Opening Up, Need Support

smashthecrash said:
We agreed going back to a single relationship is the healthiest thing, because it's causing too much stress for both of us.
Click to expand...
I have read all the posts thus far and I really don't see that polyamory nor her being involved with someone else as being the cause of stress for you both. To me, it seems clear that you are the cause of stress. You mentioned overthinking at one point - um, yeah! Reading this whole thread is like having a view into someone (you) just getting totally wrapped up in "mental masturbation," as I call it. And that's not masturbation in a good way. It's exhausting just to read it all, I can't imagine being on the receiving end of it! It's going over and over and over and around and under the issues you see (which may not even be issues, actually) until you're both sick of it.

I gotta tell ya, though -- it's a very effective, though passive aggressive, way to keep her other relationship(s) from ever blossoming.
 
Galagirl! Thank you so much for the comprehensive reply.

I'm doing a lot better today, but I'll keep that consideration of the blog area. Thanks for letting me know about it. I've started journaling and making new friends to help find some catharsis. I've also put more energy into working with my higher power.

Thank you for your support. The struggle is getting better - it was at it's worst when I made this thread, but everyone's replies have been helpful along along with the things I have been doing in real life.

It's kind of like a rubberband, or rollercoaster.

What you said about polynewbie and LDR, I realized that I'd been focusing on perhaps too much the most acute complication - polynewbie - while not considering enough the LDR. I recall now that the night S and T first kissed, I sent S a message that just said "nre and ldr" as reminders for her and I to talk about when we saw each other the next day.

We didn't talk much, if at all, about the LDR. That was our focus today. I'm seeing now that our LDR has no expiration date. S's current plans are to move back in with her mom, and continue the relationship as an LDR indefinitely. Which has got me thinking that perhaps I've been in this "save the relationship mode" because I had been neglecting MY life for awhile, accepting the loneliness that comes with moving to a new place and waiting until S and I were geographically close again. Just in the last week, I've made great successes in rebuilding my own social life.

That out of the way, let me try and address your reply.

What do I want? I want reassurance that my relationship with S is worth continuing as an LDR. I want my relationship with S to not cause me such intense "down" periods, but the "up" periods are certainly pretty awesome. When I say pain I've been through before, that extends well beyond romantic relationships - what I have come to believe is "no pain, no gain" and that the most painful experiences at least helped me develop as a person.

I'm so glad you asked for percentages! I actually made a little timeline earlier today with numbers given to specific periods in time to measure my level of satisfaction in the relationship from 1-100. What I can say, is that for the MAJORITY of my relationship with S, I have been about 85% pleasure and 15% pain. Right now, that number has fluctuated as much as 30% pleasure and 70% pain. However, because the pain/pleasure ratios are not currently stable, I want to wait until they stabilize. For example, the first day after she kissed T, when I saw her I would say those numbers were more like 95% pleasure and 5% pain. I find it very exciting that my girlfriend is desired by another man, and also that she is willing to try an actual open relationship rather than just tolerate me dating someone new. I would actually consider some challenges her and I faced in the past to be more difficult than this one (read: more threatening to the well being of the relationship members) but we were not in LDR at the time.

MY BEHAVIORS
1) Yep, definitely a good measure.
2) Also a very good measure.
3) This is definitely an oversight. But it's also part of polynewbie. We have only the two "dealbreakers" I mentioned in previous topics. When she actually started her thing with T, I became aware for the first time what my own "dealbreakers" are. Since then, I have told her that I felt imposing new boundaries on her relationship with him was not fair because they were not set beforehand, and felt like me trying to control her. I did say "should one of us find other new partners in the future, they HAVE to meet our other partners before actual intercourse". We agreed on this, and has said many times anyway that she won't be able to have sex with T until this condition was met - for her sake.

4) As for staying or leaving, right now I'm kind of just journaling and mentally preparing myself to break up with her. The pain/struggle seems to be getting better every day. She's starting to notice his flaws, spending less time with him, and spending more time with her friends. Things seem to be leveling out. Even when she's with him now, that fact alone is causing less anxiety - it was the disrupted communication which coupled with it that caused these issues for me.

Conclusion

Yeah I'm pretty messed up right now. But I'm also seeing how this new dynamic has helped me look at myself in a different way. I'm learning what my boundaries are, what my relationship needs are, and most important how I manage my needs with my loved ones.

