Not specific to poly

[AlZig]

I have been thinking about a behavior that one of my partners who is married has been telling me about. Here is the scenario.

Rescuing them when you needed the support. Y and Z are a married couple who opened up fairly recently. Y had a really bad day at work and was feeling quite nervous about Z's date. Z asked what they can do for Y, since he had such a rough day. Y asked that Z come home by 10 from the date, so they can spend a little time together after Z's date, but before Y and Z's bedtime around 11. Z agreed and went on their date. Z does not get home until 10:30, and does not call to let Y know she is running late. Y then let Z know that they were hurt and is upset that Z did not follow through. At which time Z feels awful for being late, and not calling and starts a cycle of self loathing. When Y sees Z is self loathing, Y is upset by this and wants to comfort them, and does, putting aside Y's own feelings and rescuing Z from theirs. Which later turns into resentment for Y that their feelings needed to be put aside to rescue Z.

this is cycle, not the same situation, but the rescuing of Z when Y needed Z's support and commitment.

Is their a name for this type of cycle or behavior? Are Z's feelings not valid too? How could Y do things differently? How could Z do things differently? If you understand attachment types, which attachment style is Y? Is Z?

 

[TXretired]

Howdy. I am confused by all. Y came home at 1030. Well before the 1100 “curfew”. If Z wants Y to be there at a specific time, then establish one. If not don’t get upset.

 

[AlZig]

Howdy. I am confused by all. Y came home at 1030. Well before the 1100 “curfew”. If Z wants Y to be there at a specific time, then establish one. If not don’t get upset.

Z had asked Y what Y needed. Y asked Z to come home at 10 so they could spend time together before bed, which Z agreed. So Z did not follow through on an agreement Z made to Y. - this was a special case where Y needed something on a night Z was to go on a date.

 

[TXretired]

Sorry, I’m a little slow sometimes. I missed the 10 o’clock. Nothing is more important than communication. Communication can cause problems as much as it can prevent problems.I think it’s just time for a chat, and not make a big deal out of it for either of them.

 

[MeeraReed]

I would not be thrilled if I had a date with someone and they had to leave by a certain early time because their spouse had a bad day at work.

Why should a spouse's bad day impact the other spouse's date? It would be pretty absurd of spouse Y asked Z to leave their hobby or friend-hangout night early just for a bad at work. Why can't Y handle their own bad moods?

Or, if Z going on a date causes Y to feel sad/lonely/upset, either Y needs to deal with it themself, or this couple is not ready to be poly.

 

[GalaGirl]

I don't get it. Traffic and things happen. Isn't 10:30 PM close enough? Z ***is*** making effort to carve out some space to accommodate the unexpected rough day and be available to partner Y. They don't HAVE to be doing that.

Rather than get on the "side trip" thing.... I think Y could have said "Thanks! I appreciate you trying to get home early. I really wanted an hour together... so how about we go to bed at 11:30 PM instead of the usual 11 PM?" Like rather than stay in the stuck, move it forward so they can get the thing they wanted -- an hour of time together before going to sleep on a tough day.

Instead the whole "side trip" thing just seemed to add to the load rather than lighten the load. It's not Z's fault Y had a rough day. Why take it out on them?

If this couple wants to change they dynamic... they might need to recognize sooner when they are going "into the loop." And do something different about it. One or the other has to see it coming and pump the brakes to skirt the potential UGH in the road.

• GOAL: Spend an hour together when Z gets home.
• Z agreed and went on their date.
• Z does not get home until 10:30, and does not call to let Y know they are running late.
• Y then let Z know that they were hurt and is upset that Z did not follow through at coming home by 10 PM.
  • This is not getting to the goal. This is complaining. Y could have thanked Z for the effort and suggested 11:30 bedtime so it's not too late past usual but so they get the hour together. That would have been getting to the goal. Then all the rest could have be skipped. No side trip stuff:
    • At which time Z feels awful for being late, and not calling and starts a cycle of self loathing.
    • When Y sees Z is self loathing, Y is upset by this and wants to comfort them, and does, putting aside Y's own feelings and rescuing Z from theirs.
    • Which later turns into resentment for Y that their feelings needed to be put aside to rescue Z.

Alternately Z could have seen Y is upset . And upset people sometimes don't do great thinking. Z could OWN their trigger point and not let Y push that button. Instead of playing the self loathing loop, they could have been assertive. Could have said "I see you are bummed out I couldn't make it at 10 PM. I am sorry I forgot to text I was running late. You are important to me. I still want to do the hour together. How about instead of 11 PM bedtime we adjust to 11:30 PM. Could that work for you?"

Get things back on track to meeting the goal.

Then Y can feel seen/valued, and then they can choose to get on with it or choose to reschedule.

No side trip loop.

But if these two are in the habit of triggering each other into side trip loop de loos? They might be emotionally enmeshed and might want to look at detangling that and using better personal boundaries with each other.

Cuz really?

