Opening Up, Need Support

. . . Any details she wants to share, sex or otherwise, are totally up to her now.
No, they are also up to T. She shouldn't share details he wouldn't want her sharing - that would be a breach of his privacy. Remember - it's his relationship, too, so he has a right to say how much information he is comfortable with her passing along to you. And you really don't have rights to knowing his business. So, while it's great that you won't press her for info (bravo!), any intimate details of her relationship with T. is truly between her and T. That is something important to keep in mind.
 
Last edited:
Re (from smashthecrash):
"Given what everyone knows so far, what do you think I should do here?
stay in my city, living life normally, not asking her to meet up?
visit friend in college town and leave before S and T come back from the airport?
leave to see my family that night, removing the possibility of meeting from the equation altogether?"

I guess leaving to see your family sounds like the best option, though you could consider asking S if she has a preference.

Sounds like things are going relatively well for the moment.
 
Nycindie, that's a good point. I should have been more explicit.

I like hearing nonsexual details about their relationship for these reasons-
-I learn more about S
-I learn more about her experience opening up
-I feel like I am more involved in her life

I like hearing sexual details because I have a fetish, and I like learning about new possible ways to please her sexually.

S likes SHARING nonsexual details for the same reasons I like hearing them.

S wants to be able to share sexual details because they are exciting to her.
S does NOT to share details because-
-T was not comfortable (initially? not sure on this now)
-she is worried that hearing them will upset me

Basically it comes down to S and I don't mind talking about her relationship with T - now, I'm letting her bring the subject up, and not pressing her for details too much. Maybe a question here and there for clarification, or to ask how shes feeling.

When her and I see each other, I can tell she enjoys talking about sexual things as well - it's like a big weight off her chest whenever she talks about it. She's even verbally compared me to him aloud, which I discouraged her from doing (telling me things I'm better at).

Really, I know the content of their relationship should not be understated, but what I'm starting to believe the real source of my "rumination", and stress for both myself and S, is the lack of congruence between what I, S and T all want in our relationships. S and I both have always employed an "honest to a fault" communication style, because we both came in with trust issues from alcoholic parents. That's what we both feel makes our relationship so strong. T comes from a different background, and from the get go did not share this value. From what S has told me over the last few weeks...

T's feelings on sharing details-
-he does not want to hear about me, or my relationship with S
-he doesn't really care if S tells me what they do together, not sexually
-he doesn't want to hear about her sexual relationship with me
-he does not want her to share details of their sexual relationship with me

When most of this first came out, and she was sharing details, I did say "didn't T not want you to tell me about that stuff?" and she said "I'm working that out with him, and it's my life, and you're my best friend, and I want to tell you. I don't want to keep things from you. That's something he's just going to have to deal with". Out of respect for him, she's not being TOO specific with details, but she definitely does not want to keep secrets. She DOES definitely want to feel like she CAN tell me, and WANTS to tell me when new physical "boundaries" are crossed. Now when S and I are together, occasionally she mentions things about him while we are being sexual. These never bother me in the moment - on the contrary, I've actually learned a couple new ways to turn her on.


ANYWAY. Details aside. Yes, long story short - what he wants is important too. That's why I'm leaving it up to her. I'll let her draw the line in the sand. Provided we stay together, we'll probably both share stories and laugh about it all eventually. Key word - eventually. Hearing too many details, you're right - it's not healthy for me right now. I'm listening, not pushing, and changing the topic if I'm not comfortable. If something sticks out as a concern for either of us, we'll talk it out like we always have.

Gala, that's pretty much in line with what I'm thinking. Right now, I'm totally leaving things up to her. It was only a week ago that our conversations were "okay S let me ask you 20 questions, then 20 more". Now, she's sharing things at a level that is comfortable for her (most sharing done in person), and I'm not indulging her too much either. I've been seeing the value of a DADT type thing, Gala, and I have been leaning more towards that. For example, my "i don't want to hear sex details via text". One step at a time.

