Quad Poly relationship going downhill!

PolyNurse

New member
Hi there!

I am currently involved in what started out as an excellent Quad relationship. My husband (P) and myself (L) have been married for 27 years and we became best friends with (B) & (S) who have been together for 25 years. When we all met (B) & (S) were sleeping in separate bedrooms but had a good relationship. We have known each other since 2014. Neither couple was poly before this….we were all just really bored with our spouses. I decided last year to go to nurse practitioner school full time and needed to quit my nursing job and because my husband is in maintenance and we would have to live on his salary, we decided to move into our travel camper for two years while I completed school. We told our friends about it and they insisted we come and live with them in their 4 bedroom house as roommates. We decided to give the poly lifestyle a try around 2 months in. My husband (P) initiated the relationship and wanted us all to have another sex partner with absolutely no strings attached and stated that from the very beginning.

Unfortunately 9 months later, the following has occurred:

(L) and (S) are both madly in love with each other (we are twin flame soul mates). We are intellectuals with a love for body building, quiet conversations at coffee shops, event planning, shopping, etc. We both sit all day long at a desk so we like to work out in the evenings together (1-2 hours) and then spend the entire day together on Saturday’s, running around until exhausted. He truly is the one I should have been with all along.

(B) wants to be in love with (P), but (P) won’t allow it. (B) and (P) both have very active jobs and basically come home every night and hit the couch. Saturday’s are more resting for them, watching movies, football games and lots of sex.

Now…..

(P) loves (L) because we have been together for so long and has decided that even though he enjoys quiet times with (B) and sex with her (sometimes twice daily), he has become very jealous of (S) & (L) because we have developed a very special mental connection and would rather sit and talk for hours, than have sex. (P) does not like this relationship and says that I can f#ck (S), but I can’t talk to him about deep matters. Wth? :confused:

Although they have been married for 25 years, (B) and (S) are basically married roommates and do not have a sexual relationship so their focus is on us.

We all spend evenings together watching TV, Saturday's with our secondaries and Sunday’s together hiking, bowling, house cleaning, etc. We spend every other night with our Primary spouses (sleeping). We do not have any children in the house to complicate things.

At this point (P) has threatened to leave several times and has spent a few nights alone in the camper in an effort to control how emotionally deep we become involved in each others lives…..mainly (L) and (S). We are basically afraid to show each other affection in front of (P) because he holds it against us when we get into petty arguments. He tells everyone in the house that he does not have a problem with our affection and has lots of sex with (B), but likes to “exercise” control over the others. (P) has demanded that I leave the situation and live alone with him, resorting to tears and angry outbursts. He says that he regrets our poly relationship and wishes that we could go back to the old days when it was just him and I. I have told him no on numerous occasions that I am not interested in leaving. (B) and (S) have both told me that they want me to stay in school and live with them if (P) decides to leave. Every time (P) gets mad and threatens to leave because I am getting too close to (S) or (B) gets to close to him, (B) and I both get upset with horrible stomach aches and spend literally days crying. I recently told (P) that if he threatens to leave again, he should have his bag packed and be ready to walk out the door.

The three of us…..(B), (S) & (L) believe that this can all work out and have said from the beginning that (P) is just stubborn and wants control. He shuts down at the drop of a hat and won’t openly communicate with us. The tension is really bad at this point and no one really knows what is going to happen to our union. (P) has said some horrible things to me (he loves me but doesn't like me much), that I don’t even feel like being intimate with him, which is ok with (B) since they have sex a lot and she is not intimate with her husband.

Although my relationship with (P) was tolerable in the past (non affectionate) and based solely on sex, my relationship with (S) completes me in so many ways. I used to think it was NRE but there are too many things that just click with us. We finish each others sentences, we think identically, we like the same things, we text each other at the same exact time, we feel each others pain. We have the same exact autoimmune condition, which I manage (for both of us) homeopathically. I could easily live alone with him but I know that his wife needs him financially and he feels obligated to provide for her. She is very supportive of our relationship and just wants to be taken care of and I want to take care of her. She has no attraction to him at all and we have talked about us all buying a house together after school is finished. She puts no limitations on us. She has no rules for us to follow. We are completely free…..until my husband comes home and then we ALL walk on eggshells.

