New way to love-- opening my marriage

[moiandre]

I am glad even just the first therapy session helped Island Queen. It must have felt good to be able to open up and express her experiences and feelings to an impartial party!

It was and she has not stopped talking!!

I hope Red Beauty will make an appointment too, sooner rather than later.

Me too.

I am not sure about setting boundaries and permissions around who can do what sexually... I guess sometimes people new to poly do this. It could be considered a baby step or training wheels. But hopefully, eventually, poly people get to trusting each other enough that no one person can tell another dyad what they can and can't do.

I think the boundaries are considerate. Just like kink preferences; always check in and know the do's and don'ts.

We don't tell what we can and can't do. It was a round table sober discussion of expectations. For example, I don't like kissing Red Beauty; Island Queen doesn't like seeing me kiss Red Beauty, so we agreed Ï won't kiss her. Fair, respectful and reasonable, because we trust each other enough to discuss even the small issues.

 

[Evie]

Is this a V or is this a triad? I'm a little lost.

 

[River]

I think the boundaries are considerate. just like kink preferences; always check in and know the do's and don'ts.
We don't tell what we can and can't do. It was a round table sober discussion of expectations. For example, I don't like kissing Red Beauty; Island Queen doesn't like seeing me kiss Red Beauty, so we agreed Ï won't kiss her. Fair, respectful and reasonable, because we trust each other enough to discuss even the small issues.

Right. Moving from poly-sexery to polyamory is a journey, and we can't learn it all at once -- any more than we can learn all of chess or gardening in a weekend workshop. It's perfectly understandable.

I'm a polyamorous person by deep inclination and core sensibilities. So I look at the world differently from most newcomers to polyamory, who will gradually learn, each in their own and unique ways, what it means to be both loving and erotic.

 

[moiandre]

Is this a V or is this a triad? I'm a little lost.

a triad with a very strong V center being Island Queen for the both of us.

 

[Evie]

And closed, right? You're not ever going to date someone else?

 

[Magdlyn]

I think the boundaries are considerate. just like kink preferences; always check in and know the do's and don'ts.
We don't tell what we can and can't do. It was a round table sober discussion of expectations. For example, I don't like kissing Red Beauty; Island Queen doesn't like seeming me kiss Red Beauty, so we agreed Ï won't kiss her. Fair, respectful and reasonable, because we trust each other enough to discuss even the small issues.

How does Red Beauty feel about you "not liking" to kiss her? Is that not important? Has she expressed her feelings? Is this fair, respectful and reasonable to her? Can she kiss Island Queen?

Why don't you like to kiss Red Beauty? Because you feel it's a betrayal of some kind of special things between you and Island Queen? That is hierarchical. Will that be a forever rule, or temporary? Or do you just not think she's attractive for kissing, but good for fucking?

I once broke up with a guy after just three dates because, after we had a kiss on our 1st date, and sex and kissing on our 2nd date, on our 3rd date he told me his gf didn't want him kissing other women. So he could have sex with me, but not kiss me... I was like, can you give me oral sex? Yes, he said. Can you kiss my breasts? Yes. Can you kiss my arms, shoulders, neck? Yes. But not my mouth? No.

I found that very unnatural (not to mention insulting). I didn't even know how it could be done without seeming hella awkward. So I told him we were done. He was upset, but he didn't want to upset his gf, so that was that.

 

[moiandre]

And closed, right? You're not ever going to date someone else?

Yep, closed, but we review, and understand changes can occur.

 

[moiandre]

How does Red Beauty feel about you "not liking" to kiss her? Is that not important? Has she expressed her feelings? Is this fair, respectful and reasonable to her? Can she kiss Island Queen?

Yes, we all kiss. She can kiss Island Queen. It is a preference for them both to kiss each other. I don't like to do something, and they both know and accept that. Red Queen also prefers to kiss Island Queen only. So we don't have an issue, and we've discussed this respectfully.

Why don't you like to kiss Red Beauty? Because you feel it's a betrayal of some kind of special things between you and Island Queen? That is hierarchical. Will that be a forever rule, or temporary? Or do you just not think she's attractive for kissing, but good for fucking?

It is not a betrayal thing. I think Island Queen sees it as a betrayal thing-- jealousy pops up-- but she is working on that. I don't like how she kisses. We three have talked about this. It's really really soft-- like a lukewarm kiss? It never feels intimate to me, but to Island Queen it is fresh light and intimate. So it's their thing. I don't need to intrude on that.

