Open communication question

[Nonamesub]

Advice...

Nesting partner and i together 2.5 yrs, started off as poly but changed to more swinger style partly due to covid and some early on issues.

Both of us match on kinks, interests, but not drive. Our sex levels are different in that i am very attracted to him and would love much more sex from him whereas he is someone who gets easily bored with familiar where his sex drive is also high but not for me. I enjoy sex and such with others too, but i dont get enough from him that i feel undesired and it interferes with our sex with others sometimes.

At the beginning we started off as very open with communication. Both can access phones any time, ask questions about messages, etc. I rarely ask, but everytime i have hes very defensive about it. Feels like its an invasion of privacy and such.

Of course, after a bit of talking, we have more meaningful convo etc. All other aspects of our relationship, kiddos, etc is great and we both actively work on our own faults because its how we are.

The part i need advice on is in our talk i am going over what i need in terms of sexual communication he has with others and i am running into a wall with solutions/compromise of seeing what works.

I want to be able to ask about convos, see convos, etc when i have a question without it being a big deal or him feeling privacy is invaded, but thats how he is feeling on the rare times i ask despite that being our rule from the start. That then makes me hesitent to ask so that doesnt feel like it gets anywhere.

If there just arent private sexual convos with others then i feel like he would resent me for that or feel more so on privacy. Plus we both like to though he definitely does it 1000x more than i do. Im not much of a talker.

Were both aware we each have trust issues from previous relationships and both accomadate each other in ways we feel comfortable to put ourselves at ease. I am just looking for options of what we could try or insight.

 

[Evie]

I'm genuinely curious about this sharing between yourselves of sexual conversations with others and why you feel it's a part of polyamory. Whether we've been open or closed, Adam (hubby) and I don't access each other's phones or read each other's text messages, emails or PMs. Why would we? It would be rude to whomever either of us are talking with, especially if they didn't know. Everyone deserves privacy, including extramarital partners.

If what you're doing isn't working, then I'd suggest try doing something quite different. Throw out that rule that isn't working and do something else which in this case isn't actually a compromise, it's trust and no need to read those messages, and more quality time yourselves.

I enjoy sex and such with others too, but i don't get enough from him that i feel undesired and it interferes with our sex with others sometimes.

So are you trying to get your sexual needs met through voyeurism into his flirty communications? Because that's one implication from you wanting to be a part of his extramarital sexual conversations.

What is it that you want to know, precisely? You seem to already know it's happening, but are you keen on hearing the juicy details? I can imagine why he feels it's an invasion of his privacy, and the privacy of the people he's messaging with. Perhaps they are sharing things that are very personal to the other person/s?

If there just aren't private sexual convos with others then i feel like he would resent me for that or feel more so on privacy. Plus we both like to though he definitely does it 1000x more than i do.

I'm not quite sure what this means except that you think he's getting a hell of a lot more sexting action than you are. And maybe that you know that a new rule shutting down sexting with others wouldn't be a great idea as it would likely lead to resentment.

But the bottom line is, you need more sexual attention from him, not to know exactly how he's spending his sexual energy elsewhere. Start with that conversation, and perhaps planning adult date nights between the two of you when you can get away from the kiddos and never-ending household chores for a while and work on nurturing your shared kinky, sexual selves.

If voyeurism is one of your kinks, then actively negotiate with a kinky play partner that they sext and you read it later. That way it's deliberately not an invasion of privacy since the other person knows the intention ahead of time.

 

[Nonamesub]

I'm genuinely curious about this sharing between yourselves of sexual conversations with others and why you feel it's a part of polyamory. Whether we've been open or closed, Adam (hubby) and I don't access each other's phones or read each other's text messages, emails or PMs. Why would we? It would be rude to whomever either of us are talking with, especially if they didn't know. Everyone deserves privacy, including extramarital partners.

If what you're doing isn't working, then I'd suggest try doing something quite different. Throw out that rule that isn't working and do something else which in this case isn't actually a compromise, it's trust and no need to read those messages, and more quality time yourselves.


