Trying out a triad

[SquishyHusk]

A brief recap: I've been married to Cookie for 20 years. We have a daughter that requires a great deal of attention and care. This put a huge strain on our relationship. Cookie had become depressed and exhausted. I had become angry and distant. I threw myself into work, telling myself that being a good provider and making money made me a good husband. Last year, my job started requiring a lot of travel. a week or two a month, all over the globe. My wife's friend Pumpkin started sleeping over to help Cookie out.

I knew Pumpkin liked women, but I didn't worry, because I knew my wife was straight. They spent a lot of time cuddling, but I was assured that it was just how female friends support each other.

Two months ago, while I was out with Cookie, she asked me if I'd be interested in a threesome. I was shocked, to say the least. I have spent the last two months mostly tearing myself apart, alternating with good days when I can see that the mutual support system is very beneficial. My waffling back and forth was causing the girls a lot of distress. Cookie was scared that she'd lose either her husband or her support system and best friend. She blamed herself for ruining our marriage by bringing it up. Pumpkin was feeling rejected and scared that she would lose her best friend and lose the family that she had grown to love.

A week or so ago, I made a conscious decision to choose happiness over the fears of what could be and over the pain of what had been lost, because I felt like my marriage was over, that we'd never be the same couple we were. But it was crumbling anyway. I choose to hope that this will be better.

So last night, when I came home from an especially grueling week of traveling and spending nights all alone in hotels, I got out of the shower to find both girls in bed, waiting to greet me home with lots of hugs and kisses. I didn't overthink it. I didn't resist it. Things got pretty hot. The girls kissed each other a lot while I watched. Cookie got really turned on kissing Pumpkin.

It was odd for me. It was a turn-on to see them so happy. It was strange to see my wife kiss someone else.

Cookie's reaction when Pumpkin started playing with her breasts was intense. Pumpkin made Cookie wetter than I have in a long time. Cookie played with Pumpkin's breasts a little, but I don't think touching boobs excites Cookie as much as it excites Pumpkin and me. I mostly touched Pumpkin because she was in the middle and it was a little difficult to reach Cookie. I kissed them both a bit, but mostly watched. Cookie would pause often and just look at us-- mostly at Pumpkin. After a while, Cookie started giving me a hand job while kissing Pumpkin. I put my hand in Pumpkin's pants and touched her a bit over her panties. Then I touched Cookie. She didn't have panties on. Cookie asked me if my fingers were already wet from Pumpkin before I touched her. I said yes, and she made a noise. I don't know if it was a good or bad noise.

Cookie told Pumpkin it was late and she should go to bed. So Pumpkin went to her own room and Cookie and I had sex.

We talked a bit about how we were feeling, and Cookie asked if it was okay for her and Pumpkin to do stuff without me. I said yes, but I don't know how I truly feel about it. Yes, there will be times when Pumpkin and I are together without Cookie, but they will have whole weeks together without me. While I'm all alone in a hotel, they will have each other. I'm glad they will have each other. I'm just sad for me.

And no, I don't want to meet other women while traveling.

I wish it was still just Cookie and me, but that wasn't working. I'm just glad the person Cookie found to support her is a young, beautiful, bi babe that gives all indications that she likes me too.

Pumpkin recently ordered a ring that represents Cookie and me, to wear like a wedding band to show her commitment to us, and to show that she is off the market. That makes me feel good.

So, that's the brief update on where I am today, two months after my wife shook my foundation and made me face how bad our marriage had gotten. By all metrics, all of our lives are better and happier. Sure, I have some bad feelings sometimes, but it's a big improvement over being distant and angry all the time.

It is strange to me that sharing an extra-marital partner is actually making our marriage stronger and closing the rift between us. I pray for guidance, because I swore an oath before God to love only one and forsake all others. We three, Cookie, Pumpkin, and I, all go to church together and so far we have not been struck down. Just whispers of the old church ladies. We don't hide that Pumpkin lives with us, and our families like her very much. I don't know if anyone suspects that we are intimate. If anyone does, they haven't said anything.

