Religion, politics, sex .. and other taboo subjects

[River]

"Maybe it's irony that, by trotting out this lame "misunderstanding" -- a propaganda tactic -- you have attempted to undermine, even bury, my point."

So there's no possible way it was a sincere question? You're accusing me of deliberate "propaganda" and an attempt to undermine your point. That seems a bit harsh to me. Totally not fair.

I think what I was doing is called clarification. Too bad you didn't afford me the same respectful tone.

 

[River]

Seriously?? What I'm saying is that
You might notice that I said NOTHING about philosophers or strategists or any other architects of analysis & thought.

I say the "social media" world demonstrates the OPPOSITE of that.

Sure, a great portion of it does this, for sure. But not all of it. Perhaps this is where our very real misunderstanding begins, with my sense that "social media" isn't 100% crap. If I say my view is more nuanced than that, will you presume I'm deliberately undermining the legitimacy of your point by accusing you of lacking a capacity for nuance? I'd rather that you didn't. I do not think in simple either/or, black and white terms. I guess that's because I've spun around the sun so many times by now.

 

[Ravenscroft]

Sure, a great portion of it does this, for sure. But not all of it.

But... see, again, you "misunderstand" me.

Nowhere did I say (or, really, indicate) that 100% of Social Media is unreliable.

You say I did.

You use this to set yourself up as The Reasonable Voice.

By so doing, you paint me as wholly unreasonable.

And you do so with no real analysis, no logical structure, but rather wholly by unsubstantiated appeals to your Wisdom & Authority & Moderation.

...which is kinda what the "new media" thought manipulators are doing.

Hence, propaganda.

What I'm saying is that we are now in a Clap For Tinkerbell world, & it's infecting even sites such as this. Maybe it's irony that, by trotting out this lame "misunderstanding" -- a propaganda tactic -- you have attempted to undermine, even bury, my point.

If it's NOT bullshit, then resist every urge to nitpick. Every statement of "I generally agree with what you're saying but you suck for HOW you're saying it" gives strength to the marching morons.
________________

Age tends more to hardening of the orthodoxies than to any sort of rationality (much less wisdom).

FWIW, "turns around the sun" is just bad Confucianism, as depicted by Ba Chin in The Family. In that world, if someone is above you in rank, tenure, or age, he is smarter/wiser than you -- no matter how stupid or senile his actions would otherwise obviously be.

Careful; next thing, you'll start calling yourself (with great pride) humble.

 

[River]

I don't want to play your game according to your rules. Sorry.

 

[River]

Ravenscroft,

It seems to me that you want to play a word game in which your interlocutor is allowed zero leeway with regard to logic, rigor and precision while you refuse to play on the very same game board yourself, according to your own rules. This is known as a double standard. The rules apply to anyone playing your game, but not to the one who unilaterally makes the rules: yourself.

In this game, what i say about my intentions in our conversation is not valid. Only what you say about my intentions in our conversation is valid. Therefore, if I ask a clarifying question I cannot possibly be sincere in my intent, but am rather attempting to dismiss you and cloud things and otherwise create propaganda rather than participate in a conversation. You blatantly refused to accept my clarifying question at face value. In no way could it have been, according to you, a sincere attempt to clarify where you were positioned on a spectrum of possibilities. It could only have been a rhetorical ploy to dismiss your point.

You've also set up a new game in which ANYTHING I say about any of this proves your point -- that I intend only to propagandize and dismiss.... Only I can be wrong in this game -- and entirely me, never you. There is no grey area allowed in this game. It's one of us or the other who is 100% to blame for ... whatever the fuck you think is going on. (Whatever it is: It isn't. But if I say so you're going to see this as proof of your point.)

On other occasions I've seen you behave (verbally) in a gentlemanly way, which I have appreciated. Maybe that's a bad word for you? "Gentlemanly"? Well, you never issued me the rule book ahead of times, nor the unacceptable word list.

I don't know what's going on with you here, but I do hope you have a beautiful, happy holiday. This may sound like a snarky insult to you, but I promise you it is not.