So at this point in my life, I am thinking that “I am a grown ass woman” and should be able to make my own decisions about whom I love and want to spend my time with. I am resentful of a man who shows me very little attention and then tries to control the affections of a man who I desperately need and want.

Thoughts?
 
I am sorry you struggle.

I recently told (P) that if he threatens to leave again, he should have his bag packed and be ready to walk out the door.

He sounds like he's been raining verbal abuse and tantrums on everyone in the home. Why have none of you asked P to go move to the camper and not come back to the house?

Have YOU considered breaking up with P and being the one to "leave" the marriage?

You sound like you are done riding the emotional rollercoaster and don't want to deal with his controlling attitude any more. B & L seem willing to make a life with just you.

(Or would B want to keep on with P as sex partners? )

(P) loves (L) because we have been together for so long

I don't see where you mention that L (you) loves P (your husband). Did I miss it? :confused:

(P) has said some horrible things to me (he loves me but doesn't like me much)

I don't see how someone can love you and not actually like you. Do you mean he loves having power/control OVER you? :confused:

So at this point in my life, I am thinking that “I am a grown ass woman” and should be able to make my own decisions about whom I love and want to spend my time with. I am resentful of a man who shows me very little attention and then tries to control the affections of a man who I desperately need and want.

Sounds like you are done with P.

I think you could break up with him and end this drama rather than dragging it out.

Galagirl
 
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Thanks for your reply

Comments below in red. :)

Have YOU considered breaking up with P and being the one to "leave?" And remaining as B, L, S in the house? Asking him to go move to the camper and not come back? He sounds like he's raining verbal abuse and tantrums on everyone in the home.

You sound like you are done riding the emotional rollercoaster and don't want to deal with his controlling attitude any more.


I have suggested he stay at the camper, which is basically all of our summer home but he says that he does not want to take that from us since we all enjoy it so much.


I don't see where you mention that L loves P. Did I miss it? :confused:

I do love (P) and have a hard time seeing him out of my life but he is unemotional and shows me very little attention. I could very easily live with him in the same house but be divorced from him emotionally. It's sad but it's where I am at right now.

I don't see how someone can love you and not actually like you. Do you mean he loves having power/control OVER you? :confused:

He told me recently that I was controlling and manipulative because I want to be physically loved. I want romance and dates and quiet talks at the coffee shop. I want hugs and kisses and told that I am desired. He wants to sit and watch TV. He told me recently that there are things about my personality that he actually hates. :(

Sounds like you are done with P.

So... break up with him and end this drama.

I have been with him for so long.....it is so hard to let go even though I know it would be best for me.

Galagirl
 
I have suggested he stay at the camper, which is basically all of our summer home but he says that he does not want to take that from us since we all enjoy it so much.

Wonky seeming logic. I don't see how much you guys are gonna love being in a summer home camper together when your non-vacaton home together is "walking on eggshells" all the time.

When he's at work, how about moving his stuff to the camper and change the locks on the house with B and L's help? Sometimes one must physically separate in order for mental/emotional separation to catch up.

I do love (P) and have a hard time seeing him out of my life but he is unemotional and shows me very little attention. I could very easily live with him in the same house but be divorced from him emotionally. It's sad but it's where I am at right now.

Sounds like you don't love him any more. You are sad about that. But the bottom line is still that you would prefer a platonic roomie thing at most if he was pleasant to get along with. But he's NOT pleasant to get along with... so maybe you don't even want that roomie thing.

He told me recently that I was controlling and manipulative because I want to be physically loved. I want romance and dates and quiet talks at the coffee shop. I want hugs and kisses and told that I am desired. He wants to sit and watch TV. He told me recently that there are things about my personality that he actually hates.

Sounds like he knows it is not a match. But flips it around on you rather than admit it.

So why do YOU continue to be with him? What is in it for you?

  • He doesn't want to do the "physically loved" things with you.
  • He doesn't like you.
  • There things about your personality that he hates.
  • He is an awful roomie right now hurling verbal abuse around.
  • He threatens to leave and makes you cry. But doesn't actually leave. (Which makes it sound like he gets off on cruelty and sticks around to get to do it again. )

Where is the pleasure in all this for you? :(

You do not exist to be his emotional punching bag.