She is a different attractive, certainly not my type, but very lovely and considerate. Sex with her is very very different than with my wife, a new experience to be celebrated. It's not just fucking.

I once broke up with a guy after just 3 dates because, after we had a kiss on our first date, and sex and kissing on our 2nd date, on our 3rd date he told me his gf didn't want him kissing other women. So he could have sex with me, but not kiss me... I was like, can you give me oral sex? Yes, he said. Can you kiss my breasts? Yes. Can you kiss my arms, shoulders, neck? Yes. But not my mouth? No.

I found that very unnatural (not to mention insulting). I didn't even know how it could be done without seeming hella awkward. So I told him we were done. He was upset, but he didn't want to upset his gf, so that was that.

I'm sorry to hear he had his wings clipped by his girlfriend and it insulted you. which I totally understand. I'm not a cuck being told what, where, when and/or how. We've discussed the intimacy of certain acts-- what feels good, what we each like to see and do, and kissing on the mouth was just it. I can kiss Red Beauty. I can do anything she is comfortable with, even things suggested by my wife, that she herself isn't prepared to do, but wants me to experience, now we are in this triad.

So, it's a learning curve. Maybe I'll start to like kissing Red Beauty, just like her different tastes, smells, mannerisms, humor and vulnerabilities. We are communicating openly, tackling disparities of expectations, and doing things I didn't even consider when we started, so it is nicer, better and joyful for us all.

 

[moiandre]

So, a timely update.

Island Queen has had a couple of therapy sessions and is now getting much better at asking about emotional needs and time needs.

We all chat fairly regularly on the group chat and are sleeping at Red Beauty's this weekend. My effort will be to make this time as a friends-only catch-up, because we want to discuss time needs for all concerned. NRE for the two of them remains fairly strong. Red Beauty and Island Queen want some dedicated time together.

Close family friends are picking up on the vibe that we are not 100% super strong in love and are less "lovey dovey" than they are used to, and have challenged Island Queen over this. I remember our behavior and it was because Red Beauty was over at a family event, so I was much more aloof.

Island Queen was a bit distressed and will keep this type of feeling to discuss with the therapist in a month, but no doubt I will be blamed. This sort of happened, but I reminded her of why we are in this situation and that these are likely consequences and actions/discussions we will be needing to have in the future, maybe with our kids and other close friends. They suspect her of cheating and me not knowing, so I appreciate the predicament Island Queen is in.

All in all, I would like to see/feel a similar effort for dates, wanting to catch up and not just being there for a quickie, or feeling like she feels obliged-- because she is going out for drinks and a catch-up.

Cheers all.

 

[Magdlyn]

...update.

Island Queen has had a couple of therapy sessions and is now getting much better at asking about emotional needs and time needs.

We all chat fairly regularly on the group chat and are sleeping at Red Beauty's this weekend. My effort will be to make this time as a friends-only catch-up, because we want to discuss time needs for all concerned. NRE for the two of them remains fairly strong. Red Beauty and Island Queen want some dedicated time together.

So you won't partake in threeway sex, but you'll give the women alone time for sex?

Close family friends are picking up on the vibe that we are not 100% super strong in love and are less "lovey dovey" than they are used to,

and have challenged Island Queen over this. I remember our behavior, and it was because Red Beauty was over at a family event, so I was much more aloof.

You mean you and Island Queen used to be more affectionate in public, but you're refraining for some reason... maybe so Red Beauty won't be envious and won't feel as much like your little secret?

Island Queen was a bit distressed and will keep this type of feeling to discuss with the therapist in a month, but no doubt I will be blamed.

You'll be blamed? Yikes. I guess when you (plural) have a secret lover and are with people who aren't aware, it takes a certain kind of behavior to keep all the partners happy, but the uninformed ones out of the loop! I don't know how to negotiate that. I've never really had to do it, since my family members know I am poly (and queer).

This sort of happened, but I reminded her of why we are in this situation and that these are likely consequences and actions/discussions we will be needing to have in the future, maybe with our kids and other close friends. They suspect her of cheating and me not knowing, so I appreciate the predicament Island Queen is in.

So you weren't affectionate to Island Queen, but there was observable sexual tension between the women in front of these people?

All in all, I would like to see/feel a similar effort for dates, wanting to catch up, and not just being there for a quickie, like she feels obliged-- because she is going out for drinks and a catch-up.

Island Queen isn't making you feel valued because she's so swept up in obsessive NRE for Red Beauty?

 

[MeeraReed]

There isn't a lot in this thread considering Red Beauty's point of view.

