Recipe for disaster?

[soconfused13]

ok this will be confusing soooo try to bare with me.

I was once married to my ex husband for 9 years. The last 3 jake really changed. Well when we "split" we said we were going to work on things. Jake slept with two others. we got back together then again we split (during both splits we slept together the entire time) and then jake met a lissa. This time he handed me divorce papers. At first they were not committed jake was sleeping with me. Then even when they did commit jake continued to sleep with me. then stopped for just 3 months then started again. jake finally told lissa a year down the line. Now they are both still sleeping together. We are still sleeping together. We both love jake for some reason. jake SAYS he loves us both. Now jake wants us to have a 3 some despite us both having a lot of emotions on the situation. Nether of us like jake being with the other woman. both having anxiety attacks and so on. Then yesterday jake was all "well if it goes well maybe we can make it into a poly relation ship. We could all sleep in a king bed. you (meaning me) could be the bj and pussy wife and she could be the ass wife. you could be the cooker she could be the cleaner" " then jake is talking about group sex but "not every time". He tells us we need to overcome our anxiety (both about this AND about every day things. we both have medical issues he tells us that we need to figure out how to over come. We both have anxiety. We both have depression. All we get when we show a negitive emotion is how we need to over come them. Heck i get crap for being stressed about my childrens health issues. one of which has a disorder who has killed 2 people in my life) Now I KNOW this is not typical in a poly relationship but i had no idea where else to turn to for advice. So to you outside looking in. does it look like
1 a complete recipe for disaster? (i am thinking so)
2 he thinks poly is all about the sex not the relationship?
3 he is trying to manipulate 2 people he knows who love him?
4 do you think there is any real feelings for us or he just wants us there to fullfill his needs and desires?
5 do you think this type of personality could actually hold a poly relationship together?

also please state if you see anything else in this. it would be greatly appretiated.

 

[soconfused13]

wanted to add

her and I are speaking and trying to support each other emotionally. She was having a panic attack the other day. shes about 40 min ride away and i offered to take her to the hospital. nether of us are hostile to the other at this point. We are both just very confused about this all.

 

[Magdlyn]

OK, this will be confusing so try to bear with me.

Let's see if I can help! First of all, please pop over and read our Guidelines. One of our requests is to use nicknames for all your partners and metamours. That clears up a lot of confusion right off the bat. I will suggest some, but you can choose others.

I was married to my ex husband, Jack, for 9 years. The last 3 years, he really changed. When we "split," we said we were going to work on things.

Jack slept with two people. We got back together, then again we split. (During both splits we slept together the entire time.)

Then Jack met another girl (woman) Diane. This time he handed me divorce papers. At first they were not committed, and he was still sleeping with me. Then even when they did commit, he continued to sleep with me.

You could say, "We slept together." It was your choice. Why did you choose to sleep with Jack when divorce papers had been handed over, and he was supposedly "committed" to Diane? Why did you choose to date a cheater?

Then we stopped (having sex) for just 3 months. Then we started again. Jack finally told Diane that he and I were having sex, a year down the line.

He cheated on Diane for a year, and yet she just kept seeing him when he confessed. That's messed up.

Now they are both still sleeping together. Jack and I are still sleeping together. We both love him, for some reason.

It would be worthwhile to look at why you "love" this man.

He SAYS he loves us both.

You don't believe he loves you. You think he's using you? Abusing you?

Now he wants us to have a threesome, despite the fact that both Diane and I have a lot of emotions around the situation. Neither of us like him being with the other. We are both having anxiety attacks, and so on.

You could leave him, or at least start making plans to leave.

Then yesterday, he was all, "Well, if it goes well, maybe we can make it into a poly relationship. We could all sleep in a king bed. You (meaning me, soconfused) could be the bj and pussy wife, and she, Diane, could be the ass wife. You could be the cooker and she could be the cleaner."

Then he is talking about group sex but, "not every time." He tells us we need to overcome our anxiety (both about this AND about everyday things.

OK, I can see that Jack is saying what he wants. What do you want?

We both have medical issues. He tells us that we need to figure out how to overcome them. We both have anxiety and depression. All we get when we show a negative emotion is to be told how we need to overcome them.

Heck, I get crap for being stressed about my childrens' health issues. One of them has a disorder that has killed 2 people in my life.