 

[LoveBunny]

I was smooching on my girlfriend outside a bar in a very small town, we were traveling on xmas. A fairly attractive guy my age came out, saw us, and starting talking to us. Already, I was shocked by the fact that a man would interrupt two women kissing. I can't imagine he would have done so had we been a heterosexual couple. Then he proceeded to tell us his girlfriend fooled around with women in college, and his son his gay. He's disappointed, but loves and "supports" his son anyway.

We asked him why the "disappointment," and he said he felt the world was harder for gays. We admitted, given our new "president" and his anti-LGBT cronies, he might be right. Well, this guy then tells us he's excited about Trump, never trusted that nasty Clinton woman, and why were we so upset about Trump? Trump hasn't even done anything yet, give him a chance!

Well, gf and I got fired up. Trump hasn't done anything?? He's appointed racists and anti-environmentalists to office, threaten to amp up nuclear arms, etc.....But none of that bothered this guy. He proceeded to tell me and my half-black gf that "I don't believe they're that racist. The most racist people I ever met were blacks."

Luckily, our cab arrived just then, and we left this dude in the middle of a sentence, we were so done with him. The female cabbie heard us talking about what had just happened, and she said, "Trump has empowered these idiots. I've been getting disgusting comments from men all week. They think it's ok now to be a total douche."

Seems it's impossible to separate "politics" from everyday life. It infiltrates every interaction. I got a feeling this idiot was trying to reach out to us in some way, but he just couldn't see past his own white male privilege, didn't understand why gay black women might not be excited about Trump.

Sigh.

 

[Magdlyn]

And here I'd always thought utopia was from the root "eu" meaning "good."

As Ravenscroft mistakenly tried to point out, by saying "eu" means "no..." with "topia" meaning "place."

I had to look it up. "Eu" does mean "good," as in the "good news," ie: euangelion. Good message. We fuck up thinking it's "ev" and thinking "angel" means a humanoid spiritual being with wings. Angel means messenger. For example: Gabriel was a messenger when "he" brought Mary the news of her impending pregnancy by the invisible sky god.

The suffix root of utopia is actually "ou," not "eu." "Ou" means "no." "Eu" does mean good. So, the basic premise is that a utopia is "no place," meaning something out of this world, impossible in reality. So, utopia is not "good place," but a place impossible to find in the physical cosmos.

 

[Magdlyn]

I was smooching on my girlfriend outside a bar in a very small town, we were traveling on xmas. A fairly attractive guy my age came out, saw us, and starting talking to us. Already, I was shocked by the fact that a man would interrupt two women kissing. I can't imagine he would have done so had we been a heterosexual couple. Then he proceeded to tell us his girlfriend fooled around with women in college, and his son his gay. He's disappointed, but loves and "supports" his son anyway.

We asked him why the "disappointment," and he said he felt the world was harder for gays. We admitted, given our new "president" and his anti-LGBT cronies, he might be right. Well, this guy then tells us he's excited about Trump, never trusted that nasty Clinton woman, and why were we so upset about Trump? Trump hasn't even done anything yet, give him a chance!

Well, gf and I got fired up. Trump hasn't done anything?? He's appointed racists and anti-environmentalists to office, threaten to amp up nuclear arms, etc.....But none of that bothered this guy. He proceeded to tell me and my half-black gf that "I don't believe they're that racist. The most racist people I ever met were blacks."

Luckily, our cab arrived just then, and we left this dude in the middle of a sentence, we were so done with him. The female cabbie heard us talking about what had just happened, and she said, "Trump has empowered these idiots. I've been getting disgusting comments from men all week. They think it's ok now to be a total douche."

Seems it's impossible to separate "politics" from everyday life. It infiltrates every interaction. I got a feeling this idiot was trying to reach out to us in some way, but he just couldn't see past his own white male privilege, didn't understand why gay black women might not be excited about Trump.

Sigh.

You're in Florida? 'Nuff said.

 

[Spork]

What keeps blowing my mind is this...

