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Mong

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So, our story. We have been trying since March to have ourselves working out. We have come across a couple of hickups and argued somewhat, but most issues have been resolved since we read some books on communication.

Originally, my wife had asked for permission to be sexually active online with friends and i agreed, thinking it was no big deal (back in March). I started to realize that i was getting jealous and wanted to be involved. My wife wants total privacy to fool around online with a friend ahe has known six years and assures me it will not go on beyond that.

I started to get jealous as they talk most mornings after i leave for work for short periods of time and fliet, but nothing happens. This is what she tells me. Weekends she will ask me to leave if i feel okay and she get on with her online fling. I started to get jealous as i felt left out, there is no transparency and she does not want me involved in anyway, or doesnt want me to be introduced to her online lover. I felt like she was starting to ignore me sexually too, because it was never a good time. Rejection fed assumptions for me and i started to disrespect her boundaries with her 100% total privacy and asked questions often. I had asked not to be forgotten and some transparency, my wifes word only.

Coming forward, i read some books, and we talked for weeks, and things have settled. We are now at a point where she feels confident in my handeling of things that i have permission too now to go out into the real world where she doesnt it doesnt interest her. I have not done anything yet, i just like the idea of the freedom and will start experimenting soon when i feel ready.

Betond that i am just feeling left out still, as what i want from my wife she isnt interested in and doesnt want it. I can reapect this. I feel stuck in this sense and not aure what to do. I want this to feel for me as we are doing this open-relationship together, not just given permission and do it independently. My partner wants 100% seperation between what we do and what shes doing alone and thats the part i struggle with.

Advise welcome regards, mong
 
Hi Mong,

It sounds like you want to do things together, while your wife wants to do things separately. How strongly do the two of you feel about this? If you both feel very strongly, that is an outright incompatibility and you may have to break up over it. If you don't want to break up, you will need to figure out some kind of compromise. Like maybe your wife could join you in some of your "real world" dates, while retaining her total privacy while online. That's one idea anyway. You really need to devote some thought to this, you and your wife are bumping up against a fundamental incompatibility, like a brick wall between the two of you. Think about what that means for you.

Hopefully others will post here too, and I'll try to think of some other ideas.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Yes, it is quite a considerable difference that we are trying to work out. She considers the privacy as "trust", but will reapond to questions, but there is some doubt my end. Obviously, im human and will weigh up the pros and cons, but theres only so much.
 
Well let me ask you this. Do you trust your wife?

Like, when she responds to your questions, do you feel like you can believe her answers? Maybe this is your sticking point.
 
This is a continuation because i couldnt edit my post.: before assumptions start to kick in drive feelings. Also, some people have even said im stupid and that my wife is playing me for a fool because of the privacy, shes cheating with permission or doesn't love me as shes having an affair and i don't see it. Im trying to remain in reality and not assume. Yes i trust her, but there is doubt for these reasons.
 
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Are you worried that she is having an affair?
 
kdt26417 said:
Are you worried that she is having an affair?
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Previously yes, then after some conversations no. What was concerning was the total privacy and lack of transparency other than her word. Then i asked myself do i trust her, the answer is yes, but there is some doubt. I cannot shake the feeling that being her primary partner there doesn't seem to be any room for more transparency in order to comfort my mind. Im trying to draw liness between reapect, bundaries and my owns stability. She seems to think it will get better for me once shes more comfortable and i start seeing people.:confused:
 
Remember, it's not just your wife's privacy at stake here; there's someone else involved too. Your wife's partner is entirely within their rights to expect privacy within their own relationship.
 
I am going to say this as nicely as possible...

Her sharing the nitty gritty details of her other relationship is an invasion of privacy of her other partner. Murf would be extremely angry if I shared intimate details of our relationship with Butch. Just because you are married to her doesn't mean you get to be apart of their relationship.
 
Thanks for the response. I couldnt agree more with what has been mentioned. However, realizing that no situation is positively axiomatic in our favor, i am hoping it leads there at some point. I am searching tools amd reflecting on this, and part of that is the reason i am here sharing this to realize my circumstances in greater depth snd get some input. So, i appreciate your feedback. I am also trying to figure our what will work, as both of us want this lifestyle for different reasons.
 
Your definition of "transparency" is different from mine, and, it seems, different from your wife's as well. That's the problem with words like "transparency"; they don't necessarily mean the same thing to everyone.

To me, transparency means honesty. It means, for one thing, that I expect to be told certain things about my partners' other relationships without having to ask. Those things include that a new relationship is beginning and that sex has occurred for the first time in a relationship. I don't ask for or want details, just the fact that it's a thing. And these things I expect to be told are either things my partner and I agreed on at the beginning of our relationship, or things I realized later on that I needed, asked for, and got an agreement on from my partner.

