open relationship issues wife keeps not sticking to rules

caifan

New member
[edited by mod for an attempt at clarity]

Hi friends,

Me and my wife - she asked to have fun only since March of this year. We have been together for 25 years am 45, shes 41. So I set some ground rules. I told her, "you need to tell me anything. Anything that happens to you sexually or even just texting, I want to know it ALL no excuses!"

I was clear she has not been with anyone yet...but she likes this guy that is 25 years of age...according to her guy looks like a nerd! Looks innocent so she told me her fantasies with him that she wants to take control in bed and that she can't wait to see how desperate he is with her in bed.

So while talking to her she's like, "are you sure you want to know it all cause I don't want hurt you!"

That's stupid so words can hurt [more] than her actions? She's stupid I swear, I clarify.

So I put a recorded device in her car and when she's at work she chats with a female friend so I was able to record the whole thing, nf this is the actual words I heard. Remember she has not had anything yet not even have gone out with him. So starts like this...

THE FRIEND ARE YOU OVER IT ARE YOU OVER IT ? HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN ?
WIFE APRIL
THE FRIEND OH IT WAS RECENT THEN
WIFE, I DONT THINK I AM GOING TO GET OVER IT
FRIEND YES YOU ARE, YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO LET HIM GO
WIFE ITS GOING TO BE HARD
FRIEND JUST FIND ANOTHER PENIS THAT ITS GOOD
WIFE I DON'T KNOW HE CHANGED MY LIFE
FRIEND IN A GOOD WAY OR BAD WAY?
WIFE BOTH
FRIEND BESIDES HIS PENIS WHAT ELSE WAS IT THAT YOU LIKE ABOUT HIM?

THAT WAS THE WHOLE THING I COULD HEAR..TO ME IT SOUNDS LIKE SHE DID SOMETHING, RIGHT ??? I CONFRONT HER ... she says nothing happened, that she's meant all of that in a crush type of way and she sticks to the story...she never told me this! Never. If it wasn't for this recording I would never found out...is this a bad start?? Friends, what do you think about her, is she having feelings???? Already without even going out yet its a weird conversation.
 
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GalaGirl

Well-known member
What model are you and wife practicing? Open to sex fun only? This is a polyamory board.

so i set some ground rules ,,i told her you needed to tell me anything Anything that happens to you sexually or even just texting . i want to know it ALL no Excuses !

Not a reasonable or rational agreement. Red flag.

But it sounds like she said ok, just to get to explore. Not because she meant it. Red flag.

so i put a recorded deviced in her car

This is snooping. Red flag.

And through this snooping on wife and her friend, you discovered wife has possibly had an affair that she later ended. Not sure if it is the "nerd" or some other person. Red flag.

You ask wife about all that. She denies it. Red flag.

I think if wife wants polyamory -- open to sharing both romance and sex?

And you only are willing to do open to casual sex, no romance or feelings? (But not really, you rather it stayed monogamous?)

Both of you could stop doing all of these poor behaviors. Talk it out. And if it turns out you want monogamy and she wants polyamory you could part ways.

This business of you offering a very rigid sort of "open" and her just going along with just to get to to do anything... neither is being super honest with the other one.

I could be wrong in these impressions.

Galagirl
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Hello caifan,

Wow, your wife really has a thing for this 25-year-old guy, I think she has already had physical involvement with him but she doesn't want to admit that, she probably has feelings for him too but there's nothing you can do about that if she won't tell you the truth. Maybe spy on her some more (recorded devices) but she is likely to get wise to that and discover the devices, so then you will be right back where you started, unable to get the truth from her. I think you need to have a talk with her, and ask her why she is not sticking to the rules, and don't let her use "the words will hurt you" as an excuse. Good luck!

Regards,
Kevin T.
 

Evie

Kaitiaki
Staff member
Too much information is likely to be detrimental to your own wellbeing. Ask yourself why you're asking for all the details. Are you treating her like you would a teenaged daughter dating her first boyfriend? Snooping on her conversations and being afraid of letting go of the control you've had over her for in your case 25 years of monogamous relationship. Why have you agreed to this when it's clearly upsetting you and forcing you to try to control the situation?

Polyamory is about letting go; of monogamous norms, of the ownership model of relationships, of control of your spouse (and shifting your control to being over your actions, not hers), of deeply ingrained beliefs about what a relationship "should" be and allowing it to evolve to something far more malleable.

Newly opening up polyamory (pf formerly monogamous relationships) when done well is largely about creating an environment such that your partner and you can become once again autonomous, self-determining persons who can following their hearts, hormones and emotions as far as they choose, in a way that still creates room for partnership and intimacy in the existing relationship that has shifted from mono to poly.

You honestly don't sound anywhere near ready to approach a healthy polyamory model. Why did you agree to this? What's in it for you? How committed are you to developing a relaxed, poly relationship model? Or are you just waiting for your wife to fuck up just enough that you can proclaim that her foray into an open relationship model is over and you will not consider it ever again?

Because you're probably right that she is more involved with this other person than she's told you. But that will likely be because she doesn't feel SAFE sharing her feelings with you. How has your marriage become an unsafe space? I'm pretty sure you found safety in each other 25 years ago.

Polyamory is HARD. It is not just opening up your relationship (a rather clinical phrase that doesn't actually reflect the work needed to become successfully poly after being mono for so long) but it's opening up your vulnerabilities, learning to trust each other in a new way, and honestly being prepared to let go of all the expectations you've had of the relationship for the past 25 years as you deconstruct your understanding of monogamy.