I don't understand why your triad/V has to be closed. If Red Beauty wanted to date other people, for example to find another serious partner of her own who isn't married to someone else, would she be able to do that?

It's okay for you and your wife to decide that neither of you wants to date other people and/or you're not okay with a completely open marriage. That's fine if that works for you. But it's not okay to decide that for Red Beauty. Did she agree to be in a closed semi-triad V? What are her goals for her own life and relationships?

 

[moiandre]

So you won't partake in threeway sex, but you'll give the women alone time for sex?

I do partake, but I know depending on how long they have been apart - I do give them space. basically if we are at Red Beauty house - I am the guest and vice versa; we discussed this so it is fairer we feel. so the couples privilege is based on who's home we are in as a courtesy - I abide by her rules (if any).

You mean you and Island Queen used to be more affectionate in public, but you're refraining for some reason... maybe so Red Beauty won't be envious and won't feel as much like your little secret?

I am not sure.
I think it was more subconscious and friends pick up on it - as I did when I picked up on Island Queen's fawning/desire ; a connection stronger and different to her other female friends.

You'll be blamed? Yikes. I guess when you (plural) have a secret lover and are with people who aren't aware, it takes a certain kind of behavior to keep all the partners happy, but the uninformed ones out of the loop! I don't know how to negotiate that. I've never really had to do it, since my family members know I am poly (and queer).

Yes, it is tricky. Poly is so new, then their is the mindset when I have had a drink or two, that my wife loves someone other than me - so my actions and words may give the game (secret) away - because ultimately I'd love for everyone to understand.

So you weren't affectionate to Island Queen, but there was observable sexual tension between the women in front of these people?

No sexual tension. I was blamed for being "aloof" - less public displays of affection PDA's - which i can see retrospectively. When Red Beauty is at an event I wasn't ready for, in front of our friends and - specifically my family (Parents in their 70's) - I occupy my time away from Island Queen - because I saw it as I wanted my girlfriends over. It is very convenient for Red Beauty to "pop in - be included" our house is on her way home - so sharing a meal, and last minute invites happen. I like to be forewarned, plan and prepare.

Island Queen isn't making you feel valued because she's so swept up in obsessive NRE for Red Beauty?

Pretty much - and I can only keep highlighting the fact. She has been aware of this since the start of the year - and I've organised all the dates/outings etc for us this year. Red Beauty has organised her dates with Island Queen. Island Queen details when her schedule lines up with Red Beauty. I tend to get, the impromptu - lets do X.
these are wonderful, but I might seem needy - I like to build the anticipation, and look forward to the date/meal/location.

Comparted to knowing every school holidays, 1 week will be their "alone" together time, and every fortnight "date/alone", and I'm feeling like I get fit in.
I'm a given, at home cooking meals, supporting her journey and understanding of new love - but I don't think it is too much to try and make me feel special!! Sorry - I'm having a whine - we've only had sex if it is the three of us, or 1-2 days before she is having alone time - it feels like pity sex - and I've told her this.

thanks again for your support - happy for any ways to tackle improving fairness and recognizing if the NRE is coming to an end!!

 

[moiandre]

There isn't a lot in this thread considering Red Beauty's point of view.

We know Red Beauty's history and she is complicated, and doesn't express her needs as well as we would both hope - but we do communicate quite well - please feel free to ask and I can elaborate as best as I can on her behalf/perspective - as I see it.

Red Beauty was happy to be invited to our house for a family and friends get together.
She acts and behaves like our friend (which she is) with no sexual tension/acts etc in front of my parents of our common family friends (our children's' God Parents). They - the girls all organised a girls night out - so she does fit in nicely.

I don't understand why your triad/V has to be closed. If Red Beauty wanted to date other people, for example to find another serious partner of her own who isn't married to someone else, would she be able to do that?

Yes she can.
As it stands with Red Beauty previous relationships - she has been used by men for sex. Her husband died of cancer 6 years ago. This is her first relationship with a woman, and being accepted by us with love - that isn't self serving. She is going to a psychologist soon (middle of this month) to work through her new feelings, love, grief and what a relationship can look like as well as her sense of self-worth: she always puts herself down.

NOTE: we've actually seen how much happier she is lately in herself, her looks and giving up smoking (almost stopped).

It's okay for you and your wife to decide that neither of you wants to date other people and/or you're not okay with a completely open marriage. That's fine if that works for you. But it's not okay to decide that for Red Beauty. Did she agree to be in a closed semi-triad V? What are her goals for her own life and relationships?