I have been with him for so long.....it is so hard to let go even though I know it would be best for me.

Understandable. Spending 27 yrs together is a long time. At the same time? If it has run its course, it has run its course. :(

  • Could part ways physically. So home life can be quite and restful healing space and not war zone.
    • So you can become able to mourn the loss (emotionally and mentally) and finally heal rather than heal and hurt again, heal and hurt again.
      • So you can then become able to actually move forward and on into your new life.

Otherwise you are riding the merry-go-round. Same old song. Different day. That's not sounding good or healthy for anybody here. :(

How can forum people help you?

Galagirl
 
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You will get more responses if you choose nicknames for your quad mates. P, your husband, I will call Peter, as I respond. You are L, therefore Laura. Your bf is S, Steve. His wife is B, let's call her Betty.

So, you, Laura, are in a failing marriage with Peter. You two have grown apart, and have little in common. You do watch TV, go bowling, enjoy camping, and house cleaning together.

Steve and Betty have a non-sexual but working relationship. She enjoys sex with Peter. You and Steve don't seem to have as much sex as the other couple, but it's OK since you agree on so many things. Maybe you both have average to low sex drives, and that is fine with you.

Your huband Peter has a high sex drive (at least now, during NRE), but he sounds threatened by being really polyAMOROUS. The rest of you are polyamorous, but Peter is merely polysexual, and is being a brat when anyone want to show real affection.

It sounds like you two moved in with Steve and Betty out of convenience, rather too soon, before actual dating had begun. A platonic relationship turned sexual, almost by accident, and so now troubles have come up. The quad arrangement shined a spotlight on the issues you and Peter had, that you may have been unaware of.

His objection to moving by himself into the camper sounds lame. Unless you are in the southern hemisphere, it's not summer vacation time anyway. I think, like GG said, he is getting off on yelling at all of you and being a controlling brat. He is jealous of course, of your relationship with Steve. Some people are OK with sex no feelings, other are OK with feelings no sex. If this doesn't match your needs, you could tell him it's over, you want him to move out, it doesn't matter if the camper is supposed to be a vacation home for everyone, who wants to go on vacation with all the mismatched needs?

Even Betty is getting lots of sex, but she wants love too... and Peter can't or won't provide that. So her needs are not being met.

This all sounds like one failed marriage, and a V developing between you and Steve and Betty. Betty should probably give up on Peter and go find a bf who can provide sex AND love. Or at least fondness. I can relate. I can't have sex with some purely from physical attraction. I need to like or love their personality!
 
It's funny because most of the time we work so well together as a group and then other times (not every day), Peter gets these wild hairs up his ass and starts spying on Steve and I even though he is doing the same exact thing with Betty! He asked us recently to give up our Saturday's together under the "premise" of unifying the group (let's all go!), however, I know that he is only willing to "run errands" because it will keep Steve and I apart. He plays these stupid games. Of course I said no....so he has to pout for a couple of days and ignore everyone in the house. Eats meals up in his room or not at all, etc.

I don't think anyone is willing to ask him to leave yet but if he leaves on his own, we will not prevent him. I just don't know how to stop this abnormal behavior and get him to relax and accept the relationships that are growing in the house.

P.S. I don't think the camper is an option for him because it is owned by all of us and we all pay for the lot fees and resort membership together. Three of us would have to pull out and he would have to finance the camper and lot by himself. The resort is open all year around but has limited amenities in the winter because of the cold.
 
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What's so ironic about this whole thing is that when Peter and Betty started sleeping together, I had this major meltdown because I was cheated on by my first husband with my best friend. It felt like the same thing in my subconscious but I got through the initial act (and many others) with repeated exposure to their open relationship, I dealt with my jealousy issues and Peter insisted that I do so. I did and started working on my own relationship with Steve. Now that Steve and I are having both emotional and physical sex (he had some male issues that I had to help him through), all of a sudden....here comes the jealousy, spying, rules, demands, anger and threats to leave.

Why now? Why not 9 months ago?
 