Now I KNOW this is not typical in a poly relationship, but I had no idea where else to turn to for advice. So to you, outside, looking in. Does it look like:

1 a complete recipe for disaster? (i am thinking so)YES
2 he thinks poly is all about the sex, not the relationship?MAYBE
3 he is trying to manipulate 2 people he knows who love him?You seem to think so! And you would know.
4 do you think there are any real feelings for us, or he just wants us there to fulfill his needs and desires?Just using you both. And you're allowing it.
5 do you think this type of personality could actually hold a poly relationship together?Read about narcissists.

Also,please state if you see anything else in this. it would be greatly appreciated.

To be very frank, what I see is 2 women with low self-esteem, and depression and anxiety, settling for relationships with a (possibly charming) possible narcissist. It sounds pretty bad, if not a complete disaster.

All you've written about is what Jack wants. Is this the 1950s? Is America Great Again?

I agree that you, personally, need to work on your depression and anxiety. You could get therapy, and possibly you need meds to help you too.

You need to learn why you have latched onto a man who seems to be emotionally abusing you. You also need to get medical help for your child. Kids come first.

Jack is acting in a gross manner. You're the pussy and bj wife and Diane is the ass wife? You cook, she cleans, you all share a bed!??

What do YOU want? What happened to the divorce?

 

[vinsanity0]

1 a complete recipe for disaster? (i am thinking so)

Sounds like it.

2 he thinks poly is all about the sex not the relationship?

Sounds like it

3 he is trying to manipulate 2 people he knows who love him?

Yes

4 do you think there is any real feelings for us or he just wants us there to fullfill his needs and desires?

That's hard to say. What are real feelings? He may have feelings for the both of you, but at the same time he is treating you both like sex toys who should be there to fulfill his desires.

5 do you think this type of personality could actually hold a poly relationship together?

I doubt if a person like that could hold any relationship together. He cheated on both of you. He not only expects to be forgiven, but expects the both of you to fulfill his sexual fantasies. On top of all that, I don't think he even has a real grasp of what poly is.

You are right to question this so don't doubt yourself.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle. I hope you feel a bit better for airing out.

How you are being treated is not ok.

her and I are speaking and trying to support each other emotionally. She was having a panic attack the other day. shes about 40 min ride away and i offered to take her to the hospital. nether of us are hostile to the other at this point. We are both just very confused about this all.

Take her to hospital, and tell her to get medical care for the panic attack/anxiety.

At the same time, don't spend all your energy keeping her afloat. You have to learn to take care of YOU first. Not like "selfish" but like "self care." If you always put him first and what he wants first, if you always put her stuff first, when are you going to get around to taking care of YOU? Self neglect is not a virtue.

I don't think it's confusing. If he treats you both crap, and you both prop each other up/heal each other? Then he doesn't have to change his behavior. He can keep ON using you both. And you will each "fix" the other one and then he can go for another round of using the both of you. He doesn't even have to take anyone to hospital -- one of you will do it. That works out just fine for HIM!

The part that IS confusing is when someone you love says they love you but actually treats you crap. When words and actions do not match? Believe the actions. Cuz talk is cheap. So I sympathize, but I'm glad you are questioning this whole situation.

1 a complete recipe for disaster? (i am thinking so)

To me? It's already disaster. I can't help but wonder how much of your anxiety and depression is situational. If you keep staying involved with a user guy like this -- I'm not sure how that's supposed to alleviate any stress. He just brings you MORE.

I'd suggest you let the divorce BE a divorce, and have nothing do to with him any more. No more sharing sex. Nothing but bare bones minimum if required by law over the children if he is the father.

He's treating both of you very poorly, and it sounds like everything is about what HE wants rather than what is actually healthy or what the other people might want.

2 he thinks poly is all about the sex not the relationship?

That's his problem if he thinks wonky things. You don't have to think them. And this isn't even about poly. He sounds like he just wants sex. You and her are sex dispensing machines to him. Not real people with feelings and concerns.

It doesn't sound like he wants to have healthy relationship with either of you. He just wants "sex faucets" he can turn on and off whenever he wants some. Who on earth says this to people and think this is a healthy/respectful way to talk to a partner?

We could all sleep in a king bed. you (meaning me) could be the bj and pussy wife and she could be the ass wife. you could be the cooker she could be the cleaner"

3 he is trying to manipulate 2 people he knows who love him?

Yes. And not "trying to manipulate" but "has been manipulating all along."

Love isn't supposed to hurt you.

4 do you think there is any real feelings for us or he just wants us there to fullfill his needs and desires?