People get upset about Trump because of the racist, misogynist, homophobic, bigoted, awful things that HE HAS SAID AND DONE. He was caught ON VIDEO saying certain things, doing certain things, and then he's choosing a crack team of the most appalling human beings anyone has ever heard of to do the work of running this country. All while running multiple scams and conflicts of interest that basically show he's going to use his position to grow his own fame, ego, wealth, and personal empire, and that's pretty much the entire point of the entire thing.

It's easily one of the most disgusting prospects I can contemplate.

To me, personally, this man is the embodiment of every man who has ever laughed about and belittled the woman he just raped, who thinks she is weak if she kills herself later, he is the human effigy of my moral revulsion at that specific concept. Assault, humiliation, harm, destruction, he's got a cesspit of toxic filth in place of a human soul.

Fuck that guy.

And this is really personal for me. My ex husband voted for him. What I said prior to this paragraph, I have said to him. His jaw literally hung open and he, in tones of offense and desperation, repeated to me that he "needed" Hillary to go to jail, for letting our men die in Benghazi. She does not care about soldiers. I informed him that he, as a soldier, or simply as a man so blinded by his own ego, does not care about anyone but his own paper doll. And he, too, can fuck off.

He and his friends can sit in that disgusting garage and talk about how liberals are special snowflakes, when they can't even manage their own emotions because the women in their lives have all left them. Sitting there self destructing in their own little "safe space" because they can't come out and deal with the world. Don't you talk to me about entitlement. I work for a living. And I'm brainwashed by the "liberal media" when I quote actual words out of an actual man's actual mouth??

I swear to you people I can't...I just cannot comprehend the insanity at work here. I can not.

And this is why when FallenAngelina was talking about building bridges to understanding, I was like LOL, no, sorry. I tried. I stood over on the right bank of that river and tried. But you can't reason with this. I've crossed the bridge and I'm about to burn it behind me, hunker down, and hope they don't build boats.

 

[kdt26417]

The ugly side of America has really oozed out of the woodwork since Trump was elected. I didn't realize how bad it was until now.

 

[Spork]

The ugly side of America has really oozed out of the woodwork since Trump was elected. I didn't realize how bad it was until now.

Honestly...I have to keep reminding myself...I don't think it's "that bad" in the sense that they are many or most of any group of people, but I think that they as a minority were always there. It's just that they felt like "in this politically correct world" they couldn't be assholes, even if they were "just joking" without someone getting offended or possibly suing them. So there aren't more of "them" now than there were...they just feel a little braver to speak up than before.

We can take this in different ways though.

We can be afraid, upset, worried, and stressed about this, and about them.

Or...we can be thankful that they are maybe more willing to show their true colors so that they can be avoided or (if fighting is your thing) fought.

But the good hearts, that I always looked around me and saw, they are still good. As...slimed...as I feel, knowing that the Great Orange Menace will soon be our President... I keep reminding myself of the good in America because I don't want to lose faith in people or in decency or in my country. And hope that the damage done in four years' time isn't irreparable.

 

[River]

And here I'd always thought utopia was from the root "eu" meaning "good."

As Ravenscroft mistakenly tried to point out, by saying "eu" means "no..." with "topia" meaning "place."

I had to look it up. "Eu" does mean "good," as in the "good news," ie: euangelion. Good message. We fuck up thinking it's "ev" and thinking "angel" means a humanoid spiritual being with wings. Angel means messenger. For example: Gabriel was a messenger when "he" brought Mary the news of her impending pregnancy by the invisible sky god.

The suffix root of utopia is actually "ou," not "eu." "Ou" means "no." "Eu" does mean good. So, the basic premise is that a utopia is "no place," meaning something out of this world, impossible in reality. So, utopia is not "good place," but a place impossible to find in the physical cosmos.

Good points about eutopia / utopia. Actually, I'm part of a tiny (and hopefully growing) contingent of people trying to popularize the word eutopia, meaning (in this spelling) "good place". Part of that task is to be clear about the etymology and such, as you're doing above.