I just don't know how to stop this abnormal behavior and get him to relax and accept the relationships that are growing in the house.

You cannot make him do anything about his behavior. His behavior is for him to control. You CAN ask him things.

  • You could ask him if he's willing to stop hurling temper tantrums/verbal abuse at people. He can answer "yes" or "no."
  • You could ask him if he is willing to accept the relationships growing in the house. He can answer "yes" or "no."
  • You could ask him if he's willing to see a counselor. He can answer "yes" or "no."

If he does not agree to control himself better and continues to be a bad roomie? You could determine what the consequence that YOU can do is.

  • Does that mean YOU ASK HIM to move to the camper for X weeks to give everyone a break and time to think about next steps?
  • Or YOU CHOOSE to move out to the camper to give people a break and time to think about next steps?

However it happens, I think you guys need a time out from each other. Because continuing living together like this is not healthy. Not for you, Peter, or anyone else. Chronic tantrums, mind games, spying, and so on. :(

I don't think the camper is an option for him because it is owned by all of us and we all pay for the lot fees and resort membership together. Three of us would have to pull out and he would have to finance the camper and lot by himself. The resort is open all year around but has limited amenities in the winter because of the cold.

I don't think it has to be a huge deal for a few weeks "time out" so people can stop living in a volatile environment and figure out next steps from cooler heads. If it were me, I'd be willing to keep chipping in on the camper/lot just to get a break for a few weeks and figure out next steps without bombs going off at home every few moments.

The original plan was for you and him to live in a camper for two years. I think he can figure out how to deal with limited amenities in winter just as you guys would have if you had lived in it as a couple.

If this becomes more than a "time out" separation, he can figure out how to find an apartment.

I am confused by the excuse making. Could I ask something? Is that you talking? Or Peter talking? Like this was his reason for not doing so and you are repeating it back?
  • First it was how he couldn't move out to the camper for a time out because it would be taking the summer vacation home away from everyone. (It's nowhere near summer.)
  • Now he cannot live it in for a few weeks time out because it has limited winter amenities. (Well, you were gonna deal with that when the plan was to live there together. So... why is that an issue now?)

If the camper is unacceptable, one of you could stay in a hotel or with family or friends, right? It isn't so much where you go, but that you start working on this problem. Taking a time out so you can think from cooler heads doesn't seem like a bad first step to problem solving to me.

Is it a bad thing to him? He relies on keeping you rattled?

ROOMIE SITUATION:

It's sounding like nobody is happy here, and you would all be relieved if Peter decided to leave on his own. But nobody is willing to be the first one to speak up. Why not? What are you guys avoiding? :confused:

DYING MARRIAGE SITUATION:

I have been with him for so long.....it is so hard to let go even though I know it would be best for me.

It sounds like you are working toward final acceptance that parting ways on the marriage would be best for you.

Could you benefit from counseling? What do you need to move forward? I posted this on another thread, but in case it helps you.

http://www.uptoparents.org/files/english/documents/finishingthegrievingutpparents.pdf

Galagirl
 
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Could I ask something? Is that you talking? Or Peter talking? Like this was his reason for not doing so and you are repeating it back?

During our last big blow up where I was asking him to just go with the flow.....he came back and said he couldn't "do this" any more and wanted to leave but had no where to go. I told him that the camper is always an option if he felt trapped in the relationship and reminded him that we were going to live there at one point and make it work. I think he doesn't want to be alone but he doesn't want to cooperate with the group either. Maybe he feels weak if he gives in?

The original plan was for you and him to live in a camper for two years. I think he can figure out how to deal with limited amenities in winter just as you guys would have if you had lived in it as a couple. Or he can start there and find an apartment later on if this becomes more than a "time out" separation.

People live at the resort all year around....they just have to drive up the hill to use the restrooms and shower. It's an inconvenience but completely doable with the right concessions. I have thought about going there myself but the roomies won't let me and husband has our only vehicle since I am in school full time. I would basically be stuck in the mountains with no vehicle.

I don't think it has to be a huge deal for a few weeks "time out" so people can stop living in a volatile environment and figure out next steps from cooler heads.

I will talk with the others and see if we can all suggest this as a way for all of us to cope. I have suggested counseling but Peter is not willing.