Z could say "I'm sorry this happened. It sucks to have a rough day from nowhere! I can do a long hug before I leave and another when I get back if that helps for now. And I can do longer time to spend with you tomorrow."

And let Y deal with their emotional management on their own the first night. And come help them tomorrow.

Because while a rough day at works sucks? I don't read anything "emergency" here.

Galagirl

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Rescuing them when you needed the support.

Spoiler alert: I totally thought this was about Z rescuing Y and how problematic this is.

Y had a really bad day at work and was feeling quite nervous about Z's date.

I banged my head and my toenail went black?

This makes no sense. Sounds like Y is chronically anxious and/or uncomfortable with polyamory and relies on Z to feel better about it.

asked what they can do for Y, since he had such a rough day. Y asked that Z come home by 10 from the date, so they can spend a little time together after Z's date, but before Y and Z's bedtime around 11.

That's a selfish ask.

Z agreed and went on their date.

Amateur mistake.

Z does not get home until 10:30, and does not call to let Y know she is running late. Y then let Z know that they were hurt and is upset that Z did not follow through.

Y is not looking attractive at all.

At which time Z feels awful for being late, and not calling and starts a cycle of self loathing.

Unsurprising. Y is manipulative and selfish IMO.

Y is upset by this and wants to comfort them, and does, putting aside Y's own feelings and rescuing Z from theirs. Which later turns into resentment for Y that their feelings needed to be put aside to rescue Z.

Sounds like Y feels rightfully guilty at how their manipulation works.

this is cycle, not the same situation, but the rescuing of Z when Y needed Z's support and commitment.

This is a cycle that can become abusive. Y abusing Z emotionally.

Is their a name for this type of cycle or behavior? Are Z's feelings not valid too? How could Y do things differently? How could Z do things differently? If you understand attachment types, which attachment style is Y? Is Z?

The name is manipulation and probably incompatibility.
Yes Z's feelings are valid.
Y could call a friend or otherwise manage their bad days.
I have no idea or care but Y needs to stop.
Poor Z.

 

[Marcus]

So Zed decided to cut their date a little short because Yeti had a bad day and wanted them to come home early.

If I'm dating Zed it would tell me that Zed is being kept on a very short leash and going out of their way to demonstrate to me that I am "secondary". This would be a yellow flag on the field and I would need to start keeping a close eye on that. While it doesn't mean I would stop dating Zed necessarily, it would definitely be an indicator that we need to have MANY more conversations before I get tangled up with them.

If I am Zed, I would be concerned about Yeti asking me to shorten my time with someone else to come home and comfort them because they had a bad day. Yeti even being bold enough to make that request would make me raise an eyebrow. That's some bold shit right there.

And Yeti had a bad day? What does that mean? Were they attacked in the parking lot on the way to the car, or maybe they got laid off? Emergencies are one thing, but otherwise they know I've got plans and are demonstrating that they are "top dog". The fact that Zed didn't cut their date short ENOUGH and Yeti got pissed about that is some bullshit that I can't even imagine. Girl you must be high, I cut my date short because you had a bad day and you still have the balls to give me a hard time about it?

I don't personally allow other people to dictate how my social interactions play out, so that would be an excellent opportunity to try out my patented "no, I won't be doing that" response.

You'd be surprised how many problems can be avoided just by saying "nope", when that's what you actually mean.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello AlZig,

Z probably shouldn't have agreed to come home at 10:00 p.m., but once she had promised to do so, she should have adhered to her word. Or at least, she should have called Y and let him know that she was running late. If she ended up feeling bad about the way things played out, she should have resolved to stick to her word in the future, or at least to not make any more promises that she couldn't keep. Anyway that's my opinion.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[dingedheart]

How long have z and y been married ? Maybe there is some codependence going on here.

I would suggest they deeply look at the reasons they wanted to open their relationship and then actively start disentangling from each other. There are plenty of situations where thoughtless words or actions can cause self loathing but being 1/2 hr late seems over the top. Maybe they’re both too sensitive and too needy to be doing this ?

 

[Magdlyn]

It shouldn't be that big of a deal to:
A. Need to leave a date early because of a "family problem."
B. Be late for the appointment at home.

I am not sure why Zed was late, but whether they lost track of time, or got held up from traffic or something else, a half hour late is not the end of the world. Indeed, if they were in traffic, they shouldn't be texting or calling, unless they have Bluetooth in their car.

I agree that just staying up an extra half hour would have been the best solution.

 

[AlZig]

So Zed decided to cut their date a little short because Yeti had a bad day and wanted them to come home early.

If I'm dating Zed it would tell me that Zed is being kept on a very short leash and going out of their way to demonstrate to me that I am "secondary". This would be a yellow flag on the field and I would need to start keeping a close eye on that. While it doesn't mean I would stop dating Zed necessarily, it would definitely be an indicator that we need to have MANY more conversations before I get tangled up with them.

If I am Zed, I would be concerned about Yeti asking me to shorten my time with someone else to come home and comfort them because they had a bad day. Yeti even being bold enough to make that request would make me raise an eyebrow. That's some bold shit right there.