She has agreed to be in a closed Triad/V.

We have said she can go and find someone if she so wants; and if she does she will tell us, because of STI's etc. We do not tell her she can't - it is her choice and she is very happy and in love with Island Queen and what we do together. She has said she loves me, moreso sexually and emotionally than romantically. I'm in a similar boat. With out Island Queen there would not have been a Red Beauty and me - in my opinion , just platonic/emotional friends - no sex.

The Closed Marriage is our current topic-It's a bit like the role reversal conversation I have with my wife.

I might fall for someone too; are you ok and/or ready for that? In her heart she wants to say a firm NO.
But her brain tells her, if it happened to her, it could happen to me an she needs to be aware / accepting of that - she wasn't looking for it - it just happened.
So she has to manage her feelings and actions in a away that she may have to decide to walk away if she can't handle it? (not that I'm looking).

These have been tense conversation starters, and haven't been fully worked through by the both of us.
We are both 50, very much in love with each other and not looking anywhere - hence why our current position is so new.
WE discuss these things in front / with Red Beauty too - and she thinks we need to remain open to the possibility especially given where the three of us are now.
I am happy Red Beauty makes Island Queen happy (and vice versa) - despite wanting a bit more of the NRE action for myself!!

 

[Magdlyn]

Good analysis!

I highly highly recommend you read SquishyHusk's blog here. His situation is SO similar to yours. You both might learn something from each other! He's been in his triad for just over a year. Remember, we have a DM function here, so it's easy to connect one-on-one.

https://polyamory.com/threads/trying-out-a-triad.155709/

 

[moiandre]

t

Good analysis!

I highly highly recommend you read SquishyHusk's blog here. His situation is SO similar to yours. You both might learn something from each other! He's been in his triad for just over a year. Remember, we have a DM function here, so it's easy to connect one-on-one.

https://polyamory.com/threads/trying-out-a-triad.155709/

Hi Mags, thanxs- I have read all of those posts. It's a lucky situation, especially with a younger woman.

But I'm also super blessed to be the lucky man in the middle - where they both really try their best to please me when they are together and explore the sexual boundaries we all have. I'm generally the instigator and am pleasantly/mildly surprised how readily they both enjoy the female anatomy!! I simply love it... [deleted graphic details]. Red Beauty has deft hands and a kind touch - its super erotic for me [...]

All new fun and games with three beautiful bodies coming together for pleasure, desire and acceptance.

 

[Magdlyn]

I have read all of those posts. It's a lucky situation, especially with a younger woman.

Umm, I don't think SuishyHusk feels particularly lucky, though. He's full of anxiety, FOMO, missing one-on-one sex with his wife, past guilt about neglecting his marriage, overworked because of a daughter with challenges, etc.

Saying someone is "lucky" to get with a younger woman is a bit ageist. IMO.

But I'm also super blessed to be the lucky man in the middle - where they both really try their best to please me when they are together and explore the sexual boundaries we all have. I'm generally the instigator and am pleasantly/mildly surprised how readily they both enjoy the female anatomy!! I simply love it... [deleted graphic details]. Red Beauty has deft hands and a kind touch - its super erotic for me [...]

All new fun and games with three beautiful bodies coming together for pleasure, desire and acceptance.

Glad you're having fun.

 

[moiandre]

Umm, I don't think SuishyHusk feels particularly lucky, though. He's full of anxiety, FOMO, missing one-on-one sex with his wife, past guilt about neglecting his marriage, overworked because of a daughter with challenges, etc.

Yes I understand - a lot of it is mindset. Anxiety is crippling - but I do see some joy in his posts.

Saying someone is "lucky" to get with a younger woman is a bit ageist. IMO.

maybe - more of a utopian ideal - i loved being a young father and husband; quite possibly I am getting old, grumpy and opinionated!

Glad you're having fun.

I am finally; speaking up has helped

 

[SquishyHusk]

Umm, I don't think SuishyHusk feels particularly lucky, though. He's full of anxiety, FOMO, missing one-on-one sex with his wife, past guilt about neglecting his marriage, overworked because of a daughter with challenges, etc.

Saying someone is "lucky" to get with a younger woman is a bit ageist. IMO.

Glad you're having fun.

I do get negative sometimes about the 'perfect' life that I lost, but I should feel lucky - lucky that we've found a partner that supports us, that is a great second mom. That we avoided divorce. That my wife avoided a breakdown. I hope that Pumpkin feels lucky too. To have found a family that takes her as she is. That asks nothing, but appreciates all she gives.