 

[SquishyHusk]

Cookie and Pumpkin started having sex last night. I was quite surprised how quickly Cookie got into it, considering that it was her first time with another woman. I mostly watched, to let her enjoy her first time-- and wow, did she ever enjoy it! Luckily I have been reading about poly relationships so I can realize that this is NRE and not be hurt by how excited she was. Watching from the edge was a little difficult, and I'm a little worried about what their physical relationship is going to mean for me in the future, but mostly I'm just happy to see my wife feel good and see her smile.

Pumpkin spent the night in our room. She and Cookie always share the bed when I'm away for work, but last night was the first time all three of us shared the bed. As soon as they woke up, they had sex again. Again, I was surprised by how enthusiastic Cookie was to pleasure Pumpkin. I was happy for Pumpkin. She has been a great friend and a big help to the household over the past year, and as far as I know, last night and this morning are the first orgasms she'd had in a year that she didn't give herself.

Cookie is going to get some condoms so that Pumpkin and I can have PIV sex soon. It still feels strange that my wife is fine with me having sex with her friend. Her being with a woman doesn't threaten me as a man, but doesn't letting me be with another woman make her question if she is not enough woman?

 

[ref2018]

Her being with a woman doesn't threaten me as a man - but doesn't letting me be with another woman make her question if she is not enough woman?

Every person is not a substitute or an example of every other person with the same genitals and/or chromosomes. That's something society and the media program into us and it's just nonsense. I don't remember if you are in therapy or not, but with or without help from a professional, it's never too late to start unlearning that kind of conditioning.

 

[SquishyHusk]

Every person is not a substitute or an example of every other person with the same genitals and/or chromosomes. That's something society and the media program into us and it's just nonsense. I don't remember if you are in therapy or not, but with or without help from a professional, it's never too late to start unlearning that kind of conditioning.

My therapist is not poly friendly, so I'm switching to a different one. The first appointment is next week. It's been difficult to find someone accepting new patients.

 

[Magdlyn]

Her being with a woman doesn't threaten me as a man - but doesn't letting me be with another woman make her question if she is not enough woman?

Are you saying that if Cookie had a man as a lover, rather than a woman (Pumpkin) that you'd feel like you weren't "enough man"? That is a common feeling for men to experience. That is why many men try to impose a one-penis policy (OPP). Obviously, it's sexist and based on a deep insecurity and fear of loss. You're "lucky" in that you aren't being forced to face that fear.

 

[ref2018]

My therapist is not poly friendly, so I'm switching to a different one. The first appointment is next week. It's been difficult to find someone accepting new patients.

My point was that you can read books and work on things without waiting for help from a therapist.

 

[SquishyHusk]

Are you saying that if Cookie had a man as a lover, rather than a woman (Pumpkin) that you'd feel like you weren't "enough man"? That is a common feeling for men to experience. That is why many men try to impose a one-penis policy (OPP). Obviously, it's sexist and based on a deep insecurity and fear of loss. You're "lucky" in that you aren't being forced to face that fear.

You are correct, I am lucky I don't have to face that. My insecurities are what I'm trying to work on. Who knows if it will be something I have to cope with in the future.

 

[SquishyHusk]

My point was that you can read books and work on things without waiting for help from a therapist.

I have read Opening Up and another one that I can't remember right now.

 

[SquishyHusk]

I had PIV sex with Pumpkin last night. After over 20 years of monogamy, I slept with my wife's friend while she watched. I found myself looking at Cookie at lot, both to make sure she was still okay and also because, while Pumpkin is beautiful, no one is more beautiful in my eyes than Cookie. I would have been fine with never having sex with Pumpkin, but Cookie wanted it. Pumpkin wanted it too, how much, I'm not sure. Isn't sex with Cookie enough? They have told me that nothing can take the place of a penis, and sometimes even a lesbian wants it. So maybe.

It was a big step for me. I worried a lot about how Cookie would feel. I still worry a little bit about myself. Until two months ago, I never thought about another woman. Now I've broken my marriage vows.

This was Cookie's idea. Everything was discussed beforehand. No one is "cheating." Everyone is happy. Why am I bothered? It's just all new and strange, to me, anyway. Pumpkin is the one that is experienced in the poly lifestyle.

