Polyamorists who have had near death experiences

Zay

Member
Hi guys,

I'm a Christian polyamorist (polyfide), (Hebrew roots with a side order of Taoist and Tibetan Buddhist tossed in as well), 12 step ACOA and a polyamorist activist), MBTI type INTJ. As an INTJ I'm very open minded, curious, yet spiritually minded, which seems to be an odd combination. I consider myself omnisexual, but proceed as hetero in this world, since being polyamorist in this world is enough for me to deal with when it comes to dealing with other people, as a strategic move not to be affected by them. <g>. I've been looking on You tube for polyamorists who have experienced NDE's and can't find any there. So I'm coming to the source for help. Have any polyamorists here experienced an NDE? If so, I'd like to hear your story.

Thanks,
Zay
 
Hello Zay,

I don't personally know anyone who had a near-death experience, much less among polyamorists. I did fall off a cliff one time many moons ago, and by all rights should have been killed, but miraculously escaped with nothing worse than a few pulled tendons. I think you're looking for someone who's "been to the other side," though.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Hello Zay,

I don't personally know anyone who had a near-death experience, much less among polyamorists. I did fall off a cliff one time many moons ago, and by all rights should have been killed, but miraculously escaped with nothing worse than a few pulled tendons. I think you're looking for someone who's "been to the other side," though.

Regards,
Kevin T.
Hi Kev,

Actually I've been looking into NDE's recently from all perspectives (again) and discussing both resurrection vs reincarnation with my yoga teacher, within a moksha vs samsara framework, and in this context, Bible vs Bardo Thodol comes up. ( I do know those who have had an NDE, and there seemed to be an Elysian Fields vibe to their stories., which comes from a Greek source and those I interviewed were Irish Catholic.) (Not everyone with an NDE has that vibe to it.) They weren't poly, but I am. I was just curious to hear from any and all who are poly and have experienced such an event. I would personally find that fascinating. I'm sure others would too.

( I've noticed you use "Regards" as your sign off greeting. It's mine too <g>.)

Regards,
Zay
 
Hi Zay,

I find that I relate to you a bit - although I suspect that I am quite a bit older. I identify essentially as Christian-Platonic Gnostic (demythologized) - also INTJ, 12 Step involvement, "spiritual-not religious", plain cis hetero (but with no objection to MFM scenarios), poly (active and well read but not out due to family/social/business concerns).

In my youth, I studied the Bible quite thoroughly but do not place a great deal of stock in it these days - it's merely the literature that the early Christian Church chose to support the theology that was established in the early 4th century Nicene councils ( at the Council of Rome, 382AD) - there were other, better choices that were almost certainly closer to the actual teachings of Jesus.

I've also read the Tibetan Book of the Dead. If you haven't read Raymond Moody's classic books "Life After Life" and "Reflections on Life After Life", you might find them helpful - his works are based on NDE's. You might also want to check out Michael Newton's well regarded "Journey of Souls' and "Destiny of Souls" - based upon hypnotic regression to the "space" between lifetimes.

And, welcome to the group! This very intelligent group was extraordinarily helpful in my transition to poly - although I seldom have time to post these days.

Al
 
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PS.- I'm the firstborn Hero type (COA) child of an alcoholic from a quasi-dysfunctional family. I've always preferred more than one, I always wondered why? Then put two and two together, in several ways, ..... not thinking long to say,"Duh". It was obvious to me as to "why", if not to others. As I see it, I was made this way, as if coming from my home environment didn't make me feel alien enough. At ages 4 and 6 I had surgeries for two separate operations, the second of which was serious. No NDE, but I've been in the Emergency rooms at hospitals under traumatic circumstances many times, and faced the prospect of death myself twice , by processing an array thoughts while in shock, but that's as far as it went. I was pleased to find, that even in tense circumstances where death was a distinct possibly I naturally went zen within the calm chaos and resolved myself to the care of the source of my being that put here in the first place, to whatever end. (That's why I placed my post in the spirituality and polyamory thread, in case you were wondering.) Poly NDE is the only the next step beyond that for me. PSS. I like your site BTW<g>
 
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Hi Zay,

I find that I relate to you a bit - although I suspect that I am quite a bit older. I identify essentially as Christian-Platonic Gnostic (demythologized) - also INTJ, 12 Step involvement, "spiritual-not religious", plain cis hetero (but with no objection to MFM scenarios), poly (active and well read but not out due to family/social/business concerns).

In my youth, I studied the Bible quite thoroughly but do not place a great deal of stock in it these days - it's merely the literature that the early Christian Church chose to support the theology that was established in the early 4th century Nicene councils ( at the Council of Rome, 382AD) - there were other, better choices that were almost certainly closer to the actual teachings of Jesus.

