Poly-Friendly Christians?

I will amend this last post by adding that the link to the UU site (for poly awareness) is now archived and that their original site is closed. However, they do have an active FB group at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/122615047774023/
 
Christianity is a patriarchal religion. In Genesis it is laid down that a woman shall NOT desire more than one "husband." This is meant to control women's sexuality, obviously, to preserve a patrilineal line. It's just put in Yahweh's mouth.

Later, in a pericope appended to the book of John, Jesus is made to forgive the woman who has had sex with multiple men.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.
That part of Christianity I call churchianity, people who usually get their spirituality from an inherited source and perspective and are culturally brainwashed into believing it as "normal."

In Genesis it also says Abraham had at least 3 paramori (at the request of Sarah, no less), and Jacob had 4 simultaneously. (There are more examples.). However, how would the parishioners of your church respond to Abraham and/or Jacob showing up with their spouses at Sunday service?

Patriarchal? The problem is far more parochial than that, when they wouldn't be able handle, accept or feel comfortable among the founders of their own Judeo-Christian faith. Like, from what Bible are they reading to possess such a twisted doctrine they live by? If they can't do that, they would certainly look at both you and me as the Pharisees would, and Jesus only spoke to those guys in parables. Only Jesus/ Yeshua (God with us, )would "know" the true story here. (Like, who is to say that her husband wasn't a cuckold? Well, it could happen. ) What ever was going on here, she was Jewish and would "know" her maker WAS her husband, Isaiah 54: 5, and if a Christian like me sees via John 1 "by whom and through whom all things were made" (i.e., the creator, her maker), then add to that John 15:5, and what that implies.

Well, that's what I see, and the story I know, anyway. It was here that Yeshua used her accusers stick to confront them with it. (Spiritual Aikido! I love it; take your opponent's weapon and use it against them, and do so nicely, no less. Nice.)

(Except for a Catholic version of the story I heard at one time, where out from the back of the pack came a stone; zing splat, killing the woman cold junk. And searching for the person who threw that stone within the crowd, upon finding that person, said, "Sometimes, Mother, you really piss me off." <g> Have a good day.<g>) (P.S. Don't worry. Only Catholics will get the joke.)
 
As a Christian and teacher of the Word, I find myself at odds with polygamy and polyamory. Biblically speaking, there is precedent of multiple wives. Understanding the reason why is important. As a previous commenter stated, there is a tradition of patriarchy, and we need to remember that the patriarchy of Israel allowed multiple wives.

One of the "in-between-the-lines" laws of the levirate marriage implies that multiple wives is accepted and allowed. Here, this law states that if a woman's husband dies, she is to remarry his brother so that she will be protected and cared for, and also provide an heir to her dead husband.

As seemingly archaic as this is, today, in actuality, the brother could very well have been already married. This means that the brother would have been in a polygamous relationship as a result of the law.

David was given the wives of Saul. Why? Again, to protect and care for them. While the practice wasn't commonplace, as it would take wealth to marry multiple wives and care for the children, it was a practice.

Even in Jesus' time, the Sadducees came to Jesus to trap him in an argument, but used the levirate marriage as their source of entrapment. Jesus did not, as he should have if the law was wrong, refute the law itself, but the understanding of marriage in the post-resurrection world.

Here, I am making an argument about the ability of a man to have multiple wives, and yet I do not have more than one. I truly believe that the Bible does NOT forbid this practice. And several pastors skirt the issue, or argue the Pauline argument of a leader of the church being married to one wife. However, even then, the argument in the Greek would be the man of his first wife. In other words, a man married to his first wife (not divorced) could also be married to a second wife, and this would allow the leader to serve as a leader.

But now it gets sticky. People use the argument of Adam and Eve-- one plus one, not one plus two. Here, again, we find that Adam married again, and had more sons with the second wife.

Patriarchal or not, the idea is the same-- the care and treatment of the second wife as equal in value and rights as the first. Just because she was the second wife does not mean that she should be given second-class status.

And here is my belief, although I do not currently practice it because of the law-- a man may have multiple wives and it is not a sin. The legality of it in our current system is that it is not allowed and is punishable by fines and prison terms. So, we take one step backward into a polyamorous relationship. Those who value a poly relationship and are Christians should consider the equal love and care of the second "wife" as no better or worse than the first.

Here, the Bible does NOT contradict this relationship, except that in the eyes of God, the man is married to both women. Human laws can consider the rights and loss of rights based on registered domestic partnerships, marriages, etc., but even if the relationship were held among the three, or the blended family (kids) of the three, the fact that the man treats his wives well, with equal loving and care is the purpose of the relationship, modeling Christ's love for the church. Because the legal system in many countries sees this as a bad practice, and most of those also have laws against polygamy, the response really is that the church should step up and, if they accept the poly relationship, the church should not only encourage that the proper care and love and protections of the second "wife" are foremost in the poly relationship, they should also work diligently in the case of difficulty in the relationship.

So, from a Christian perspective, as poly is termed and how we understand polyamorous relationships, religious legality isn't in the eyes of man, but God, and God does not forbid such a relationship. The church should not ignore or turn their heads against the practice, but should do everything in their power to protect such fragile relationships and offer counseling to assist.
 