I had been worried before that one of the reasons Cookie wanted me to have sex with Pumpkin was because Pumpkin was getting horny and thinking about going out for a random hookup. Cookie would rather have us, people that love and care about her, take care of her needs at home in a safe way. I just worried that Cookie would be upset actually seeing it happen. But when it did happen, when I finally penetrated Pumpkin, Cookie looked really happy. She had said once that she was looking forward to being able to see what it looked like from different angles. She can't really see everything when she is the one being penetrated, and for a long time I have been telling her how much I enjoy looking. There were a few times in the past that she has had me take pictures so that she could see herself from my angle.

I hope Pumpkin was satisfied. I don't think she had a bad time, but I think I could have done better. I imagine I'll get better as I learn to pick up on her cues. Or maybe a man just can't please her as much as a woman can. Maybe Cookie should have done more than watch. When I have sex with Cookie, Pumpkin helps out. Cookie has been having the best orgasms of her life, with two people stimulating her. Pumpkin always finds a way to fit in and make everything better.

I don't like that everyone is telling me this can't work, that it will end, she will leave, and other stupid, hurtful things.

I am scared that she will leave. She holds a piece of my heart now. If this ends, and she leaves, that piece of me will be gone. That is how I love, and why I have only slept with a few-- only the ones I saw a future with. But with all the ones before, the future I saw was marriage and kids. What is the future with this new woman? How long do we have? I want it to be forever. I hope it will be, but how can it? All I hear is that this is destined to fail.

I hope I'm doing the right thing. I think i am. My marriage was failing. There was a huge rift between Cookie and me. Cookie was spiraling into depression. Pumpkin was struggling with her issues. Now everyone is happier than they have been in a long time.

I worry about what the future will bring, when the NRE wears off and we settle into a normal dull routine. But maybe we'll be fine because we started with a dull routine. Pumpkin has been living here for a year doing the dull stuff, cooking, laundry, childcare, for a year. The girls were great friends first, and as long as this physical relationship doesn't ruin the friendship, maybe we'll be okay.

 

[Magdlyn]

Usually these blogs are considered hands-off, a place for one person to vent and organize their thoughts and feelings by getting them onto paper, so to speak. But you seem to feel lost, confused, unhappy, insecure, and even to be having a crisis in your Christian faith! I wondered how much feedback you'd like to have here. It's totally up to you. Feedback can help. We try to be supportive, optimistic, while realistic. No one here hates you or is disgusted by what you're doing. We want you to be happy.

So, do you want advice here, or not?

 

[SquishyHusk]

Usually these blogs are considered hands-off, a place for one person to vent and organize their thoughts and feelings by getting them onto paper, so to speak. But you seem to feel lost, confused, unhappy, insecure, and even to be having a crisis in your Christian faith! I wondered how much feedback you'd like to have here. It's totally up to you. Feedback can help. We try to be supportive, optimistic, while realistic. No one here hates you or is disgusted by what you're doing. We want you to be happy.

So, do you want advice here, or not?

I'm mostly just dumping out my thoughts. It helps to take them out of my head and put them in print. But I am totally open to advice.

And when I say that everyone is telling me that it can't work, I don't mean anyone here. This is just about the only safe space. It's everywhere else in my life that I encounter predictions of calamity. It's like most people want you to be unhappy. Conformity is more important than happiness. Even when I tell people that my wife was nearing hospitalization due to her stress and depression, they think having her institutionalized would have been a better choice than this.

 

[Magdlyn]

I had PIV sex with Pumpkin last night, after over 20 years of monogamy. I found myself looking at Cookie at lot, both to make sure she was still okay and also because, while Pumpkin is beautiful, no one is more beautiful in my eyes than Cookie. I would have been fine with never having sex with Pumpkin, but Cookie wanted it. Pumpkin wanted it too.

You know, you don't have to have sex with anyone if you don't want to. No one should coerce you into sex. You shouldn't be giving over your body against your own conscience and moral backbone (and religious beliefs) just to provide someone with a penis.

How much, I'm not sure. Isn't sex with Cookie enough?

Apparently not!

They have told me that nothing can take the place of a penis, and sometimes even a lesbian wants it.

Sometimes a lesbian might want a penis. But that is extremely rare. That's why she's a lesbian, because she doesn't give a shit about penises, male bodies, male smells, beards, and all that.

Sometimes lesbians will discover they are bi, just like sometimes women who believed they were straight find out they can be somewhat attracted, or very attracted, to another woman. Sure. But of course, we are all afraid Pumpkin has some kind of ulterior (financial?) motive for involving you in the sex.