As Wikipedia helpfully points out, "Eutopia, derived from the Greek εὖ ("good" or "well") and τόπος ("place"), means "good place", and is strictly speaking the correct term to describe a positive utopia. In English, eutopia and utopia are homophonous, which may have given rise to the change in meaning." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia#Etymology

Ideal or perfect places may not be achievable, but good places are, and so we need such a word as eutopia -- and its place in conversation and imagination.

 

[River]

What keeps blowing my mind is this...
And this is why when FallenAngelina was talking about building bridges to understanding, I was like LOL, no, sorry. I tried. I stood over on the right bank of that river and tried. But you can't reason with this. I've crossed the bridge and I'm about to burn it behind me, hunker down, and hope they don't build boats.

Man, I'm hearing ya. Loud and clear. Its not that F.A. was all wrong and that you (or I) are all right. She had a valid point, up to a point. But your point here is equally valid, at least! Many of "these people" (as we like to say, and often must) are -- shall we say -- pathetically under-developed human beings. They are often not open to hearing any other point of view other than their sad, pathetic, misinformed one.... and so on. So, yeah, I hear ya.

 

[FallenAngelina]

What I'm saying is that we are now in a Clap For Tinkerbell world & it's infecting even sites such as this.

I'm curious what kind of site this is and what "clap for Tinkerbell" means in your context. I imagine you're saying that any kind of "faith" is ignorance, cowardice and small mindedness, which would be surprising to find on a forum filled with people who are presumably open minded about sexuality. But please clarify. I don't see the connection. Like River, I live in a world where black and white don't exist, so I'm not really following the "morons" vs. "thinkers" argument, but I'm curious about what kind of people you expect to find on a "site such as this."

 

[Spork]

I think he means with the "Clap for Tinkerbell" stuff, basically the notion where folks feel we're making a difference by just sitting behind our keyboards being the change we want to see in the world. Like, you're doing something (clapping) that is supposed to be having a good effect, at least you IMAGINE that it is (for a fairy to live) only it is actually a pointless silly waste of time because fairies aren't real and no one cares.

We get this whole feeling of self-importance by going on at the mouth about how reasonable and rational we are...but it's not actually doing anything.

And if that interpretation is anywhere near the mark (I'm legit not sure, sometimes I have some difficulty grokking quite where Ravenscroft is coming from) then yeah, I feel that. Because when I affixed the safety pin to my purse I was thinking, "What the hell is the point of this? Trump is still going to be the next damn President. And it's not like I'm going out blocking highways, marching in the streets, really doing basically anything to make much of a difference at all."

But the reason I did it anyways, and the reason I won't shut up even if my opinions don't bring Tink back to life, is simple. It's because in the days after the election results became known, I felt like I couldn't trust anybody anymore. I was scared of "them" and I was afraid that I was surrounded by "them." I know that a lot of people of color, and LGBT+ folks, and other women, feel the same way and look around wondering who it was who cast a vote that said, "only white guys are people deserving rights. The rest of you need to get back in your place." I want to remind anyone who feels even SLIGHTLY like they can't trust people anymore, that lots and LOTS of us are not "them." So I'm not big and tough enough to fight off an army of skinheads on the bus. But if all I can offer, as a "safe" person is a little solidarity, a clasped hand, a little bitty smidge of faith in humanity, a voice that says, "Please don't give up. You matter to me. We'll see the other side of this, together, as Americans." Well, if that is clapping for Tinkerbell, I'm willing to clap. It's better than nothing.

 

[vinsanity0]

And this is really personal for me. My ex husband voted for him. What I said prior to this paragraph, I have said to him. His jaw literally hung open and he, in tones of offense and desperation, repeated to me that he "needed" Hillary to go to jail, for letting our men die in Benghazi. She does not care about soldiers. I informed him that he, as a soldier, or simply as a man so blinded by his own ego, does not care about anyone but his own paper doll. And he, too, can fuck off.

