Poly with a tween - thoughts on communicating to kids

[Goldie]

Hi there,

My wife Misty and I have been together over 20 years, and after a long journey of self-discovery she figured out she is poly. About 2 years ago she started dating someone long-distance, and their relationship has become very serious/long-term. It has been very challenging for me but has also offered growth opportunities for us as a couple and as individuals.

The question I'd love input on is how to navigate this with our 12-year old daughter. She knows Misty takes regular trips to see friends and once Misty's other partner Franco came to our house with his young kids while I was out of town, so she knows who he is, and liked him. However, I think she would have a lot of difficult feelings about Misty going to visit him and his kids (though Misty does not have a co-parenting role of any kind); plus, she is extremely attuned and could not help but notice my distress while Misty is gone, no matter how much I try to mask it, and we definitely don't want to put the burden of my own struggles with this onto her.

It frankly feels like too much to navigate a 12-year olds feelings in the mix of how hard it is simply to switch from mono to mono-poly after decades of relationship. It's a lot for a kid to process to have a parent regularly leave to be with her "other family" (which is how I imagine it will seem to her), especially when we don't have any poly peers with kids that could help normalize this experience for her (the metamours kids are much too young). However, I am positive she will feel angry and lied to by omission when she eventually finds out, and it would be terrible for her to somehow learn this from someone else rather than us telling her.

I feel like she should know sooner than later, especially before building any more of a relationship with Franco/his kids, but I also feel like it will be a lot to manage as a family and we already have some really challenging family things we're navigating that I don't want to go into right now. Part of me wonders, should Misty even be in a second relationship right now if we don't think our daughter can be part of the conversation? Misty says this is about her adult identity and has nothing to do with our kid, so it's ok to keep them separate, but we were parents first, and we happen to have a kid who I'm pretty sure is going to care very deeply about her mom having another partner - a mix of feelings, not only difficult ones, but it's going to be a big thing.

Anyone who has navigated a comparable situation, I would love to hear your experience and thoughts!

 

[Magdlyn]

Would you please go back and edit and use actual nicknames for your wife and her other partner, rather than just using initials or "other partner"? It makes for better understanding and getting better advice. Thanks!

 

[Magdlyn]

For starters:

How to Talk to Children about Polyamory

Tips for discussing consensual nonmonogamy with your children.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Goldie,

Weighing in all the factors that you mentioned, I think telling your twelve-year-old about the poly situation is your best move. I am not sure there is any way you can spare your daughter of the difficult feelings she will have when you tell her. I just think that outcome would be preferable to the anger she would feel if she found out from someone else. There's not always a clean, easy option when it comes to telling the kids.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'll offer you a different perspective. When the 12-year-old starts dating, what makes you think they aren't going to be exploring poly? Do you want to teach sex ed/relationship ed, so that those initial dating explorations go well and the child will be prepared and willing to come tell you things? Or not, and instead keep their things secret?

Just because the parents are hesitant to talk about some things doesn't mean it's not happening to the kids already, even if the parents think it is "too early for that." Rather than projecting all your assumptions and worries on the 12-year-old, how about letting her have some space to have her own thoughts said out loud, to find out the actuality?

You don't have to overload your kid. You could say, "I just wanted you to know, since you are now of age: we practice polyamory. Mom has a BF. It's Franco. I'm okay with it. I'm not dating anyone right now. It doesn't change how we feel about each other. We love each other. It doesn't change how we feel about you. We love you. If you have questions about it, you can ask. If you want books, we can get you some."

So maybe she'll think, "Oh, okay. Nothing hinky is going on here. And good, Mom's BF is LDR and not local, so my friends don't have to know about it if they come over here."

I feel like she should know sooner than later, especially before building any more of a relationship with Franco/his kids,

I agree with you. There are books and resources. At age 12, you might consider:

All About S.E.X.: The Scarleteen Book!

Considered by many to be *the* sex and relationships book for young people, this Lambda Literary Award nominee currently in its 2nd edition covers everything from STIs to sexual orientation⁠, body image⁠ to birth control, masturbation⁠ to media to misogyny, the anatomy⁠ of the clitoris⁠ to...

www.scarleteen.com

... some time soon, along with all the other puberty/adolescence books and resources, and giving your tween OTHER SAFE ADULTS to talk to. That's why I chose godparents carefully for my kids and picked the closest aunts on both sides of the family. I told them who the safe adults were and that if they weren't ready to talk to Mom or Dad, but needed a grown up, to go to their godparents or aunts.