Gala, about 6 months before I met S, I was involved in very unhealthy relationship with a women I was extremely infatuated with. I was seeking counsel on other online forums. Wise words said to me that I now live by is "if something causes you more pain than pleasure, it may be time to let it go". Those words still resonate with me now, when talking about my relationship with S. Despite this intense pain in the last several days, the pleasure has been equally intense. Careful evaluation of how the pain/pleasure dynamic stabilizes over the next few weeks should prove to be of good insight for what my best course of action is.
 
4) As for staying or leaving, right now I'm kind of just journaling and mentally preparing myself to break up with her. The pain/struggle seems to be getting better every day.
Click to expand...

So the goal is not LDR but you breaking up with her then? How are you supposed to hit a moving target? :confused:

You sound enmeshed.

Since then, I have told her that I felt imposing new boundaries on her relationship with him was not fair because they were not set beforehand, and felt like me trying to control her.
Click to expand...

You seem to think personal boundaries are for her to follow. They are not. YOU set your boundaries for YOU to follow for what you will and will not put up with. If the person crosses the line, YOU do action X. Not them.

Ex:

  • If you keep calling here at all hours of the night, I am going to ignore it and let the machine get it.
  • If you keep strewing your things all over the floor creating a tripping hazard in my home, I will stop inviting you over.
  • If you borrow my stuff and return it all messed up, I will stop lending.

If you need more info about boundaries with examples of actions YOU do when boundaries are crossed, I suggest

http://www.ehcounseling.com/materials/establishing_healthy_boundaries.pdf
http://www.ipfw.edu/affiliates/assistance/selfhelp/relationship-settingboundaries.html
http://ezinearticles.com/?Setting-Boundaries-in-Relationships&id=212273

There are other articles about boundary setting you could find by googling "setting boundaries" in the search.

You cannot control other people. You CAN control how much their behavior can ding you by changing how close YOU allow YOURSELF to them and their behaviors.

You might consider seeing a counselor to help you sort/stop this ruminating stuff / learn to set healthy boundaries.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
nycindie - totally agree. I'm getting better at this overthinking thing, though it's slow and probably not obvious from my posts. You're right though - its not really the polything that's the root of the problem, it's me. I've been making passive/aggressive attempts to make this relationship my ideal one through controlling her, and its not healthy. Granted it's not THAT much before this poly thing, but that's what it brought it to my awareness.

Right now, I'd say the REAL issue comes down to now that my girlfriend has something going on her life she is not 100% comfortable sharing with me. That's something new to our relationship. I would like to think that between my talks with her, and the responses I've gotten to my thread here, have helped me realize THAT IS OKAY.

Small update - S and I had a short conversation this morning about sharing things. She's been telling me that she, as someone who has never experienced non-monogamy, has been feeling guilty about sexual activities with another man. This guilt gets worse as they progress further, and I am trying to ensure that I am not CAUSING that guilt. I'm not 100% successful, but I'm trying. When I asked her how her relationship was going, she said "this seems to be mostly physical to be honest". That's pretty much in line with everything she's said so far. I remember from even when I met her there's a certain line for her, as someone who identifies as demisexual, where sexual acts like kissing are comfortable with her based on purely physical attraction. As things start moving below the best, her needs for trust and emotional connection increase at a much greater rate than your typical hetero young female.

One thing I DO have to consider is that last night I sent her a flirty/dirty text before bed "don't forget to brush your teeth before bed ;)" (inside joke, from when he slept in her bed right after I had outercourse with her) and she said "ok.. lol yes I'm staying at his place but we're not doing anything tonight because of mother nature :p" then I thought "huh? I wasn't getting at that but okay". This morning she said she had a confession, that she lied about 'mother nature' last night and that her cycle hadn't actually started yet. She told T that so he wouldn't push things sexually, and I guessed that 1) she didn't want him to see her texts and realize she was lying to him and 2) she thinks that I will feel more secure if I know that hard limit exists. I do get that for a young woman to be able to say "nope, can't do it, time of the month" is much easier than explaining why she's not okay with it. And I definitely believe she's uncomfortable with things progressing where genitals are concerned. What we talked about there is that I don't want her to feel like #2 is a problem, but the fact remains that she was dishonest about it at the time.

Galagirl - thank you for the clarification about boundaries. I didn't actually think about them that way. When I said "mentally preparing to break up with her" I meant that I'd preparing myself emotionally, and verbally, to how I'm going to BEST handle that conversation if it needs to happen, and start accepting it may need to happen. I don't plan on breaking up with her right now.