And Yeti had a bad day? What does that mean? Were they attacked in the parking lot on the way to the car, or maybe they got laid off? Emergencies are one thing, but otherwise they know I've got plans and are demonstrating that they are "top dog". The fact that Zed didn't cut their date short ENOUGH and Yeti got pissed about that is some bullshit that I can't even imagine. Girl you must be high, I cut my date short because you had a bad day and you still have the balls to give me a hard time about it?

I don't personally allow other people to dictate how my social interactions play out, so that would be an excellent opportunity to try out my patented "no, I won't be doing that" response.

You'd be surprised how many problems can be avoided just by saying "nope", when that's what you actually mean.

Y had gotten laid off.
Z offered to cancel the date, Y said you should go and but maybe come back a little earlier like at 10pm.
Z has a pattern of not following through on their agreements, this was yet another example.

 

[AlZig]

Spoiler alert: I totally thought this was about Z rescuing Y and how problematic this is.


I banged my head and my toenail went black?

Y is primary bread winner at this household. They lost their job.

This makes no sense. Sounds like Y is chronically anxious and/or uncomfortable with polyamory and relies on Z to feel better about it.


That's a selfish ask.


Amateur mistake.


Y is not looking attractive at all.


Unsurprising. Y is manipulative and selfish IMO.

Is it manipulative it Z offered to cancel the date, but Y offered a compromise for them to be back early?

Sounds like Y feels rightfully guilty at how their manipulation works.

Z has a history of not following through on their word or not regarding a request made by Y, which Z agreed.

This is a cycle that can become abusive. Y abusing Z emotionally.


The name is manipulation and probably incompatibility.
Yes Z's feelings are valid.
Y could call a friend or otherwise manage their bad days.
I have no idea or care but Y needs to stop.
Poor Z.

 

[MeeraReed]

Okay. Being laid off is actually a much bigger deal than a "bad day at work." That would certainly qualify as a family emergency and be worth canceling a date over, especially if it was totally unexpected and they rely on Y's income.

However, the way you are framing it now, sounds like being a half hour late shouldn't have been a big deal. Z offered to cancel the date, Y said no you should go, but maybe come home a little early. Z agreed but came home 30 minutes later than expected.

This should NOT be a big deal to Y. Half hour late is hardly "not following through on agreements."

Unless Z has broken a lot of agreements and this is sort of a straw that broke the camel's back...in which case, there are other issues going on than the scenario as presented.

 

[Marcus]

Y had gotten laid off.
Z offered to cancel the date, Y said you should go and but maybe come back a little earlier like at 10pm.
Z has a pattern of not following through on their agreements, this was yet another example.

The real issue is that Zed showed up half an hour later than he had initially said? I mean I get that if this sort of thing happened a lot it would be pretty irritating and I would likely start changing how I interact with that person, but that's really what the problem is here?

Okay. Being laid off is actually a much bigger deal than a "bad day at work."

I'd be curious to know the timing of those events. Like, she got laid off the day of the date? Or she got laid off a couple of weeks ago?

It doesn't matter I suppose because it seems like there is some solid resentment already built up regarding tardiness.

Unless Z has broken a lot of agreements and this is sort of a straw that broke the camel's back...in which case, there are other issues going on than the scenario as presented.

I agree, there is more under the surface than someone being irritated about a partner showing up late. I'd guess there are much bigger issues hiding that need to be addressed.

 

[dingedheart]

This might sound like a stupid question but DID Z have a nice time on her date ?.

could it be she was dreading going home and facing realty ?

 

[GalaGirl]

Y had gotten laid off.
Z offered to cancel the date, Y said you should go and but maybe come back a little earlier like at 10pm.

Presumably Z would not offer things they are not actually willing to do. And getting laid off, while still not emergency... IS bigger than "I had a bad day at work."

Had Y accepted Z's offer and had Z canceled and rescheduled due to unexpected firing? Z stayed home to comfort Y? Then the whole fuss over "30 min late" could have been skipped.

But really, sometimes offering to cancel rather just DOING it is lame.

It's almost like both of them try to be "too nice" and it ends up backfiring because it would be better if one or the other would just be clear and assertive. Like stop doing this tip-toe thing.

And if anyone is saying one thing but meaning another... could state what they mean more clearly.

If anyone is wanting "mind reader-ing"... stop this. And state what they mean more clearly.

It's on them to improve this dynamic if they are tired of it.

Z has a pattern of not following through on their agreements, this was yet another example.

Again... knowing Z struggles to follow through on agreements? Y could have chosen for Z to cancel the whole date.

Or knowing Z struggles, Y could have called 10:30 PM "close enough" because Z was making effort and traffic does happen.

I'm with the others. 30 minutes being "the last straw" is odd.

I'm also wondering why their dynamic matters to you? Are you dating Z or Y? Or is this further out from you in the polycule? Like you date X, and the date Z had was with X. And then Z went home early to the wacky?

Galagirl