Perhaps you want to think about family therapy or individual therapy if the situation merits it, if the child needs a safe adult that's a counselor.

I told kids I was poly when they were in middle school (MS). Because we'd already established that age-appropriate sex ed/relationship ed was okay to talk about, nobody cared and it wasn't a big deal. It was amusing when they told me the same thing I had always told them:

"I don't care who you date -- boys, girls, one of each, whatever. Just don't bring home any abusive weirdos. I think I'm being very fair. What do you think?"

They agreed it was fair. Then they just told me the same thing: "I don't care if my parents are poly and date. Just don't bring home abusive weirdos."

Part of me wonders, should Misty even be in a second relationship right now if we don't think our daughter can be part of the conversation? Misty says this is about her adult identity and has nothing to do with our kid, so it's ok to keep them separate,

But the kid LIVES HERE. And if Misty brings her BF over here, Misty is NOT keeping it separate in actions. It's not like the kid grew up and moved out and has NO part in this. The kid lives here. She's already met Franco and his kids. Mom can't call it "separate" and then be bringing her other life over here where the kid is. Were you even good with your kid meeting Franco and his kids when you were out of town?

I think Misty is being short-sighted, and doing some "say one thing, but do another" stuff. That puts both you and the kid in an awkward place.

If you don't talk about it, and the kid is watching your face, do you want to risk her connecting the dots wrong, and maybe think Mom is cheating with Franco? Or what you suspect -- your kid will get upset or jealous when Mom goes away to "her other family," and maybe blame herself, thinking, "I'm not good enough to keep Mom here," or other weird stuff.

No, you don't overload the kid with things you could tell a therapist, like how hard it is for you to change to polyamory after decades of monogamy. But you CAN give age-appropriate info about what poly is, and say that her parents practice poly.

And again... what makes y'all think that when this 12-year-old starts dating, that poly or dating more than one person at once, won't be part of the mix?

Some kids start dating early, in MS. They also date in secret. I remember being in MS and people dating secretly and a lot of "don't tell the parents" stuff going on.

What are you teaching here? That this is "bad" and should "not be talked about?" If she learned to hide stuff from Misty, and you are hiding, what might she hide later? Or do you want to teach her that this is just normal life and another relationship model, and the family can just be open about stuff in life, cuz it's not a big deal? These are some things to mull over with your coparent.

Misty hasn't been dating Franco for two weeks or two months. It's been two years. So, yeah, it's probably time to clue the kid in. A 12-year-old is not a baby. They are wrapping up their tweens and moving into their teens.

My two cents,
Galagirl

 

[WestCoastRedhead]

Hi there,

My wife Misty and I have been together over 20 years, and after a long journey of self-discovery she figured out she is poly. About 2 years ago she started dating someone long-distance, and their relationship has become very serious/long-term. It has been very challenging for me but has also offered growth opportunities for us as a couple and as individuals.

The question I'd love input on is how to navigate this with our 12-year old daughter. She knows Misty takes regular trips to see friends and once Misty's other partner Franco came to our house with his young kids while I was out of town, so she knows who he is, and liked him. However, I think she would have a lot of difficult feelings about Misty going to visit him and his kids (though Misty does not have a co-parenting role of any kind); plus, she is extremely attuned and could not help but notice my distress while Misty is gone, no matter how much I try to mask it, and we definitely don't want to put the burden of my own struggles with this onto her.

It frankly feels like too much to navigate a 12-year olds feelings in the mix of how hard it is simply to switch from mono to mono-poly after decades of relationship. It's a lot for a kid to process to have a parent regularly leave to be with her "other family" (which is how I imagine it will seem to her), especially when we don't have any poly peers with kids that could help normalize this experience for her (the metamours kids are much too young). However, I am positive she will feel angry and lied to by omission when she eventually finds out, and it would be terrible for her to somehow learn this from someone else rather than us telling her.

