Hi,
I am in a situation where I'm having difficulties assessing my situation and I thought maybe a bunch of strangers from the internet with dubious credentials might be the right crowd to give me some feedback.
Context: I'm married. We have been together for nearly 20 years now. We have three kids, from preschooler to early teen. One of them is very heavily neurospicy, which brings a lot of challenges most other families do not have to deal with. We have had many months, if not years, balancing on the edge of catastrophe. One consequence of which is us going on dates with each other is extremely rare (two in the last 10 months or so).
I’m late-diagnosed ADHDer, with all the various traumas associated. She is definitely also neurospicy, although not officially diagnosed, and unclear exactly what. She has had some terrible childhood traumas resulting in various issues with anxiety.
Very early in our relationship, she found out that she wanted what we now know is a form of polyamory, and in principle I was fine with it. For various reasons, a lot of years passed without anything actually happening, until approx. 5 years ago I became active and started dating. I will not go into the difficulties she had and the work both of us had to do in order to make it work. For reasons that have nothing to do with me, she did not date. (She could not find anyone who also wanted her, is maybe an accurate summary.) She had several good friends ghosting her when they realized she loved them and they would have to share her. Also, there was an affair with someone in a mono relationship which, as you might imagine, did not go well.
After all these years, she finally managed to free herself from a lot of mostly self-imposed limitations and started exploring a new hobby complex related to music, dancing and related forms of expressions. I have absolutely no connection to this scene. It is something she does for herself. I find it wonderful, although it certainly does not help with the general challenges we face as a family, organization-wise. (And I very much wish I could share that with her.)
A few weeks ago, she met someone from this scene and fell in love, head-over-heels. As this is the first time I have to deal with this and learn how to let go, I deal with a lot of jealousy and pain, but am absolutely willing to work through it. I never made a secret that this is what would happen if she started dating someone, or falling in love with them. I communicated very clearly what I can deal with, and what kind of time I need in order to feel my emotions, sort them, and work through them.
That dude was never part of any kind of non-exclusive relationship. He is single. Him falling head-over-heels for my wife, and not having any prior experience certainly complicates things.
One of the (temporary) boundaries I communicated was that I certainly would meet him *when I am ready*. Meeting him while my insides are a tornado of conflicting emotions like compersion, jealousy, anxiety, excitement, hurt, joy, etc., would not be very productive. My emotional reaction was “Hell no, not yet."
After exactly 17 days of that relationship the status was this:
- They had 5 dates, not including the four days on a workshop they spent together, where they met and danced through three nights.
- They met more or less every time it was possible. Her working shifts meant out of 17 evenings she spent 3 with us (me and the kids).
- My wife and I did have our last date two months ago, none scheduled.
- I had said “no” once, to her staying overnight after a date where they danced for something like 5 hours. This was the only time I said “no” because of my emotional situation. I said “no” to one other proposition for the week after that, because the kids were starting to ask why mommy is never home, if she doesn’t love them anymore, and if she is leaving them.
- I told her that I am trying my best to give them the space to start this relationship, since she was in an absolute panic it might fail if she could not see him as often as possible (fear of loss resulting of the childhood trauma). However, this tempo and intensity was too much for me and I need them to dial it down a bit, so that I can actually catch up, in order to be able to let go more and honestly say "yes."
- They constantly pushed against many of my boundaries, often inappropriately, sometimes by just asking why something was off limits or similar.
This was apparently reason enough for him to say that he cannot endure this kind of relationship, where he is subjected to my capriciousness and his dependency on me. He needed a better perspective, and if not, the relationship would be over. The only thing that might give him hope would be me meeting him soon. My wife made clear what a catastrophe that would be for her, and that she would have to drop this new hobby and everything that makes her happy if this relationship ends. She also did not object when I said that I don’t feel free to say no, because she would surely make me responsible for ending her relationship and taking away everything that makes her happy. So I said yes, although I would need a little time to find some time in our calendar for that meeting.
That was a Sunday. My gf visited us on Tuesday. In the evening, I met someone for an explicitly non-date which turned into a spectacular yes-date, which helped to put me in a better place. So I agreed to meet him Wednesday the following week, and said I could live with her meeting him on Friday.
Friday evening I was then told that, after deliberation, he did not see this meeting as mandatory anymore, because “He saw that I was willing and able to move my position." I was a bit pissed off, because that sounded quite overbearing or patronizing. (English is not my first language, as you surely have surmised at this point.)
Nevertheless, I said that I spent the last 6 days getting at least a little comfortable with the thought of meeting him, although this meant he violently negated one of my important boundaries. At that point, it turned out they were talking about a meeting including all three of us. I made clear that I am very uncomfortable with that scenario, because that would surely feel like two against one (since they wanted me to loosen my boundaries, which I would have to defend against two), a situation that I deal poorly with, given me being mobbed for all my school time and way before and beyond.
Plus, I saw the distinct possibility of this ending in a shit show, because, instead of getting to know each other and talking through our differences, we would probably fight in order to win over the audience (her). So the meeting did not happen, because he did not see any sense in meeting me alone.