I worried a lot about how Cookie would feel.

I worry a little bit about myself.

You're more worried about how Cookie feels than about how you feel. Putting other's needs before your own is a pretty common Christian concept. It's not really healthy. When taken to extremes, it leads to low self esteem and burn-out.

Until two months ago, I never thought about another woman. Now I've broken my marriage vows.

I see how heartrending this is to you. You seem to be THINKING "I am lucky! I have TWO hot women who want me! Every man's dream!" But what you're actually FEELING is scared, upset, worried, etc.

This was Cookie's idea. Everything was discussed beforehand. No one is "cheating". Everyone is happy.

Well, Cookie is happy. Pumpkin? You don't know her well enough to say. She's still a mystery. And you're not happy.

Why am I bothered? It just all is new and strange, to me...

I had been worried before that one of the reasons Cookie wanted me to have sex with Pumpkin was because Pumpkin was getting horny and thinking about going out for a random hookup. Cookie would rather have us, people that love and care about her, take care of her needs at home, in a safe way.

Did the women tell you that the so-called lesbian wanted to go out and have a casual hookup with a man, or maybe with a more experienced or actual lesbian? And Cookie wanted to keep Pumpkin at home, so she thought she'd talk you into agreeing to be the stunt cock?

I just worried that Cookie would be upset actually seeing it happen. But when I finally penetrated Pumpkin, Cookie looked really happy. She had said once that she was looking forward to being able to see what it looked like from different angles. She can't really see everything when she is the one being penetrated, and for a long time I have been telling her how much I enjoy looking. There were a few times in that past that she has had me take pictures so that she could see herself from my angle.

Yes, it does sound like Cookie enjoyed herself. One out of three had fun. Hmph.

I hope Pumpkin was satisfied. I don't think she had a bad time, but I think I could have done better. I imagine I'll get better as I learn to pick up on her cues. Or maybe a man just can't please her as much as a woman can.

Yeah. Who knows?

Maybe Cookie should have done more than watch. When I have sex with Cookie, Pumpkin helps out. Cookie has been having the best orgasms of her life, with two people stimulating her.

Cookie did what she wanted to do. There are no "shoulds." She's not gonna do something outside of HER comfort zone just to please Pumpkin. (But you will.)

I don't like that everyone is telling me: "This can't work, it will end, she will leave," and other stupid, hurtful things.

I am scared that she will leave.

So, one of the things "everyone" is saying, you are also saying to yourself. Someone (Cookie or Pumpkin) might leave.

She holds a piece of my heart now. If this ends, and she leaves, that piece of me will be gone.

You're afraid Cookie will leave YOU for Pumpkin? But Cookie needs your money and wants your penis, right? And you're still the father of her child.

Or are you saying Pumpkin has a piece of your heart, but might leave you AND Cookie AND the person with special needs who relies on her and loves her, whom Pumpkin professes to love?

That is how I love, and why I have only slept with a few, only the ones I saw a future with (i.e.), marriage and kids. What is the future with this new woman? How long do we have? I want it to be forever, I hope it will be, but how can it? All I hear is that this is destined to fail.

It won't "fail." It's an experiment. You'll learn from it, no matter what. Maybe it will come to seem fine, in time. Maybe you'll fall in love with Pumpkin and vice versa. Or not. Time will tell. You're not hearing from us, here, at polyamory.com, that this is destined to fail. It seems uncomfortable now, at least for you. Maybe you'll just stop having sex with Pumpkin, and if she wants dick, she can go get it elsewhere. That's her choice. (After all, Cookie could put on a strap-on, if she is so worried about Pumpkin going elsewhere just for dick.) No one is forcing you to be Pumpkin's stud, but you're feeling pressured, coerced, ganged-up-on, and that doesn't sound fun.

I hope I'm doing the right thing. I think i am. My marriage was failing. There was a huge rift between Cookie and me. Cookie was spiraling into depression.

Cookie needed help with childcare. And she's enjoying the friendship and romance with Pumpkin. I agree that more care for your daughter was desperately needed. And Cookie needed a friend. Pumpkin needed a "family" and a place to stay.

What do YOU need and want? Where are your boundaries?