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I was brought up Christian, became an atheist as a teenager, but then as an adult, when I was feeling empty, sad, lonely and lost, I felt the Spirit enter my heart and call me back. I went back to church, met the woman of my dreams there, married her there, and was happier than I thought I could ever be.

Then we had a child that required us to sacrifice ourselves to care for her. It ruined our relationship and nearly ended our marriage. Faith was the only thing that let me go on living. I thought maybe this was penance for the debauchery of my late teens. I'll serve my penance, I thought, but why must my wife suffer? She doesn't deserve this.

Under the stress, I forgot to be a good husband. I was just the provider. My wife was left alone emotionally. Her friend moved in to support her and help around the house. They supported each other, and it became love. They offered to live as my wives, and me their husband. After much talking and sleepless nights, two months later, I accepted.

I have broken my marriage vows to love only one and forsake all others, and I worry what this means for my soul. But I chose happiness. Not lust, but love-- love for my wife who loves her friend. I pray for guidance, but I haven't felt it. I know what the word of man says, but I was hoping to feel the True Word in my heart. Perhaps I was tested like Job and have failed.

We three attend church. There are whispers, but no one has said anything. It is no secret that we all live together, but we are not 'out' that we are intimate.

I still try to live a life of kindness and giving. Some day I will be judged by my Creator. I hope I'm worthy.
 
Hi SquishyHusk,

If there is/are (a) Creator/s, I think he/she/it/they will judge us (if they judge at all) on whether we were kind and considerate towards the people (and animals) in our lives -- and on whether we tried our honest best based on the information we had. Your decision to welcome your wife's friend into your life and marriage was (and is) a kind and considerate decision for both women (and for yourself). It is the best decision you could make based on the information you had/have. All this I guess is a roundabout way of saying that I think you're doing the right thing.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I was brought up Christian, became an atheist as a teenager, but then as an adult, when I was feeling empty, sad, lonely and lost, I felt the Spirit enter my heart and call me back. I went back to church, met the woman of my dreams there, married her there, and was happier than I thought I could ever be.
Then we had a child that required us to sacrifice ourselves to care for her. It ruined our relationship and nearly ended our marriage. Faith was the only thing that let me go on living. I thought maybe this is penance for the debauchery of late teens. I'll serve my penance, I thought, but why must my wife suffer? She doesn't deserve this.
God doesn't punish us for our sins. If we repent, he forgives us. Sure, there is lots of talk about God destroying Jerusalem (with the help of Babylon) for the sin of Israel's and Judah's various political ties with Egypt and other areas. That, to me, was just written by men to try and explain how God could destroy his people, his children. This was 2600 years ago. I do not believe it is relevant to being punished for a little bit of partying as a young dumb teen.

God would not give your beloved daughter handicaps to punish you. Even the Bible evolved over the years from "God will visit the sins of the father on his future descendants." This was denied by later writers.
Under the stress, I forgot to be a good husband. I was just the provider. My wife was left alone emotionally. Her friend moved in to support her and help around the house. They supported each other, and it became love. They offered to live as my wives, and me their husband. After much talking and sleepless nights, two months later, I accepted. I have broken my marriage vows to love only one and forsake all others, and I worry what this means for my soul.
Lucky for you, there are no rules in the Bible against polygyny or lesbianism. The vow you made to be monogamous is irrelevant, and man-made. God never asked for this.
But I chose happiness. Not lust, but love - love for my wife who loves her friend. I pray for guidance, but I haven't felt it. I know what the word of man says, but I was hoping to feel the True Word in my heart. Perhaps I was tested like Job and I have failed.
Try not to be so dramatic. You're fine. If you reread the Bible, the laws on marriage are pretty lax. The words husband and wife actually don't exist in Hebrew. It's all "man," and "woman." There is no word for marriage. If a man and woman decide to cohabitate (for love OR for social connections between families or countries) they have sex and boom, they're one. The man owns the woman once he has sex with her. It's that simple.
We three attend church. There are whispers, but no one has said anything. It is no secret that we all live together, but we are not 'out' that we are intimate.
Good.
I still try to live a life of kindness, and giving.
Excellent.
Someday I will be judged by my Creator. I hope that I'm worthy.
You are. She's fine with you. ;) You've made mistakes, but you're doing your best.

This is the word.
 
I'm a poly Christian. I don't tell this to my judgmental Christian friends. Some trustworthy ones know and we have healthy discussions about it. I'm trying to find answers.

I'm still investigating and trying to find out whether the Bible supports it. There seem to be a verses in favor, as well as against it. I have long discussions with one of my best friends, who is a Christian monogamist. Throughout the Old Testament, there are laws regulating polygyny. All of the Old Testament prophets were polygynists. The law to not commit adultery was given to Moses, who himself was a polygynist and continued to be so.

The Bible itself has verses defining sin as something unlawful (going against the law). Now, adultery was a sin, but the Bible gives us laws regulating polygyny/polyamory. This means that this practice doesn't fall under adultery, since the Bible cannot contradict itself.