On the counselor thing - I'm actually in counseling right now. My last session with him, Friday the 28th, we spent almost all of the time just getting the story of my relationship out there. It was only my third session or so with him. I definitely know that ruminating/boundaries/control are issues for me, and I'm hoping to address them in therapy.

Believe me, I used to be way worse with control.

On boundaries, so let me check - are these good examples?

1. If you have unprotected sex with another person, I will not have unprotected sex with you until you are both tested.

2. If you are behaving strangely towards me, I am going to point it out immediately.

I agree with you 100%. That's something I've been preaching since I learned it not only in my undergrad, but as a client in therapy. But logic kinda flies out the window when you're under emotional distress, and I think some people (like me) their instinct is to control the stimulus - when it is the response that you can actually control.
 
Glad you are seeing a counselor. She might want one herself instead of processing her guilt by still oversharing the play-by-play with you about her stuff with T.

I'd say the REAL issue comes down to now that my girlfriend has something going on her life she is not 100% comfortable sharing with me. That's something new to our relationship. I would like to think that between my talks with her, and the responses I've gotten to my thread here, have helped me realize THAT IS OKAY.
Click to expand...

I agree. I also think you guys are too enmeshed sounding. Maybe even codependent sounding. Could process your stuff with your own counselors instead of overloading each other with every detail nearly daily.

Serious lack of personal boundaries here with info management.

I think it is ok for you to ask "How's it going with T?" and her to keep it light with "Thanks for asking. It's going ok enough."

I do NOT think it is ok to get all down into nitty gritty details like her lying to him about having her period when really she doesn't want sex yet. Why on earth do you want to hear that? Why does she want to tell you that? TMI!

Her stuff about sex with T is (her and T) stuff.

To me it seems like one of these:

  • you want her to overshare things and she does not tell you no (you crossing a line and she doesn't have personal boundaries)
  • she wants to overshare things with you and you do not tell her no (her crossing a line and you do not have personal boundaries)
  • or both like to overshare (both lack personal boundaries)

1. If you have unprotected sex with another person, I will not have unprotected sex with you until you both test clean. (<--Though I think it is better to just not have unprotected sex, period)

2. If you are behaving strangely towards me, I am going to point it out immediately.
Click to expand...

Yes. Those state a boundary with an action YOU can do as a consequence.


I agree with you 100%. That's something I've been preaching since I learned it not only in my undergrad, but as a client in therapy. But logic kinda flies out the window when you're under emotional distress, and I think some people (like me) their instinct is to control the stimulus - when it is the response that you can actually control.
Click to expand...

Sounds like another boundary opportunity.

"I am under emotional duress. I cannot give you an answer right now. I need a time out to think. If you insist you need an answer right this minute? Then I have to tell you NO."​

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
Geez, you really need to just let her have a relationship with someone else without all the intruding and asking for reports back, and so on. If one lover told me to brush my teeth before seeing another lover, it would piss me off, even if it was a joke. That's just weird. Each relationship needs its own space to develop - you've had yours with her, now give her space to have it with someone else. It's like you want to get tangled up in his business. Autonomy and independence are two very important elements in intimate relationships.
 
Hi smashthecrash,

I have been following your thread from the beginning, just haven't posted til now because the others were already giving the advice that I thought needed to be given. You're in good hands.

And I don't really have any advice for you now either, just a comment and an observation. S isn't ready to go "all the way" with T but she doesn't want to tell him that, so she tells him it's that time of the month. Which is a fib and that constitutes its own problem, but I think the bigger problem is her reluctance to just tell it to T like it is. I don't know, heck, maybe she could even say, "T, I need to tell you that I am rather demisexual, and need more of an emotional bond before the two of us go any further physically." I don't know, she can say it however she wants, but the point is, I think she should have a sit-down with him and let him know where matters stand.

But ... that would be advice for her, not for you, and unless she's reading this thread, I suppose it's idle chatter on my part.

You guys wanted you and T to meet up, didn't you? and that hasn't happened yet? I can't remember. Didn't S say that T meeting you was one of the things (the emotional things) she wanted in her relationship with T? Is T willing to meet with you?

What does S need from T to feel that extra emotional connection to him that she apparently does not now feel? I don't mean for you to ask her, I am just idly chattering about questions that have occurred to me.

Will your relationship with S always be long-distance? Do you think you'll (eventually) move to live closer to her, even if she doesn't move to live closer to you?