He and his friends can sit in that disgusting garage and talk about how liberals are special snowflakes, when they can't even manage their own emotions because the women in their lives have all left them. Sitting there self destructing in their own little "safe space" because they can't come out and deal with the world. Don't you talk to me about entitlement. I work for a living. And I'm brainwashed by the "liberal media" when I quote actual words out of an actual man's actual mouth??

Brainwashed idiots. Benghazi was not Hillary's fault. I had this debate with a guy the other day. The debate ended when I explained to him that the Sec of State does not control the military. He looked at me and asked, "Then why does everyone say it was her fault?"

My answer was because they didn't care about facts. They just wanted Hillary to lose.

So I got through to one of them. Perhaps he was already a little separated from the hive. Never before have I seen such a tightening of the hive though.

 

[vinsanity0]

You're in Florida? 'Nuff said.

Yeah, those damn New Yorkers and New Englanders keep coming down here...lol

 

[kdt26417]

Florida seems to be the most swing of the swing states ...

 

[Ravenscroft]

But you can't reason with this. I've crossed the bridge and I'm about to burn it behind me, hunker down, and hope they don't build boats.

That kinda sums it up.

What I mean by "Clap For Tinkerbell" is not at all restricted to just the people who hoped for Bernie & hoped for Hillary -- not at all. See, back early in the Bush Lite era, I tried to get the attention of the preening Wingnuts on a lefty discussion site, pointing out that they were NOT "Republican" in the same way that (say) "Hot Tub Tom" DeLay was a Republican. "You think your vote bought you a seat on the bus. But if you ever need any actual support from 'your' party, they'll tell you all the seats are booked, & you're SOL." They didn't comprehend, which was unsurprising.

And that's not to pick the easy target. Look at all the people who "supported"... well, anyone. Talk to your friends, look around you --how many of those "supporters" actually worked a phone bank, or went door-knocking, or (to be crass) donated at least $1,000, or even attended a rally?

Not one in a hundred so much as put up a lawn sign.

Yet 99.9% will claim to have "supported MY candidate" plenty... by thinking good thoughts.

Here's some handy "Clap For Tinkerbell" for the Google-impaired:

Clap If You Believe in the Tinkerbell Effect (Gizmodo) --

...get their name from the scene in the stage play of Peter Pan during which Tinkerbell is dying and the audience is told to clap if they believe in fairies. Perhaps there has been an audience that failed to clap (and I would love to know if the actors prepare for such a thing), but generally they clap, and Tinkerbell springs back to life.

The Tinkerbell Effect works in a lot of different experimental situations. People believe that they can, with the push of a button, make a random flashing of lights into a coherent pattern, even though the button does nothing. In one case, a group of people were put in a room and told to concentrate on making the lights on a circular display move counterclockwise. They thought they did. What they didn't know is that they were in the same room as a group of people who were told to make the lights move clockwise and also thought they did.

One study ... told people to estimate the speed of gray dots moving across a black background. The dots were on a screen - a split screen. The other side of the screen had another field of gray dots, which the person doing the estimating controls. With the push of a button, they can speed up the pattern, or slow it down, until it matches the dots on the other side of the screen.

Forty percent of the time, the dots on the other side of the screen weren't moving. Twelve out of the fifteen volunteers still felt they were able to "match" the speed in all cases. One of the remaining three couldn't see the dots move, whether they were moving or not.

Clap Your Hands If You Believe (TV Tropes) --

Also known as the "Tinkerbell effect," which is itself a subcategory of what is known as "magical thinking," a belief in cause-and-effect relationships between uncorrelated events based on coincidences.

This trope isn't a Magic Feather where "confidence" merely allows one to use one's own abilities to the fullest -- this physically changes the Universe.

When turned up to a global or universal scale, this can result in a "consensus reality" — a world completely created by what people think rather than its own Ontological Inertia.

For those who don't even need to clap, see Reality Warper. A Tulpa is a creature that derives its existence from this force. Compare with Willing Suspension of Disbelief. See also All Myths Are True, Psychoactive Powers, Puff of Logic, & The Treachery of Images.