So, I was in a very bad place, feeling manipulated and violated by both of them, without knowing exactly who was responsible for which part of what happened. My head was absolutely full of red flags about this relationship, because I felt I was not given time to work through my jealousy and other negative emotions so that I can feel the positive ones and be able to emphatically and freely say “yes." I felt blackmailed and manipulated. It did not feel as if my boundaries and needs were respected, let alone accepted.
And then, I saw a text he had written her. (I know this sounds fishy, but it was actually an innocent accident.) In this message he said: “I can definitely say that he is not in emotional pain. He knows your predicament, and he is a sadist and manipulator who takes away your freedom in order to exert power over you.”
Panic and poor impulse control kicked in and I read parts of a second, much later text which was in the same vein, before I could stop myself.
This was pretty much the killing blow for me.
She, however, still sees him as an absolutely great guy, and is mostly just angry that I read the messages. She claims no one is perfect, and he would certainly stop saying such things if she told him to. I was shocked that she had not done that already. I cannot see any indication for him not being a manipulative cowboy if he would then stop saying such things. He would be very stupid and incompetent if he continued. Plus, she is furious, because, allegedly, I don’t trust in her judgement if I think these words could sway her opinion of me, regardless of the fact that I do not actually think that.
I do not want someone in my life who talks like that about me behind my back, much less from such a position. I do not think that any open or poly arrangement can work if one partner (much less the new one) does not respect that arrangement, the boundaries of one or both of the other people, and actively tries to sabotage the other relationship(s). And if he’s not actively sabotaging and manipulating, simply harboring (and expressing) such opinions, making such judgements against someone you don’t know after two weeks just because you can’t get everything you wish for, because that person transparently communicates their boundaries, is such a red flag for me that I don’t see a way where I can be ok with that relationship.
In reaction, I was told a lot of horrible things about me, our relationship and that my not accepting that relationship demonstrates that I am fundamentally unsuitable for poly, that this shows that nobody would ever be good enough for me.
I have a bit of a doubt about that, not because I am such a moral high-rider, but mostly because of all 6 women I have dated in the last years, all had to endure much tighter restrictions (at least in the first two weeks), and not one ever questioned or worked against any boundary set, let alone talked shit about my wife for having these boundaries which restricted us.
One important detail: he is 58 (20 years her elder), which makes me think his words are much more calculated than those of a lovesick 25 year old.
Please tell me where I am wrong so that I can find a way to be ok with this situation.
I am in a situation where I'm having difficulties assessing my situation and I thought maybe a bunch of strangers from the internet with dubious credentials might be the right crowd to give me some feedback.
Context: I'm married. We have been together for nearly 20 years now. We have three kids, from preschooler to early teen. One of them is very heavily neurospicy, which brings a lot of challenges most other families do not have to deal with. We have had many months, if not years, balancing on the edge of catastrophe. One consequence of which is us going on dates with each other is extremely rare (two in the last 10 months or so).
I’m late-diagnosed ADHDer, with all the various traumas associated. She is definitely also neurospicy, although not officially diagnosed, and unclear exactly what. She has had some terrible childhood traumas resulting in various issues with anxiety.
Very early in our relationship, she found out that she wanted what we now know is a form of polyamory, and in principle I was fine with it. For various reasons, a lot of years passed without anything actually happening, until approx. 5 years ago I became active and started dating. I will not go into the difficulties she had and the work both of us had to do in order to make it work. For reasons that have nothing to do with me, she did not date. (She could not find anyone who also wanted her, is maybe an accurate summary.) She had several good friends ghosting her when they realized she loved them and they would have to share her. Also, there was an affair with someone in a mono relationship which, as you might imagine, did not go well.
After all these years, she finally managed to free herself from a lot of mostly self-imposed limitations and started exploring a new hobby complex related to music, dancing and related forms of expressions. I have absolutely no connection to this scene. It is something she does for herself. I find it wonderful, although it certainly does not help with the general challenges we face as a family, organization-wise. (And I very much wish I could share that with her.)
A few weeks ago, she met someone from this scene and fell in love, head-over-heels. As this is the first time I have to deal with this and learn how to let go, I deal with a lot of jealousy and pain, but am absolutely willing to work through it. I never made a secret that this is what would happen if she started dating someone, or falling in love with them. I communicated very clearly what I can deal with, and what kind of time I need in order to feel my emotions, sort them, and work through them.
That dude was never part of any kind of non-exclusive relationship. He is single. Him falling head-over-heels for my wife, and not having any prior experience certainly complicates things.
One of the (temporary) boundaries I communicated was that I certainly would meet him *when I am ready*. Meeting him while my insides are a tornado of conflicting emotions like compersion, jealousy, anxiety, excitement, hurt, joy, etc., would not be very productive. My emotional reaction was “Hell no, not yet."
After exactly 17 days of that relationship the status was this:
- They had 5 dates, not including the four days on a workshop they spent together, where they met and danced through three nights.
