Trying out a triad

I guess you could tell Cookie you felt lonely the last two nights. One night you were alone while they had their periods. Well okay. Maybe it was nice to have some girl bonding during heavy bleeding time.

The following night you still felt lonely because you were pressed against Pumpkin's back all night. Maybe you could ask Cookie if she'd be okay with always falling asleep in the middle, when sharing a bed with both of you, because you feel better actually sleeping next to her. That way you could embrace her. Maybe she'd even roll over for part of the night and embrace you. That's just good hinge behavior.

It's early days and we all need training wheels sometimes. It's all still wobbly. The old normal is gone and the new normal isn't here yet.

You could set a fairly firm bed-sharing routine. Bluebird on here lives with her two men (and has a bf who doesn't live with them). At least with the two guys at home, there is a set rotation of with whom Bluebird sleeps. The men never share a threesome bed with her, so if she's with a guy, he's got her to himself. But they have had to get used to nights alone, as well.
 
We are currently having dinner with Cookie's family, parents, brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews.

Pumpkin loves being part of a big family. She was an only child. I wonder what the family thinks of Pumpkin? No one is asking questions, just accepting she is part of the family now. Do they suspect she is more than a friend? They know she lives with us.

I wonder if we'll ever be able to come out. I don't like secrets. If anyone asks, I won't lie.
 
I'm away on a business trip and feeling quite lonely thinking about how Cookie and Pumpkin are making love while I'm alone in a hotel room. I know it's part of this lifestyle and I'm reminding myself that they deserve to be happy.
 
After I got home from my trip, we had one night together before the women left to spend three days at a B&B. This was planned, and knowing that I was going to feel lonely and left out, I had told them that I wanted to feel appreciated that night. I'm sleeping alone for two weeks (minus one) while they share a bed.

But the girls spent the evening talking about their plans and doing their hair and nails. I didn't feel like they had missed me at all. I went to bed early because I was tired from my trip and didn't have the energy to deal with my feelings appropriately at that time. When my wife came to bed she was wearing some really nice lingerie and tried to initiate sex, but I had a hard time getting out of my funk, especially when I noticed how wet she already was, because I assumed that meant her friend had gotten her started.

Maybe I should see the foreplay between the girls as a gift to me, so that I don't have to spend time getting my wife ready, but at the time it just felt like one more thing I missed out on. I did try to get into the moment, but my wife could tell I was distracted and she got upset.
 
Your theme of loneliness continues.

Who is taking care of your daughter while the women go on vacation?
 
Magdlyn said:
Your theme of loneliness continues.

Who is taking care of your daughter while the women go on vacation?
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Just me. I can manage on my own if there are activities, like going to a park or zoo.
 
Last night the ladies surprised me by coming to bed in matching lingerie. It was a feast for the eyes.
The sex was great - I think it is getting better every time as we learn more about how to work as three - but more importantly, I finally got the close physical touching that I crave. Just having the women in my arms, pressed close, fills me with a calm that melts away the stress.
 
SquishyHusk said:
Last night the ladies surprised me by coming to bed in matching lingerie. It was a feast for the eyes.
The sex was great - I think it is getting better every time as we learn more about how to work as three - but more importantly, I finally got the close physical touching that I crave. Just having the women in my arms, pressed close, fills me with a calm that melts away the stress.
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Oh, you three had another night together before they left on their trip? So this time you didn't feel lonely, like Pumpkin got Cookie's motor running before Cookie came to you?

So you agreed to this, the women's first trip together, taking time off work to take care of your daughter by yourself while they go have fun? Would it help with the loneliness for you to plan a trip with just Cookie sometime soon? And while away, have firm boundaries about quality time, so she's not just texting Pumpkin during YOUR time constantly?
 
Magdlyn said:
Oh you three had another night together before they left on their trip? So this time you didn't feel lonely, like Pumpkin got Cookie's motor running before Cookie came to you?

So you agreed to this, the women's first trip together, taking time off work to take care of your daughter by yourself while they go have fun? Would it help with the loneliness for you to plan a trip with just Cookie sometime soon? And while away, have firm boundaries about quality time, so she's not just texting Pumpkin during YOUR time constantly?
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The girls got home from their trip last night. I had gotten home from my trip Thursday night. This was not their first trip together. I think it only bothered me this time because I had been away and was missing the contact.

A trip with just Cookie would be nice, so would a trip with Pumpkin. I just need someone to hold.
 
I think part of the issue might be that Cookie is still really feeling the NRE. This is her first girlfriend and she is experiencing a lot of 'first times' with her. The NRE may be causing her to focus more on Pumpkin.