Pumpkin was struggling with her issues. Now everyone is happier than they have been in a long time. I worry about what the future will bring, when the NRE wears off and we settle into the normal dull routine. But maybe we'll be fine because we started with a dull routine. Pumpkin has been living here for a year doing the dull stuff, cooking, laundry, childcare, for a year. The girls were great friends first, and as long as this physical relationship doesn't ruin the friendship, maybe we'll be okay.

Maybe! Prepare for the worst, but expect the best. I am sorry the only way you see to get care for your daughter is with this whole sex/romance/stunt cock arrangement. This is definitely an unusual open marriage case.

 

[SquishyHusk]

You know, you don't have to have sex with anyone if you don't want to. No one should coerce you into sex. You shouldn't be giving over your body against your own conscience and moral backbone (and religious beliefs) just to provide someone with a penis.

I have reservations stemming from morals and religion, but I cannot deny that Pumpkin is very beautiful and just being near her is exciting. There is an intense physical attraction. I owe her a great debt for stepping in to help Cookie when no one else did. She has proven that she loves my family. She works every day to be a part of the family. I love her for that.

Sometimes lesbians will discover they are bi, just like sometimes women who believed they were straight find out they can be somewhat attracted, or very attracted, to another woman.

Yeah, I didn't think Cookie was attracted to women until she found herself falling for a friend.

But of course, we are all afraid Pumpkin has some kind of ulterior (financial?) motive for involving you in the sex.

Take my money and run? Doubt it. Boot me out of the house to live with Cookie? I have no doubt Pumpkin could have convinced Cookie to divorce me when I was angry and distant. Instead, she supported the family until I got better. She stays home while Cookie and I go out and reconnect. I think if she wanted me gone, it would be easy to undermine the marriage. Instead, she supports it. She has never asked for anything, like being reimbursed for groceries or gas when she has driven the kid to appointments. Might get pregnant to trap me with support? She is very careful to avoid that. If she wanted to get pregnant, it would have been simple to lie about birth control.

You're more worried about how Cookie feels than about how you feel. Putting other's needs before your own is a pretty common Christian concept. Not really healthy-- when taken to extremes, it leads to low self esteem and burn-out.

Neglecting Cookie's needs brought us to this point. I almost lost her. Her needs are the most important thing to me now.

I see how heartrending this is to you. You seem to be THINKING "I am lucky! I have TWO hot women who want me! Every man's dream!" But what you're actually FEELING is scared, upset, worried, etc.

Well, Cookie is happy. Pumpkin? You don't know her well enough to say. She's still a mystery. And you're not happy.

I have reservations, but I am happy most of the time. It is a big improvement over being angry and distant all the time.

Did the women tell you that? That the so-called lesbian wanted to go out and have a casual hookup with a man? Or maybe with a more experienced or actual lesbian? And Cookie wanted to keep Pumpkin at home, so thought she'd talk you into agreeing to be the stunt cock?

I know that Pumpkin would think about going out clubbing, and that if she did, it would almost certainly result in a random hookup. With a man or a woman? That I don't know. Either? Both? Cookie would just tell her not to do something that she would regret, and Pumpkin would end up staying home.

Yes, it does sound like Cookie enjoyed herself. One out of three had fun. Hmph.

We all had fun. Even if Pumpkin didn't have the best sex with me, I think she enjoyed it. It just didn't give her the big orgasms that she gets from being with Cookie. And even though I have worries about the future, I had an experience that pushed me to levels of pleasure I have not experienced since the first time with my wife.

So, one of the things "everyone" is saying, you are also saying to yourself. Someone (Cookie or Pumpkin) might leave. You're afraid Cookie will leave YOU for Pumpkin? But Cookie needs your money and wants your penis, right? And you're still the father of her child. Or are you saying Pumpkin has a piece of your heart, but might leave you AND Cookie AND the person with special needs who relies on her and loves her, whom Pumpkin professes to love?

It's just hard to hear from so many that poly relationships don't last.

I don't think that Cookie will leave me, but I worry that her attentions will shift more and more to Pumpkin and I'll be left feeling alone.

I am worried that Pumpkin will decide that settling down with an established couple is not what she wants anymore, that she'll want a family of her own and will leave. And when she leaves, she will take not only that piece of my heart, but Cookie's heart too. And I am afraid of going back to not getting the support we need. Pumpkin would have never moved in if the system had worked and gotten us the help we need, or if our families had helped us out. If Pumpkin leaves, Cookie and I would be back to full-time caregivers, with no time for each other, but then with the additional sadness of a lost love.