I feel like she should know sooner than later, especially before building any more of a relationship with Franco/his kids, but I also feel like it will be a lot to manage as a family and we already have some really challenging family things we're navigating that I don't want to go into right now. Part of me wonders, should Misty even be in a second relationship right now if we don't think our daughter can be part of the conversation? Misty says this is about her adult identity and has nothing to do with our kid, so it's ok to keep them separate, but we were parents first, and we happen to have a kid who I'm pretty sure is going to care very deeply about her mom having another partner - a mix of feelings, not only difficult ones, but it's going to be a big thing.

Anyone who has navigated a comparable situation, I would love to hear your experience and thoughts!

Heya, just a quick bit from my own experience - when my (ex) husband and I opened our marriage, after about 6 months, we did tell our 12 year old son. Both of my boys (the other 9 years old) had spent time with both my husband's GF and my BF, so they knew them. I don't know that my son really got the concept of loving more than one person, but we tried.

I'd encourage you to not hide it.

 

[Goldie]

Thanks for the input everyone. Just to clarify, our daughter is extremely well versed in the diversity of ways people can be attracted to and in relationship with each other, including positive messaging around polyamory. She knows one set of our poly friends and so has some frame of reference, and she quite gleefully imagines maybe having multiple partners herself someday. So that's not the issue with telling her.

I think the emotional reality of her mom leaving to spend time with Franco and family is going to be challenging for a kid of her highly sensitive temperament, and it's going to be a lot of emotional labor for all three of us to navigate. She already has a lot of feels that mom leaves regularly to see "friends". And I can't look her in the eye and simply say "I'm ok with this" while Misty is gone, because parts of me are distinctly not ok with it. I have an extremely somatic "no" reaction to their relationship that is rooted deep in past trauma unrelated to Misty, and it takes tons of my energy to continually work through this response and choose to keep doing this. I really struggle to show up as a parent from this activated place even without our daughter having feelings of her own around this. I would LOVE to have other adults our daughter could look to for support especially during Misty's trips, but we don't have any such relationships and it's been really difficult to even find peer support for myself around this. (Our only poly friends have no kids and are not good at connecting with her) We’re working on seeking out support for all three of us, but it's far from where I'd like it to be.

So yeah, I'm scared I won't be emotionally able to show up for my daughter around this because it's already straining me personally so much, but my gut also says she needs to know. Maybe if we can't emotionally navigate it as a family system right now it's not the right time for Misty to be actively pursuing a second relationship? And we won't know if we can all handle it until we tell her and give it some time to process.

Has anyone navigated a kid having strong feelings when they found out? She is an intensely loving, sensitive, empathetic, reactive, and neurodivergent kid. Not easy going at all, but also incredible. She experiences everything on a deep level, and this will be no different

 

[Magdlyn]

Thanks for the input everyone. Just to clarify, our daughter is extremely well versed in the diversity of ways people can be attracted to and in relationship with each other, including positive messaging around polyamory. She knows one set of our poly friends and so has some frame of reference, and she quite gleefully imagines maybe having multiple partners herself someday. So that's not the issue with telling her.

That's good.

I think the emotional reality of her mom leaving to spend time with Franco and family is going to be challenging for a kid of her highly sensitive temperament, and it's going to be a lot of emotional labor for all three of us to navigate. She already has a lot of feels that mom leaves regularly to see "friends".

Her mom can't have friends she goes and visits? That sounds a bit unusual for a 12 year old. (Oh. I see you mean she is neurodivergent.)

And I can't look her in the eye and simply say "I'm ok with this" while Misty is gone, because parts of me are distinctly not ok with it. I have an extremely somatic "no" reaction to their relationship that is rooted deep in past trauma unrelated to Misty, and it takes tons of my energy to continually work through this response and choose to keep doing this. I really struggle to show up as a parent from this activated place even without our daughter having feelings of her own around this.

This sounds like an issue that is just as much of a problem as what problems your daughter has around her mom even having friends. Have you had therapy to work on your childhood trauma/PTSD?

Maybe you'd be better off living alone (or with a monogamous partner somewhere down the road)? I bet you fear breaking up would cause even more upset for your daughter, but if she senses already that something's wrong with Dad, if you come clean at least that Mom has a bf... it's usually better to know than to be kept in the dark, especially since daughter is already familiar with the concept!