Well that's all I can think of for now ... Carry on.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Content.

Stayed with her last Thursday night. Lots of talking, little sleep, no sex. Almost broke up. She wanted to take the next week's spring break to sort out some things. We agreed to have no breakup talks / letters in the meantime, until we saw each other again.

I met T Friday afternoon - we seemed to get along fine, wasn't much evidence of competition or "alpha male" crap. He seemed like a decent guy.

S was really stressed out afterward. As I was helping her pack and get ready to leave, she said "this is the hardest thing I've ever done".

We didn't get into anything in depth via text message until last night. She told me she was feeling physically ill, and her gut told her to end it with T. That it was only lust, he wasn't what she was looking for in a relationship, and that she felt extreme guilt not just towards me but also about T for "leading him on". She said she didn't want to end it by text, and said she was going to see if he had skype. I didn't hear from her for a couple hours, and then she sent me her usual good night text.

Analysis

That good night text, and her texts since then remind me of how S was before this all started. In a good way. I'm feeling better about things, but I won't know what's up for sure until her and I talk (phone/skype) again. S had to work at 9am today, so there really wasn't the time or energy to get into it yet.

Things seem to be looking up. For now. S isn't very good at hiding when something's wrong, and it seems like she found some peace last night.

There is still a rift between S and I. It will take some time to heal.

S pursued a relationship with T for many reasons, but of all of them, I do believe that she did it for me.

I'm hoping the worst of the storm has passed. My gut has been telling me for awhile now that S had to end one of her relationships. "I can't handle both relationships" and "I need to end things with T" were things she had told me consistently over the last two weeks. That being said, the future is still uncertain.

Thank you everyone for your posts thus far. This sort of support was what I was looking for, and I'm glad I got to see what everyone's perspective was. I know you can only communicate so much on an internet forum, but it's still meaningful.
 
Perhaps poly isn't S's cup of tea? Is it your cup of tea? Would S object to you having an additional partner?

In any case, it sounds like S is starting to feel better about things, and that's a good sign.
 
Well, I just got off skype with S. We talked about a different definition of poly vs open relationships. For her, poly meant her partners had to be strong sexually and emotionally. She said that her rship with T is almost completely sexual - that he doesn't have relationship qualities she's looking for, but she's definitely attracted. She said the guilt was feeling like T wants a real relationship (this appears to be true from my perspective) but she doesn't, hence the deception.

She didn't actually have any talk with him last night. She did share the aforementioned feelings, and said that her feelings of being physically ill last night were also due to food poisoning. Basically, she's still flip flopping, which is kind of what I expected. Her current plan was to confront T and find out where he sees their relationship going. When I asked her how she was planning to approach it, she said "Well, I'm going to tell him that I don't see myself being in a real relationship with him, and it's mostly just physical, and then ask how he feels about it" with the basis of if he wants a real relationship, then she would dip out. I'm glad I asked her, because I bet anyone reading this can see the flaw. Any halfway intelligent, horny 19 year old is gonna tell the girl what she wants to hear. We discussed this, and even role played it a bit so that she would be better prepared. She had made a similar 'error' in communicating once before with him, where she asked him "Hey would you like to come to my friend's dinner party? Smash is going to be there". I had advised her to just ask the first question, see what his reaction is based on that alone, THEN provide context. She seems to understand that now, asking him how he felt originally was more like "if you want to continue fooling around, just agree that this is only sexual for you too" instead of actually finding out his REAL intentions.

In fact, I think it was Mags awhile back that mentioned about what to do if someone was going "cowboy" or "cowgirl" on their partner, and setting them straight. I know I'm prepared to do that (with tact) but due to experience and NRE, I don't really trust S to do it.

I mean, I wouldn't try to play such an active role in their relationship if this wasn't such a new thing, and maybe she deserves the opportunity to be lied to... but as her friend I'm still going to give my opinion anyway. I admit that I do hope that she ends things with him, even just temporarily, simply because of the juggling act stress that has been put on her and I. I'm sure T isn't losing any sleep over this "V" relationship.

That being said, I know it's mostly me. I am the primary cause of stress in my relationship. Aside from my first few days of freakout, I think I have been exercising greater control over my actions and reactions. That being said, my desire to put more energy in traveling to see her is not simply about my relationship with her. I explained to her (and a lot of my other long distance friends / family) that I want to use my additional resources (time, money) to spend more time trying to visit and see them. Just last friday I drove two hours away to see a once close friend who had moved away. S seems to understand that the new normal is me wanting to spend less time moping alone in my apartment, and more time seeing my loved ones.