They are both looking much happier than they have been in a very long time. I'm happier too. Even if I feel down from time to time, there are a lot of good moments. Before all of this I hadn't been happy for years.

Sometimes I wonder if Cookie and I could have fixed our marriage without bringing Pumpkin in. It was the offer of the threesome that broke me out of my depression, not because I wanted to sleep with Pumpkin, but because the offer made me wake up and realize how bad my marriage had become. I wanted to fix it, but I felt like it was too late. I'd left a gap in the marriage and Pumpkin had filled it. Even though they hadn't been physical, the emotional affair was evident. I knew it was only a matter of time before they moved forward. I'm just glad they wanted me to be a part of it. Cookie could have left me at any time. Pumpkin could have undermined the marriage if she wanted to. Instead Pumpkin wanted to join us, not replace me.

They both assured me that if I didn't want them to be together, they wouldn't be. But I don't believe them. They would try, I'm sure, but there would have come a weak moment. I'd rather have it in the open. And when I see how happy Cookie is, I'm glad she has gotten in touch with this part of her.

It's just that sometimes I regret the loss of the marriage that was, my wife that was. It's a hard thing to accept that your wife of twenty years swings both ways now. It's not something I can really talk about with family and friends.

I wonder sometimes about my eternal soul. I had always known what was 'right' before. Now, I've lost that foundation. We still go to church, as a throuple now, and we haven't been struck down yet. It makes the old church ladies whisper.
 
Hey @SquishyHusk, may I reflect something back at you? One thing that comes across in your posts is you seem to talk about yourself as though you lack agency in your relationships. That is, Cookie and Pumpkin get to make choices, but you just have things happen to you.

You talked about being unhappy for years before this situation came about (I'm sorry to hear that! Depression sucks.) — if that idea of feeling powerless inside your world resonates, maybe that's something to explore (through introspection, or with friends, or a professional, etc.)

Hope that observation is helpful. If not, feel free to disregard it. 🙂
 
Albert Ross said:
Hey @SquishyHusk, may I reflect something back at you? One thing that comes across in your posts is you seem to talk about yourself as though you lack agency in your relationships. That is, Cookie and Pumpkin get to make choices, but you just have things happen to you.

You talked about being unhappy for years before this situation came about (I'm sorry to hear that! Depression sucks.) — if that idea of feeling powerless inside your world resonates, maybe that's something to explore (through introspection, or with friends, or a professional, etc.)

Hope that observation is helpful. If not, feel free to disregard it. 🙂
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I'm seeing a therapist to work out my insecurities.

I do let the girls make a lot of decisions. Some of that is because I feel guilt over letting my marriage degrade to the point that Pumpkin had to move in to support Cookie. I should have been there to support her, but I had shut myself off.

I feel like I owe my wife for not being there, and owe her friend for putting in the hard work of being the day-to-day partner that I stopped being.
I love Pumpkin for what she did to help hold the family together, but at the same time resent that I now have to share my wife's love.

It hurts that my wife was having an emotional affair, but that bitter pill is made sweeter because the affair partner is a young, attractive woman that seems to enjoy being with me also. If the affair partner had been a man, I don't think I could have managed, and it would have meant divorce. But because it's a woman, now I have to reconcile with the fact that my wife is not straight. She had never expressed any attraction to women before. I don't think she knew until she met Pumpkin.

I think Pumpkin was always attracted to Cookie, but never thought it could go beyond friendship. Cookie was married to a man, and that was that. I can forgive the emotional affair, because I don't think either one meant to fall in love, it was two good friends keeping each other company. And Pumpkin wasn't just someone that came around for a little fun, she was here every day doing the un-fun things like cooking, cleaning, laundry, and childcare. The way I see it, she put in the work to be a part of the family. She never (as far I know) tried to undermine the marriage. She just gave support with the housework, and wanted to live somewhere where she felt safe and loved.

I'm happy that Pumpkin appears to enjoy being with me. I thought she was only interested in women, but it turns out that she enjoys being with me also.

Cookie told me that Pumpkin confessed she is surprised sometimes by how good it feels to be with me. I liked hearing that, but I wish Pumpkin had told me herself.

These kind of conversations still baffle me. How can you tell someone to their face that their husband just gave you one of the best orgasms of your life? Why does my wife get so turned on watching her husband make love to her friend? Why is it so exciting to me to watch my wife kiss her friend?

Until just a little while ago, I was 100% monogamous. I never glanced at another woman, because they could not be better looking than my wife. I would have been devastated to find out she was kissing someone else. Now, suddenly I'm sleeping with another woman and watching my wife have sex with her.