The problem with attempting to calmly, reasonably point out any smallest detail in the huge pile of Wingnut fallacy? Well, any skeptic invited to a seance knows how THAT plays out -- "The spirits cannot manifest in the presence of an unbeliever!!" And there's no coming back from THAT, no chance of consciously accepting a brain-washing.

This creates a vicious cycle for non-believers, as magical events are "disproven" in their presence because they don't believe in the first place, thus cementing their disbelief.

See? If Right Wingnut policies fail to work as promised, it's because there wasn't enough clapping! When Bush Lite's massive tax cuts for businesses & wealthy people didn't result in MORE tax revenues -- yes, that's how it was marketed -- George then stepped up & said, "well, that's because we need to cut MORE," & he was being as sincere as he knew how. The GOP ran the White House, both sides of Congress, most states, a majority of SCOTUS... yet somehow they couldn't make anything work because of those Liberal unbelievers harshing the vibe with their negative thought-waves.

Back then, too, George liked to proclaim, "I have a mandate!!" which I really did suspect was because Jeff "Bulldog" Gannon (the "rough trade" prostitute) was visiting again. The problem with taking the word at face were legion: he'd lost the popular vote to Gore, polls indicated he was even less popular among nonvoters, he was ineffectual at getting the GOP pointed in one direction. Wingnuts quack about Obama's low approval numbers, which at 46% don't threaten Teflon Bill's 55%... but certainly kick ass against Junior's measly 30% (rebounding from 22%, a record-setter even against Nixon's 24% crater). His staff finally stopped writing "mandate" on the teleprompter.

Two weeks ago, Trumps said he has a mandate. That's when I accepted that it ain't gonna be pretty.

This time around, though, they get to carry loaded weapons. And not only don'tthe Wingnuts feel they have any need to be reasonable; that would (to them) demonstrate weakness, & like weak people through eternity, this emboldens them to violence.

Call me a cynic, but being righteous, calm, positive, well-spoken, organized... all necessary, & truly underutilized, for sure. But not enough to save anyone.

"Psychotics build castles in the air. Schizophrenics live in them." Spork, there might be some remaining grains of goodness & sanity in your ex, but do you really believe he'd feel remorse for beating someone to death who happened to clash with his imaginary world?

Anyone else seen the "Le Petite Tourette" episode of South Park? Cartman soon realizes that there are consequences for learning how to defeat the little day-to-day disciplines we all have. I believe that the world is now a grim parody of Cartman's problem, increasing hourly: there is no longer an upside to self-control. Racism, sexism, homophobia, antiintellectualism, generalized xenophobia...

 

[Ravenscroft]

Soon enough, it will be necessary to begin rounding up enemies of the Homeland who are undermining all that is Good & Right. At the very least, force them from their jobs, chase them out of places where The Good People live. If a few of 'em get beat up along the way for resisting citizen's arrest, & one or two wind up dead, that's what they should EXPECT for not cooperating, right?

We did it to the Germans in 1917. Probablities are high that you knew NONE of this; being German/Dutch, it's part of family history:

The Red Cross barred individuals with German last names from joining in fear of sabotage.

In Chicago, Frederick Stock was forced to step down as conductor of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra until he finalized his naturalization papers. Orchestras replaced music by German composer Wagner with French composer Berlioz.

Many schools stopped teaching German-language classes. ... Books published in German were removed from libraries or even burned. In Cincinnati, the public library was asked to withdraw all German books from its shelves. In Iowa, in the 1918 Babel Proclamation, the governor prohibited all foreign languages in schools and public places. Nebraska banned instruction in any language except English...

Sauerkraut came to be called "liberty cabbage", German measles became "liberty measles", hamburgers became "liberty sandwiches" and dachshunds became "liberty pups".

"Wow, they sure were stupid back then, huh? Good thing we'resmarter now!!" Remember freedom fries...?

Both the United States & Canada rounded up citizens who happened to be of Japanese ancestry.