I would LOVE to have other adults our daughter could look to for support especially during Misty's trips, but we don't have any such relationships and it's been really difficult to even find peer support for myself around this. (Our only poly friends have no kids and are not good at connecting with her) We’re working on seeking out support for all three of us, but it's far from where I'd like it to be.

I'm glad you've come here. Lots of us have had experience with doing poly with kids in the mix!

So yeah, I'm scared I won't be emotionally able to show up for my daughter around this because it's already straining me personally so much, but my gut also says she needs to know. Maybe if we can't emotionally navigate it as a family system right now it's not the right time for Misty to be actively pursuing a second relationship? And we won't know if we can all handle it until we tell her and give it some time to process.

It's not a great idea to limit other people's behaviors, activities and growth so that you can avoid facing and healing your PTSD. You don't own your wife. You don't get to tell her to break up a good r'ship of two years because of your own issues. Either get help and work through your issues, or break up so that the problem isn't in your face. You can still be a great dad if you live nearby and have shared custody.

Has anyone navigated a kid having strong feelings when they found out? She is an intensely loving, sensitive, empathetic, reactive, and neurodivergent kid. Not easy going at all, but also incredible. She experiences everything on a deep level, and this will be no different.

I was wondering if she was neurodivergent. Yes, that does make things trickier. But there are plenty of neurodivergent adults who do poly and other adults who are poly with neurodivergent kids. (One of my kids has borderline personality disorder, and while her initial reaction to my ex and I separating was extreme, she came to accept it over time, with therapeutic help. She had her own life to live, her own problems, as long as Mom and Dad were there for her when she needed us, she was OK.)

I hope some others will chime in here. It is not a "don't go there" zone for people with neurodiversity.

Now, it might be good for your wife to have the break from your daughter. I don't know how challenging your daughter's behaviors are. Some autistic kids can be downright violent... I hope she's in appropriate programs.

Are you also neurodivergent? It runs in families, I have heard. Just wondering.

 

[GalaGirl]

One of my kids is neurodivergent and I think that just adds to the "maybe they connect the dots wrong" thing. That just makes it even more important to have a conversation with the child sooner, rather than later.

I went to ask my kid, and they agreed. Tell the kid before they connect the dots wrong. They said it can damage parent/child relationships if the kid connects the dots wrong and thinks one parent is cheating. That assumption will make relationships with both parents weird.

They also brought up "playground gossip," cuz kids DO talk to each other. You said "young kids," but did not mention actual ages.

With Franco and his kids coming over to visit, if he's out to his kids and having honest conversations in their family, you can't control that. But what happens if the FIRST time your kid hears about this poly V, it is not from you and Misty, but from one of Franco's kids in casual conversation, them not realizing that your kid was being kept in the dark? How's that gonna feel to Kid? Or what if the younger kids look to your kid for help/guidance because they have suspicions of cheating, but them asking puts a bug in your kid's ear?

We could "what if" a lot of things.

Bottom line: you sound like you want to tell Kid. Is the main hold-up on that Misty?

And I can't look her in the eye and simply say "I'm ok with this" while Misty is gone, because parts of me are distinctly not ok with it.

You can be honest that you consent to being in a poly V, but sometimes you ALSO have big feelings about it. And yes, you miss Mom when she's gone.

I really struggle to show up as a parent from this activated place even without our daughter having feelings of her own around this.

You can be honest about that too. The kid is 12, not 2. Just give age appropriate, "enough, but not too much," info.

• About being in a poly V.
• About being a parent to a pubescent person sometimes being a challenge.
• About being a parent to an ND person sometimes being a challenge.
• About wanting to be honest, but some things are just not Kid's business, because it's TMI details or adult-level problems and they are not yet an adult.

I remember I used to put MYSELF in "time out" when overwhelmed with parenting. I'd say: "Kid, I feel FULL, so I need a time out first. Here's 10 minutes on the timer. When it beeps you can come back and ask me that again."

By MS I would still do that, but I'd tell them that just as they felt wackadoo getting through puberty and adolescence, *I* felt wackadoo, even worse than getting through my OWN puberty/adolescence (and that wasn't great).

