change. He used to do them with me but this past year, it's been difficult finding things to share and do together... Regardless, you're right; it's very uncomfortable going to a restaurant, and I'm going to stop going until I'm able to eat more easily.

I've been tempted to pick up a puzzle to do myself, as I really do like making puzzles, but admittedly, I'm hoping he sees it and wants to join in. Is it generally a bad idea in polyam relationships to avoid doing things with any of that kind of hope attached to it?
 
Well, it doesn't have to be your business what his gf thinks or does. That's on his side. You just worry about your side. I never ask my partner what her OSO thinks about me. Why would that matter?
Hopefully in the future I can feel this way but since she doesn't know me face-to-face, all her information about me comes from my spouse. I think if she says that "all I do is bitch 90% of the time" then it's a reflection on what he actually thinks of me. Is that a bad way to look at it?

I don't think there is much really comprehensive info on YouTube, but people have said they like the podcast Multiamory. You could check that out.
Oh! Okay, that's good to know.

A few years before we formerly separated I moved out of our shared bedroom, into the guest room. It felt great. We were still having sex regularly, something we both enjoyed, but we slept separately.
It felt great? Is it the sense of independence that comes with this?

Our split was amicable. He had to give me half of our assets, plus alimony until he turned 65. He's not mean or anything. In fact, he's kind of ingratiating to me. I think in a way he knows he fucked up.
Ohh I see! I'm glad it was amicable then!
 
This is a lot to unpack and I've been thinking about it for a few days now... I do think I do this a lot, probably more than you'd count as "fine" but I need to think a lot more on why I do it and undoubtedly discuss it with a counselor. Thank you for pointing it out, it was something I didn't notice as being off!

It sounds like something to talk to a counselor about. Not everyone is comfortable, feeling healthy or expressing it appropriately. But being able to experience all your feelings is important. So is not making excuses for people when they step on your toes.
He's oddly difficult on those little activities unless it's a movie/tv show, but I know that's not really something someone can magically change. He used to do them with me, but this past year, it's been difficult finding things to share and do together...

Do you have to be the date idea person all the time? Does he not contribute date ideas?

Regardless, you're right; it's very uncomfortable going to a restaurant, and I'm going to stop going until I'm able to eat more easily.

Good. Prioritize healing from surgery.

I've been tempted to pick up a puzzle to do myself, as I really do like making puzzles,

So do puzzles because you like it. Check out online puzzles too. I like those because I can still puzzle, even with other people, and there's nothing to clean up. I can do many designs, I don't have to store them later, it's not taking up a table. Online puzzles will also "save my place" if I have to leave and come back later to open it again.

But admittedly, I'm hoping he sees it and wants to join in.

Is this another "tiptoe" thing?

If you need attention, you could ask for it directly. You could invite him to play. If he's not into puzzles, say you'd still like to do something together sometime and would be up for other things. What would he enjoy?

Is it generally a bad idea in polyam relationships to avoid doing things with any of that kind of hope attached to it?

I don't understand this sentence as written. Are you saying...
  • "Should I create situations to indirectly make a bid for his attention, or should I ask him directly if he wants to spend time together?"
  • "Should I avoid "hinting" in my relationships?"
  • "I am losing hope in this relationship."
  • "I fear being rejected or turned down in this relationship."
  • Something else?

Would you be willing to clarify? What exactly are you saying here?

GG
 
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Hopefully in the future I can feel this way, but since she doesn't know me face-to-face, all her information about me comes from my spouse. I think if she says that "all I do is bitch 90% of the time" then it's a reflection on what he actually thinks of me. Is that a bad way to look at it?

To me it's a mixed up way to look at it and is kinda twirly-whirly.

How about each person is responsible for their own stuff, their own feelings, their own thoughts, their own words, their own behaviors? And if you want to know what he thinks, you ASK HIM?