So are you trying to get your sexual needs met through voyeurism into his flirty communications? Because that's one implication from you wanting to be a part of his extramarital sexual conversations.

What is it that you want to know, precisely? You seem to already know it's happening, but are you keen on hearing the juicy details? I can imagine why he feels it's an invasion of his privacy, and the privacy of the people he's messaging with. Perhaps they are sharing things that are very personal to the other person/s?


I'm not quite sure what this means except that you think he's getting a hell of a lot more sexting action than you are. And maybe that you know that a new rule shutting down sexting with others wouldn't be a great idea as it would likely lead to resentment.

But the bottom line is, you need more sexual attention from him, not to know exactly how he's spending his sexual energy elsewhere. Start with that conversation, and perhaps planning adult date nights between the two if you when you can get away from the kiddos and never-ending household chores for a while and work on nurturing your shared kinky, sexual selves.

If voyeurism is one of your kinks, then actively negotiate with a kinky play partner that they sext and you read it later. That way it's deliberately not an invasion of privacy since the other person knows the intention ahead of time.

I appreciate the reply, but i dont get the impression that you understood or i conveyed incorrectly.

I never said i thought reading messages was poly related. I am asking on this forum as my partner and i have been poly before and couldnt find a good forum for open relationships etc. In other words, seemed a good place to ask.

I get you arent for reading messages etc, as for us it was actually something my partner asked for at the beginning (mutual sharing) and i agree with as well. Im well aware it doesnt work for everyone, it was something thay we both wanted at the beginning.

No, i am not using his messages as a sexual release nor did i state i was. I do find that with messages being open with them when it comes to people outside our relationship and D/s relationship that its importnant. Not that it needs to be a constant share, but being able to ask about something said etc or express discomfort if something seems to step over a line.

No, neither of us are online only people. We very often engage with others, events, etc.

I was trying to convey context, as its not simple to easily give all the info to sum up the details needed for advice. I dont have a problem with him being more sexty than i. As i said, im not an overly talkative person and that aspect has never bothered me.

I am only asking for advice or insight into ways to find something to try for communication for us who have been all open communication to a way that still provides openness but also doesnt feel invasive.

 

[Evie]

Thanks for the further information and clarification, it will help hone the advice you get as others read this thread, too

So he initially tabled the rule but is now displaying that he's uncomfortable with it but hasn't explicitly renegotiated it so you're wanting to be able to go to him with suggestions for modification already up your sleeve. Have I got it more right this time?

I didn't think you were online only people, but that online was a significant part of the communications, importantly, the currently contentious part.

I'm still not sure what benefits both of you about reading each other's messages with other people. I understand wanting to feel like you have open communication, but open communication can mean a lot of different things. What would feel open enough, but protecting privacy to you guys? Because we could make a heap of suggestions but still totally miss the mark.

 

[Nonamesub]

Thanks for the further information and clarification, it will help hone the advice you get as others read this thread, too

So he initially tabled the rule but is now displaying that he's uncomfortable with it but hasn't explicitly renegotiated it so you're wanting to be able to go to him with suggestions for modification already up your sleeve. Have I got it more right this time?

I didn't think you were online only people, but that online was a significant part of the communications, importantly, the currently contentious part.

I'm still not sure what benefits both of you about reading each other's messages with other people. I understand wanting to feel like you have open communication, but open communication can mean a lot of different things. What would feel open enough, but protecting privacy to you guys? Because we could make a heap of suggestions but still totally miss the mark.

No, our convo turned to a discussion on communication the other day when a message was asked about and we came across an issue we were both having though in different ways. In the process, we each explained our feelings etc and one of the things is what do i need in terms of openness with messaging. Im also willing to try different ways to see what works, but i want to have suggestions going back into the convo not just a "i prefer this but no idea how".