Even after agreeing to opening up the bed to include Pumpkin, I had meant to move slowly. It didn't work out that way. Part of that was because we'd all assumed that Cookie would be moving slowly, since this was her first time with a woman. It turned out that as soon as she started, she realized that she felt very comfortable and had found something that she didn't know she was missing. Things went pretty fast after that.

I still have a lot of feelings to work through, but I remind myself that before, there were three people that were all struggling and mostly unhappy. Now that we're together, the house is filled with happiness and love.

I think I'm the only one that is still holding onto reservations. I hope my therapist can help my let go of those.
 
Maybe I can help with one thing you're wondering about. Why do you get turned on watching two women have sex? Why do they get turned on watching you give pleasure to the other? That's how humans are wired. Monogamy is a social and economic construct, backed by religious books such as the old and new testaments of the Bible.

However, as I said on another thread, polygyny (one man/several women) was an acceptable form of male/female r'ship in the Bible. Most of the patriarchs had multiple wives and many had female sex slaves (concubines or handmaids who were made to have sex with them). These stories are all over your Bible. You are struggling with your religious beliefs. That is a big hangup for you.

In ancient times, even though it isn't graphically depicted in the Bible, surely on occasion, the males watched the members of their harems have sex with each other. Lesbian sex is not prohibited in the Bible. There is also clear evidence that men made male slaves into eunuchs (removed their testicles), rendering them sterile, so that they could guard the harems from fertile males, and even give the women sex without fear of pregnancy. After all, if you've got a harem of a dozen or so women, you are not going to be able to keep them all sexually satisfied.

But if we go back even further than 2000 BCE, we have a million years of non-patriarchal culture, where women were revered as goddesses of fertility. These more ancient religions were still being practiced in Canaan and Babylon and the rest of the world during the time the Bible was written. Yahweh's supporters decried the "abominable" orgies and other fertility rites, but they served several purposes. People crave sex with more than just their spouse? Have orgies be part of your religious practices once or twice a year. A man claims a woman, but she can't conceive? Let her be a temple sex worker for a while and maybe a fertile customer/devotee will provide viable sperm.

Your desire to have sex with more women than your wife was there all along. You just repressed it as a good Christian mono husband. Now that your wife is enjoying lesbian sex, you have permitted your repressed promiscuity to come out.
 
Another of my insecurities is: What are the odds that Pumpkin would also love me? I know that Pumpkin loves Cookie. I can understand this. Cookie is a kind, intelligent, beautiful, wonderful woman. That's why I fell for her.

Maybe I have trouble feeling like I deserve love, but I have trouble accepting that I've gotten so lucky, that Cookie loves me as well as Pumpkin. My insecurities tell me that Pumpkin only tolerates me because she loves Cookie. Cookie has pointed to me that if Pumpkin didn't want to be with me, then she wouldn't be. That makes sense, but I still have that voice in my head that tells me Pumpkin only cares about me because I come as part of the package deal.
 
SquishyHusk said:
Maybe I have trouble feeling like I deserve love
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Could be. That's something to try to unpack, regardless of what relationships you're in.

There is a lot of "all or nothing" thinking here. It seems like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself (and, really, on everyone) — either your wife's girlfriend feels as strongly for you as she does for your wife, or... what is the outcome you fear? They'll both leave you?

One hears a lot on poly forums about how difficult a triad (relationship between three people) is, and a couple of reasons why:
  1. It's very, very unlikely that any one person in the triad will have exactly the same feelings for both of the other people, because... those people are different people.
  2. A triad is actually three different dyadic relationships (relationships between two people) in addition to the relationship between all three.
Looking at your situation in those terms: it's extremely likely that Pumpkin won't have the same feelings for you as she does for Cookie. And Cookie's feelings for you and for Pumpkin will probably be different, too.

And here's a person whose agency seems to get left out of your worries a lot 😉 : YOU probably won't have the same feelings for Pumpkin as you do for Cookie.

The thing is... there's nothing inherently wrong with that. The fact Pumpkin lives with you complicates things, yes, but there's no fundamental reason she can't have a loving relationship with Cookie and merely a friendly relationship with you. Lots of (most?) polyamorous relationships work that way.

Back to point (2) above: leaving the relating between all three of you aside for a moment, there are three relationships at play here:
  • You and Cookie
  • You and Pumpkin
  • Cookie and Pumpkin
Notice how you're present in two of those relationships—that actually gives you a lot more agency than you may think! It might be worthwhile to focus less on the Cookie/Pumpkin relationship, which you aren't directly a part of, and less on the triad, and more on your relationships with each of the others as individuals. Talk about what you want and need from those relationships. And each of them can do the same.