It's sounding like nobody is happy here, and you would all be relieved if Peter decided to leave on his own. But nobody is willing to be the first one to speak up. Why not? What are you guys avoiding?

Betty is hesitant to ask him to leave because she likes having sex with him, even though it is unemotional. Steve won't ask Peter to leave because they have become brother-husbands. Maybe if I suggest that it be temporary to clear our heads, they might reconsider.
 
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During our last big blow up where I was asking him to just go with the flow.....he came back and said he couldn't "do this" any more and wanted to leave but had no where to go. I told him that the camper is always an option if he felt trapped in the relationship and reminded him that we were going to live there at one point and make it work. I think he doesn't want to be alone but he doesn't want to cooperate with the group either. Maybe he feels weak if he gives in?

Maybe he's mourning the end of his marriage. We could spend all day guessing what he's feeling. The only one who knows is him.

I think you could be radically honest with him.

"Look, things are not working out. You want out of this quad. I want to stay. So we probably need to talk about breaking up. That makes me sad. I can imagine that makes you sad. We've been together 27 years. It was not something either one of us bargained for here or thought about. But it is here. And we need to talk about it. I prefer to take a time out to think. Then later talk about it calmly and respectfully. Are you willing and able to do that?"​

People live at the resort all year around....they just have to drive up the hill to use the restrooms and shower. It's an inconvenience but completely doable with the right concessions. I have thought about going there myself but the roomies won't let me and husband has our only vehicle since I am in school full time. I would basically be stuck in the mountains with no vehicle.

Well, if you are willing to be the one to go to the camper, ask for the car.

Or see if you can rent one so you are not stranded up there and can do your school stuff.

Keep moving things forward. Don't be keeping it in the stuck. It doesn't sound great for anyone like that.

Betty is hesitant to ask him to leave because she likes having sex with him, even though it is unemotional. Steve won't ask Peter to leave because they have become brother-husbands. Maybe if I suggest that it be temporary to clear our heads, they might reconsider.

Let me repeat that back in my own words so I know I got it how you meant it.

  • Peter is enduring a situation he wants to leave. Betty won't encourage him to go and live healthier because Betty wants to get laid.

  • Peter is enduring a situation he wants to leave. Steve loves his brother husband so much that he wants Peter to stay in a situation that hurts Peter.

I could be wrong, but both of those reasons sound messed up. To me it sounds like nobody wants to be "the bad guy" or something and make up excuses.

The (You + Peter) relationship is between you and Peter. If you need to be apart for a "time out" to cool off and become able to work out what to do about the marriage ? You can do that. You can ask that of him without Betty and Steve's permission.

I have suggested counseling but Peter is not willing.

You can seek counseling for just yourself so you have support through this stressy situation.

I am thinking that “I am a grown ass woman” and should be able to make my own decisions

You are a grown ass woman. You can make your own decisions.

It sounds like in this situation you have to step up and take leadership and get this thing sorted once and for all. Everyone else is just sitting around meekly (Betty and Steve) or flailing about (Peter) and nobody is getting any relief.

I encourage you to move it forward.

Galagirl
 
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Truthfully, I am hoping that he just gives up and let's us all live the way 3 of us want to or he just decides to leave. This is so mentally exhausting for us all.

I have noticed a trend with him though. Days and even weeks will go by and he seems like he is in a good mood, enjoying the group, margarita night, going out to dinner, etc. Then he starts spying, thinking and making small demands here and there. When I finally put my foot down and refuse to allow him to control me, he blows up and takes out his notebook of things he has "observed" for a couple of weeks. I get the laundry list of what he doesn't like.

How do I stop this?
 
Totally agree with your assessment of the situation.

So, you, Laura, are in a failing marriage with Peter. You two have grown apart, and have little in common. You do watch TV, go bowling, enjoy camping, and house cleaning together.

Steve and Betty have a non-sexual but working relationship. She enjoys sex with Peter. You and Steve don't seem to have as much sex as the other couple, but it's OK since you agree on so many things. Maybe you both have average to low sex drives, and that is fine with you.