They were sometimes pushing one of my buttons called, "feeling helpless, I can't help someone I love." It is what it is, and we'd get through it together. But Mom is NOT magic. Mom is ALSO a human being. Mom will always be there, and have their back. But sometimes she is going to be low on sleep and all cranky-ass and not even have her pants on yet, so they will have to deal with that.

Sometimes Mom will know the answer. Other times Mom won't know the answer, but will try to find out. And sometimes it's just NOT the kid's business. But however it lands, Mom will be honest about it.

You do not have to be omnipotent as a parent. It's okay to show your humanity to your 12 yr old. It's okay to be honest and give age-appropriate info. It's also okay to have personal boundaries and tell the ND kid that their questions are going into TMI territory that isn't their business.

Maybe if we can't emotionally navigate it as a family system right now, it's not the right time for Misty to be actively pursuing a second relationship? And we won't know if we can all handle it until we tell her and give it some time to process.

What would you expect Misty to do, just dump Franco from the sky? Misty and Franco are two years in, not two weeks. That would not be a reasonable request. Or did you mean you asking Misty to limit her poly dating to Franco, who is already here, and not date NEW people, trying to find a second other relationship? If you mean that, I think that's a reasonable request. You and Misty have parenting backlog to catch up first.

With Misty going away on these trips, are YOU getting to take enough trips, where Misty takes care of Kid? Are you getting days off during the week from active parenting duty? Are you getting get enough parenting breaks? Cuz it can be intense with an ND kid.

Galagirl

 

[SlowPoly]

My experience with my kids and poly won’t be relevant here. My kids are very neurotypical, and they just grew up with poly being a thing people could do. My very parallel poly partners (other than their own dad) were abstractions to the kids until they met Mitch when I was roundly pregnant with Little One. I guess the only relevant thing is that they see poly as “just the way some families are” and it sounds like your (OP’s) kid is already in that boat. Yay!!

What I want to chime in on is that you really don’t want kid worrying (or being told) that a parent might be cheating. My dad was an incorrigible cheater, and the whispering and informing and noticing and assuming and pitying and … all the worst of human relating that twisted around the open secret was just crappy for a tween and teen (and all my siblings, tween to adult; and all the friends and relatives who didn’t know whether to talk to my mom or not). Don’t put your kid through that. Arm them with the boring truth before they get tangled up in other people’s (or their own) assumptions.

Also want to say that GalaGirl’s point about letting kids see and believe that parents are human, with human needs, rights, and “failings” is super important. I think it helps them be more accepting of their own needs and feelings, *and* reminds them that their own preferences aren’t the only thing that matter in a family (or community).

Maybe if we can't emotionally navigate it as a family system right now it's not the right time for Misty to be actively pursuing a second relationship? And we won't know if we can all handle it until we tell her and give it some time to process.

I would really caution against “if this is potentially hard for the 12yo shouldn’t mom stop dating?” kind of thinking. While we have (imho) vastly more obligations to our children than to our partners, we also can’t literally plan our lives around their comfort. They learn to adjust to change. Kids need to grow, and we need to live. I don’t think this is different for ND kids, but I will admit I know little there.

I do wonder if you are letting that idea have more weight because of your discomfort with the situation — would be convenient if you could let it be the right decision for the kid and for the family, because it would also assuage your pain. I’m not trying to accuse you. But in your shoes I would be asking myself how much of my concern there is just my mind latching onto a compelling narrative (think of the child!) to get the outcome I want.

I hope you all are able to navigate all of this with love and mutual comfort. It sounds like you care a lot and pay attention to people’s feelings. I’m very hopeful for your family’s continued thriving.

 

[Albert Ross]

I do wonder if you are letting that idea have more weight because of your discomfort with the situation

If it's helpful to the OP, I'll just say that this jumped out at me, too. We can't read your mind, of course, but your own discomfort is clear in your words, and should also (perhaps first) be addressed.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Misty says this is about her adult identity and has nothing to do with our kid, so it's ok to keep them separate

To me, this is the glaring discrepancy. Misty isn't keeping them separate. She's integrated your daughter into the life of Franco.