Transparency/honesty also means that if I ask a direct question, I get a direct and truthful answer, even if my partner thinks it's something I won't actually want to hear.

What transparency does *not* mean to me is getting to read or see my partners' interactions with other partners. It does *not* mean being given details about relationships in which I am not involved. And it definitely does *not* mean being involved in my partners' other relationships.

"Cheating with permission" is a bullshit phrase, in my opinion. Cheating by definition involves a lack of knowledge on the part of the person being cheated on, or at the very least a lack of agreement to the other relationship. If I were seeing other people and my husband didn't know, I would be cheating. If I told my husband I wanted to see other people, he said "I'm not okay with you doing that," and I did it anyway, in my opinion I would be cheating. But if I say I want to see other people and my husband says "Okay," I'm not cheating, regardless of how he feels about the situation. He has given his agreement to it happening.

("Permission" is a problematic thing anyway. I don't need anyone's "permission" to do anything I choose with my own body. My husband has never given "permission" for me to see others, and in fact when I first started seeing others, he got angry with me for asking "Is it okay if I do this"... he didn't WANT to give permission, because as he put it, he is not my parent. He wanted me to ask for and listen to his *opinion*, but "permission" was not a thing.)

If you trust your wife, trust her. You don't need to see, hear, read, etc. every single interaction she has in order to trust her. If you *do* need that, it seems to me you have some serious trust/insecurity issues that you might consider addressing through therapy. It isn't your wife's job to make you feel better about what she's doing, and it certainly isn't her other partner's job to let you in on private conversations so you can feel better. As others have pointed out, by trying to insist on being part of your wife's other relationship, you are invading someone else's privacy. Think about how you would feel if your wife gave her other partner every single detail of your marriage, including word-for-word every conversation the two of you have, WITHOUT asking you if it's okay for her to share that and WITHOUT telling you she's sharing it. That's what you're asking her to do with this other relationship.

Why do you feel that you need to be part of your wife's other relationship(s)? Why is it necessary for you to do the open marriage thing *together*? What's wrong with having separate relationships with others and having your individual lives? You aren't one entity, you're two. Why do you struggle with letting your wife be an individual having an individual relationship with someone else? (Those are all genuine questions; I'm not trying to call you out.)
 
Hi, Mong.

My questions to you are going to be along similar lines to what KC asked you, above. They're not accusations, just a way for the forum to better understand what it is you seek from non-monogamy/poly, and hopefully so YOU can gain a better understanding of your own reasons and feelings on the matter.

Mong said:
Originally, my wife had asked for permission to be sexually active online with friends and i agreed, thinking it was no big deal (back in March).
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Unless you and/or your wife were already non-monogamous, or knew in your heart/s that you'd always wanted to be... WHY did you NOT consider it a big deal when she let you know she wanted to enter sexual relationships with others? :confused:

This is a fundamental change in any previously monogamous, long-term relationship, and as such, it almost always brings up feelings of jealousy, insecurity, and issues that require in-depth discussion and formalised agreements, before proceeding - at least in the initial stages.


I started to realize that i was getting jealous and wanted to be involved.
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When you say you "wanted to be involved", can you clarify what you mean by that? Involved HOW?

- Do you want/need your wife to give you more details about any relationship she may be conducting outside of the marriage (in this case online)?

- If so, do you want her to share certain information only when you ASK for it, or would you prefer she volunteer the basics without you having to ask?

- What KIND of information do you need about her other relationships to make you feel more secure/comfortable/less jealous? (Do you want to know the name/s of the people concerned... how serious they're getting... if sexts/nudes/video is being exchanged... if they are contemplating meeting in person... if they have sex in person... if they're being safe? etc.)

- OR -

- Do you actually want your wife to share/show you messages, texts, emails, video footage she shares with the other people, or messages etc., that they send her?

- Do you want to be able to contact the person/people involved yourself (be allowed access to their email address, phone number, social media accounts or dating site/apps she uses, in order to get to know the people concerned, and possibly have some sort of dialogue with them?

- Or do you believe your wife (and the other party) should allow you to be PART of their relationship in such a way that you get to view/participate in their sexual activities? i.e. You want some kind of online group scenario, or even real life group sex with your wife and her other lover/s?


My wife wants total privacy to fool around online with a friend ahe has known six years and assures me it will not go on beyond that.

Weekends she will ask me to leave if i feel okay and she get on with her online fling.
Click to expand...

It is probably your insecurity talking, but it sounds like you're minimising, or trivialising whatever relationships your wife is engaging in by terming it "fooling around" or an "online fling".