You answered yourself. You pretty much call it. He views you as a "faucet."

5 do you think this type of personality could actually hold a poly relationship together?

No. A 3 people polyship needs a 3 person yes. So even if HE wants it so bad? That is only 1 yes. If you are not up for that wacky, it's not happening. Say no. And steel yourself for all sorts of tantrum to try to manipulate you into a yes. Including bullying you so you say "yes" not because you want it, but to shut him up and stop the barrage / abuse.

also please state if you see anything else in this. it would be greatly appretiated.

I wonder why you have stayed in this mess so long rather than moving on with your life once the divorce was filed.

I encourage you to examine what you want from healthy relationships. You sound like you do not want THIS and you are ready to recognize that THIS is not healthy and would not make the cut. No more telling yourself stories that he will change or improve or it will get better or whatever. Just a hard look at what it ACTUALLY is: A recipe for disaster.

We both have anxiety. We both have depression. All we get when we show a negitive emotion is how we need to over come them. Heck i get crap for being stressed about my childrens health issues. one of which has a disorder who has killed 2 people in my life)

Is this how you want to be treated by a partner?

Is this healthy relationship to you?

Do you find this respectful?

I assume since the divorce you live elsewhere and not with him. I encourage you to get away -- change the locks, change the phone, change the email -- just cut him off from access to you. I encourage you to seek counseling and support so you can get away and STAY away. From your history it sounds like you kept getting lured back in.

Sometimes one must physically leave and stay gone a while first before heart and brain can heal enough to let go / leave mentally and emotionally. That can be hard, because the scary unknown is scary, and the familiar (even if bad) is at least familiar.

https://speakoutloud.net/articles has some online resources, but maybe you could search for local help to wherever you live. Toward the middle is the tactics list. You could read and circle the ones that apply here.

I don't imagine you want the kids watching this thinking this is "normal" and it is what they can expect to get in their grown up relationships in future.

Galagirl

 

[MsEmotional]

It sounds like you already know the answers to these questions. Get out now. He sounds like an awfully uncaring human being.

This is particularly disturbing:

Then yesterday he was all "well if it goes well maybe we can make it into a poly relation ship. We could all sleep in a king bed. you (meaning me) could be the bj and pussy wife and she could be the ass wife. you could be the cooker she could be the cleaner"

In no way does he seem to be treating either of you like anything other than objects.

 

[soconfused13]

I guess for me I stayed because of the old supportive him. I dont know what has happened to the man I fell in love with. We have gone through hell together with the kids medical issues and my own. I have SOOOOO many medical problems. I also am a little affraid no man would want a disabled woman with two special needs kids.
As far as self care. I always sucked at that LOL. My mom gets on me all the time. I run myself ragged trying to help every one around with me and deal with the issues in my own home. If I ever hear someone is going through something I always try to help no matter how much it puts me out. I feel guilty as hell if I dont.

I am sorry you struggle. I hope you feel a bit better for airing out.

How you are being treated is not ok.



Take her to hospital, and tell her to get medical care for the panic attack/anxiety.

At the same time, don't spend all your energy keeping her afloat. You have to learn to take care of YOU first. Not like "selfish" but like "self care." If you always put him first and what he wants first, if you always put her stuff first, when are you going to get around to taking care of YOU? Self neglect is not a virtue.

I don't think it's confusing. If he treats you both crap, and you both prop each other up/heal each other? Then he doesn't have to change his behavior. He can keep ON using you both. And you will each "fix" the other one and then he can go for another round of using the both of you. He doesn't even have to take anyone to hospital -- one of you will do it. That works out just fine for HIM!

The part that IS confusing is when someone you love says they love you but actually treats you crap. When words and actions do not match? Believe the actions. Cuz talk is cheap. So I sympathize, but I'm glad you are questioning this whole situation.



To me? It's already disaster. I can't help but wonder how much of your anxiety and depression is situational. If you keep staying involved with a user guy like this -- I'm not sure how that's supposed to alleviate any stress. He just brings you MORE.

I'd suggest you let the divorce BE a divorce, and have nothing do to with him any more. No more sharing sex. Nothing but bare bones minimum if required by law over the children if he is the father.

He's treating both of you very poorly, and it sounds like everything is about what HE wants rather than what is actually healthy or what the other people might want.



That's his problem if he thinks wonky things. You don't have to think them. And this isn't even about poly. He sounds like he just wants sex. You and her are sex dispensing machines to him. Not real people with feelings and concerns.