I'm feeling a bit better every day. I think I'm starting to accept what's happening more, and the nature of these relationships. I will say, I took a lot of comfort in the quality of our relationship last night (sex, laughs, having fun together, intellectual discussion, etc) and her strong belief that says "hes more into me". That gives me confidence that she will have an easier time managing relationships, and also a very important guideline for my behavior -

Smash - don't be like T! Don't smother your girlfriend, you dink!

edt - last comment. I'll mention I'm planning on seeing my family. I expect her reaction will be one of "that's great, good for you! have fun!" so no worries. Either way, I'm already pretty sold on going.
 
I would just like to thank everyone again who has invested their personal time into helping me out. It means a lot to me. I've got a lot to spill out, and I know that this community has been invaluable in taking some pressure off my loved ones.

Short talks this evening with S - some texts and a phone call. Suggested that she buy condoms before Sunday, just in case, and that made total sense to her. She asked me to remind her again later. She asked me about my interview, and I told her about my plans for Saturday.

Things are okay. I'm kind of hoping that she's got this sex thing figured out before the next time I see her. I think that she will figure out things very quickly after that.

*Edit: Life lesson learned from this? Jealousy is a cruel, sick son of a you know what.
 
Last edited:
Sorry for triple post. Gala what you said about details has gotten me thinking. What we have is two types of details- nonsexual, and sexual. I don't want to ask omission of ALL details - I do want her to feel it's okay to discuss her life with me, after all, and I want that too. That stuff combined with the sex is probably too much. I still have until Saturday night to compose this, but I think this is what I want to ask her:

"S, I think that hearing all of the details so far has been enough. I asked you to tell me when new lines were crossed so that I might be able to better predict and anticipate how your relationship was going, and how close you were to actual intercourse. I know enough now. I am asking you to withhold all sexual details, no matter what, until we see each other in person again. If you feel a great need to tell me something, you can drive to see me earlier than our next planned visit. Talking about these things in person is by far the easiest for both of us it seems, and as far as safety is concerned it doesn't matter until we see each other again anyway."

I would prefer to know her plans with him after they happen, so that I don't ruminate or obsess. It's much easier for me to think "any night they could have sex" than "tonight, T is staying at her place, and they're probably going to have sex". I think I've been putting HER needs for disclosure above my own, and confusing them with my fetish for wanting sex details. From what you're saying, I think you're correct. I've always said 'the truth hurts, but uncertainty festers' but perhaps something is to be mentioned of 'ignorance is bliss'. I would like the security of not having to worry about recieving that text/phone call/etc at any time that could deliver such sensitive information. If we agree to not discuss these types of things until we are in person, then she can wait until we're both in a comfortable spot and PHYSICALLY together to discuss such sensitive things. I want to avoid a "don't ask don't tell" policy, and I firmly believe that S feels the same way. Our original plan of brutal honesty isn't working, probably because of the context of the LDR. If this means that S has to keep those details to herself until she sees me again, then so be it.

S and I are not at a level of trust yet where genuine polyamory could work. Both of us, especially her, as fascinated by the idea of a "poly family", but we're also seeing that it doesn't happen overnight. Regardless, we're definitely learning a lot about each other, our relationship, but most importantly - ourselves.
 
I would suggest

"For now we do not talk about T at all. AFTER my counseling appointment, we can talk about what the info boundary can be next"​

so you can keep the time before your next appointment calm and boring. It's only 2 weeks out. Soft limits can change over time -- they are not "No, never" like a hard limit. It also gives you a chance to run this new idea for a boundary by your counselor first.

Talk to your counselor about enmeshed relationships also.


My 2 cents,
Galagirl
 
Last edited:
So does that mean not even discussing things the next time we see each other? My counseling appointment is the 27th, and we plan to see each other again the weekend of the 21st.

Or, are you suggesting we don't visit each other until after my counseling appointment? Not sure how I feel about that.
 