I've also read the Tibetan Book of the Dead. If you haven't read Raymond Moody's classic books "Life After Life" and "Reflections on Life After Life", you might find them helpful - his works are based on NDE's. You might also want to check out Michael Newton's well regarded "Journey of Souls' and "Destiny of Souls" - based upon hypnotic regression to the "space" between lifetimes.

And, welcome to the group! This very intelligent group was extraordinarily helpful in my transition to poly - although I seldom have time to post these days.

Al
Hi Al,

Age means nothing to me, not when you have a "forever" mindset, (like me that is.) We have way more in common than you think. I'm no stranger to MMF triads, I thoroughly love'em, but found them too unstable for my liking. I figure two plus two MMFF could be a more stable form for me and more my speed, since the later equation is more egalitarian. There is no question then that the grouping is polyamorist if not polyfidelic. After monogamy, this time around, I wanted witnesses <g>, and another straight male is just perfect for that. <g> ( my ultimate ideal however is 7m 7f) (Colour me ambitious<g>.) I'm not so much into Thomas or the Ebionites, but I'm very much into John. I told my yoga teacher that the problems I encountered with the Bible were the same that I encountered with the Tibetan Book of the Dead. They possess both jewels of positivity complete with minefields of negativity when one factors in its content and programing. It reminds me of Monty Python's chocolate "Spring Surprise" when the chocolate melts, two bolts spring out and pierce both cheeks. (My spiritual trajectory lies straight to the throne of God, then Beulahland and then Zion, so what have I to with hells or demons or 666 this or tribulation that? I ain't goin' that way.<g>) I'm shooting for moksha not samsara. Thanks for the welcome by the way. Nice meeting you.

Regards,
Zay

(PS. -have I failed to mention that I'm an independent type? I am, and being INTJ I know you are too.)
 
Hi Zay,

I should probably mention that I am a hardcore atheist, and do not believe in an afterlife. I hold out a 1% chance -- or less -- that there is an afterlife. I explain NDE's as most likely the result of blood deprivation to the brain, either in the form of hallucination, or memory alteration, or both. And of course there are probably some that dishonestly pretend to have had an NDE, but I'll grant you that is probably the small minority.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Hi Zay,

I should probably mention that I am a hardcore atheist, and do not believe in an afterlife. I hold out a 1% chance -- or less -- that there is an afterlife. I explain NDE's as most likely the result of blood deprivation to the brain, either in the form of hallucination, or memory alteration, or both. And of course there are probably some that dishonestly pretend to have had an NDE, but I'll grant you that is probably the small minority.

Regards,
Kevin T.

Kevin, the issue with that refutation of the NDE (blood deprivation, etc) is that are numerous documented cases in which the individual experiencing the NDE had the experience of leaving his body and being able to see around the room and outside the room - the result being that in a significant number of documented cases the individual described (in accurate detail) events and surroundings outside his room that it would have been impossible for them to have knowledge of. This scenario obviously is not refuted by the "flood flow" argument (and similar physiological suggested refutations).

And personally, I do not think that religion has anything to do with the afterlife, or the immortality of the soul per se - religion just being an attempt to explain what cannot really be understood with "human intellect". One certainly does not need to subscribe to a religious belief to be convinced of the reality of the survival of consciousness ("soul") after physical death. Just my take, though.

Al
 
I think it's realistic have a physical body and an energetic or astral body, and during NDEs the energetic/astral one moves away from the physical one but retains senses associated with the physical (sight and hearing, especially).I don't believe this is the same as a soul, and I don't think we need religion or even spirituality to acknowledge this as a phenomenon. But I can't claim to have astral travelled in any form, I just tend to be pretty good working with the energy when it is embedded in the physical. Not reiki or any recognisable tantra, but pretty impressive results regardless.
 
Not sure if it counts but a few weeks ago I walked away from a high speed high impact car crash.

The word miracle has been bandied about by the medical teams and everyone who knows about cars.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'd like there to be an afterlife. I don't want to just be snuffed out.
 
I'm sure just about everyone loathes the idea of no afterlife, it is human nature to look for evidence and believe it. I think that's the main reason why religion is so popular, it props up our personal belief with mass belief (and reassurance by authority figures). Some folks can do without religion (or at least without organized religion) and still retain their personal beliefs.

For me, "In a significant number of documented cases the individual described events and surroundings outside his room that it would have been impossible for them to have knowledge of," reads like a tabloid headline, I don't know how to say that without giving offense. I don't believe in Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, or UFO's, and there is a lot of (photographic and anecdotal) evidence of those things. Maybe I should believe, and maybe I'll eventually be proven wrong. But right now I mostly believe what I can see with my own eyes, and understand with my own mind -- a once-animated body that will now eventually decompose. I have never been contacted by a dead person (nor by a dead animal), and that's the evidence that I find convincing.
 