 

[SlowPoly]

To me, this is the glaring discrepancy. Misty isn't keeping them separate. She's integrated your daughter into the life of Franco.

Actually I wanted to say something to OP about this, too. I agree with part of what Misty seems to have said (via paraphrase): that having a kid doesn’t mean you can’t be poly. But I disagree that it has “nothing to do” with the kid (for all the above reasons). That she has introduced them makes being honest about the situation even more important.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Actually I wanted to say something to OP about this, too. I agree with part of what Misty seems to have said (via paraphrase): that having a kid doesn’t mean you can’t be poly. But I disagree that it has “nothing to do” with the kid (for all the above reasons). That she has introduced them makes being honest about the situation even more important.

Honestly, given all the information that OP has given, I think Misty has made some mistakes.

We know there is reason that the child in question might not process this in a positive light. More than usual due to being ND. We also know that OP and Misty aren't mutually content with their arrangement. This adds an additional stressor.

Despite this, Misty has marched forwards to a point where this conversation is relevant.

Maybe if we can't emotionally navigate it as a family system right now it's not the right time for Misty to be actively pursuing a second relationship?

That's why I think this question from the OP might not be a hasty one. What happens if their daughter really doesn't handle this well?

 

[SlowPoly]

That's why I think this question from the OP might not be a hasty one. What happens if their daughter really doesn't handle this well?

As a question specifically about a ND kid, I am not qualified to answer.

But for kids in general, and big changes in general, we support kids through family transitions that are hard for them. Give them time and space to process and express. Answer questions as appropriate to age and respect for privacy.

This could just as easily be a divorce that the child would have to adjust to. Or an interstate move.

The crux of it for me is that they aren’t talking about starting a new thing and telling the kid. They’re talking about telling the kid “by the way, this is the shape of our relationships” with whatever disclaimers or apologies belong there for the delay in honesty. The lack of upheaval in daily life (because it’s already been going for two years, right?) should help them see it’s simply the air they’ve been breathing.

Complete aside: this is how we told our kids about our on-paper divorce. A few months later, when it was clear the big D word wasn’t going to change their lives at all.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

As a question specifically about a ND kid, I am not qualified to answer.

But for kids in general, and big changes in general, we support kids through family transitions that are hard for them. Give them time and space to process and express. Answer questions as appropriate to age and respect for privacy.

This could just as easily be a divorce that the child would have to adjust to. Or an interstate move.

The crux of it for me is that they aren’t talking about starting a new thing and telling the kid. They’re talking about telling the kid “by the way, this is the shape of our relationships” with whatever disclaimers or apologies belong there for the delay in honesty. The lack of upheaval in daily life (because it’s already been going for two years, right?) should help them see it’s simply the air they’ve been breathing.

Complete aside: this is how we told our kids about our on-paper divorce. A few months later, when it was clear the big D word wasn’t going to change their lives at all.

I think some people prone to anxiety are more likely to think "ahhhhh the air I've been breathing has been toxic all this time".

It's hard to stick to ideals. However, I think Misty should have probably had the general "we aren't monogamous" conversation with their daughter before she started doing "stealth KTP" with her.

They have the foundation where she knows it exists.

Next should be "we aren't monogamous" (because bringing partners home wasn't ruled out).

Then "and this is someone I've met".

I'm thinking of a young NT girl in my family, she's a little younger with a monogamous single mother, but I'd imagine her feeling slighted if she didn't know the guy her mother had her interacting with was a dating partner, and not the friend she made him out to be.

 

[Goldie]

Thanks everyone. Reading your thoughts and sitting with my own have made it clear the issue is less whether to tell our daughter (yes, I think the time for that has come, as many of you agree), but that it is just painful for everyone to be in a relationship where you are differently oriented, and didn't come to understand that until already building a life together and deeply loving each other for decades.

