Open marriage (on his side) semi-mono-poly

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Goddessvibes

New member
Note: I have autism and ADHD.

My husband told me 4 weeks ago that he wanted to explore other people (1 person now in particular). I am still dealing with how to process that. With two weeks of almost no food, sleep or selfcare, we have been arguing, crying and screaming at each other every night.

I see my marriage collapsing. He feels restricted and has always been clear about his poly feelings, only I didn't even know what that was and thought I could change him.

We are 7 years together now, have explored some in swingers clubs, where I have done things with him next to me.

I have a history of sexually and mentally abusive boyfriends, so I have restricted him there. I don't know if I want to do this again.

But now that he wants to cut me out so I can't become jealous and he can be more free without me, that makes my skin crawl. I feel abandoned, even though he doesn't want to lose me. He wants to be with me, but also go out with that woman and possibly do more. He has a great connection with her and feels a great attraction.

I just don't feel special anymore. And if I come up with boundaries, he lets me know I'm restricting again. Well. Boundaries. I made demands. That didn't go well.

He finally made a little list. He wrote down some things that I could accept and vice versa.

How can I cope with this? I can see him doing things with her. I don't want that in my mind.

Hopefully I can find some common ground or tips here on how to accept/process this.
 
Honestly you just have to think you married a poly guy and that he isn't those guys you dated before. You won't see anything because he wants space with her - not for you to watch.

I think it's a case of you just surrendering to the idea that he will be loving other people too.
 
Every time we have spoken about this, I tend to make snarky comments. Because I am hurt.
@SEASONEDpolyAgain how do I do that? As I previously stated, I am autistic and everything in my mind is very black and white. Also change is super scary.
Het tells me it will not be about love, just being with a friend and if there would happen something sexually between them, that that should be okay.
Everything in my body constricts and I get a panic attack just thinking about it.. I don't want to divorce, but I don't want to lose myself either with this.. And one day I am quite ok with it, the other day I get those panic attacks.

@ChristopherGibbs thank you! We do talk, except he feels cornered when I make those snarky comments. You know, the bitchy ones at the end of each sentence to just drive in the knife deeper.
It is the way I feel in my head, I don't want to hurt him, but show him how much I can't cope and how much it hurts me..
Already trying to keep those thoughts inside my head now..
 
Goddessvibes said:
Het tells me it will not be about love, just being with a friend and if there would happen something sexually between them, that that should be okay.
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You're probably feeling confused because what he's saying doesn't make sense from what you're written here.

You're already swinging, right? So he already has the "sex not love" connections he's looking for. Unless what he's saying is that he wants to attend swinging events alone and engage in recreational sex as a single player rather than a couple.

But what you seem to be saying is that he wants to spend quality time with this individual (and perhaps others) in what is a dating context. That is definitely the pursuit of companionship from these other relationships. Companionship, sexual intimacy and a common goal usually spells love.

So the reality is that he's asking if he can other romantic and sexual partners. He can't remove the significance of that request by playing it down. That will just lead to confusion.

It sounds like he's saying what he thinks you're most likely to tolerate and naively hoping he can keep things within parameters that don't create monumental change. That's unlikely to work
 
SEASONEDpolyAgain said:
You're probably feeling confused because what he's saying doesn't make sense from what you're written here.

You're already swinging, right? So he already has the "sex not love" connections he's looking for. Unless what he's saying is that he wants to attend swinging events alone and engage in recreational sex as a single player rather than a couple.

But what you seem to be saying is that he wants to spend quality time with this individual (and perhaps others) in what is a dating context. That is definitely the pursuit of companionship from these other relationships. Companionship, sexual intimacy and a common goal usually spells love.

So the reality is that he's asking if he can other romantic and sexual partners. He can't remove the significance of that request by playing it down. That will just lead to confusion.

It sounds like he's saying what he thinks you're most likely to tolerate and naively hoping he can keep things within parameters that don't create monumental change. That's unlikely to work
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He did not have sex with others in our marriage yet. I wanted swinging to be something that we do when we are together, not separate.
Friends with benefits is the thing he calls it. I don't think (hope) that love is involved. He did this with his ex too, she was ok with everything.
When his friend back then was falling in lvoe, he ended the connection because he was in love with his ex and didn't feel anything for the other person. Just friendship and a physical connection.
 