Do you "hint" a lot? Are you indirect a lot, and figure other people are too, so then you try to "read between the lines" when people say things to you, trying to see what the "hints" are, whether or not there actually are any hidden meanings in their communication?

I can't tell over the internet what you deal in. The thing with the GF calling you a bitch: is she doing that directly? Is he telling you she says that? What's going on? Is this proxy recruitment?

You don't have to care what his GF thinks of you. She can think whatever she wants, and you can keep your boundary of not wanting to talk about her, besides calendar/safer sex agreements.

Honestly, if some dude were telling me his other partner was a bitch 90% of the time, I'd wonder what was wrong with HIM. I'm not the free therapist. Why dump this crap on me? And if things suck that bad, why's he still with her then? Is he stupid? Or is it more like she's got reasonable requests and he wants to call her names so she will back off from making them? I'm not interested in drama people. I'd drop him.

Focus on your side of the V and your well being.
  • Why's he even telling you this, that his GF thinks you are a bitch? Is this a new way for him to be mean to you, using proxy recruitment?
  • If he thinks you are a bitch 90% of the time, why doesn't he ask for changes, or just break up with you?
  • Why are you with someone who thinks that you are bitchy 90% of the time? You could end it with him yourself.

I am concerned you are bending yourself around him, what he does, thinks, says, and losing your own sense of self. Is he treating you well? Is this a healthy relationship with him? Is there any abuse going on? Is any of that happening here, and you're tiptoeing, bending over backwards trying to be "extra nice," just so he'll at least stop some of the mean behavior, while hiding your own anger?

Is this whole "trying out polyamory for his sake" just part of some kind of placating thing you are doing, trying to "keep him happy" so he doesn't rain doom on you?

I'm not trying to be mean to you, I'm just genuinely concerned. I cannot tell if you are a poly newbie who really wants to be here doing this, or if you are just doing it "for him" and then suffering, or if this is putting the cart before the horse, because the relationship wasn't healthy to begin with. Why bother doing wonky poly on top?

There is nothing wrong with wanting monogamy. You are not obligated to try polyamory. You don't have to bend all into pretzels for him.

Do you have a counselor appointment soon?

Galagirl
 
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Hopefully in the future I can feel this way but since she doesn't know me face-to-face, all her information about me comes from my spouse. I think if she says that "all I do is bitch 90% of the time" then it's a reflection on what he actually thinks of me. Is that a bad way to look at it?
I'd say that's a reasonable way to look at it. But try to take the focus off of her and see what that says about the person you're married to. Does he think you're a bitch? Should he be telling his gf so many bad things about you, and then telling you that SHE agrees you're a bitch? This sounds pretty awful. If he hates you this much, and is trying to hurt you, this sounds like emotional abuse.

Is he ever nice to you? It sounds like he isn't.
It felt great? Is it the sense of independence that comes with this?
Yes, after all the years of discord, having my own pink girly bedroom felt so good, like a comfortable womb-like environment in which to lick my wounds and relax. My ex took it as a partial rejection of him, and it was. It was a boundary. I took a stand. I created some independence.
Ohh I see! I'm glad it was amicable then!
Yeah, my ex took responsibility for his actions. He'd had enough therapy to understand that the way he was treating me wasn't so much about me as it was about his own issues, low self-esteem, selfishness, fears, etc.
 
Hopefully in the future I can feel this way but since she doesn't know me face-to-face, all her information about me comes from my spouse. I think if she says that "all I do is bitch 90% of the time" then it's a reflection on what he actually thinks of me. Is that a bad way to look at it?
I'd say that's a reasonable way to look at it. But try to take the focus off of her and see what that says about the person you're married to. Does he think you're a bitch? Should he be telling his gf so many bad things about you, and then telling you that SHE agrees you're a bitch? This sounds pretty awful. If he hates you this much, and is trying to hurt you, this sounds like emotional abuse.
There’s also another way to look at it. I’m embarrassed to say, in the beginning I went from entwined and, even dare I say, codependent mono relationship to poly. My first partner after becoming poly, Michael, was the person I turned to for support while navigating ending codependency and untangling with my main partner, Louis. It was a difficult process for both Louis and me, and I wound up sharing hurtful things that were said or done-- essentially the worst side of Louis. Because of that, Michael thought he wasn’t a very good guy and had no interest in meeting him. I did tell him that Louis was a really cool guy and I knew they would hit it off, and apologized for oversharing, which colored his opinion of him.