We've been working on this new configuration for a couple years now and come a long way, but it's still not easy, and we will have to present a fully unified front to our kid which will be challenging when we don't have the same vision for the future. Misty wants KTP and for Franco to move here, I have never met him and don't want to feel pressured to have a relationship with him. It would be pretty hard not to if he moved here as a single parent of toddlers, knowing no one here but Misty, and our daughter would love to have relationships with his kids. (To clarify, she has only met him once, and he came here because of a family crisis, to offer his support)

I know many folks here have been hurt in mono poly relationships and might have the response that we should separate, so Misty can live the kind of poly life she wants and I can find a mono partner like I would prefer, but it's not that simple. The life she wants most and is choosing is one with me, even with my limitations, and I am wanting/choosing one with her, even though I often find poly emotionally challenging. It's messy and intense and very tender. Franco came into this with full knowledge that this would be hierarchical, visits would be limited by the logistics of long distance and parenting, and I was doing my work but not fully on board. He chose to continue building a relationship with Misty even though he doesn't really want to be the non-primary (why he didn't walk away early on because of this, I am unclear). So she is navigating his distress as well, and feeling the strain of being the hinge when no one is in their ideal situation. It's a lot just for the adults.

Misty and I are in agreement that our daughter should know before meeting Franco again, but we disagree that she should know before Misty goes on another trip to see her "friend" Franco and kids. Telling her would require telling Misty's parents; if we tell our daughter she can't talk about it with family, it's just going to send a shameful message, right? Misty is understandably reluctant to take that step, and I sure don't want to talk to my parents about it either! So I can see there are things to consider here before taking the step of telling our daughter. Most importantly, agreeing together how we present what is happening and where it is going (our daughter will unquestionably ask, and start to imagine Francos kids as some kind of cousin - she longs for siblings), and not bringing my reluctance or Misty's big dreams into the conversations with our kid as much as possible.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I don't think she needs to tell her daughter if she isn't insisting on them sharing space.

I get that it's hard for your daughter when her mother is away for any reason, but that's something she should work on. It sounds like your daughter attends mainstream education and is expected to live an independent adult life where she too will be having relationships. Sorting out her attachment issues now is the best time to do it. Not when she's a teen/young adult navigating the dating scene.

So I disagree that Misty needs to disclose if she goes to visit Franco alone.

 

[Magdlyn]

Thanks everyone. Reading your thoughts and sitting with my own have made it clear the issue is less whether to tell our daughter (yes, I think the time for that has come, as many of you agree), but that it is just painful for everyone to be in a relationship where you are differently oriented, and didn't come to understand that until already building a life together and deeply loving each other for decades.

We've been working on this new configuration for a couple years now and come a long way, but it's still not easy, and we will have to present a fully unified front to our kid which will be challenging when we don't have the same vision for the future.

I know it's ideal to show a kid a "unified front," but that's more in line with child discipline. As far as life choices, moms and dads are allowed to have somewhat different interests and values and approaches to life. Mom and Dad aren't clones of each other. My dad loved stock car races and my mom loved classical music concerts. They attended those events separately, with like-minded friends.

Misty wants KTP and for Franco to move here.

She can want that. Doesn't mean she gets it.

I have never met him and don't want to feel pressured to have a relationship with him.

You shouldn't feel forced to meet anyone you don't want to meet.

This needs negotiation. Your home should be your safe space. Maybe you could get into this gradually, but there's no reason for you to start hanging out with Franco all the time just because Misty wants it. My meta is introverted and while my gf, the hinge, would love for the three of us to hang out more, or even share a home, we don't, because he doesn't have the spoons for it. I don't want to share my home with a meta either. My gf just has separation anxiety and hates the transition of going back and forth between our houses. But there are three people who need to be considered here, not just one. Adults need to work this shit out, and not try to steamroll each other, or downplay the others' feelings.

It would be pretty hard not to if he moved here as a single parent of toddlers, knowing no one here but Misty.

He would need to get a job, where he could make friends. He might also make friends with neighbors, with the parents of his kids' friends, etc.. He shouldn't assume he gets to be in your home 24/7 because HE made the decision to move to a town where he (initially) only knows one person.

our daughter would love to have relationships with his kids. (To clarify, she has only met him once.).

Your daughter should not be encouraged to perseverate about being fully involved with a couple of toddlers she only met once. She should be encouraged to get closer with more appropriate people.

I know many folks here have been hurt in mono/poly relationships and might have the response that we should separate, so Misty can live the kind of poly life she wants and I can find a mono partner like I would prefer, but it's not that simple. The life she wants most and is choosing is one with me, even with my limitations, and I am wanting/choosing one with her, even though I often find poly emotionally challenging. It's messy and intense and very tender.