I'm not sure if your wife is only interested in, or participating in light sexual banter, full-on cyber sex, or has an emotional connection with this other friend. But if you've had serious discussions about opening up your marriage, and you have agreed to this, then it'd probably work in your favour to treat these relationships seriously and respectfully.

She has no obligation to "introduce" you to her online lover, or consent to your involvement in her other relationships... especially if she AND her other partner/s do not want this.

However, if she DOES decide to transition from online-only to real world sexual relationships with others, then I believe you have the right to know some basic information, such as who the person is (and minimal background, especially if they're going to be coming into your home) and details of safe sex practices, so that you can make sure YOU are also protected.

If she refuses point blank to offer you even the most basic of details, then you'd be right to be concerned and suspect something might be amiss.


My wife wants total privacy to fool around online with a friend ahe has known six years and assures me it will not go on beyond that.

i have permission too now to go out into the real world where she doesnt it doesnt interest her.
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So you have discussed the subject of you becoming involved with others also, and your wife has agreed that you may engage in these relationships in a real world physical sense. However, SHE herself has no interest in having sexual relationships with other people IN PERSON and would prefer to confine her own extra-martial sexual activity to the online world... is this correct?

If that is so... then there is really no way you two can be "involved" in each other's relationships, given that you want/need different things from poly/non-monogamy. And that is before we've taken the other partners' feelings into account! It is NOT unusual for Other Significant Others to have no, or minimal contact with their metamours.

Sometimes a friendly rapport will develop, it's true - but only if ALL parties are open to that. Again, it is fairly unlikely that the OSO will also desire sexual contact with YOU in a group sex or voyeuristic scenario. You'd be wise not to expect it. You may WANT to "do this together", but your wife and/or the other party may NOT, and you should not try to coerce or emotionally blackmail them into it.


I felt like she was starting to ignore me sexually too, because it was never a good time. Rejection fed assumptions for me and i started to disrespect her boundaries with her 100% total privacy and asked questions often. I had asked not to be forgotten and some transparency, my wifes word only.

Betond that i am just feeling left out still, as what i want from my wife she isnt interested in and doesnt want it. I can reapect this. I feel stuck in this sense and not aure what to do.
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It's good that you respect whatever it is your wife is NOT into sexually. But it does sound to me like you two have some basic sexual incompatibilities that MAY not all be the result of this new situation.

Do you think this is WHY your wife wants to have other online sexual relationships... because you are both into different things in the bedroom? Do you fear her other partner/s can satisfy her better than you can? Clearly, she is not satisfying YOU sexually right now. Does she realise this, and is it why she suggested/agreed to you taking other lovers if you so desire?
 
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Mong said:
Originally, my wife had asked for permission to be sexually active online with friends and i agreed, thinking it was no big deal (back in March). I started to realize that i was getting jealous and wanted to be involved. My wife wants total privacy to fool around online with a friend ahe has known six years and assures me it will not go on beyond that.
Click to expand...

Was this like some sort of on line swinging. Cyber sex only ?? Go beyond that meaning an emotional relationship ?



I started to get jealous as they talk most mornings after i leave for work for short periods of time and fliet, but nothing happens. This is what she tells me. Weekends she will ask me to leave if i feel okay and she get on with her online fling. I started to get jealous as i felt left out, there is no transparency and she does not want me involved in anyway, or doesnt want me to be introduced to her online lover. I felt like she was starting to ignore me sexually too, because it was never a good time. Rejection fed assumptions for me and i started to disrespect her boundaries with her 100% total privacy and asked questions often. I had asked not to be forgotten and some transparency, my wifes word only.
Click to expand...
To me this looks like classic NRE ...and or poly hell ....id read up on both and suggest she reads up on both as well.


Coming forward, i read some books, and we talked for weeks, and things have settled. We are now at a point where she feels confident in my handeling of things that i have permission too now to go out into the real world where she doesnt it doesnt interest her. I have not done anything yet, i just like the idea of the freedom and will start experimenting soon when i feel ready.
Click to expand...

She confident in your handling her relationship of shes confident in how you will conduct your own dating ??

Have you discussed hiw this might effect her. Are you confident how she’ll handle you dating and having sex with others ?


Betond that i am just feeling left out still, as what i want from my wife she isnt interested in and doesnt want it. I can reapect this. I feel stuck in this sense and not aure what to do. I want this to feel for me as we are doing this open-relationship together, not just given permission and do it independently. My partner wants 100% seperation between what we do and what shes doing alone and thats the part i struggle with.

Advise welcome regards, mong
Click to expand...

Not sure i understand what you mean by 100% seperatin between what we do and what she does ? Can you give example?
 
Welcome Mong,

I'm not sure this is a polyamorous situation. But it's definitely non-monogamy, which is related.