They finally met after a year and it was a huge relief to Michael because Louis wasn’t the monster he imagined, based on what I was telling him. They are now great friends and everyone is considered family.

It might be the same for your hubby. Maybe he’s complaining about the things that annoy him after a decade of marriage, but which are not a reflection of who you are, or his love for you, and it’s coloring her opinion of you.

I agree that you need to talk to HIM and find out how he really feels. I don’t know if meeting her would help or not, but in my case it helped a TON! Michael got to see for himself that Louis was a really great guy.
 
And if you want to know what he thinks, you ASK HIM?
I've brought up both how I felt and asked him to talk to me about it and what was said and I've got nothing to show for it.

Do you "hint" a lot? Are you indirect a lot, and figure other people are too, so then you try to "read between the lines" when people say things to you, trying to see what the "hints" are, whether or not there actually are any hidden meanings in their communication?
I do agree with you that I tiptoe and bend over backwards to make excuses for this or that behavior a little too much but I'd say I'm a pretty blunt person. I honestly think I've said TOO much in conversations and too bluntly, if anything. I do say things like, "XYZ hurt my feelings. ABC is something I have no interest in."

But admittedly, yes, this month I've been quiet beside requesting his opinion on what happened with the GF. I think need to know if he just takes all I say as bitching before I put time and energy into expressing myself? Like if he does think that, then yeah, I don't know why I'm here :/

I can't tell over the internet what you deal in. The thing with the GF calling you a bitch: is she doing that directly? Is he telling you she says that? What's going on? Is this proxy recruitment?
I think we'd have to assume he made a very calculated scheme if so.. Basically, we were having a conversation on about our feelings and in it he requested that it'd be important to him if I reached out to GF sometime and just told her that I didn't hate her. I reached out to her the next morning with a nice message, stated honestly why I was messaging her and that I wish the best for the both of them, and in reply she demanded I apologize to her. I asked for what, and it turned into an argument from there in which she said that I bitch 90% of the time, that I do nothing in my relationship with my husband, that I'm making things harder for everyone, etc etc.

You don't have to care what his GF thinks of you. She can think whatever she wants, and you can keep your boundary of not wanting to talk about her, besides calendar/safer sex agreements.
Yeah, I'd like that! I don't really mind if she doesn't like me for her own reasons, but it's disheartening that it could be a reflection of what my husband thinks (although maybe Bobbi is right, one can only hope).

I am concerned you are bending yourself around him, what he does, thinks, says, and losing your own sense of self. Is he treating you well? Is this a healthy relationship with him? Is there any abuse going on? Is any of that happening here, and you're tiptoeing, bending over backwards trying to be "extra nice," just so he'll at least stop some of the mean behavior, while hiding your own anger?
I think it's just easier to not be angry if I can think up a reason for why it happened. He has unsavory behavior, like the stonewalling, but previously I've been clear when I'm upset.

Is this whole "trying out polyamory for his sake" just part of some kind of placating thing you are doing, trying to "keep him happy" so he doesn't rain doom on you?
I'm really not sure where I'm at. I definitely enjoyed monogamy but I'm still figuring out what I feel about polyamory. When he told me he wanted to date this person I accepted it because I didn't want to keep him like a caged bird. Not in fear of what he'd do to me if I didn't but in a "if you love someone then set them free" kind of way.

But it is nice to hear that it's ok if all I want is monogamy! I know if that is the case it'll be me striking out on my own.