Franco came into this with full knowledge that this would be hierarchical, visits would be limited by the logistics of long distance and parenting, and I was doing my work but not fully on board. He chose to continue building a relationship with Misty even though he doesn't really want to be the non-primary (why he didn't walk away early on because of this, I am unclear).

This was quite unwise of him, and unwise of Missy to continue to date him knowing he wants to be her primary, and demote you to secondary. If he's ok with being co-primaries, that's different. Often newly poly couples promise each other that they will always be each other's number ones, only to have feelings for a new partner get unexpectedly deep, requiring renegotiation. This can feel extremely painful for the demoted partner. (BTDT.)

So she is navigating his distress as well, and feeling the strain of being the hinge when no one is in their ideal situation. It's a lot just for the adults.

She has chosen a difficult situation, for sure. No one is happy. Everyone is stuck trying to hold the others back.

Misty and I are in agreement that our daughter should know before meeting Franco again, but we disagree that she should know before Misty goes on another trip to see her "friend" Franco and kids. Telling her would require telling Misty's parents; if we tell our daughter she can't talk about it with family, it's just going to send a shameful message, right?

This was addressed in the article I first linked you to. Yes, doing poly with kids in the mix involves telling them and risking them telling the grandparents, their friends, getting around town in general. Some people can lose family members and jobs if they out themselves or get outed. But as we see, telling your kid half truths or outright lying to her is also bad for her security.

If you are middle-aged, or even younger, sometimes you need to "come out" and deal with the possible losses. Gay and trans people struggle with this all the time, so you might look into how millions of queers have dealt with this issue.

5 Steps to Help You Come Out as Polyamorous

Coming out as polyamorous isn't the same as coming out as gay or bisexual.

www.pride.com

Usually, when you make a life choice or parenting choice that your relatives disapprove of, you tell them, "This is the choice we have made that is right for our family." And then hang up, leave the room, leave the house, if the relatives start hassling you, despite your calm confident explanation.

I know you don't feel calm and confident, but you can fake it til you make it, when you face others.

Misty is understandably reluctant to take that step, and I sure don't want to talk to my parents about it either!

After two years, it's time. It might not be time if you didn't have a kid. But you do. And having kids comes with difficult responsibilities. You chose to have a kid and put her first. Her needs matter more than your parents' comfort. Or your comfort, for that matter.

So I can see there are things to consider here before taking the step of telling our daughter. Most importantly, agreeing together how we present what is happening and where it is going (our daughter will unquestionably ask, and start to imagine Francos kids as some kind of cousin - she longs for siblings),

Stop talking about Franco's kids!! Don't let her build that fantasy.

and not bringing my reluctance or Misty's big dreams into the conversations with our kid as much as possible.

 

[SlowPoly]

He chose to continue building a relationship with Misty even though he doesn't really want to be the non-primary (why he didn't walk away early on because of this, I am unclear). So she is navigating his distress as well, and feeling the strain of being the hinge when no one is in their ideal situation. It's a lot just for the adults.

Misty also chose to continue with Franco when he (apparently) consistently expressed wanting to be primary.

I know to walk away from people who “really” want a primary or monogamous relationship with me, but are “willing to try” what I am able to offer. To me, a potential has to see a livable future in what I’m able to offer now, or the relationship stays where we aren’t under pressure to be more or less than we want to be to each other. That might mean friends without cajoling or wistful comments. That might mean people who used to know each other.

Telling her would require telling Misty's parents; if we tell our daughter she can't talk about it with family, it's just going to send a shameful message, right? Misty is understandably reluctant to take that step, and I sure don't want to talk to my parents about it either!

Well, you’ve both had two grown-up years to prepare to do something difficult but necessary. What was your long-term plan here? Misty wants to live her identity regardless of everyone, but to do so in secret? For you I get that you feel like a lot of uncomfortable stuff is being imposed on you. But you also are choosing to try this model, and doubling down about staying with Misty in mono/poly.

I suggest you prepare yourselves (without delaying needlessly), put the cards on the table, release yourselves from the looming dread, deal with the fallout, and support your kid as you move forward in honesty and authenticity.