Goddessvibes said:
When his friend back then was falling in lvoe, he ended the connection because he was in love with his ex and didn't feel anything for the other person. Just friendship and a physical connection.
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From experience, the problem likely wasn't so much that she felt love or that he felt nothing for the other person. The problem was likely that her feelings of love were accompanied by the desire for traditional relationship stuff that he already had with his ex.

This is actually a good sign, because as it shows, when these needs exceeded his availability, he cut it off.

The problem comes in if/when he meets someone who is content without those things but they mutually desire some form of commitment from each other. You might want to call it a "secondary relationship".

What I'd start to do from now is stop seeing relationships in these extremes, even if he does. Just because you don't want to get married to someone, it's very unlikely you "feel nothing" for them if you've shared both sexual intimacy and friendship. He's going to be feeling something for these people, probably love - but he can love them and have relationships with them that do not seek to replace or displace yours.

That's a time where your differences with your partner will be most highlighted because he doesn't view this other relationships as a threat to your own and then your "demands" will seem even more irrational and unreasonable.
 
I'm so sorry.

I see my marriage collapsing. He feels restricted and has always been clear about his poly feelings, only I didn't even know what that was and thought I could change him.
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Gently... I think you two could have sorted this out before marriage.

If this is just NOT your thing, it's okay to say so. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting monogamy, or wanting "monogamish," most of the time monogamy, maybe a little swinging. But you don't sound especially excited about even swinging. Is that true?

On his side, there is NOTHING wrong with wanting ethical non-monogamy or ethical polyamory. It sounds like he's been clear about wanting that. The problem comes when two people who want opposite-seeming things try to make it go anyway, as you see happening here.

With 2 weeks of almost no food, sleep or selfcare, we have been arguing, crying and screaming at each other every night.
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That's a lot. If you two are at this level, I strongly suggest not doing anything right now, other than setting up an appointment and then talking to a couple's counselor who is knowledgeable about non-monogamy.

YMMV, but you could start seeking here:

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory
www.polyfriendly.org

If you can work something out without damaging either one's wellbeing, great. If you cannot, see if you can have as peaceful a parting as possible, under the circumstances, so he can be free to seek the non-monogamy model(s) he wants, you can be free to seek the monogamy you want, and neither one has to be fighting or losing sleep or dinging their health any more. Allow the relationship shape to change.

That is my suggestion. Talk to a counselor and figure out what can be done.

Galagirl
 
GalaGirl said:
I think you two could have sorted this out before marriage.
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They could have. But how common is it for women to think after they hook a man, they can change them? The fact is, women often do change men. Let's face it. Men may come into a relationship sort of like a cave man. Women may teach them more about personal hygiene, about good orderly habits in general, about how to keep their shared living space clean and nice, about how to treat a woman nicely, as she deserves, and most importantly, more about opening up to sharing feelings and being vulnerable. Doing these things can help many men to bond, feel grateful and feel more committed.

Unless-- the man is truly into polyamory, or at least into carrying on multiple friendly yet sexual relationships, as is the case here. There are certain things women can't change in their men.
GalaGirl said:
If this is just NOT your thing, it's ok to say so. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting monogamy, or wanting "monogamish," like most of the time monogamy and maybe a little swinging. But you don't sound especially excited about even the swinging. Is that true?

On his side, there is NOTHING wrong with wanting ethical non-monogamy or ethical polyamory. It sounds like he's been clear about wanting that.

The problem comes when two people who want opposite-seeming things try to make it go anyway, as you see happening here.

If you two are at this level, I strongly suggest not doing anything right now, other than setting up an appointment and then talking to a couple's counselor who is knowledgeable about non-monogamy.
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First and foremost, stop talking about it. Go to your separate corners, so to speak. Lick your wounds. Rest, sleep, eat, take a walk, do yoga, go to the gym. Maybe go get a fresh haircut, a mani or a pedi. Do the best you can with self care. Go talk to a friend about it, if you have someone who will listen respectfully.

Constantly talking about this heavy upsetting topic together, on no sleep, malnourished, will get you nowhere but hell. It's pointless to try and discuss this topic now, if all you can do is snark sarcastically at him and say the most wounding things you can think of.