Do you have a counselor appointment soon?
Health insurance headaches to solve first unfortunately... If I don't get to see a specialist soon, I will at least be seeing my surgery therapist in a few weeks. She's not specialized in polyamory subject matter, but marital issues are very common after this surgery, and there's a lot of road to cover on that subject regardless of the polyam factor, that's for sure...
 
Does he think you're a bitch?
I asked him for his opinion on all of this and specifically the bitch stuff and got nothing but a stonewall...

Is he ever nice to you? It sounds like he isn't.
I don't really know how to answer this... I feel like I'm having a hard time telling nice from bare minimum, as well as "it's the thought that counts" vs. "he should have known better than to do that." I'm going to think about this.

Yes, after all the years of discord, having my own pink girly bedroom felt so good, like a comfortable womb-like environment in which to lick my wounds and relax. My ex took it as a partial rejection of him, and it was. It was a boundary. I took a stand. I created some independence.
Oh, that does sound invigorating!
 
There’s also another way to look at it.

It's extremely nice to hear the other perspective on this! I think it is possible for that to be the case.

She is an online girlfriend (though they have met in person), so face-to-face with me and her isn't going to be a thing, but we have briefly chatted in the past, and it was amicable. Like how you might talk to someone you've never met before at a wedding: polite and simple. She wouldn't have enough from our conversations to form the detailed type of opinion she had/has of me, and I don't know if that also means she wouldn't have enough from our conversations to form a positive opinion of me either, and thus still be left with just his "9 years of marriage" level of venting.

I'd totally believe that if my husband told me something similar to what you went through, but he's given me nothing so far... I will keep what you said in mind as a possibility!
 
To be honest, it sounds like you need to leave this marriage.
 
I'm sorry that even if you ask directly he's avoiding/stonewalling/not being responsive. Sigh. It doesn't take long to say "No, I don't think you are actually a bitch."

I think need to know if he just takes all I say as bitching before I put time and energy into expressing myself? Like if he does think that, then yeah, I don't know why I'm here :/

I'm not sure why you are there either. It doesn't sound great. :(

When he told me he wanted to date this person I accepted it because I didn't want to keep him like a caged bird. Not in fear of what he'd do to me if I didn't but in a "if you love someone then set them free" kind of way.

I can understand that. But that doesn't mean you have to go along with it. It is possible to "set the bird free" and part ways decently if you don't want polyamory for yourself. It sounds like you wanted to figure out if poly were for you or not.

I'm really not sure where I'm at. I definitely enjoyed monogamy but I'm still figuring out what I feel about polyamory. When he told me he wanted to date this person I accepted it because I didn't want to keep him like a caged bird. Not in fear of what he'd do to me if I didn't but in a "if you love someone then set them free" kind of way.

But it is nice to hear that it's ok if all I want is monogamy! I know if that is the case it'll be me striking out on my own.

There is nothing wrong with wanting monogamy. If you want that, you can strike out on your own. If you want better polyamory than this, you can also strike out on your own. Just because you two were married for a long time doesn't mean you are automatically compatible to practice polyamory together.

I don't really know how to answer this... I feel like I'm having a hard time telling nice from bare minimum, as well as "it's the thought that counts" vs. "he should have known better than to do that." I'm going to think about this.

Here is the healthy relationship wheel. I consider that the bare minimum.


... Health insurance headaches to solve first, unfortunately. If I don't get to see a specialist soon, I will at least be seeing my surgery therapist in a few weeks. She's not specialized in polyamory subject matter, but marital issues are very common after this surgery, and there's a lot of road to cover on that subject, regardless of the polyam factor, that's for sure...

Please focus on your healing. If a surgery therapist appointment is coming soon, talk to them. Most of this is not especially poly. It's a husband who won't communicate and maybe doesn't treat you well. That can happen in any marriage, not just poly ones.

Galagirl
 
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