We each have trust issues from life and that is why we originally wanted openness with messages as it brought a feeling of trust and ease to our trust issues. I still feel its beneficial, this isnt to say something i do much of but being able to and it being a nonplus matter is important to me.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle. I am having a hard time following your thread.

FWIW?

The part i need advice on is in our talk i am going over what i need in terms of sexual communication he has with others and i am running into a wall with solutions/compromise of seeing what works.

I want to be able to ask about convos, see convos, etc when i have a question without it being a big deal or him feeling privacy is invaded, but thats how he is feeling on the rare times i ask despite that being our rule from the start. That then makes me hesitent to ask so that doesnt feel like it gets anywhere.

Even though that was the old agreement? That both could see each other's phones and read texts from other people?

How about you use open communication and simply ask him something like "Do you still want to have this agreement? Where we both can ask about seeing each other's phones and texts to other people? Or let that go?"

We each have trust issues from life and that is why we originally wanted openness with messages as it brought a feeling of trust and ease to our trust issues.

So... can you both trust each other now and let that agreement go? Have the old trust issues been resolved?

I still feel its beneficial, this isnt to say something i do much of but being able to and it being a nonplus matter is important to me.

Could you please be willing to clarify?

Is it that you want to continue to talk openly about things without him getting in a huff about it? Like in general? Not necessarily the phone/text thing? You want to feel safe bringing up conversation topics with him without him going all defensive and huffy?

Or is it specifically about the phone/text thing?

Or something else that you want or need to foster closeness or connection with him?

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Nonamesub,

I guess I have two main questions. First, do the people you sext know that their sexts can be shared between the two of you, and, do they consent to that being the case? and my second question is, is your nesting partner still okay with sharing those sexts with you, or has he changed his mind about that, even though it was his idea in the first place?

If the people you sext don't know that their sexts can be shared (however rarely) between the two of you, then you may have the very simple solution of informing them, and getting their consent to the sharing. If they already know (and consent), and it's your nesting partner who's feeling uncomfortable about sharing their sexts with you, then you have a more complicated problem on your hands. I guess my question would then be, can he articulate what makes him uncomfortable with that level of openness? Knowing what's at the root of his discomfort might make an agreeable compromise more apparent.

It's unusual for poly people to share their private (e.g., sexual) convos with each other ... but that doesn't mean it's out of the question. The important thing is, does everyone involved in the arrangement know that that's what's happening? and, do they all consent to it? You need your nesting partner's other partners' knowledge and consent, and, you need your nesting partner's consent (he already knows what you're asking). And if he doesn't consent ... as he puts it, if he doesn't consent to the "invasion of his privacy" ... then you need to get to the root of why he doesn't consent. To see if there can be an agreeable compromise.

I hope I can help you work that out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Nonamesub]

I'm sorry you struggle. I am having a hard time following your thread.

FWIW?



Even though that was the old agreement? That both could see each other's phones and read texts from other people?

How about you use open communication and simply ask him something like "Do you still want to have this agreement? Where we both can ask about seeing each other's phones and texts to other people? Or let that go?"



So... can you both trust each other now and let that agreement go? Have the old trust issues been resolved?



Could you please be willing to clarify?

Is it that you want to continue to talk openly about things without him getting in a huff about it? Like in general? Not necessarily the phone/text thing? You want to feel safe bringing up conversation topics with him without him going all defensive and huffy?

Or is it specifically about the phone/text thing?

Or something else that you want or need to foster closeness or connection with him?

Galagirl

It was our original agreement that we have always followed. Hes feeling a lack of privacy from it, but also recognizes he feels that even from when i sit next to him and happen to see the phone he is holding if i happen to look to the side - which we both understand isnt exactly rational.

We trust each other more than anyone else we know and know we have each others backs. That said, we both still have trust issue's due to both of us having had long lives (yes, we also seek help for ourselves etc).

This is the only time huffiness/defensiveness happen to be an issue. That said, the defensiveness for it does trigger my trusting issues as it gives an aire of feeling distrustful. I am also wording when asking as well.