Maybe the whole situation will feel better if you focus less on the triad and more on making each of those dyads as healthy as possible.
 
Magdlyn said:
Sometimes a lesbian might want a penis. But that is extremely rare. That's why she's a lesbian, because she doesn't give a shit about penises, male bodies, male smells, beards, and all that.
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There’s a spectrum of sexuality, I think. I’ve met quite a few people who identify as being straight, but have a person or two they’d make exceptions for, which we jokingly call “straight with an option to bi”. There’s "gay with an option to bi," as well. One of my partners had identified as lesbian, but she was in a long-term V with a woman hinge and they all had a positive loving household. There were a couple times she did have sex with the man involved, but those were the only exceptions she made in decades, so she still thinks of herself as lesbian rather than bi. It happens, but it wasn’t because of wanting a penis. It was because of the one specific person she had a loving long term-relationship with, who regrettably had a penis. ;)
 
Midnight_Shaman said:
There’s a spectrum of sexuality, I think. I’ve met quite a few people who identify as being straight, but have a person or two they’d make exceptions for, which we jokingly call “straight with an option to bi”. There’s "gay with an option to bi," as well. One of my partners had identified as lesbian, but she was in a long-term V with a woman hinge and they all had a positive loving household. There were a couple times she did have sex with the man involved, but those were the only exceptions she made in decades, so she still thinks of herself as lesbian rather than bi. It happens, but it wasn’t because of wanting a penis. It was because of the one specific person she had a loving long term-relationship with, who regrettably had a penis. ;)
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I totally concur that sexuality is a spectrum. There are people who ID as gay who have had hetero sex. I was speaking in generalities. If you're having regular sex with someone of the opposite gender, I wouldn't call you gay. Lesbians have a term for never having had a penis inside them: "Gold star lesbian." I'd imagine there are fewer gold stars than non-gold stars.

I've been looking into the case of Anthony Perkins, the actor from the movie Psycho. He was not out as gay (to the public) during his lifetime. He died in the 1980s from AIDs, and then it was revealed he was gay. However, he'd always strongly wanted to be a dad, so he got married and had sex with his wife often enough to conceive two children. She knew she was his beard, though. And it was revealed she was fine with him having male lovers throughout their marriage. I highly doubt Tony had sex with his wife regularly. He did it just to father some kids. So, in his case, I'm pretty sure he IDed as gay to those he was close with, despite the marriage and kids.

In Pumpkin's case, she might be moving (at least for a while) on the spectrum from gay to bi... maybe because of NRE, in some way. She might move back to only wanting FF sex at some point. Who knows? It's much too soon to tell...
 
Maybe someone can shed a little light on something that is always in the back of my mind. My wife had never expressed any interest or attraction to the opposite sex. I imagine it was the emotional closeness that she developed with her friend that made her start to think, "What if?" and begin to entertain the idea of a sexual relationship. I asked her about it, and she said it's not so much that she is interested in women, it's that she's interested in Pumpkin. Cookie says she is surprised by how comfortable she is with lesbian sex and how much she enjoys it. It was certainly a shock to me.

I'm not sure what my question is, other than has anyone else realized a change in their feelings/preferences later in life? Has anyone else found themselves falling in love with someone they didn't expect to? What was that like?
 
Magdlyn said:
In Pumpkin's case, she might be moving (at least for a while) on the spectrum from gay to bi... maybe because of NRE, in some way. She might move back to only wanting FF sex at some point. Who knows? It's much too soon to tell...
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We have had one-on-one sex a few times, but her strongest orgasms always happen when Cookie is there - holding her, kissing her, looking into her eyes. Cookie has asked Pumpkin about the faces she makes at these times - Pumpkin confessed to Cookie that she is not accustomed to feeling so good with a man. But is it me or is it because she is looking at Cookie?
 
I'm not sure what my question is other than has anyone else realized a change in their feelings/preferences later in life?
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This is a pretty well documented phenomenon. Google will give you a heap of articles if you type in "late life lesbian" or "late blooming lesbian".

Has anyone else found themselves falling in love with someone they didn't expect to? What was that like?
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Yes, when I met my now husband I had no intention of falling in love. It was confronting as I wasn't long out of a a live in relationship and was wanting to slut around. But NRE clamped on pretty damn hard and we defaulted to monogamy within 6 months. We opened up about 4 years later, and that had some struggles, but now being open is just normal.
 
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