Many internees lost irreplaceable personal property due to restrictions that prohibited them from taking more than they could carry into the camps. These losses were compounded by theft and destruction of items placed in governmental storage.

Leading up to their incarceration, Nikkei were prohibited from leaving the Military Zones or traveling more than 5 miles (8.0 km) from home, forcing those who had to travel for work, like truck farmers and residents of rural towns, to quit their jobs. Many others were simply fired for their "Jap" heritage.

Alien land laws in the West Coast states barred the Issei from owning their pre-war homes and farms. Many had cultivated land for decades as tenant farmers, but they lost their rights to farm those lands when they were forced to leave. Other Issei (and Nisei who were renting or had not completed payments on their property) had found families willing to occupy their homes or tend their farms during their incarceration. However, those unable to strike a deal with caretakers had to sell their property, often in a matter of days and at great financial loss to predatory land speculators, who made huge profits.

Japanese Americans also encountered hostility and even violence when they returned to the West Coast. Concentrated largely in rural areas of Central California, there were dozens of reports of gun shots, fires, and explosions aimed at Japanese American homes, businesses and places of worship, in addition to non-violent crimes like vandalism and the defacing of Japanese graves. In one of the only cases to go to trial, four men were accused of attacking the Doi family of Placer County, California, setting off an explosion and starting a fire on the family's farm in January 1945. Despite a confession from one of the men that implicated the others, the jury accepted their defense attorney's framing of the attack as a justifiable attempt to keep California "a white man's country" and acquitted all four defendants.

To compensate former internees for their property losses, the US Congress, on July 2, 1948, passed the "American Japanese Claims Act" ... By the time the Act was passed, the IRS had already destroyed most of the internees' 1939–42 tax records. Due to the time pressure and strict limits on how much they could take to the camps, few were able to preserve detailed tax and financial records during the evacuation process. Therefore, it was extremely difficult for claimants to establish that their claims were valid.

Good thing Facebook & Twitter are there, so the Enemy Of The Day can be taken down much more efficiently than the Old Days.

We've slid from neurosis through psychosis, & now are (like that sad old joke) moving as a society into Schizo Estates. A major cause of it is overprescription of drugs, particularly in cases that would easily have been managed by talk-therapy, but shrinks don't have a massive trillion-dollar lobby as does Big Pharma. As cited in the W'pedia article on schizoaffectrive disorder:

... some persons with a family history of even the subtler forms of bipolar disorder or psychosis are more vulnerable than others to the mania- or psychosis-inducing potential of antidepressants, stimulants and sleeping medications.

I believe [clinicians] should ask patients and their families whether there is a family history of bipolar disorder or psychosis before prescribing these medications. Most patients and their families don't know the answer when they are first asked, so time should be allowed for the patient to ask family or relatives, between the session when asked by [the clinician] and a follow-up session. This may increase the wait for a medication slightly, but because some patients are vulnerable, this is a necessary step for [the clinician] to take.

I believe that psychiatry as a field has not emphasized this point sufficiently. As a result, some patients have been harmed by the very treatments that were supposed to help them

The bipolar type is distinguished by symptoms of mania, hypomania, or mixed episode; the depressive type by symptoms of depression only. Common symptoms of the disorder include hallucinations, paranoid delusions, and disorganized speech and thinking.

A lack of responsiveness or negative symptoms include alogia (lack of spontaneous speech), blunted affect (reduced intensity of outward emotional expression), avolition (loss of motivation), and anhedonia (inability to experience pleasure).

Symptoms of mania include elevated or irritable mood, grandiosity (inflated self-esteem), agitation, risk-taking behavior, decreased need for sleep, poor concentration, rapid speech, and racing thoughts.

About 30 to 50 percent of people with schizophrenia fail to accept that they have an illness or comply with their recommended treatment.

Unless there's some sort of massive sobering-up, then I feel it's reasonable to say that the inmates (verifiable) have achieved control of the asylum. I am TOTALLY open to having ANYONE demonstrate otherwise.