It won't "fail." It's an experiment. You'll learn from it, no matter what. Maybe it will come to seem fine, in time. Maybe you'll fall in love with Pumpkin and vice versa. Or not. Time will tell.

Pumpkin tells me that she loves me. Maybe I should just believe her. I think I might have a hard time believing that I am deserving of love after being such a poor husband.

Cookie needed help with childcare. And she's enjoying the friendship and romance with Pumpkin. I agree that more care for your daughter was desperately needed. And Cookie needed a friend. Pumpkin needed a "family" and a place to stay.
What do YOU need and want? Where are your boundaries?

What do I need and want? A stable, peaceful household. A strong marriage (even if it has to change form). I need my wife to be heathy. I want to see her happy, and if the price of seeing her smile is to give my blessing for her to be intimate with her friend, it's a small price. I think most here on this site would admit to some bad feelings now and then when their partner is with someone else.

I struggle with loneliness when I'm traveling know that they are together. I don't know if that will ever go away.

My boundaries? Nothing casual. It has to mean something. No swinging. I hope that this never goes beyond Pumpkin.

 

[Magdlyn]

I have reservations stemming from morals and religion, but I cannot deny that Pumpkin is very beautiful and just being near her is exciting. There is an intense physical attraction. I owe her a great debt for stepping in to help Cookie when no one else did. She has proven that she loves my family. She works every day to be a part of the family. I love her for that.

Thanks for sharing more information. You seem so sad, guilty and confused, but I am glad you are enjoying a degree of happiness and relief, even as you struggle.

Yeah, I don't think Cookie was attracted to women, until she found herself falling for a friend.

Take my money and run? Doubt it. Boot me out of the house to live with Cookie? I have not doubt Pumpkin could have convinced Cookie to divorce me when I was angry and distant. Instead she supported the family until I got better. She stays home while Cookie and I go out and reconnect. I think if she wanted me gone, it would be easy to undermine the marriage - instead she supports it. She has never asked for anything like being reimbursed for groceries or gas when she has driven the kid to appointments. Might get pregnant to trap me with support? She is very careful to avoid that. If she wanted to get pregnant, it would have been simple to lie about birth control.

No, I wasn't thinking about any of these scenarios specifically, but it's good to lay them out like that. I just meant, in general, Pumpkin wasn't doing too well, financially, she was living with her disapproving mother, and wanted/needed good friends, more financial stability, and a secure living situation. I'm a bit cynical, so I was concerned she was just using you guys. Luckily you make enough money to comfortably support four adults...

Neglecting Cookie's needs brought us to this point. I almost lost her. Her needs are the most important thing to me now.

Obviously you can't fully support her unless you're taking care of your own needs, though. You may be happier in some ways, but I can see you're still feeling tremendous guilt. Working through this is important self-care.

I have reservations, but I am happy most of the time. It is a big improvement over being angry and distant all of the time.

I know that Pumpkin would think about going out clubbing, and that if she did, it would almost certainly result in a random hookup. With a man or a woman? That I don't know. Either? Both? Cookie would just tell her not to do something that she would regret, and Pumpkin would end up staying home.

It seems like Cookie gets to tell Pumpkin what to do? "Don't go out clubbing." "It's late-- go to bed (alone)."

We all had fun. Even if Pumpkin didn't have the best sex with me, I think she enjoyed it - it just didn't give her the big orgasms that she gets from being with Cookie. And even though I have worries about the future, I had an experience that pushed me levels of pleasure I have not experienced since the first time with my wife.

It's just hard to hear from so many that poly relationships don't last.
And I don't think that Cookie will leave me, but I worry that her attentions will shift more and more to Pumpkin and I'll be left feeling alone.

You are not good with being alone, either "all alone in a hotel room" for work, or fearing for future loneliness in your marriage. You can work on keeping your bond with Cookie strong while she continues to build a fully sexual r'ship with Pumpkin.