I'm guessing it's "not even discussing 'things' the next time you see each other," where "things" = stuff about T.

But, I guess if T doesn't really care if S tells you what they do together (nonsexually), then S can share away. You're sure T doesn't mind, though, right?
 
Okay I definitely understand what you are suggesting except for one thing. My question was about my next planned visit with her, the 21st. I see my counselor the 27th. IF we see each other the 21st, are you saying that the healthiest thing is to not even talk about it then? Or, are you suggesting that any visits (to avoid the should we talk about it even in person situation) be postponed until after i see my counselor on the 27th?
 
Ahem; well, just to be clear, I'm only guessing at what GalaGirl meant. I'm thinking she meant go ahead and see S on the 21st, but don't talk (at all) about T during that visit. (I could be wrong.)

But I also see that your Post #63 says, "[T] doesn't really care if S tells me what they do together, not sexually." In which case I can say (for my own part) that I think it's fine for you and S to talk about nonsexual stuff about T.

My concern is T's privacy. But maybe some of the other posters here are concerned that you're obsessing too much about T, and that talking about T just makes you obsess more (which isn't healthy)? This isn't my opinion mind you, it's what might be the opinion of some of the other posters here.

Regardless of what this or that person's opinion is, ultimately you have to make your own choices, based on your own criteria. It doesn't bother me if you want to talk about T, so that's my opinion for what it's worth.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Just got off skype with her. I discussed my want for her to not share any details, whether it would be until the next time we see each other or after I see my counselor. She didn't like it at first. She wanted to be able to call me the day after and tell me what new lines had been crossed. She offered that if she had sex with T, or something else drastic (such as ending one of the relationships) that her plan was for us to arrange a visit, either at my place, hers, or halfway. We talked about why this boundary was important to me, and we settled on "not until we see each other in person". As a compromise, I offered her that in the case of sex / something drastic that SHE felt the need to talk about before the 21st, she could arrange to visit my place. I told her that my place is where I feel the safest, and I want that discussion to happen in a private, safe place.

When I told her that I might be sexual with another woman tonight, she insisted that I tell her tomorrow if something happened. I agreed to this.
 
Last edited:
Go ahead and visit on the 21st with the agreement that you will not talk about T stuff till after the counselor okays this new boundary of only talking about him in person.

If she can help keep the time calm/boring -- it should not be a problem visiting before appointment.

I think I've been putting HER needs for disclosure above my own, and confusing them with my fetish for wanting sex details.

If she will not or cannot exercise self control? If she is likely to overshare again and you risk get cranked up again? Then you could reschedule the visit for after that appointment so you are not getting cranked up before it.

You are there -- you know if your GF conversations are likely to crank you up or not. You know whether or not she can keep an agreement not to talk about T for 2 weeks so you can keep your time before your appointment calm.

If she cannot exercise self control to support you in your mental health work, you could not see her for 2 weeks and make it a non-issue.

You could put your mental health first.

ETA:

She didn't like it at first. She wanted to be able to call me the day after and tell me what new lines had been crossed

See? I think your GF is as enmeshed as you are. Talk to your counselor about enmeshment.

If I were you? Could not be having sex with other people right now. Just adds more stimulus.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the points about enmeshment. If I find the opportunity to re-engage S in couples counseling (we had two sessions about a year ago, went pretty well) then I will use that as a starting point. I've learned a bit about enmeshed families during my academic career, but not that much about relationships. I know you are seeing signs of enmeshment, and that may be unhealthy, but it's also the context of our relationship. Both S and I have trust issues! We both come from families with some very unhealthy dynamics. As you know, adults tend to recreate the relationships they experienced in their families of origin. It's experiences like these that help both S and I work through our issues with boundaries, communication, and enmeshment.

Unfortunately, it is not practical for S and I to do couples counseling. I will suggest enmeshment to my counselor next time I see him.