- They met more or less every time it was possible. Her working shifts meant out of 17 evenings she spent 3 with us (me and the kids).
- My wife and I did have our last date two months ago, none scheduled.
- I had said “no” once, to her staying overnight after a date where they danced for something like 5 hours. This was the only time I said “no” because of my emotional situation. I said “no” to one other proposition for the week after that, because the kids were starting to ask why mommy is never home, if she doesn’t love them anymore, and if she is leaving them.
- I told her that I am trying my best to give them the space to start this relationship, since she was in an absolute panic it might fail if she could not see him as often as possible (fear of loss resulting of the childhood trauma). However, this tempo and intensity was too much for me and I need them to dial it down a bit, so that I can actually catch up, in order to be able to let go more and honestly say "yes."
- They constantly pushed against many of my boundaries, often inappropriately, sometimes by just asking why something was off limits or similar.
This was apparently reason enough for him to say that he cannot endure this kind of relationship, where he is subjected to my capriciousness and his dependency on me. He needed a better perspective, and if not, the relationship would be over. The only thing that might give him hope would be me meeting him soon. My wife made clear what a catastrophe that would be for her, and that she would have to drop this new hobby and everything that makes her happy if this relationship ends. She also did not object when I said that I don’t feel free to say no, because she would surely make me responsible for ending her relationship and taking away everything that makes her happy. So I said yes, although I would need a little time to find some time in our calendar for that meeting.
That was a Sunday. My gf visited us on Tuesday. In the evening, I met someone for an explicitly non-date which turned into a spectacular yes-date, which helped to put me in a better place. So I agreed to meet him Wednesday the following week, and said I could live with her meeting him on Friday.
Friday evening I was then told that, after deliberation, he did not see this meeting as mandatory anymore, because “He saw that I was willing and able to move my position." I was a bit pissed off, because that sounded quite overbearing or patronizing. (English is not my first language, as you surely have surmised at this point.)
Nevertheless, I said that I spent the last 6 days getting at least a little comfortable with the thought of meeting him, although this meant he violently negated one of my important boundaries. At that point, it turned out they were talking about a meeting including all three of us. I made clear that I am very uncomfortable with that scenario, because that would surely feel like two against one (since they wanted me to loosen my boundaries, which I would have to defend against two), a situation that I deal poorly with, given me being mobbed for all my school time and way before and beyond.
Plus, I saw the distinct possibility of this ending in a shit show, because, instead of getting to know each other and talking through our differences, we would probably fight in order to win over the audience (her). So the meeting did not happen, because he did not see any sense in meeting me alone.
So, I was in a very bad place, feeling manipulated and violated by both of them, without knowing exactly who was responsible for which part of what happened. My head was absolutely full of red flags about this relationship, because I felt I was not given time to work through my jealousy and other negative emotions so that I can feel the positive ones and be able to emphatically and freely say “yes." I felt blackmailed and manipulated. It did not feel as if my boundaries and needs were respected, let alone accepted.
And then, I saw a text he had written her. (I know this sounds fishy, but it was actually an innocent accident.) In this message he said: “I can definitely say that he is not in emotional pain. He knows your predicament, and he is a sadist and manipulator who takes away your freedom in order to exert power over you.”
Panic and poor impulse control kicked in and I read parts of a second, much later text which was in the same vein, before I could stop myself.
This was pretty much the killing blow for me.
She, however, still sees him as an absolutely great guy, and is mostly just angry that I read the messages. She claims no one is perfect, and he would certainly stop saying such things if she told him to. I was shocked that she had not done that already. I cannot see any indication for him not being a manipulative cowboy if he would then stop saying such things. He would be very stupid and incompetent if he continued. Plus, she is furious, because, allegedly, I don’t trust in her judgement if I think these words could sway her opinion of me, regardless of the fact that I do not actually think that.
I do not want someone in my life who talks like that about me behind my back, much less from such a position. I do not think that any open or poly arrangement can work if one partner (much less the new one) does not respect that arrangement, the boundaries of one or both of the other people, and actively tries to sabotage the other relationship(s). And if he’s not actively sabotaging and manipulating, simply harboring (and expressing) such opinions, making such judgements against someone you don’t know after two weeks just because you can’t get everything you wish for, because that person transparently communicates their boundaries, is such a red flag for me that I don’t see a way where I can be ok with that relationship.
In reaction, I was told a lot of horrible things about me, our relationship and that my not accepting that relationship demonstrates that I am fundamentally unsuitable for poly, that this shows that nobody would ever be good enough for me.
I have a bit of a doubt about that, not because I am such a moral high-rider, but mostly because of all 6 women I have dated in the last years, all had to endure much tighter restrictions (at least in the first two weeks), and not one ever questioned or worked against any boundary set, let alone talked shit about my wife for having these boundaries which restricted us.
One important detail: he is 58 (20 years her elder), which makes me think his words are much more calculated than those of a lovesick 25 year old.
Please tell me where I am wrong so that I can find a way to be ok with this situation.