Hi Zay,

I should probably mention that I am a hardcore atheist, and do not believe in an afterlife. I hold out a 1% chance -- or less -- that there is an afterlife. I explain NDE's as most likely the result of blood deprivation to the brain, either in the form of hallucination, or memory alteration, or both. And of course there are probably some that dishonestly pretend to have had an NDE, but I'll grant you that is probably the small minority.

Regards,
Kevin T.
Hi Kev,

I too was an atheist, or rather atheist leaning. (It's a good probability you're an INTJ as well, based on your statements, but then why would I even suggest that?) How would an hallucination or memory of any kind take place when both EEG's and EKG's flatline. Neural function ends, and surely an EEG would pick that activity up otherwise. I'm a Dualist. To me, Materialism is all but debunked from my sources. (Michael Egnor builds a good case demonstrating via clinical experiments of Sperry, Penfield, Owen, Libit, et al, that the brain doesn't explain the human mind, and runs counter to the evidence.) Barfield and Lewis were both ardent atheists and materialists, till Lewis gave it deep thought, on how could his most cherished thoughts, values, morals, and emotions such as joy could be reduced to just atoms colliding in skulls. I tend to agree. There are varied differences in NDE experiences, but they way in, in similarity in clumps such as those those who find themselves walking in a field, or go 'zoom' straight to a source and being enveloped in love. (Even those with an atheistic mindset.)

Reguards,
Zay
 
I'm sure just about everyone loathes the idea of no afterlife, it is human nature to look for evidence and believe it. I think that's the main reason why religion is so popular, it props up our personal belief with mass belief (and reassurance by authority figures). Some folks can do without religion (or at least without organized religion) and still retain their personal beliefs.

For me, "In a significant number of documented cases the individual described events and surroundings outside his room that it would have been impossible for them to have knowledge of," reads like a tabloid headline, I don't know how to say that without giving offense. I don't believe in Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, or UFO's, and there is a lot of (photographic and anecdotal) evidence of those things. Maybe I should believe, and maybe I'll eventually be proven wrong. But right now I mostly believe what I can see with my own eyes, and understand with my own mind -- a once-animated body that will now eventually decompose. I have never been contacted by a dead person (nor by a dead animal), and that's the evidence that I find convincing.
You bring up valid points, Kev. I've never been contacted by a dead person either, nor even dreamed of such a thing, but I did have several deja vouses, and one particular one stands out that did materialize. It was a dream that I, an atheist at the time, had a dream of sitting on a bridge with no water flowing underneath, reading a Bible. Three others were on the bridge, then I woke up and thought it strange that I would reading such a thing. Me? Read a Bible? Why would I? That's what made it so memorable. Then it happened. I had just lost my mom at 16, and was desperate enough to pick up a New Testament to detach, at a meeting place which was a walkway across a ditch. A friend eventually showed up and sat where I saw him in the dream adjacent to me. It hit me, "I've seen this before", and told him of it and of the two others in the dream and where they were standing. What I didn't see, and he did, was those two friends coming up the lane behind me, and when they arrived at the bridge, they stood exactly where I said they would standing. So wtf was that? It opened up some latter research down the road, involving how anyone can see a future event in advance, and how it could be seen unless the future had somehow already happened. Interesting. Huh?
 
I think it's realistic have a physical body and an energetic or astral body, and during NDEs the energetic/astral one moves away from the physical one but retains senses associated with the physical (sight and hearing, especially).I don't believe this is the same as a soul, and I don't think we need religion or even spirituality to acknowledge this as a phenomenon. But I can't claim to have astral travelled in any form, I just tend to be pretty good working with the energy when it is embedded in the physical. Not reiki or any recognisable tantra, but pretty impressive results regardless.
Hi Evie,
I know exactly what you mean. I facilitate the local Tai Chi, Qigong and Tai Chi Chih meetup group. ( Chi or Qi meaning life force energy) (Bio-electrical.) I was also into tantra as was John Humphrey Noyes of the Oneida commune in the 19th century. One of my paramori is an INFJ who is Wiccan. She sees auras, told me mine, I checked it out, and I must say, it was pretty accurate. Anyway, knowing parts of our minds cannot be localized, like personality or intellect, it has to make you wonder when the brain is destroyed at death, where does the mind go, if you understand the laws of thermodynamics.
Reguards,
Zay
 
I'm sure just about everyone loathes the idea of no afterlife, it is human nature to look for evidence and believe it. I think that's the main reason why religion is so popular, it props up our personal belief with mass belief (and reassurance by authority figures). Some folks can do without religion (or at least without organized religion) and still retain their personal beliefs.