And I do not plan on having intercourse with anyone else right now. I know that intercourse with someone else is far too much considering the current stability of my relationship.
 
This is a treasure trove of a post. I heartily encourage you to really take this in. You'll never be able to analyze people and relationships into a good place. You have to step back, quiet down and allow. Really, a daily quiet walk will do so much more for you than all of this analysis. And it does wonders for anxiety, too.

Smash, I think the best things you can do for yourself would be to walk in nature (a park or wild place) and focus on your surroundings - the trees, the shapes of clouds, the sound of the wind blowing through branches, birds singing, people walking their dogs, an anthill, and so on. ANYTHING except this mental exercise you put yourself through worrying about your relationship, what it is, how she is, what her other relationship is becoming, should you this, that, and all these ruminations that have you in mental knots. Stop it! Whenever you start thinking about all these little details and what they mean, how you will proceed, and so on and so on, get back to the present moment and out of your head by paying attention to what is in front of you in This Moment of NOW. Stop trying to predict how your gf will feel or handle her emotions. You need to take care of you, not her relationship with anyone else.
 
Last edited:
Totally agreed, Angel. I live up in the frozen north of New England and last weekend was the first time in months we had temps above freezing.

I've been running a couple times since then, and it's done a lot of good for clearing my head. I could just take some peaceful walks too.
 
Totally agreed, Angel. I live up in the frozen north of New England and last weekend was the first time in months we had temps above freezing.

I've been running a couple times since then, and it's done a lot of good for clearing my head. I could just take some peaceful walks too.

\(^-^)/ \(^-^)/ \(^-^)/
 
Hello everyone. I know it's only been two days, but they were rather long ones.

Saturday, March 14
After my last post, I went for a run (no music). While running, I was rehearsing how a breakup speech might go with S. I also started imagining myself with other women. The more I thought about being with someone else, the more I started to feel... sick. I realized that I didn't want anyone else. I never had. I never "pulled the trigger" on my opportunities since opening up, and it finally made sense why. After the run, I went to see my parents, with whom I had been estranged from for over 8 months. Sharing my experience with them, and my "best friend" aunt, they helped me realize that I really loved S - in a monogamous way. They encouraged me to tell her how I felt, that night.

I skyped with S that night. I apologized for pushing us to open up, when back then she seemed perfectly content with an exclusive relationship. She acknowledged this, but protested it was her choice too. I told her how I felt - that I loved her, that I wanted her and only her, you get the idea. She told me that she knew I wasn't polyamorous when she met me, that it was my previous relationships (and trust issues) that had clouded my beliefs. She couldn't tell me then, because I had to figure it out for myself. We agreed to meet the next morning at a diner that was convenience for us both.

Sunday, March 15
We met at the diner. We both wanted to work it out. We spent some time just cuddling in the back of my car, talking about us. She was going to end with it T, because it "hadn't ever felt right". She was picking him up from the airport that morning, if you remember. She said she wasn't poly, she couldn't have sex with more than one person at a time, and she re-iterated her attraction to him came from feelings of longing for our non-distance relationship we once had.

When she got back to school, we skyped again. She said she didn't know if her and I were okay. She took one look at T and said she couldn't do it. She didn't know what she wanted, and said she felt like she was "settling" for me. She started having this feeling after a fight we had on new years eve, a night we had planned to spend together but had to cancel (I was sick, and she was stuck at home from the weather). I realized that this conversation would likely end with us breaking up, so I told her I was gathering her things and driving to see her to finish the conversation. She would gather my things as well.

I arrived and we went up to her room. While I was on my way, she had already ended things with T. I gave her the necklace back that I had just gotten fixed from her last visit, it was the first gift I had ever given her that broke a couple months ago. She had all of my things piled up except for the bracelet. This bracelet was the only piece of jewelry I wore when I met her. It commemorated a friend of mine that attempted suicide, and was my symbolic reminder of why I stayed sober. The day she and I had sex for the first time, when we first started dating, I put it on her wrist, and told her that I was trusting her with my heart. She has never taken it off aside for practical reasons for our entire relationship. While we were lying in bed together, I (out of nowhere) took the bracelet off her wrist and said "let's face reality. If this isn't going to work, you can't wear this anymore".