I've got nothing but questions.

Is your wife in love with her online friend?

Is her friend male or female?

Is your wife bisexual? Are you?

When you say "do polyamory together," do you mean threesomes/group sex?

Do you realise most polyamorists do NOT do group sex? Most keep each dyad separate. Triads are very hard to do.

Do you think what you really want is swinging or the cuckolding fetish? You want group sex, to either watch your wife have sex (with a male or a female, or both?), to actually have sex yourself with another person simultaneously with your wife, either online or in real life?

Are you actually trying to control and limit your wife's sexuality by inserting yourself into her relationship with her online friend/flirt partner/cybersex partner?

Do you think the only way there's "anything in it for you" is to share in the sex your wife is or may be having? (Nothing wrong with feeling this way, it's very common in people new to poly, including myself back when I started in 1999).
 
Others have already given good suggestions. I'm going to give you a bullet list in case it helps you to see it organized that way. Like a summary in my own words of what you write. Hopefully I hit all the main points. You tell me if I miss any. I quote just to visually block it off.

BACKGROUND
  • You and wife are married.
  • At this time, you guys are trying on an Open marriage. You Opened in March of this year. So about 8 weeks in or so.
    • She gets to have have online relationships/cybersex. She is not interested in dating “in person.” She has already started exploring online relationships.
    • You get to date “in person.” You have not done anything yet. You like the idea of the freedom and will start experimenting soon when you feel ready.


MAIN PROBLEM

  • Dating other people doesn't resolve the need for connection with wife. Or the need to make sure (you + wife) are solid before you start trying to form new relationships with others. Because it would suck to feel the (you + wife) layer is shaky and then the (You + new partner) layer is shaky too. Then you have "double load" problems rather than "single load."

These are the main areas that bother you in the (you + wife) relationship right now.

NEED FOR CONNECTION

You feel lonely. You want to connect with wife sexually and through conversation.

Sex
  • Your attempts to initiate sex are turned down. Reason given is “not a good time.” Has wife suggested a better time?
  • You want X sexually (?). Wife is not into that. You can respect that. But then feel stuck.

Talk

  • You want more talk with wife. Problem is that the new thing in her life she doesn't want to share details on. You struggle with that. It is it's own area of concern.

Dating

  • Do you and wife date too?

How do you normally connect before this? Is some of it that you guys stopped dating each other and fell into a life rut? Taking each other for granted and not really courting each other any more?

Is some of this discomfort from the disentanglement process?

NEED FOR INCLUSION

You want to be included. You feel left out because...

  • You want to do "open marriage together" where she wants 100% separation between (you + her) and (her +online relationships.)
  • She will not give you "transparency." You want to hear about ____ and she does not want you involved in any way.
  • She will respond to questions.

What does "together" mean to you? You are ok with her online relationships if she later tells you cybersex details to get you off? You want to see people in real life and then have her date them too or do group sex? Something else?

What do you want transparency about? Who she is seeing online? That she uses safer sex practices as they apply to cybersex? Something else?

NEED FOR REASSURANCE + COMFORT YOUR MIND

You worry/have doubts/struggle with assumptions. You do not think she's having an affair at this point in time. What you want is to put your mind at ease with all these new changes.

What was concerning was the total privacy and lack of transparency other than her word.
Click to expand...

  • What more do you need than her word to help reassure you? You want to see her cel phone texts or computer conversations? Something else?

What do you need to START OR STOP DOING to prevent reassurance from dwindling away/bring your mind comfort?
  • Stop talking to other people who tell you stuff like she' cheating, gonna leave you, etc.? (I mean, she could. In the sense than anything is possible. But why harp on it? Does anything in your wife's past behavior or character suggest that she's untrustworthy?)

  • Stop talking to wife about it so much? Because if she wants 100% separation, and she's seeing people when you go to work... what do you need to hear about it daily for? Could a weekly or monthly check in be enough/better? Often enough so you feel included/informed. Less often enough so you aren't cranked up daily?

  • Start talking to wife about breaking up. Not that you want to do that. But if some of the anxiety is “I don't know what I would do if she left me!” – you could sort all that out. So you DO know what to do. Whether a formal postnuptial agreement or informal. She would get these bank accounts, you would get those. She would get this property. You would get these. And so on.
  • Start talking to more people so you have a larger support system? Like...Is wife your main emotional support person for all things? Do you need to strengthen your support network so you aren't limited to just wife? Like normally with your problems you go to wife for some help. But this problem is ABOUT wife so going to her to help you with a problem with your wife is ... weird or possibly counterproductive?
Click to expand...

There's some of my suggestions in there, but is this where it is mostly at?

Anything missing? Anything else you need? Here is a need inventory.

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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