In my opinion and experience, any conversation in which there is emotional overload should just STOP. Leave the room. Go to a friend's place, your sister's, your parents,' wherever you can just have some peace to do self care for a bit. Then you can make a counseling appointment, either for yourself, or for both of you.
GalaGirl said:
YMMV, but you could start seeking here:

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory
www.polyfriendly.org

If you can work something out without damaging either one's well being, great. If you cannot, see if you can have as peaceful a parting as possible, under the circumstances. Then he can be free to seek the non-monogamy model(s) he wants, you can be free to seek the monogamy you want, and neither one has to be fighting or losing sleep or dinging their health any more. Allow the relationship shape to change.

That is my suggestion. Talk to a counselor and figure out what can be done.

Galagirl
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Also, I want to confirm that polyamory, or an open relationship, does not mean group sex. There is absolutely no need for you to be in the room when your husband has sex with this potential dating person. There is not even any need for you to meet her, ever. There is no need for her to come to your house at all. She can host your husband, or they can find somewhere else to go. Your own place should be your safe space (if you do decide to stay with hubs and go forward with this open model he desires).
 
I think she's picturing it in her head, and less worried about the actual space sharing of sex. I mean I'm sure if just imagining it is a problem, then there are fears of being in the same room. But it's the visualization she can't stop doing.

That's very common. In fact, I'm poly, and sometimes that thought still bothers me (VERY rare now, though, and I get past it).

If you are asking 'How do I stop doing that?' I'm not sure. I'm not a psychologist, and I'd argue that a better tactic would be to work on getting past it bothering you. My partners have sex with other people. I tend not to picture it, but I guess if I DID, I would ask myself "Ok, and now what? My partner is enjoying herself with someone else. Why does this bother me?" Often, the answer is some worry about whether she enjoys it more than she does me or will not want to be with me anymore, or whatever. But that's not true for poly people (or ENM people in general). It doesn't have to be true for anyone, but it's especially not true in these cases.

Turns out, you can have fun, good sex with more than one person, without even comparing them. Or you could compare them but still enjoy both. Or you like parts of one and parts of the other, and every other combination. Basically, enjoying things with other people does not prevent our partners from enjoying things with us. We get this with friendship, but we are taught that love and intimacy are different. They aren't. But how do you INTERNALIZE this? Time, therapy, etc can help a lot. It's possible you still can't, in which case you can't be in an open relationship. That's OK. You don't have to be. It's never fun to break up (or divorce), but sometimes it's best for all involved, even if it is sad.
 
Magdlyn said:
The fact is, women often do change men. Let's face it. Men may come into a relationship sort of like a cave man. Women may teach them more about personal hygiene, about good orderly habits in general, about how to keep their shared living space clean and nice, about how to treat a woman nicely, as she deserves, and most importantly, more about opening up to sharing feelings and being vulnerable. Doing these things can help many men to bond, feel grateful and feel more committed.
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This is what I've been trying to touch on recently. And then we feel resentful when it doesn't pay off in the ways one expects.
 
So related to my life right now. My metamour (I'm male; so is he) is basically monogamous in thinking. Yeah, he's in an ENM relationship, but for him it's about swinging. For my girlfriend, it's poly. He can't seem to wrap his head around the idea of FULL love with more than one person. My girlfriend is hoping he'll catch up, but I'm skeptical. But surely we all had to learn that love isn't exclusive at some point. I mean I didn't always know it. OTOH, I've known it since my 30s (I'm 49; my metamour is 53). But I guess everyone develops differently. We'll see!
 
SEASONEDpolyAgain said:
This is what I've been trying to touch on recently. And then we feel resentful when it doesn't pay off in the ways one expects.
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It's part of our culture. I've known and know lots of men, especially younger ones, who come from what I call a bachelor's hall situation, a frat house, a dorm room, or an apartment they share with other young men. Those places! Reek to high heaven of dirty sox and sweaty armpits, old pizza, spilled beer, weed and stale cigarettes. If there's a dog, her hair is everywhere. There are dead plants on the windowsill, beard hairs on the sink, the "decorations" are sports equipment and video game consoles.

Maybe some of these young men emerge from these hellholes all shined up and sparkly, but others will be in wrinkled shirts they've pulled off the floor and smelt the armpits of to see if they are semi-OK to wear, ripped ill-fitting pants, old sneakers, and a sweat-stained backwards baseball cap. And they think they're good to go. lol

Just being around an averagely-clean woman will "change" many of these guys. They want to get laid, after all. But I agree that women who plan to make huge changes in their bfs and husbands are in for a rude awakening.
 