That being said, hearing her repeat that her relationship with him is just physical, does make me optimistic as well. It's not as EASY as just breaking up (either I with her, or she with him) but it does lead for some potential. This is the first time in S's life she has really challenged her demisexuality - having a relationship based mainly on convenience or physical attraction. I've had plenty of rships like that. And if T is good with that, then I will be less concerned that he is trying to "go cowboy" and make S choose between the two of us. He won't win in that situation.

However, if SHE is willing to continue trying this with both of us, I did offer her a step-by-step plan for the three of us to "acknowledge the relationship". Basically, a way for the three of us to sit down together, doing some (non sexual) activity, building comfort, and slowly talking about relationships and feelings (since he's so new to it all). If / when S was comfortable enough, she could try holding each of our hands. There were a few more steps, but that's basically enough for now, and all that she was okay with.

Normally I don't think this is so needed, but I'm trying to come up with ideas that work for polynewbie + LDR that don't involve making S choose. All three of us are exploring the concept of a "non-monogamous" relationship, and they are both very young. Actually recognizing that "yes, S is actually sexual with someone else, that's a real thing, and that's okay" COULD prove very beneficial for all of us. If S has questions about T's intentions ("does he want a monogamous relationship with me?") then I doubt he'd be okay with seeing her and I be sexual in any way (even kissing). I'll find out for myself if I can honestly share someone as important as S with another guy. And S will be able to find out if she can have two different sexual relationships at the same time. Basically, S is a old Nintendo game, and T and I have been passing the controller. If we can find a cooperative two player mode, then maybe we can succeed together where apart we could not. S states her ideal model of poly as having "teamwork and compromise, not a hierarchy" so I figure hey let's give that a shot.

So where could things go from here? Basically three paths.

Path 1 - I end the relationship with S. Pretty obvious what happens after this. Might be worth the sharp loss, for overall health in the long run. Gala has helped me consider this more. That being said, I honestly don't see this happening. S and I are getting to a better place every day. More importantly, this situation is getting easier for ME every day.

Path 2 - S ends the relationship with T. I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I'd like it, because then we can go back to just dealing with the LDR. On the other hand, it's not like T and S are going to stop being attracted to each other, and he's still seeing her every day. I've only suggested this to her as a temporary measure, because I don't think her permanently ending it with him is possible right now.

Path 3 - All relationships continue. Probably the most difficult path for S and I. Also, possibly the most rewarding. As I just said to S, I would "love to be at a point where I come to visit you, and he's hanging out with our group, and when he leaves you give him a big kiss and I just smile". I've always wanted a poly relationship where all parties are open and honest, and that also means (being okay with) displaying affection in front of each other. I've always hated the secrecy of "don't ask don't tell" open relationships, as I have little faith in those. They would definitely not work for people like S or me.

What makes this hardest for me is what trying to date multiple people seems to be doing to S. In turn, this directly affects my relationship with her. I don't like seeing her so conflicted, hurt, and guilty. I am starting to believe at this point that between how she and I view polyamory / nonmonogamy, it's time to try a bit of "integration". If you want to use terms, we're clearly in a "Vee" relationship, and this idea has the possibility of making her role as a hinge easier. T and I could use our mutual relationship with S to form an easier friendship with each other, and taking some of that pressure off S to do all the mediating of needs.
 
kdt, sorry I forgot to answer your other question. S would not object to me having another partner. I am currently becoming better friends with a few women right now that could be possible partners. I am not actively pursuing sex with any of them until this "Vee" with S and T comes to a healthier place. I told S about this intention and she agreed. It's just not the right time. She's never been opposed to me trying new partners, but she couldn't say for certain how she would react in the situation either.

I'm thinking that if S continues seeing both of us, I will become more aggressive in pursing a local relationship as well. I'm giving it a few weeks. I think that if and once S and T start having intercourse (remember, she's only had me as a sex partner, he's a virgin) then shit could really hit the proverbial fan.

I am seeing this rship between S and T as a "free liscense" to date, however. I had been reserved before, as it had always felt that my "monogamous girlfriend was tolerating an open relationship", which caused me to be overly reserved in the dating world for the last 6 months. Now, she's starting to understand the dating more than one person thing, so I'm not as worried about the impact of me seeing another person will have.
 
