Regretting opening up

C

Cruisinginthesun

New member
Hello,

I’m a straight man married to a bisexual woman. We are both in our mid 40s.

A couple of years ago, partly to address our own sex life issues (which it did), and partly to give her room to explore her same sex attraction which she’d suppressed in her younger years due to a highly religious upbringing (I married her assuming she was straight), I agreed that she could see women as long as it didn’t turn into a relationship and was dove discreetly. I was also really clear that my blessing didn’t extend to herseeing men. I also made it clear that I personally wasn’t comfortable with non-monogamy, but that I understood that her needs in this were more important than me feeling comfortable.

I had no “good reasons” to see anyone, and my wife also said she’d be unhappy with me seeing women, so it remained closed my side.

A few weeks ago she slept with a male escort. When I found out and confronted her, she told me she needed to know what it was like to sleep with a man with lots of experience. She said that the experience was crap, and had made her realise that our own sex life is pretty good after all. It also came out that she’d interacted with (kissed, touched and received oral) from men at a mixed event she’d attended. She booked the escort because she’d hoped to have sex with a man at the event, but it hadn’t happened.

She was mortified and really apologetic about what she’d done. She’s volunteered to drop the non-monogamy stuff in her life and concentrate on us. Although she won’t give up the tantric massages she has monthly.

I feel lost, and unsure how to proceed. I don’t want to leave her, and I don’t want to “use” this as an excuse to force her to do things my way (monogamously), but all of my reasons for being sceptical of ENM in the first place have been massively reinforced by her ignoring the ethical part.
 
I can see you felt you were being logical about "allowing" her to explore women only. This kind of "rule" often backfires. Again and again we see couples try this, only to have the woman become interested in being open to dating all genders.

You might want to rethink this. If you're going to open, my recommendation is to open all the way. You can renegotiate this so that your wife doesn't feel the need to sneak around behind your back. Be open to all genders, on both sides. That means you too will have the option to date others, even if you choose not to.

Many men are OK with their women dating other women only. Then they don't need to confront their own jealousy, envy, and competitiveness. However, it's your own job to work through this issue. You can see your wife is interested in other men as well as women.

And on her side, she has to become OK with you dating the gender(s) of your choice, as well.

Please get a copy of the book Opening Up for more information and help.
 
Thanks for your very fast reply!

I did a lot of reading on ENM back when we agreed to do it. I bought a copy of that book and read it cover to cover twice (I thought it was really good). To be honest none of it resonates with me - that’s not to say I disagree with it particularly, it’s simply not a relationship style I can be comfortable with.

While the primal side of me might have some level of desire to sleep with others, at the relationship level it would still feel wrong to me. So I don’t want to do it.

I know all the intellectual arguments against a “One Penis Policy” and all that, but my need to draw the line at women only isn’t a control thing, a sexist thing, a homophobia thing, or a patriarchal thing - it’s a visceral thing - and I simply opened things up to the maximum extent I could be at least tolerably comfortable with. And it wasn’t the only restriction I needed - I also requested that she be careful that none of her interactions develop into an ongoing relationship (and as far as I’m aware she did stick to that).
 
Well, then, you are not interested in polyamory at all. You want a wife who will only have sex with other women and never fall in love with any of them, and never have sex with men or fall in love with another man. It sounds like your wife wants something entirely different. This may be a dealbreaker for your relationship.

I would question the "visceral thing" excuse as a product of the patriarchy and a need for possession and ownership of a woman. But if that's where you're at, and you can't or won't move past it, that's that. It sounds like you and wife want different things entirely and may not be suited for long term compatibility.

You say you want to be "tolerably comfortable" with opening up, but it is possible to move outside your comfort zone and learn to be comfortable in the next stage. However, if that's your line in the sand, be honest with yourself and with her and tell her you can't be with her, because she wants a different kind of life and you're not willing to be with her if she needs to explore that.
 
I say this as respectfully as possible, from one man to another---that 'visceral thing' you feel when thinking about your partner with other men IS the result of patriarchy. Now, that doesn't mean you can just change it. It's quite possible that you and your wife have now reached a point where you want/need different things. It happens. I guess you will have to see if she continues to have these desires, to the point where she continues to act on them, and then decide if this is a deal breaker for you. She also feels what she feels, and being completely transparent with each other will help you both decide if your relationship can continue.

Sorry it's so hard though. There's no way around some difficult conversations in this case.
 
I’m sorry, but that’s just nonsense.

My wife feels the same negative way about me seeing women. The only way you can intellectually and honestly dismiss the visceral thing as being “about patriarchy and ownership” is if it only applies to men. My personal experience is that this is not correct.
 