I am worried that Pumpkin will decide that settling down with an established couple is not what she wants anymore. That she'll want a family of her own and will leave. And when she leaves, she will take not only that piece of my heart, but Cookie's heart too. And I am afraid of going back to not getting the support we need. Pumpkin would have never moved in if the system had worked and gotten us the help we need. Or if our families had helped us out. If Pumpkin leaves, Cookie and I would be back to full-time caregivers - with no time for each other. But then with the additional sadness of a lost love.

Yeah, that is dreadful to contemplate and I think Pumpkin is doing everything she can to reassure you both that she is committed, as unlikely as this might seem. Me, I try not to worry too much about the future. I take care of the present, instead, and then the future takes care of itself (except for finances, retirement plans and the like).

Pumpkin tells me that she loves me. Maybe I should just believe her. I think that I might have a hard believing that I am deserving of love after being such a poor husband.

Another personal problem you need to address. But hopefully it will come in time, with therapy.

What do I need and want? A stable, peaceful household. A strong marriage (even if it has to change form). I need my wife to be heathy.

Health is never guaranteed. And we all just get sicker as we age and our bodies start to wear out.

I want to see her happy, and if the price of seeing her smile is to give my blessing for her to be intimate with her friend? It's a small price. I think most here on this site would admit to some bad feelings now and then when their partner is with someone else.

Yes, but it does get much easier with practice.

I struggle with loneliness when I'm traveling know that they are together. I don't know if that will ever go away.

Maybe you could find another job with less travel requirements.

My boundaries? Nothing casual. It has to mean something. No swinging. I hope that this never goes beyond Pumpkin.

No, those are rules for others. Boundaries are something you set for yourself.

Boundary: I refuse to swing or have casual sex myself. If either of you swings or has casual sex, or takes another serious lover, I will [... take this action...].

What would you do if Pumpkin decided to go out to a club, and got drunk/high and ended up having casual sex? Maybe you'd set an agreement beforehand for her to use condoms. Maybe you'd request her to call/text if she wasn't going to be coming home that night. Maybe you'd worry for her safety. But she's an adult, and she's not your daughter. So no, you can't tell her not to go out, and not to have a hookup if she desires that.

Lots of happily polyamorous people also enjoy some casual sex or even swinging. Sometimes one partner enjoys that, and their primary does not enjoy that. So the less adventurous partner has to decide if they can be comfortable with the other person's desire and right to choose to engage in those actions. This requires a degree of respect and independence. You could look into "relationship anarchy" for more on how to detangle and let your partners be themselves.

 

[SquishyHusk]

... in general, Pumpkin wasn't doing too well, financially, she was living with her disapproving mother, and wanted/needed good friends, more financial stability, and a secure living situation. I'm a bit cynical, so I was concerned she was just using you guys. Luckily you make enough money to comfortably support four adults...

One of the benefits of having thrown myself into my career. Adding one more person to the house doesn't change the bills noticeably. The major expenses are medical - out of network doctors, specialists, and prescriptions. Feeding one more mouth is nothing.

Obviously you can't fully support her unless you're taking care of your own needs, though. You may be happier in some ways, but I can see you're still feeling tremendous guilt. Working through this is important self-care.

My previous therapist was not poly-friendly. I'm meeting a new one today.

It seems like Cookie gets to tell Pumpkin what to do? "Don't go out clubbing." "It's late-- go to bed (alone)."

You bring up good point. Now that I think about it, Cookie is being controlling. But telling Pumpkin not to go out predates our romantic relationship. Cookie just wanted Pumpkin to avoid doing something that she would regret in the morning. It comes from a place of love, but is a bit motherly.

You are not good with being alone, either "all alone in a hotel room" for work, or fearing for future loneliness in your marriage. You can work on keeping your bond with Cookie strong while she continues to build a fully sexual r'ship with Pumpkin.

Yeah, it's something I have to learn to cope with. Sharing time and attention. I wasted so much time being distant and angry - not giving Cookie time and attention - now that I want to reconnect, I have to share.

Maybe you could find another job with less travel requirements.

The job market isn't great right now, but I'm always looking. I need to maintain my income level to keep up with the bills.

What would you do if Pumpkin decided to go out to a club, and got drunk/high and ended up having casual sex? Maybe you'd set an agreement beforehand for her to use condoms. Maybe you'd request her to call/text if she wasn't going to be coming home that night. Maybe you'd worry for her safety. But she's an adult, and she's not your daughter. So no, you can't tell her not to go out, and not to have a hookup if she desires that.