Many argue that God said marriage is between one man and one woman, but the bible doesn't say so until Paul came into the picture. And he specifically addressed this to the Corinthians, who wrote to him about the wild adulterous practices going on in Corinth during that era, specifically prostitution, which indeed is adultery, according to the Bible. He said since there is adultery happening, let each man have one wife and each woman have one husband. This was done to protect the elect from involuntarily falling into adultery.

The verse that monogamist Christians always quite in a debate is Genesis 2:24 which says, "Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." It does not say that this process has to happen with one wife. All it talks about is how the union between a husband and wife is supposed to be. If a man marries a second wife, the same process happens. Deuteronomy 21:10-14 talks about how to go about marrying captive wives. Exodus 21:10 talks about treating wives equally. And these laws were given by God himself to Moses to pass on to the people, and no, it was all given AFTER the law, "Do not commit adultery." God won't contradict himself!

Another argument made is the New Testament has abolished the old laws and since the New Testament only talks about monogamy and not polygyny/polygamy/polyamory, they are sins. This is a very wrong notion. Jesus did not abolish the old law. He stood by it. Kept it. Told the Pharisees they did not understand it. He only extended the law.

The only concept that has been replaced in the New Testament is how we attain salvation-- through Jesus. This means that we don't have to offer sacrifices to attain salvation anymore, since the ultimate sacrifice has already been offered. When a constitution creates a law, it isn't revoked until said so. The old laws on polygyny were never revoked, not even by Jesus himself.

Conclusion: my current belief stands that polyamory is acceptable, as long as it is practiced by the law, which will protect us from adultery. (For example, the Bible says a believer should not lie with someone unbelieving.)

I am still open to the idea that I may be wrong, but I haven't come across an argument that I haven't been able to counter yet. And if I'm wrong, I really hope to God I find it in the scriptures soon, because I don't want to be one of the delusional cases.

I would love to have healthy debates, if anyone is up for it.

I want to close with a last bombshell. I won't elaborate on it. Just a scripture:
2 Samuel 12: 7,8
7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more.
 
I applaud your attempts to make sense of "God's" views on marriage. You write as a believer, but the attempt is pretty good.

It can be summed up thusly: the Bible was written by men over many centuries, in many cultural circumstances, under the influence of many great civilizations, i.e., Assyrian, Egyptian, Canaanite, Phoenician, Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman. Every single empire that dominated the tiny state of Judah/Israel was patriarchal. The main thing that mattered in marriages was to ensure that a man could pass down his estate, big or small, to his own biological offspring. Men outright owned their women and children. Women were carefully controlled to ensure they didn't fuck men other than their husbands. (I'm sure this was impossible, but they tried. lol)

Women could have sex with other women because it wouldn't result in children. Lesbianism is never addressed in the Bible (a mere vague mention in Paul notwithstanding).

Therefore, polygyny is just fine. In fact, as the FLDS (and other fundamentalist Mormon cults) know and practice today, the more wives the better (Not that they love and care for their wives equally. Even having child brides [child sexual abuse] is just fine.)

Modern polyamory is not polygyny. Not even close. Modern polyamory is feminist, insisting that women are free to love and fuck whomever they want, of any gender they want. Women are not owned by men. Women can be awarded custody of their own children. Children now also have more rights. So, the views of Christianity on modern polyamory are pretty irrelevant, from a modern legal standpoint. You can justify it to yourself, and feel righteous, by picking out the right verses, but in the end, it's just to make yourself feel better.

Whatever gets you through the night, though! :)
 
Avidso, I will join Maglyn in appreciating your effort to reconcile poly with traditional Biblical Christianity - although it is a bit of a stretch - and unlikely to be be widely accepted. As Magdlyn noted the polygyny in the Bible is not the same as polyamory - which is indeed more feminist driven. If you will scroll up the thread, there is a link to an article I wrote sometime back about poly-friendly churches - all of which take a much more liberal view of the Bible than do traditional Christian churches. You might want to take a look at it and consider investigating other options. New Thought, for example, reinterprets the Bible esoterically (or metaphysically).

Just as a sidenote - I am flying out to tomorrow for my annual visit to see my long distance partner, Wendy - whom I originally met here on this forum when she went by Bouncingbetty (before she became completely open) - seven years ago now. She now hosts a poly household with multiple interlocking partnerships (sort of a mini poly commune in a 7 bedroom home courtesy of a converted basement).
 
Wrong...

1) This wasn't an attempt. These are facts I've collected after years of research and debating with Christians.
2) As an avid researcher on the topic, I know what polygamy, polygyny, polyamory and polyandry mean. Hence I used polygyny in my post instead of using only polyamory.
3) The main thing that was supposed to be practiced in marriages according to the law, was not inheritance, but love. Inheritance was a result of it. And polygyny made it very difficult when it came to inheritance, hence the laws around polygyny were given.
4) You're right in saying modern polyamory. I don't care about modern polyamory. I was only responding to the main post about "Christian" Polyamory. Why would I talk about something not asked in this post?
5) Modern polyamory churches are not what I'm looking for. Their belief systems are flawed and unbiblical. At least the ones I've come across.
 
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