Cruisinginthesun said:
Sorry to be blunt. But that needed calling out.

I do really appreciate the other points you both made though. Thank you.
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No worries. I appreciate bluntness and will simply note that patriarchy does NOT only apply to men. It's a systemic way of thinking in a society that applies to men and women and how they think about gender. But we don't need to agree on this. The other points are far more important for your situation. You are not comfortable being in a relationship where your wife has sex with other men. The 'why' of that really doesn't matter, unless you plan to change it, but you don't. So, it's the reality of your situation. There's no need to debate how patriarchy works, really, and I'm fine with disagreeing about that.
 
While I agree with my esteemed forum members here about OPPs for the most part, I do have to ponder why someone specifically like the OP is obliged to do more than they already are.

The OP isn't someone who agreed to a polyamorous relationship so anything is a compromise already. Okay, the restrictions he wants do have controversy around them, but why does that matter in the grand scale of things.

He isn't offering polyamory. He's saying what level of ENM he can tolerate. I'm not sure we should argue that he should be able to tolerate something else.

If I were him, I'd just say well it's best I just stick to mutual monogamy, then.
 
Thanks Openbook - glad I didn’t offend. I’m terrible for getting into ideological arguments in real life too! Spent too much time studying philosophy I’m afraid! Very happy to agree to disagree!
 
SEASONEDpolyAgain said:
While I agree with my esteemed forum members here about OPPs for the most part, I do have to ponder why someone specifically like the OP is obliged to do more than they already are.

The OP isn't someone who agreed to a polyamorous relationship so anything is a compromise already. Okay, the restrictions he wants do have controversy around them, but why does that matter in the grand scale of things.

He isn't offering polyamory. He's saying what level of ENM he can tolerate. I'm not sure we should argue that he should be able to tolerate something else.

If I were him, I'd just say well it's best I just stick to mutual monogamy, then.
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Thanks for your reply. Your last sentence is exactly what I feel like saying, but I’m worried that this is based on my short term feelings following my wife’s recent actions and my discovery of them rather than being what is right for us and our relationship.
 
Rather than call it the patriarchy, let's call it an ownership relationship model.

Your wife doesn't want you dating other women because your are hers. She would (probably) feel extremely jealous if you dated another woman, a visceral fear of loss, because all of the societal programming we grow up with markets monogamy to us. Another woman is a threat to her status in your life. Monogamy is the norm, after all, and it takes most people a hell of a lot of internal work deconstructing that. (This is starting to change with social media making information about alternatives available to youth, but as we see progress we also find backlash).

That visceral fear of loss is so strong for many people that, in order to avoid it, absolute monogamy is their relationship requirement. For some, they attempt to control it by having an OPP or OVP within an open relationship. Some swing together only. Some fuck separately but place rules around casual sex only.

All of these scenarios end up here, either with feels, wanting more autonomy or having broken the same-sex-only rule like your wife did. I'm not saying everyone who does these things end up here, but all of these scenarios appear regularly.

Your wife told you, after the fact, that she really wanted more autonomy in her decision making about who she can choose for a sexual partner. Right now she is remorseful, but there's always the possibility that after a time of atonement she will find a man attractive and her curiosity and desire for autonomy will be sparked again. How will you and she approach that potential future? Call it quits now before you get hurt again? Or make a conscious plan for how to navigate it when it does happen?
 
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Hello Cruisinginthesun,

Sorry your wife didn't honor the agreement that the two of you made. I don't see this as a problem with ENM, instead I see it as a problem with her lack of ethics. She's volunteered to drop the nonmonogamy stuff and concentrate on the two of you. I would suggest that you accept that offer. Now the tantric massages that she has monthly, that is another issue, you will have to decide how you feel about that.

Anyway those are my thoughts,
Kevin T.
 
I'm sorry she cheated on agreements.

She was mortified and really apologetic about what she’d done. She’s volunteered to drop the non-monogamy stuff in her life and concentrate on us. Although she won’t give up the tantric massages she has monthly.
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Maybe you two could talk to a couples counselor and consider a trial separation of a year?

And in counseling figure out if this is going to be reconciliation toward monogamy that you both willingly and freely choose? And healing from the cheating?

Or if this needs to move on to divorce and both of you single? And if you want to be "plain exes" only or eventually may change again to "exes and friends."

There's nothing wrong with wanting monogamy.

If you were already stretching to the max with "monogamish" like mostly monogamy and then she had space for casual sex with women? Continuing or going further in that direction sounds like you bending into pretzels.

So maybe it's time to return to your core values? Think about what YOU need to be happy? What you want in life?

Galagirl
 
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