Immediately, S began sobbing uncontrollably. I held her. I had never seen her cry like this. After a minute, I couldn't take it anymore, and put the bracelet back on her wrist. "Please don't ever take it off again", she said. She kissed me deeply, and we had very intense and emotional sex. Afterward, she said "I can't do it. We have to make this work. I want to make it work." We agreed to take it one day at a time, and try to get couples counseling. S told me she has little faith in the college counseling center, and couldn't see how one or two sessions would really help. I said that it's at least worth one session, and that it couldn't hurt - to which she agreed. Ending things without real closure wouldn't solve anything, at least for me. She said that she knew once she graduated and moved back home, she would get very lonely and most likely want me back. I said I don't think I would be able to take her back then, because I would still feel like she was "settling" for me. We talked about attachment, enmeshment, where our lives were going, all kinds of things. We both have strong doubts about where our relationship was headed, and if it was right for either of us, but agreed that our year together in person was the happiest either of us had been in a romantic relationship.

We had a quick skype before bed, just to say goodnight. I offered the idea of us trying to have a quick "good night" skype before bed every night if possible. She said that sounds like it would be worth a try.

Monday, March 16
Things seemed okay this morning. At about 3pm, while I was at work, my counselor called me and said he could get me in early this Thursday, the 19th. I told S this, invited her to come with me, and she liked the idea, and Wednesday night / Thursday morning is the only time during the week her and I have a good opportunity to see each other. I'm still seeing my counselor next Friday regardless.

I think regardless of how this turns out, professional counseling is not going to hurt. With the logistics of LDRs though, actually seeing a regular counselor together is going to be near if not impossible. Does anyone have suggestions for how to do this?

What I do know is that if her and I break up, I want it to be for reasons that will cause us both the least pain and agony in the long run. I have this belief that if a one person in a relationship wants it to end, that desire to end it will grow and become firm. When they do set out to say "I want out of this relationship", their mind is made up, and no amount of bargaining or talking about it will change the outcome. That's been true for every romantic relationship I have had. This time with S was the first time that we both set out to end it, but neither could pull the trigger. Perhaps it's enmeshment, an unhealthy relationship - but I think a professional, neutral third party could help us ask the right questions to see if her and I are really meant to make this work or just holding on to something that never will.
 
Reading my post I realize that I guess this isn't really so much a polyamory issue anymore, but rather one for couples in long distance relationships. Gala, I know you were very emphatic about professional counseling, but I understand if this thread is no longer appropriate for this forum.

Thank you everyone for all of your responses, and for helping me through all of this. I knew that S and I would learn a lot about ourselves in this process, just never realized how much.
 
Smash, I am not a moderator. I do not decide what is and is not appropriate.

You guys tried to open and you found it was not for you.

I am glad you have an appt on the 19th. Talk to counselor about what is going on.

Galagirl
 
Smash, I'm a new poster. I created a log in because I'm concerned for your girlfriend.

I'm wary of relationships with large power dynamics. I think that they can be fine, but I think the person who has more power (age, gender, experience here with you) has more responsibility. I think it is your responsibility to model good relationship behavior here for your girlfriend. The campsite rule comes to mind. Leave a younger lover better off than when you found them.

You are not modeling good relationship behavior. You are treating your girlfriend very, very poorly. Up and then down, push and then pull. This is unhealthy behavior. It is unneedlessly dramatic, with jewelry and metaphores, and BIG MEANING. It seems you are going through that personally. But you are dragging her down with you.

Make a decision and sit with it. Don't call, don't negotiate, just be still. Please, please just leave her be.
 
Back
Top