Magdlyn said:
It's part of our culture. I've known and know lots of men, especially younger ones, who come from what I call a bachelor's hall situation, a frat house, a dorm room, or an apartment they share with other young men. Those places! Reek to high heaven of dirty sox and sweaty armpits, old pizza, spilled beer, weed and stale cigarettes. If there's a dog, her hair is everywhere. There are dead plants on the windowsill, beard hairs on the sink, the "decorations" are sports equipment and video game consoles.

Maybe some of these young men emerge from these hellholes all shined up and sparkly, but others will be in wrinkled shirts they've pulled off the floor and smelt the armpits of to see if they are semi-OK to wear, ripped ill-fitting pants, old sneakers, and a sweat-stained backwards baseball cap. And they think they're good to go. lol

Just being around an averagely-clean woman will "change" many of these guys. They want to get laid, after all. But I agree that women who plan to make huge changes in their bfs and husbands are in for a rude awakening.
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Yes. I'd say generally speaking, queer men are a bit better. It's exhausting though, to put up with that. The "best" ones of those guys can adapt to being instructed what to do, but nothing is of their own volition. It becomes like giving a teenager chores.

The other side of this is that some women genuinely enjoy being in this "mommy" role to their male partners and actively seek people who clearly are this way inclined. They like it until they have to put up with the downsides of someone like this, which is usually immaturity, depressive tendencies that impact the relationship and a compulsion to alternate between rebellion and resentment towards their partner/"parental figure".

Yes, you get someone dependent on you, but does it feel like a partner or a child?
 
Hello Goddessvibes,

It sounds like your husband does want to lose you (so that he can be more free), and he doesn't. You and he both seem to have some torn feelings about this poly business (you have shared some swinger experiences, but poly is a whole other ballgame).

Is it possible he could do things with the other woman, without you having to see that? or when you say "see," do you mean that literally, or figuratively. Maybe you mean that just knowing he is doing things with her, is making your skin crawl?

How does he feel about the idea of you exploring another person (besides him)? Is he willing to let you do that? or is he insisting that the marriage should only be open on his side? How would you feel about exploring another person? Would you want to do that?

I take it he just wants this other woman to be a friend with benefits. Does it help you to know that that's all he wants with her. Would you want to find another man who could be a friend with benefits to you? Would your husband be okay with that?

Sorry to hear about the panic attacks you have been having. Does your husband know that you have been having the panic attacks? Does that matter to him, or does he want to be this woman's friend with benefits no matter how it affects you? Does he care about you?

Does he know that the snarky comments you have made have been because you are hurt? or does he take them personally, and maybe even want to retaliate against you by having this relationship with this other woman despite your panic attacks?

I ask these questions in order to get a better idea of how to help you. You said you wanted to find some common ground or tips on how to accept/process this. Your husband plays a role in this too, he needs to be considerate of your feels so that you can accept this.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
 
@kdt26417 He is absolutely fine with me exploring my side of being poly!
He encourages it. I am bisexual and the only positive thing I see about it, is that I am able to explore my bisexual side a bit more. Except my headspace is not there. I (for now)cannot see myself doing things with someone separately from my husband. I don't want another man to do those things with. My autism makes it harder, because this thing is such a big change, that it creates an error in my mind.

I have already contacted my doctor for seeing a psychologist for this. I know I need this for creating a better headspace, because now I am internalizing things and with that I cannot cope.

It does help to thing that that is all he wants with her. Except my mind creates all kinds of scenarios..My husband is super considerate, except he doesn't understand the feelings I'm having, because he doesn't experience them himself.
I told him I don't want to see any 'evidence'. No hairs in his car, not the smells..

The worst part is.. When we were swinging, she was the first person I had sex with. So now he sometimes says 'why can you, and I can't? 'Because he was there with me...
She made clear that the doesn't want to do anything with women anymore, so I am out of the question. She is married too and her husband is ok with this.
 