Your huband Peter has a high sex drive (at least now, during NRE), but he sounds threatened by being really polyAMOROUS. The rest of you are polyamorous, but Peter is merely polysexual, and is being a brat when anyone want to show real affection.

It sounds like you two moved in with Steve and Betty out of convenience, rather too soon, before actual dating had begun. A platonic relationship turned sexual, almost by accident, and so now troubles have come up. The quad arrangement shined a spotlight on the issues you and Peter had, that you may have been unaware of.

His objection to moving by himself into the camper sounds lame. Unless you are in the southern hemisphere, it's not summer vacation time anyway. I think, like GG said, he is getting off on yelling at all of you and being a controlling brat. He is jealous of course, of your relationship with Steve. Some people are OK with sex no feelings, other are OK with feelings no sex. If this doesn't match your needs, you could tell him it's over, you want him to move out, it doesn't matter if the camper is supposed to be a vacation home for everyone, who wants to go on vacation with all the mismatched needs?

Even Betty is getting lots of sex, but she wants love too... and Peter can't or won't provide that. So her needs are not being met.

This all sounds like one failed marriage, and a V developing between you and Steve and Betty. Betty should probably give up on Peter and go find a bf who can provide sex AND love. Or at least fondness. I can relate. I can't have sex with some purely from physical attraction. I need to like or love their personality!
 
Truthfully, I am hoping that he just gives up and let's us all live the way 3 of us want to or he just decides to leave. This is so mentally exhausting for us all.

I'm sorry this is mentally exhausting.

If you want this to stop, I think you have to be the one to ask him to leave. If he won't go, or you are unwilling to ask?

YOU just go then. Get the "time out" that is needed one way or another.

I have noticed a trend with him though. Days and even weeks will go by and he seems like he is in a good mood, enjoying the group, margarita night, going out to dinner, etc. Then he starts spying, thinking and making small demands here and there. When I finally put my foot down and refuse to allow him to control me, he blows up and takes out his notebook of things he has "observed" for a couple of weeks. I get the laundry list of what he doesn't like.

How do I stop this?

You keep putting your foot down. You are in charge of your behaviors. He is in charge of his.

If he has a list of complaints? AGREE.

"Yes. We do not match any more. I see from your long list that you can see it too.

We may need to part ways. I think one of us should move to the camper so we can have a time out to really think all that over before we do anything. Do you want to go or shall I?"​

Don't get sucked into blame games or circle conversation that go round and round. Just cut to the chase and create the needed "time out" space so you can rest and not be mentally exhausted and can consider next steps from a cooler, clearer head.

Stop living with him for while. He cannot spy on you even if he wanted to. See what living life free of these behaviors is like.

Then make your next decisions after that.

Galagirl
 
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Hi PolyNurse,

I suggest you file for divorce even if there's not a clear way for Peter to move out right away. At least that way the symbolic link between you and Peter is severed.

Do Steve and Betty have a car? I am just wondering.

Peter's intermittent behavior is ridiculous and you shouldn't have to put up with it.

Regards and sympathy,
Kevin T.
 
Rereading the first post, the thoughts occur to me that
  • polyamory is not something you can just "try on" like a different shoe style
  • polyamory is a lousy way to fix a troubled relationship (like the "bored with our spouses" part)
  • polyamory sucks for people who suck at communication
  • polyamory sucks for people who suck at self-awareness
  • polyamory sucks for people who suck at problem solving
It might simply not be a lifestyle that's suitable for you. Or it might be suitable for you, just not with these people. Or it might be suitable for you, but with every last bit of couple-orientated thinking scrubbed out.
 
When I finally put my foot down and refuse to allow him to control me, he blows up and takes out his notebook of things he has "observed" for a couple of weeks. I get the laundry list of what he doesn't like.

How do I stop this?
Stick your fingers in your ears and "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA" as loudly as you can!
 
Our Quad relationship has finally ended. On to the next Triad adventure. :)
 
I suppose it's for the best, but I'm still sorry it ended. I am assuming Peter left, that would make the most sense.
 
I'm sorry to hear of a break up. At the same time, it sounded needed because it wasn't working out as a quad.

I'm not sure which on left, but for those that remain I hope it works out more smoothly.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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