Last edited:
Okay, you want more stability in your existing unit (you, S, and T) before branching out. Seems like a sensible idea.
 
That being said, I'm still going to be myself in my relationships with other women. I will just be more cautious before making any overt sexual moves (like kissing), and that will probably be a couple weeks from now anyway.

As S seems to be understanding better now the separation of sex and emotions, I'm less afraid that me being sexual with another woman will be received as "he's replacing me".
 
Last edited:
That's good, right?
 
Yes, that's a good thing. It looks like S is able to see her relationships with each of us as their own entities, rather than following the "highlander" monogamy model.

Of course, that's just right now. Could change.

Kdt (and anyone else) do you think the idea of the three of us (me, S, and T) getting together and openly discussing intentions/feelings and showing affection could backfire? I think if nothing else, it will help some people figure things out one way or another. If it goes well, it could lead to an excellent (but likely only outercourse) MFM experience. Any advice on how to execute this sort of thing?
 
Well I don't know that you can really plan these kinds of things ahead of time. If you do make a plan, you may have to change it midstream, and be aware that no course of action is foolproof.

To be honest, I think S and T should both know your (whole) plan ahead of time. What you're planning sounds like it could potentially be a major turning point in your relationships with each other, and I feel like it would be objectifying someone (e.g. T) if you tried to smoothly maneuver them into position.

Are you thinking this could potentially be a sexual experience for the three of you? If you're all wanting casual sex I'd say maybe; if you're all wanting full-blown relationships with each other, then I would expect it to be a little early for anything sexual to happen, though I'm not saying it's impossible.

When developing emotionally-invested relationships, I tend to advise slow advancement and baby steps. People tend to be highly complex and it takes time to learn even part of everyone's unique array of traits and oddities.

So I guess my vote is for a low-key three-person sit-down, unless the three of you agree ahead of time that you're all open for the possibility of sexual interaction.
 
Intentions and Actions

Well here's what I understand each of us wants.

I obviously want a full blown relationship with S.

S wants a full relationship with me. She wants a more casual/sexual thing with T.

We have no idea what T really wants. S said she wants to end things with T if he wants a full blown relationship, because A) she doesn't want one with him and B) she is under the impression that he does want a full blown relationship with her. She is under this impression for a few reasons, she has told me these reasons, and I believe that T does want a full blown relationship with her based upon these reasons and my own observations (i.e. he has been referring to her as his "girlfriend" for awhile now, without ever discussing it with her, his cultural background, his experience with sexual relationships - remember he's a virgin, etc).

I feel like S's INTUITION has been telling her that T wants a full blown relationship. He has been AMBIGUOUS with what he says, but his ACTIONS are why she feels that way. I trust S's intuition.

Kdt - I am hoping that he does only want a sexual relationship. It would take a lot of stress off that possible "competition" aspect, and could also lead to a sexual experience for all three of us. I have absolutely no fear that T will be a more "satisfying" sexual partner for S, but more like "something different". That's what I would look for in additional sexual partners - something different. If I were looking for partners that were very similar to my "primary" relationship partner, then it would feel like I was just trying to replace her. I end my true relationships when I think "I would rather be alone than with this person" rather than waiting until something better comes along to jump ship.

Point 1 - My Idea of a Shared Sexual Experience / Integration / Acknowledgement

Let me get this completely on the table, as it is written down.

**********************
1. T and I meet in a group setting (DONE)
2. You, T and I spend time together with just the three of us (DONE - hallway of powell)
3. We do this in a more private location, such as a lounge or the ICU.
4. As the tension eases, we can talk more openly about how each of us are feeling about things.
5. Once there is enough comfort between all three of us, you can try holding each of our hands at the same time.
6. We can talk about how all three of us feel about displaying affection in front of each other.
7. Once and if you are comfortable, you can say you'd like to try more than just holding hands.
8. I will offer to T that he can show a stronger physical affection for you when he feels okay to. I will mention that he should only do what he is ready to see you and I do together as well. I will suggest that because this is so new, he take it slow, considering both yours and my feelings.
9. Before it goes beyond hand holding, we can all agree that if ANY of us aren't okay at any time, any of us can say "STOP" and all physical contact will cease temporarily or permanently.