Most poly people do not think that poly is for everyone. There are some problematic tendencies in ANY relationship that are related to social traditions. Since (successful) poly people have recognized and worked to break those tendencies, it might sometimes seem like they are judging people in monogamous relationships. But there is nothing wrong with being monogamous. The problematic tendencies are problematic because they are harmful to people in relationships (of any sort). Being monogamous is not problematic in itself, however. It's the correct choice for many people!

Also, people change. You might one day decide you are more open to poly. I wouldn't have been ready to be poly in my 20s, but in my 30s my view of relationships changed a lot. I started to see my partners differently, as autonomous beings, and my relationship with them was no longer based on seeing two people become one. My wife likes to say "We are fine apart; we don't need each other at all. We are just better together." That lack of need for another person is very helpful for poly, and I'm not saying that monogamous people are codependent or anything. I'm just noting that you probably have to believe something like the above to be poly. I actually think it's helpful for monogamy too, because it helps us detach from outcomes that aren't based on ourselves. We can't control what other people do (though we can make requests and have boundaries!).

In your case, the requests you want to make are to protect you from your own triggers. Your partner should recognize this and act accordingly. At the same time, you should be prepared for slips. Avoiding bringing home hairs from another person is pretty difficult. He can try! No doubt. But perfection is unlikely, and the effort should probably be your focus more than the results. Good luck to you on this. I'm sorry it's so hard.
 
I recently got out of a 3 year r'ship, he was poly, I am mongam-ish at best. We negotiated, argued, bent our own wills to try to meet in the middle. Didn't work. I did jealousy workbooks, poly-friendly therapy, etc.. He agreed to follow rules he'd later recant. Once, we argued for 17 hours straight. Deep down inside, I just didn't want poly, and was trying to make myself want it, or convince him he didn't really want it.

Truth is, when I'm really into someone, no one else will do. And I have no desire to share, to lose out on time, energy, sex, while my partner toggles mutiple partners. Same as I wouldn't date a workaholic or a single parent with small kids or someone who traveled extensively for work, his poly-ness was just unwanted baggage to me. I desire a partner who is in MY bed every night (unless there's a darn good reason.) If there's a romantic vacation to be had, I want them to take it with me, not someone else.

It took me decades to figure this out about myself, because intellectually, I "get" poly. I understand that love is infinite and human emotions and sexuality is complicated. I even thought I was poly in younger days, when the truth was, I was just experimenting, or wasn't fulfilled in the particular r'ship I was in when I decided to take on another lover. Or, I was just doing poly because my partners wanted it and I wanted those partners. It sucked.

Things came to a head after I had come home from a weekend with a fwb, who, the whole time I was with him, I really just wanted to be home with my partner. I couldn't wait to get home to my "primary," only to find him super-stoked to go off with his secondary girlfriend. The contrast between our two feelings hit me so hard, I fell apart, weeping and begging him to stop. He broke up with me and I left that night. Truth was, I'd been in great distress a while. I lost significant weight, my self esteem was basement level. I was anxious all the time. We should've ended things long before we did.

My advice? Get clear on what you really want in a relationship. If you don't want to date others, don't date others. If you don't want to be with someone who is with multiple partners, don't. Breaking up sucks, but so does watching your mental health slowly erode because you're in a situation you don't want to be in. Trust me, you will not be able to force yourself to do this if your heart isn't in it. Best of luck.
 
LoveBunny is giving some excellent advice here. We can't change other people on core matters. We all bend a bit for our partners, but we can't twist into pretzels. It just won't work.

LB, sorry that happened. Three years is a long time, with a lot of emotional investment. Also sounds like you went through some deep stress towards the end. I'm glad you have clarity now, though, and it sounds like you will both be in a better place.

Letting go of relationships can be hard, especially when we love the other person. But people grow and change, and in other cases they don't. Either way, there can be a point where incompatibility overrides love, and we have to let it go. Sad, but healthy.
 
Hi Goddessvibes,

It sounds like you are really struggling with this. Like each little part, no matter how small, throws you into a tailspin. You need him to exercise utmost caution in seeing that you never have to notice evidence of her place in his life. For his part, he is taking your swinging experience with her, and turning that into an excuse of why he should be able to be with her.

Hopefully you can see a psychologist for this, I think that will help. It might help if you could adopt the philosophy that your husband can love another woman, and still love you just as much. Have you ever read the book, "Sex at Dawn?" It helps explain how and why humans have promiscuous tendencies. You might want to pick up a copy.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
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