That is frightening to me. I had a hard enough time becoming non-monogamous, but convinced myself I could be okay with adding one committed partner, because she was already a part of the family. I can't do casual. I guess if Pumpkin wants to go out, I'd have to end my sexual relationship with her. If Cookie wants to maintain a sexual relationship with Pumpkin, I would have a hard time with that. It might mean divorce.
Can I at least set the rule that nobody can be brought back to the house?

But maybe Pumpkin will be okay with settling down. If I am correct, in her last relationship it was her girlfriend who wanted to continue to see other girls, while Pumpkin was fine with just one girlfriend. And maybe she'd be fine going to clubs as a couple, either with me or Cookie? I'll have to ask her if she just likes going to a club for drinks and music or if the point is to hook up.

Lots of happily polyamorous people also enjoy some casual sex or even swinging. Sometimes one partner enjoys that, and their primary does not enjoy that. So the less adventurous partner has to decide if they can be comfortable with the other person's desire and right to choose to engage in those actions. This requires a degree of respect and independence. You could look into "relationship anarchy" for more on how to detangle and let your partners be themselves.

If Cookie wants to take this beyond just Pumpkin, I think I'd have to leave. aAdding a close friend was hard enough. I don't think I can shift much further. I hope it never comes to that.

 

[SquishyHusk]

I saw the new therapist today. His take on everything was, "If no one is getting hurt, it's fine."

Cookie and Pumpkin started their "monthlies" today. Lucky me that they synced up their menstrual cycles. So I'm being a good husband and getting them ice cream and cookies. Pumpkin is having bad cramps, so Cookie has gone to sleep with her for moral support.

 

[Evie]

Mathematician here. Please don't assume that the synced periods will continue - there is definitely the likelihood of mathematical coincidence. Don't base the health of the women, or their relationship, or your relationship with them upon it. Think about how your window wipers sometimes seem to be on the beat of the song you are listening to in the car, but then they aren't anymore.

And from an article:
"As humans, it’s natural to connect our physical experiences with our emotional ones, and having a period that “syncs” with a family member or close friend adds another layer to our relationships. However, it’s important to note that having a period that’s “out of sync” with the women you live with doesn’t mean anything is irregular or wrong with your cycle or your relationships." https://www.healthline.com/health/womens-health/period-syncing

 

[SquishyHusk]

I guess the girls had a good night in Pumpkin's room because Cookie woke me up early, already charged up and ready to go.

Later, over breakfast, Cookie told me that when they talked last night Pumpkin said I looked happier lately than she had ever seen me and asked if I'd ever been happy before. Cookie told her that I had been this happy when the kids were little and it was good to have me back.

I can see that Cookie is also happier than she has been in many years, and I think that goes for Pumpkin too. I wasn't close to Pumpkin until recently. The only times I'd hear about her was when she was having relationship problems.

I hope that we can do something all together soon. Cookie and I go out, Cookie and Pumpkin go out, Pumpkin and I went out once, but we've never been able to all go out together.

 

[SquishyHusk]

I'm still shocked when I think about how excited Cookie is by Pumpkin. She had never admitted any inclinations in the over twenty years I've known her. I had even asked her once years ago if she had "experimented," and she said she never had. I asked Pumpkin last night when she realized she liked girls. She said she was 12. I said I was 13. I asked Cookie-- no answer. Pumpkin said it must have been that night this summer when Cookie kissed her for the first time. And now, Cookie is so turned on by Pumpkin that she woke Pumpkin up this morning to fool around, and only came to me to finish.

 

[SquishyHusk]

The night before last, the two girls stayed in Pumpkin's room. I slept alone and felt lonely. Last night, we three shared the bed, but Pumpkin and Cookie spent the night embracing face-to-face while I was spooned up to Pumpkin's back. This also felt lonely, pressed up to a back, and not even my wife's back, while they were sharing an embrace.

As we moved the relationship with Pumpkin forward, Cookie and I had been reconnecting and I felt we were closer than we had been in many years. But now that Cookie has started exploring sex with Pumpkin, it feels like Cookie doesn't have time for me. I think (hope) Cookie is just really enjoying the NRE, and her first time with a woman, and things will start to balance out soon.