************************************

The reasons for my idea are twofold. One, it could be an amazing sexual experience for all three of us - especially S. I would love to have a lifelong relationship with her where we can openly (and without jealousy) have threesomes or swing. I get equally excited about MFM threesomes as I do FFM, and even more so about MMFF. S and I have both been on board with the "same room" idea to branch out into open relationships, and I like it because I'm really into voyeurism. Part of me hopes that the three of us (or any other partner's S finds in the future while we are LDR) can get to a point where they are comfortable sharing their sexual details with me, even to the point of pictures or even watching them on live video. That's just my fetish. As such, I would hope that S's partners are open to that sort of thing. For the record, S does enjoy telling me about her sexual exploits with T. She's even told me her thoughts that compare things that her and I do sexually compared to what they do. Really, it all depends on T, who ORIGINALLY said "I don't want you to share our sexual details with Smash" - which was where my first seed of doubt came from.

Second, it will be a very good way to determine T's true intentions. I believe that if he wants a full blown relationship (as you put it) then he should be much more resisting of a shared sexual experience. I do believe that S only wants a sexual relationship with him RIGHT NOW, but still requires more emotional connection to have actual intercourse with him (demisexuality). It's damn complicated, I know. Basically, I see this idea as a win-win as long as it is approached in a "slow, baby steps" manner. T is an important part of S's life now, and I would like to be more involved her life, regardless of what his role is. And if S actually wants a more full blown relationship with T, then this could be a good way to explore those feelings as well.

S is in agreement with me that the idea is sound until about step 5. Once any physical affection is displayed, this idea can get infinitely more complicated. Currently, I'm letting T make the first moves. My concern with this is that he may escalate things with her quickly in front of me, then when it is my turn he say STOP. I feel if I am the one to escalate things first, then I am in more control over how slowly this should happen, and I think I will be more considerate (and knowledgable) about how S is handling it (her feelings are probably the most important).

Please point out any criticisms or make recommendations to this idea. Currently, S and I plan to show T this plan as it is currently written. I think it may be more prudent to show him only until step 5, then consider presenting the rest if that works out. Steps 1-4 are easy and should be more natural.


Point 2 - How does S determine how T truly feels about her?

Idea aside, my last real conversation with S ended with her saying she was going to ask him the following question:

"T, I want you to know that I only want a sexual relationship with you, I don't want a full blown one. What do you want?"

I shared my thoughts about this question, and how it was loaded, and she agrees. Instead, I asked her to form the question more like this:

"T, I'm not really sure where this is going. Where do you see our relationship going? Are you looking for a more casual and physical relationship, or would you prefer we be a more serious and romantic one? If you'd prefer serious, would you rather you and I be exclusive without Smash in the picture?"

The way I phrased the question, and what I emphasized to S, is that if she wants to see how T HONESTLY feels about their relationship, she should not describe what she wants FIRST.

S is coming to visit me this Wednesday (March 11). I plan on role playing this out a little bit more. S has a tendency to load questions, such as my other example about the dinner party "T, want to come to a dinner party this Saturday with me? Smash will be there". She knows her infatuation is going to make it hard to keep a clear head going into this conversation, and I want to help her prepare the best I can. I don't want her to have to go through T agreeing to a sexual relationship if he really doesn't want it, and I don't trust him to be completely honest. He seems like the type of guy that knows his way around women. Speaking from my own experience, I believe that as a hetero mono young male, you should let the woman discuss her intentions / feelings first so that you can mirror what she says (if you want to sleep with her / continue the relationship). If S's question comes off as "if you want to have sex with me (they haven't) then you must agree that this is a casual relationship". That's not going to make a lot of sense to young males who've never encountered a woman who only wants a casual relationship. I know that when I first encountered women who only wanted casual relationships, I was baffled - I had believe all my life that women who wanted to sleep with me also wanted to date me. I came to that realization only a few years ago, when I was about 27.


.
So what am I going to do? I am planning on trying out my idea. I have discussed and shared it with S, and she is willing as well. Kdt, I think you are right that we should show T the written plan (I typed it out, and S wrote it down as I told her).

Where I am not sure if I should do anything is get involved in S's conversation with T about their relationship. Part of me just doesn't want to see her get (more) hurt or have her feel like she's "using" T... the other part wants to let her explore this completely on her own to have a more honest experience. I am deeply concerned that if T continues his relationship with her dishonestly, then it will cause more problems in MY relationship with S. That is something am REALLY trying to avoid.
 
Yes, "highlander" meaning a belief that possessive love is the only way. "If she truly loves me, she won't desire another man in any way".

I hate possessive love. It's not for me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top