It doesn't sound like he wants to have healthy relationship with either of you. He just wants "sex faucets" he can turn on and off whenever he wants some. Who on earth says this to people and think this is a healthy/respectful way to talk to a partner?

We could all sleep in a king bed. you (meaning me) could be the bj and pussy wife and she could be the ass wife. you could be the cooker she could be the cleaner"



Yes. And not "trying to manipulate" but "has been manipulating all along."

Love isn't supposed to hurt you.



You answered yourself. You pretty much call it. He views you as a "faucet."



No. A 3 people polyship needs a 3 person yes. So even if HE wants it so bad? That is only 1 yes. If you are not up for that wacky, it's not happening. Say no. And steel yourself for all sorts of tantrum to try to manipulate you into a yes. Including bullying you so you say "yes" not because you want it, but to shut him up and stop the barrage / abuse.



I wonder why you have stayed in this mess so long rather than moving on with your life once the divorce was filed.

I encourage you to examine what you want from healthy relationships. You sound like you do not want THIS and you are ready to recognize that THIS is not healthy and would not make the cut. No more telling yourself stories that he will change or improve or it will get better or whatever. Just a hard look at what it ACTUALLY is: A recipe for disaster.



Is this how you want to be treated by a partner?

Is this healthy relationship to you?

Do you find this respectful?

I assume since the divorce you live elsewhere and not with him. I encourage you to get away -- change the locks, change the phone, change the email -- just cut him off from access to you. I encourage you to seek counseling and support so you can get away and STAY away. From your history it sounds like you kept getting lured back in.

Sometimes one must physically leave and stay gone a while first before heart and brain can heal enough to let go / leave mentally and emotionally. That can be hard, because the scary unknown is scary, and the familiar (even if bad) is at least familiar.

https://speakoutloud.net/articles has some online resources, but maybe you could search for local help to wherever you live. Toward the middle is the tactics list. You could read and circle the ones that apply here.

I don't imagine you want the kids watching this thinking this is "normal" and it is what they can expect to get in their grown up relationships in future.

Galagirl

 

[GalaGirl]

I guess for me I stayed because of the old supportive him. I dont know what has happened to the man I fell in love with.

That person doesn't sound like they live there any more. They have changed.

We have gone through hell together with the kids medical issues and my own. I have SOOOOO many medical problems.

(Going through hell together in the past) is not a reason to (stick around for poor treatment today.)

I also am a little affraid no man would want a disabled woman with two special needs kids.

You are not afraid of damage being done to you and the kids if you stay?

"Scared I won't find a new partner" is not a reason to stay in a crap situation. That might be jumping too far ahead in thinking.

It's ok to aim smaller and just head to "neutral" zone -- no new partner around yet, but no new damage, strain, or stresses being done to you by old partner. Getting to chill some on the anxiety, panic, and depression.

Could head to neutral zone and some time there healing first. As much time as needed.

As far as self care. I always sucked at that LOL. My mom gets on me all the time.

I do not see the LOL in this.

Can you turn to mom for help getting away from this unhealthy situation? Help learning healthier personal boundaries?

I run myself ragged trying to help every one around with me and deal with the issues in my own home.

You are not willing to help others a reasonable amount? Like SOME help? But not to the level of running yourself ragged?

You don't have to be Superman or Wonder Woman, you know. You sound like you have enough on your plate with your medical issues and the kids special needs without having to help every other person in the neighborhood with whatever they have going on to the level of burning yourself out.

If I ever hear someone is going through something I always try to help no matter how much it puts me out.

Why do you value your own health and well being so little?

You are not willing to loan someone a cup of sugar? (reasonable help)

You HAVE to bake the whole cake for them even if doing that puts you out? (taking on too much)

I feel guilty as hell if I dont.

Where did you learn to think that way? Who made you responsible for all people everywhere?

You have inherent worth, value, and dignity.

The measure of your value is NOT in the services you provide on demand "no matter what." Like if you are not serving other people you suck. You DON'T suck.

Is that how he gets you to do stuff? Tells you you suck if you aren't providing this or that service for him?

I'm not trying to be mean to you here. You sound like you are tired of being treated like this and trying to unconfuse and lighten your burdens.

Well, I'm saying I think you pretty much called it. This IS messed up. You ARE being treated poorly.

I hope you think about improving your situation and getting away.