Your relationship model fundamentally is in the process of breaking in order to rebuild another model if you choose to follow through with the process. Snooping on her private conversations with her friend is not the best way to move into a successful ethical non-monogamous relationship model. I highly recommend that you guys look into some kind of couple's therapy to smooth the transition because of this treacherous start.

There's a lot that could be read into her conversation with her friend, but more importantly than anything you or we could read between the lines is that she and you are clearly needing to develop communication skills about what she wants in order to be a fulfilled person and what you want to feel secure in your marriage and possibly explore extra marital relationships yourself. If an open relationship model "for fun" was offering her a chance to explore something new (or previously suppressed) about herself, then ask yourself why you aren't joyously celebrating with her that she's discovering something new (...you did want to know details after all, why is that?)

If you are snooping because you want a vicarious experience of her dalliance, then be honest with her that hearing about her ordering this young nerd around in bed would turn you on. Now truly is the time for absolute raw honesty, and if you share your truth with her she may just trust you enough again to share her truth with you.
 
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SarahD

New member
I have quite a few thoughts here. But I’ll focus on the conversation secretly recorded conversation only at this point. (Not even the part about how unethical, possibly illegal, detrimental and absolutely hurtful that is)

Many many emotional even sexual relationships happen virtually. Freon reading the transcript, nothing in it indicates to me that anything physical happened.

That’s how the women I know talk.

Woman #1. .. omg he makes makes me feel so good! The stuff he says, how he talks to me. I want that dick in me.

Woman #2…. Ok, horney is horney, other then wanting his dick in you, what else is it you like about him?

I would highly recommend that you put that whole obsessive controlling and dangerous recording incident out of you find and take a deep dive into YOU and your thoughts and feelings about your wife and relationship. I truly don’t thing you are in the correct headspace or emotionally secure enough to be in an open relationship of any sort at this point in time.
 

Hanky

Member
It sounds to me like they had sex and he probably rocked her world but for some external reasons she can’t continue with him.

Why else would the friend say “Just find another penis that good”

Key words being “another”. Which indicates there was an initial encounter with a “good penis”

It sounds to me like he “changed her world” with his penis. Which might just be a way of saying the sex had unprecedented qualities. For her to call out the penis specifically instead of referring to sex in broader terms probably indicates something special or rare about the man’s penis specifically.

You should NOT have confronted her until you had more information. She won’t be having any more private conversations in her car now that you outed yourself. You laid your cards down too soon making it harder to get to the truth. You need to learn some self control. Had you continued silently collecting information you might have had certainty by now…
 

mountaingirl

Active member
perhaps she's not telling you the truth, but honestly if you're out here recording her convos anyway then what's the point. seems you have your answer. she has feelings for and possibly fucked another person around the time yall opened the relationship. perhaps she didn't feel comfy sharing as much as you wanted. it's up to you whether you believe her... but if you're recording her then it seems trust is already broken.
that agreement of sharing everything may not have worked for both of you and a conversation should be had about how to move forward.

Regardless, it seems the relations between her and this man are over anyway.

and
You should NOT have confronted her until you had more information. She won’t be having any more private conversations in her car now that you outed yourself. You laid your cards down too soon making it harder to get to the truth. You need to learn some self control. Had you continued silently collecting information you might have had certainty by now…
what kind of detective ass bullshit is this ? they've been married 25 years, and even in a new relationship surveillance is not appropriate imo
 

mesamil

New member
Whether she was being deceitful with you or not, the recording stuff is not healthy behavior. Seems to me like she is actually not comfortable with sharing every detail of her personal sex life with other people with you, because that's pretty much what she said. Just because you asked for it, doesn't mean she has to give it to you...so instead of holding her to a rule that she hasn't voluntarily agreed to, you should actually listen to what she said (she doesn't want to share) and then decide whether that is a dealbreaker for you or if there's a better compromise.

Look, if you had this agreement that you were both totally on board with (not reluctant and uncomfortable with) AND you were acting supportive and just wanted this disclosure in return, AND then you found out that she was lying ANY other way that didn't include potentially illegal, nonconsensual surveillance....then I'd be like, "yea that was messed up and selfish of her to do".

However... your behavior with the recording is giving me some clues that maybe you are mistrusting, controlling, not OK with her being with other people really at all, and generally trying to catch her in a lie while disrespecting and violating her right to privacy... it's no wonder she doesn't feel comfortable talking to you about it. It seems like you've kind of consented to poly, but are still trying to catch her cheating. Fact is, when you first go that way after being monogomous, you have to work out the kinks. instead of being like "you terrible person you betrayed me!" it should be more like "Ouch! that hurts, can we come up with a different way of doing it next time!?" In order to have a relationship more like the later, you have to really trust each other, be transparent, and hardest of all: assume best intent! If you really want to go down this path with your wife, it's going to be a learning experience with lot's of challenges.

Being the person that someone chooses to do this with and share their secret world with is an honor. just because you put a ring on it 25 years ago doesn't mean you are entitled to her inner world. If you genuinely do want to share in this with her, vicariously or otherwise, you need to figure out 1) do you even want this, and 2) if you do, how to be more secure so that she WANTS to share these things with you.

I would also encourage you to consider the other people who may be potentially involved in the future. Would your wife's other partners know about your agreement? Do they know that everything they do is going to be shared in detail with a person they don't even know? I think they should be given an opportunity to consent to that...
 
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Northerner

New member
"...So I set some ground rules." My first reaction is that ground rules need to be mutually agreed upon.
 
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