For me, "In a significant number of documented cases the individual described events and surroundings outside his room that it would have been impossible for them to have knowledge of," reads like a tabloid headline, I don't know how to say that without giving offense. I don't believe in Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, or UFO's, and there is a lot of (photographic and anecdotal) evidence of those things. Maybe I should believe, and maybe I'll eventually be proven wrong. But right now I mostly believe what I can see with my own eyes, and understand with my own mind -- a once-animated body that will now eventually decompose. I have never been contacted by a dead person (nor by a dead animal), and that's the evidence that I find convincing.
Nancy "rayguns" Reagan (of all people) was once asked if she believed in an afterlife. Her answer was, "Well it can't any more of a miracle than us showing up here in the first place. " That answer stuck with me for some reason.
 
Not sure if it counts but a few weeks ago I walked away from a high speed high impact car crash.

The word miracle has been bandied about by the medical teams and everyone who knows about cars.
One of my (past) brother-mates in a hinge with my current secondary, spent an entire summer re-building a Mustang (aka suicide machine). He's the only guy I know that spun out a car going up a steep hill, ran it up a guide wire, hit the pole, ran it up the wire again, hit the pole again, and by the time it stopped, the car was cut in two, and he walked away without a scratch. I only laughed myself silly, he wondered why. I told him he obviously thought the thing could fly, and if the pole wasn't there, he would have been launched. <g>
 
The hallucinations and memory alterations would take place in the first/final moments before and after the flatlining.

I'm a huge believer in coincidence. With all the incidents that show there is no supernatural, the exceptions naturally stand out. It's called confirmation bias, examining the evidence that seems to support what we want to believe, and disregarding the rest.

I feel bad if I am disrespecting others' experiences, we all experience life in our own way. I am like the Apostle Thomas: I'm only willing to believe when I (personally) feel the prints of the nails, and thrust my hand into Jesus' side. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

Our existence in the first place is certainly wondrous, but I cite billions of years of evolution to explain it. More of a mystery is the Big Bang, and subsequent existence of the universe.
 
No disrespect taken. I'm a very unusual Christian. For me to be and remain objective I can also take a more agnostic perspective. I don't think anyone is lost (and that comes from scripture itself btw. ) I'm more of a skeptic than Shermer and Thomas, however, so I will be checking out (probably not today) about where body consciousness ends, as you say, since I'd rather do some digging than guess. Although I must say, most of my own research suggests detectable and observable patterns on five different levels spread over three communities, also suggesting that randomness (/coincidence) is a rapidly fading notion. (E.g., if you have an acorn, what will it become? The result is predictable from nut to tree. This doesn't show randomness, it suggests teleology, the acorn moves in a focused particular pattern that's observable. It has a purpose and a goal to become an oak tree.) As Paul says, nature itself teaches me that.

It goes way beyond that with me, but that 5 levels x 3 communities is my research grid.

Evolution? No problem between species, as an aid for species to adapt to different environments, that is. But as for the origin of species, well, that's a different story altogether; even Darwin said he had a problem with it, and I'm referring to the development of the eye. For me, I ran into the same problem with inter-species hybrids due to abnormal meiosis. (One of those 'wait a minute' moments.)

Like I said, I don't think ANY of us are lost, no one, NO ONE, not you, not me, not anyone else (and that alone puts me at odds with most of Christianity). If what I'm saying is true, that causes just as many problems, or more, for us in a future context that we'll still have to deal with then. If we can't find our way out of a wet paper bag now, today, what does that say about what we'll be facing when we find out we'll all be living forever?

I go to places where angels fear to tread to do my research. (Don't think so? Read my response to Token2 's car crash comment.<g> )

I'm convinced polyamory will play an enormous role for at least one third of us in the future...and that's from a Christian perspective. One of my (many) projects involving experiments and R&D is following the pathology of many of the social and health problems, specific to us, from the Genetic Level, to the Subconscious Level, down to the Conscious Level (and believe me, that's fascinating.)

Coincidence? I don't think so, not for the lion's share of what I'm observing from my perch.

As for the Big Bang, I'm with you there, but the Webb observation of six early galaxies 10 times larger than ours is throwing monkey wrenches into current models, which may put Steady State back on the drawing broad. What are you seeing from your perspective?
 
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Coincidence isn't the same thing as randomness, although I'm not sure whether (on some subatomic level) there is such a thing as true randomness. My working theory about the origin of the universe is that it itself was an enormous coincidence. That is, it just happened. But if I have any doubts about my atheist beliefs, that's where they lie.

We look at one remarkable incident and think, "Gosh, that kind of proves the supernatural." But what about all the unremarkable incidents? Shouldn't we be examining them and drawing conclusions from them? What about the many times when I've slept and dreamed and the dream didn't foretell anything?
 
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