Me personally, i feel the openness with it allows me to feel trustful of the private sexual convos with others but without it im not sure i feel comfortable with private sexual convos to others. That said, im willing to try other variations to better suit us both but trying to get other perspectives and advice to see if anything triggers an idea.

 

[Nonamesub]

Hello Nonamesub,

I guess I have two main questions. First, do the people you sext know that their sexts can be shared between the two of you, and, do they consent to that being the case? and my second question is, is your nesting partner still okay with sharing those sexts with you, or has he changed his mind about that, even though it was his idea in the first place?

If the people you sext don't know that their sexts can be shared (however rarely) between the two of you, then you may have the very simple solution of informing them, and getting their consent to the sharing. If they already know (and consent), and it's your nesting partner who's feeling uncomfortable about sharing their sexts with you, then you have a more complicated problem on your hands. I guess my question would then be, can he articulate what makes him uncomfortable with that level of openness? Knowing what's at the root of his discomfort might make an agreeable compromise more apparent.

It's unusual for poly people to share their private (e.g., sexual) convos with each other ... but that doesn't mean it's out of the question. The important thing is, does everyone involved in the arrangement know that that's what's happening? and, do they all consent to it? You need your nesting partner's other partners' knowledge and consent, and, you need your nesting partner's consent (he already knows what you're asking). And if he doesn't consent ... as he puts it, if he doesn't consent to the "invasion of his privacy" ... then you need to get to the root of why he doesn't consent. To see if there can be an agreeable compromise.

I hope I can help you work that out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

Yes everyone we message knows we both share and access.

 

[SarahD]

For us, we can totally access each other’s devices for valid reasons. Family messages, planning, convince or just to play a game: But we will not and do not read messages between partners. That’s personal and private and for us not about sex because those are relationships. (Would you be ok if he handed his phone to a partner to read the conversations between you and he?

I’d loose it if he shared some of the dumb shit I text when I’m mad or sad. To me it’s not about sexting, we never do that.

 

[Nonamesub]

For us, we can totally access each other’s devices for valid reasons. Family messages, planning, convince or just to play a game: But we will not and do not read messages between partners. That’s personal and private and for us not about sex because those are relationships. (Would you be ok if he handed his phone to a partner to read the conversations between you and he?

I’d loose it if he shared some of the dumb shit I text when I’m mad or sad. To me it’s not about sexting, we never do that.

To clarify, we are not poly currently. Mostly just swinging. The people we message are just for hookups but are aware we read/share. Also, as a matter of fact i am comfortable with my stuff being shared. These are not other relationships we are texting, just friends/hookups.

 

[Evie]

Would it be enough to know Who but not What? Could he agree to tell you that much?

Kevin's right about getting to the root of his discomfort with things now.

 

[GalaGirl]

If you are both looking at each other's cel phone things as a "stepping stone" agreement to show that there is nothing to cause distrust... how long does that have to last before you actually DO trust and no longer need to look for reassurance? Where just verbal reassurance is enough? That might be something to talk about.

Could it help to have a check in time? Like Friday at 8 PM you share any news that's news worthy? Then you get to chat and be open about whatever swinging activities each one is planning.

And he gets some privacy the rest of the week without you accidentally peeking over his shoulder when sitting next to him?

And he himself -- if he wants more privacy with his texts... well, pick a private room and not a common area like the kitchen or living room.

Could any of that help?

Galagirl

 

[JaneQSmythe]

... Not that it needs to be a constant share, but being able to ask about something said etc or express discomfort if something seems to step over a line.

While poly, like swinging, is a subset of ethical non-monogamy (ENM) I think that some of the disconnect you are feeling here may be that swinging type of agreements tend to be very couple-centric and so the idea of "sharing" personal info with your partner is more expected/accepted. Many (not all) of the posters here (myself included) seem to be more of the mind-set that private conversations (via txt, email, etc.) are Private.