Galagirl

 

[SenatorBinks27]

Just joining the "Danger, Will Robinson!" crowd and saying do what is healthiest for you. I stayed too long in a toxic situation because I was afraid nobody else would want me, and while I am struggling on my own I do now know for a fact this is not true. I have a superhero complex too, but we neex to help ourselves before we can really help others - think oxygen masks in airplanes.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

As far as self care. I always sucked at that LOL. My mom gets on me all the time. I run myself ragged trying to help every one around with me and deal with the issues in my own home. If I ever hear someone is going through something I always try to help no matter how much it puts me out. I feel guilty as hell if I dont.

Eventually it would be awesome to get yourself to the place where you can do self-care for your own sake because you deserve it. But in the meantime, would it be helpful to know that you can't be of proper service to anyone if you're not taking care of yourself? If not for yourself then for your kids, who deserve a mom who's taking care of herself so she can be the best mom possible? Who shows them a role-model of self-respect by leaving an unhealthy relationship?

Becoming a single mom is scary. Confronting your demons is scary. Helping other people instead of helping yourself is an effective way to avoid those scary situations, but it keeps you in this stuck place. Being "the helper" is an effective way to create meaning and purpose in this scary and chaotic world, but at tremendous cost to your physical and mental health. It's ok to ask for help. It's a sign of strength to admit that the situation has gotten bigger than you can personally handle and that you need community and support to get through it.

Try to imagine the feeling you get when people ask you for help and you're able to make their life a little bit easier. What if you re-frame "asking for help puts a burden on others" as "asking for help is offering the opportunity for someone else to experience that good feeling?"

 

[kdt26417]

Hello soconfused13,

Trying to give your ex-husband the benefit of the doubt, it sounds like he sees sex as non-emotional; that is, sex is just something you do for fun. (Think sport sex.) He is speaking in a callous way (BJ/pussy wife and ass wife) because "Hey it's just sex, it's only sex." Like there aren't real people involved, just sex robots. Love has nothing to do with it. I am assuming you (and Lissa) do not look at it in that way. If my assumption is right, then maybe you and Lissa are not sexually compatible with him. If I'm wrong in that assumption, then maybe that particular part of his behavior is okay. Although I'm not so sure about the "cooker and cleaner" remark. And "You need to figure out how to overcome your emotional and medical issues?" That sounds rather selfish. What is *he* willing to contribute in this relationship?

Re: does it look like a complete recipe for disaster? ... actually it sounds like a pretty sweet deal for him. For you, not so much ...

Re: does it look like he thinks poly is all about the sex not the relationship? ... well I don't know if poly is what he's shooting for. He definitely wants some kind of nonmonogamy, and he does seem to want your consent. But does he want you to consent freely, or does he want to push you into it?

Re: does it look like he is trying to manipulate two people he knows who love him? ... it does look manipulative on his part, yes.

Re: do I think there are any real feelings for you, or does he just want you there to fulfill his needs and desires? ... he is definitely focused on what *he* wants, not at all on what *you* need.

Re: do I think this type of personality could actually hold a poly relationship together? ... look at his track record. He has split up with you twice, and the second time, he met Lissa and divorced you. All while continuing to have sex with you and then after the fact he says, "Hey, how about you be the cooking/BJ/pussy wife, and Lissa can be the cleaning/ass wife." This does not sound like a man who can hold any kind of relationship together, much less a poly one. It sounds like he wants you to be the one who holds it all together.

Re: you are a little afraid that no man would want a disabled woman with two special needs kids ... this does complicate things a bit, but let's assume you're right. You then have a choice, of being alone, or of being with him. Which of those two options is worse? Only you can answer that question, but being with him does not sound to me like a good deal for you right now.

Re: you don't know what has happened to the man you fell in love with ... perhaps you are staying with him in the hopes that he will become that man again. I don't know whether he will. He could be going through a mid-life crisis; maybe he'll come to his senses after awhile. How long are you willing to wait?

As the others have pointed out, you have to take care of yourself before you can be a good helper to other people. Take care of yourself.

Sympathy and regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Amygdala]

Wow, just wow.

It's one thing for a guy to dream of having two women, so common it's a cliche... But

Could it be possible that that entire time from the first spit up that he was searching for his magic third he thought he could manipulate as way to get this happening?

5. do you think this type of personality could actually hold a poly relationship together?

Perhaps the question should be Do I think I could hold a poly relationship with this person?