I may read a funny text to my husband, or ask him what he thinks about something someone said in a text, but in a manner that is more along the lines of I am paraphrasing a phone conversation that I had with someone, not recording the conversation for someone to review later. My husband and I know the codes and passwords to each other's devices and accounts so that we could access them if necessary and will check the other's phone if it is blowing up and they are sleeping or unavailable to see if it was important/an emergency - but usually we wouldn't have to go beyond the lock screen to know if it is a family emergency or work issue.

The phrase that stuck out to me was the one I bolded above "if something seems to step over a line" - so...the question that immediately comes to mind is , what exactly is the "line" that could be "stepped over" that reading messages would help assuage? Unless they are plotting to murder me and are too stupid to realize that even "deleted" texts are never really gone, then what useful information could I possibly learn? Context is important and two people texting have had other interactions (in person, on the phone, etc) that provide background to their conversation that the reader may not understand.

But...I am an older person, perhaps I do not understand. My cell phone is also my work phone, so I routinely delete ALL of my messages, texts, photos, voicemails, etc. every few days to limit the data that ANY random person could glean from it. If I NEED to keep something, I will screenshot it and save it to an external hard-drive...but things are rarely that important. (I DO keep my dog pictures - because she is super-adorable!)

 

[GalaGirl]

I thought of another thing...

Is it not so much you asking about his sexts with other people... but HOW and WHEN you ask that's the turn off? Like tone of voice or approach?

I'm not saying you do this... but pretend you were on your phone. And I come up to you and say things like this.

• (Right when you are holding the phone) "Hey, gimme that. I want to see."
  
  
• (NOT when you are busy texting, but some general time whether you have your phone or not) "I'm curious if you have been meeting new people. Could you please be willing to share?"

Can you hear the difference in tone?

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

I think I am getting that there are issues around being poly that (along with Covid) let to noname and her nesting partner switching from poly to swinging. Maybe this is the wrong board to ask about wanting to read the intimate conversations one's partner is having with another partner/fwb/hookup.

In poly, there is almost always a certain understanding to have a degree of independence. We sometimes say, if we are partnered, we aren't a "couple blob." We ask on this board, if a couple signs up, to each get their own account, or at least sign their post from a shared account, so the readers know exactly whom is speaking. Couples do not share one brain, no matter how much "one-ness" they may feel in the depths of their connection/sexuality, etc.

There seems to be a continuing lack of trust here, despite being 2.5 years in. My guess is that, since you're no longer poly, but swingers, you want to make sure a "line is not crossed," and by this you mean, bf isn't getting too lovey-dovey with his fuck partner(s). Would that be it? I know in swinging the couple comes first. There is supposed to be sex, or at most, good friendship with the other sex partners, but not romance, dating, and things like that, that could cause a fear that the new person would take the older partner's place somehow.

Could you confirm if I am on the right track?

Just because you've been hurt by others in the past does not mean your current partner is untrustworthy. Although, there does seem to be some real contention around the fact that he's lost desire for you, while desiring others more. Oddly, some people find it easier to have better sex with relative strangers than with their known partner. This is on the rare side, as most people find emotional intimacy increases desire, then the desire increases the emotional intimacy and bond, and so on. My own attitude is, it is difficult for me to have purely recreational sex. If I get with someone, and the sex is great, I want to get to know their soul. If their "soul" does not vibrate with mine, I will lose sexual desire.

I know some poly people can and do also swing, though. It's not unheard of. But maybe they swing somewhat differently than pure swingers do.

Some people find it easier to speak more openly to strangers than to their own spouse. I think they have a fear of looking weak or being judged more harshly by someone they know. Sometimes we don't feel free to share our deepest thoughts and feelings with our chosen nesting partner because we know their low self esteem will cause them to feel threatened if we are 100% honest about our less than stellar feelings or thoughts... I know this was the case with me and my ex-husband. He felt threatened by my independence. He wanted me to be "good and wholesome," and when I desired someone else, or just thought they were cute (in passing), or had kinky thoughts, he'd shut me down and I would feel evil.